Seventh Astral Era or Eighth Astral Era?

Hi everyone! I'm writing this thread to figure out which Astral Era will we be adventuring in in FFXIV: ARR. I know sometimes websites can contain incorrect information and the website I got it from is also from a wikia. According to finalfantasywika.com, they have it written that the people of Eorzea believe in the cycle where periods of abundance are followed by periods of catastrophe. - http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Seventh_Umbral_Era

In Yoshi-P's 40th letter he writes that...

"2012 will be remembered as the year the Seventh Umbral Era storyline drew to a close, and the curtains came down on the original version of the game. But every end marks a new beginning, and 2013 will see Eorzea begin a new chapter with the arrival of the Seventh Astral Era. As we’ve been doing so far, we will keep pouring our hearts and minds into the game and see it safely to rebirth."

After reading the letter got me to thinking about the era we were in before the day Dalamud decided to say "F U" to our face and P-M-S'd all over Eorzea. So, on finalfantasywikia it said that the last umbral era, which I'm assuming was the Sixth Umbral Era, happened 1, 500 years ago. With that in mind, I started posing a few questions...

1. How long does a said "era" last?

2. If we were to take the updates since 1.19 when the first events and changes of Dalamud started within the game to be the equivalent to a few years then that would solve the elapse of time issue, however, if it doesn't then with the release of the ARR trailer, how many years has it been since the day Dalamud exploded in the sky? That being said what year/"point in time" is it now in Eorzea in the AAR trailer?

3. With questions 1 & 2 in mind and the research founded about the umbral and astral eras, my final question is what era are we in now?

So with all of this information in mind I started thinking about the lore of FFXIV and came up with a few theories and thoughts...

1. During the event of Dalamud, it has been proposed by many FFXIV players that Louisoix send the chosen adventures to a moment forward in time, though clearly it isn't known how far/much or if they were went back in time at all. It could have been a "when" in time.

2. Given the amount of time that finalfantasywikia said about how long ago the last umbral era had loomed over Eorzea, the Seven Umbral Era could not have been that short nor could it have taken Dalamud 1000 years to reach it's humongous size during FFXIV 1.0.

3. If it is true according to finalfantasywikia that it is believe a period of abundance is followed by a period of scarcity then the time that ARR is taking place has to be years since the events of Dalamud, now how long that period would have been is unknown, but by the looks of the new ARR trailer it couldn't have been more than 100 years because Thancred a Hyur hasn't aged at all. And since he hasn't aged at all then could the idea of an alternate timeline be true? And furthermore, if what finalfantasywikia said about the sequence of Umbral and Astral eras are true, then we technically should be in the Eighth Astra Era, however, Yoshi-P said that we would be in the Seventh Astral Era when we play ARR which if that is true then it would mean that the information on finalfantasywikia is false. So which is true?

So that's my thoughts about FFXIV's lore so far. I realize that this is a virtual game and I know that ppl would say that "it's just a game" etc., etc., but even if it's just a game it's also a story. And yes it would be a fictional story, but regardless of what kind of story it is, it is always good to have context of the story to be correct thus in essence the "facts" of the story. So with that, what I would like to know is which era are we in now? Which statement is true?

its the 7th astral era we were living in the 7th umbral era

We were living in the 7th Astral era. The events that transpired lead into the 7th Umbral.

Also there are 5 years between the end of 1.x and the start of 2.0.

An Era is defined by its events, not a rigid time-scale.

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Originally Posted by Junpei

We were living in the 7th Astral era. The events that transpired lead into the 7th Umbral.

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Incorrect.

We were living in the sixth astral era, which held an affinity with Water following the great flood of the sixth umbral era.

Umbral eras precede their astral counterparts.

ARR will either be a continuation of the seventh umbral era or the subsequent seventh astral era. Either way, it is not the eighth of anything.

I'll see if I can hunt down Fernehalwes' post about the eras for you.

Ah my mistake good sir!

I had them the other way :)

So it turns out it wasn't Fernehalwes, but Sasunaich from the German side of the forums. I translated that post myself back when it was made. I'll copy it for you here.

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Originally Posted by Sasunaich

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Originally Posted by xXGhostXx

Die sprechen ja dir ganze zeit von der 7. Katastrophe was ist denn mit den ersten 6 :) konnte da jemand in der story, quests was rauslesen wurde mal was davon erwähnt ?
They're always talking about the 7th Catastrophe (read: Umbral Era - I'll use this term henceforth since it's commonly used for the same description in English as "Catastrophe" is in German.), but what is with the first six? :) Could anyone read anything out of the story/quests? Was anything about them mentioned?

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Ich habe mich wissensdurstig an das "World Environment Design"-Team gewandt und eine recht ausführliche Antwort auf deine Frage erhalten:
Thirsty for knowledge, I turned to the "World Environment Design" team and obtained a rather comprehensive answer:

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Vielen Dank für eure Fragen.
Thank you for your questions.

Was ist in den vorherigen Katastrophen passiert ?
Je länger diese Katastrophen zurückliegen, desto weniger Hinweise haben wir, die uns verraten könnten, was genau passiert ist. Diejenigen, die jetzt in Eorzea leben, können nur darüber spekulieren und sich ein Bild von der Vergangenheit basierend auf Mythen und Lore machen.
Aber da die noch recht junge 6. Katastrophe (die allerdings auch schon rund 1.500 Jahre her ist) ein äußerst bedeutendes historisches Ereignis war, gibt es darüber noch immer viele Aufzeichnungen, die uns nachvollziehen lassen, was damals passiert ist.
What happened in the earlier Umbral Eras?
The further back in history the era is, the less clues we have that can tell us as to what exactly happened. Those who live in Eorzea now can only speculate and construct a picture of the past based on myths and lore.
But because the still rather recent 6th Umbral Era (although it was already about 1,500 years ago) was such a highly significant event in history, there are still many records on the topic that allow us to reconstruct what happened.

Theologen und Historiker haben viele Quellen studiert und daraus abgeleitet, was in der ersten bis sechsten Katastrophe vorgefallen ist.
1. Die Windkatastrophe. Dies war das Ende der göttlichen und gleichzeitig der Beginn der menschlichen Ära.
2. Die Blitz-Katastrophe
3. Die Feuer-Katastrophe
4. Die Erd-Katastrophe
5. Die Eis-Katastrophe
6. Die Wasser-Katastrophe. Aufgrund einer starken Überflutung wurden viele Teile Eorzeas überschwämmt und beschädigt.
Theologists and Historians have studied many sources and from them concluded what struck in the first through sixth Umbral eras.
1. The Umbral Era of Wind. This was the end of the divine's era and simultaneously the beginning of men's era. (NB: German uses the term "Menschen" to describe humankind without any connotations of gender or race - so this does not mean specifically an era of Hyur. The closest comparable term in English for the mythological context in "men" although "humanity" would be more accurate. I suspect the English localisation team would choose to phrase it differently.)
2. The Umbral Era of Lightning.
3. The Umbral Era of Fire.
4. The Umbral Era of Earth.
5. The Umbral Era of Ice.
6. The Umbral Era of Water. Severe flooding caused the submersion and damage of many parts of Eorzea.

Da alle sechs Katastrophen auf den sechs Elementen basieren, haben die Menschen geglaubt, dass es keine weitere geben wird. Aufgrund der Entdeckung der 7. Prophezeiung Mezayas fangen sie nun jedoch an, an eine bevorstehende 7. Katastrophe zu glauben.
Because all six Umbral eras are based on the six elements, the people have believed that there will be no more. But since the discovery of the 7th Verse of Mezaya's prophesy, they are instead beginning to believe in an impending 7th Umbral Era.

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Now that is what we knew about the cycle of eras prior to much development on the Dalamud-plotline.

Since then, we have also learnt that it was Bahamut's desire to put an end to the cycle of astral and umbral eras. As to whether or not he has suceeded... there may be more plot in ARR to that extent.

Edit: It is also worth noting that the Allagan Empire is understood to have fallen during the fourth umbral era (earth) and that the miqo'te arrived in Aldenard during the ice age that was the fifth umbral era (ice). A few other civilisations have also fallen in Eorzea's history, including Gelmorra, though we do not yet seem to have been able to put a specific era/date on this.
The fall of Sil'dih is measured as centuries ago rather than millenia or eras, so it is unconnected to an umbral era.

Edit edit: It is probably worth underscoring how the term umbral era is a bit misleading. The German translation, as I mentioned above, uses the term "catastrophe" to better articulate what is going on.
Ergo, umbral eras last as long as their catastrophic impacts are being felt, making them typically measurable in years, and astral eras last however long it takes for the next significant world-altering catastrophe to come along, which can be a long time. In the case of the sixth Astral, approx 1573 years.

Edit edit edit: While I cannot recall the source, my understanding is that five years have lapsed between the release of Bahamut from Dalamud and our return to a realm reborn.

Thanks for giving us the translated post from the German forum. With that information, we can conclude that we were living during an Astral Era period before the 1.19 update which would mark the beginning and period of the umbral era. If we take into account about the length of an era to be true, then technically speaking we would have been adventuring during the Sixth Astral Era, which led to the events of Dalamud as the Seventh Umbral Era, followed by what would be the Seventh Astral Era for FFXIV: ARR. Thus we can map out the following time Umbral/Astral Era sequences of Eorzea where Umbral is followed by Astral = Umbral > Astral = U/A...

The Divine Era - Light?: Time of the gods and goddesses
The First Umbral/Astral Era - Wind: The end of the Divine Era and beginning of "humanity"
The Second U/A Era - Lightning
The Third U/A Era - Fire
The Fourth U/A Era - Earth: The destruction of the Allagan Civilization/Empire
The Fifth U/A Era - Ice
The Sixth U/A Era - Water: The great flood that damaged and submerged the land of Eorzea
The Seventh U/A Era - Darkness?: The day Dalamud exploded and Primal Bahamut was released back into the world

Now... If this sequence is correct then we can say that we are living in the Seventh Umbral Era. However, it's odd that the Eras would be in a U/A sequence but the months are in a A/U (Astral > Umbral) sequence. Furthermore, there is still the trailer to be speculated about. If we are living during the Seventh Astral Era, then what has happened to Bahamut and why hasn't Eorzea been destroyed and become a big pile of rubble? Also why is it that Thancred is shown to be in the same place he was during the time Bahamut was soaring through the skies? How religious is this promiscuous bard since the events of Dalamud or if he is at all? What are the details of the time skip/warp spell that Louisoix cast on the fellow chosen adventures and possibly on all the other main characters?

Tis not darkness because bahamut does not have a element hes like a hybrid of everything but he sure does like fire :3

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Originally Posted by Mazora_Espeon

Thanks for giving us the translated post from the German forum. With that information, we can conclude that we were living during an Astral Era period before the 1.19 update which would mark the beginning and period of the umbral era. If we take into account about the length of an era to be true, then technically speaking we would have been adventuring during the Sixth Astral Era, which led to the events of Dalamud as the Seventh Umbral Era, followed by what would be the Seventh Astral Era for FFXIV: ARR. Thus we can map out the following time Umbral/Astral Era sequences of Eorzea where Umbral is followed by Astral = Umbral > Astral = U/A...

The Divine Era - Light?: Time of the gods and goddesses
The First Umbral/Astral Era - Wind: The end of the Divine Era and beginning of "humanity"
The Second U/A Era - Lightning
The Third U/A Era - Fire
The Fourth U/A Era - Earth: The destruction of the Allagan Civilization/Empire
The Fifth U/A Era - Ice
The Sixth U/A Era - Water: The great flood that damaged and submerged the land of Eorzea
The Seventh U/A Era - Darkness?: The day Dalamud exploded and Primal Bahamut was released back into the world

Now... If this sequence is correct then we can say that we are living in the Seventh Umbral Era. However, it's odd that the Eras would be in a U/A sequence but the months are in a A/U (Astral > Umbral) sequence. Furthermore, there is still the trailer to be speculated about. If we are living during the Seventh Astral Era, then what has happened to Bahamut and why hasn't Eorzea been destroyed and become a big pile of rubble? Also why is it that Thancred is shown to be in the same place he was during the time Bahamut was soaring through the skies? How religious is this promiscuous bard since the events of Dalamud or if he is at all? What are the details of the time skip/warp spell that Louisoix cast on the fellow chosen adventures and possibly on all the other main characters?

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There are actually some questions on the cycle of the elements and alternation of the polarities that remain unanswered. Anonymoose made this thread in the localisation forum when he was wondering why things aren't adding up on this front. You may enjoy having a read through it.

technically its megaflare... which if other FF titles dictate is non-elemental.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Edit edit: It is probably worth underscoring how the term umbral era is a bit misleading. The German translation, as I mentioned above, uses the term "catastrophe" to better articulate what is going on.
Ergo, umbral eras last as long as their catastrophic impacts are being felt, making them typically measurable in years, and astral eras last however long it takes for the next significant world-altering catastrophe to come along, which can be a long time. In the case of the sixth Astral, approx 1573 years.

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This is interesting. In theory you could meausre exactly when the 7th Umbral Era started which would be the moment Bahamut got free from Dalamud but it must be much harder to determine when the effects of that are no longer being felt. Theoretically AAR could therefore take place in the Astral era. Has it been confirmed that we are still in the Umbral era when AAR starts?

Is the concept of Astral and Umbral eras used by the empire as well? We don't know how hard they were hit by Bahamut, if at all so in theory they could then be in a different era if they were not affected.

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Originally Posted by Mazora_Espeon

Thanks for giving us the translated post from the German forum. With that information, we can conclude that we were living during an Astral Era period before the 1.19 update which would mark the beginning and period of the umbral era. If we take into account about the length of an era to be true, then technically speaking we would have been adventuring during the Sixth Astral Era, which led to the events of Dalamud as the Seventh Umbral Era, followed by what would be the Seventh Astral Era for FFXIV: ARR. Thus we can map out the following time Umbral/Astral Era sequences of Eorzea where Umbral is followed by Astral = Umbral > Astral = U/A...

The Divine Era - Light?: Time of the gods and goddesses
The First Umbral/Astral Era - Wind: The end of the Divine Era and beginning of "humanity"
The Second U/A Era - Lightning
The Third U/A Era - Fire
The Fourth U/A Era - Earth: The destruction of the Allagan Civilization/Empire
The Fifth U/A Era - Ice
The Sixth U/A Era - Water: The great flood that damaged and submerged the land of Eorzea
The Seventh U/A Era - Darkness?: The day Dalamud exploded and Primal Bahamut was released back into the world

Now... If this sequence is correct then we can say that we are living in the Seventh Umbral Era. However, it's odd that the Eras would be in a U/A sequence but the months are in a A/U (Astral > Umbral) sequence. Furthermore, there is still the trailer to be speculated about. If we are living during the Seventh Astral Era, then what has happened to Bahamut and why hasn't Eorzea been destroyed and become a big pile of rubble? Also why is it that Thancred is shown to be in the same place he was during the time Bahamut was soaring through the skies? How religious is this promiscuous bard since the events of Dalamud or if he is at all? What are the details of the time skip/warp spell that Louisoix cast on the fellow chosen adventures and possibly on all the other main characters?

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Reading through that, if we ever get an expansion like WotG, the 2 possible times they could allow us to go would be the Divine Era (possible story line about the 12) or the fourth era (Allagan empire and wtf the were doing with putting bahamut into a giant flaming egg)

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Originally Posted by Cynthis

This is interesting. In theory you could meausre exactly when the 7th Umbral Era started which would be the moment Bahamut got free from Dalamud but it must be much harder to determine when the effects of that are no longer being felt. Theoretically AAR could therefore take place in the Astral era. Has it been confirmed that we are still in the Umbral era when AAR starts?

Is the concept of Astral and Umbral eras used by the empire as well? We don't know how hard they were hit by Bahamut, if at all so in theory they could then be in a different era if they were not affected.

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You have just asked the questions to which we do not yet have answers. v_v

Front page of Lodestone says:

"New Year's Greetings (01/01/2013)

~Skip to last part~

Now then, 2013—the year of rebirth—has arrived. But just when we thought that the cataclysm that ushered in the Seventh Umbral Era is behind us, it would seem a prophetic passage, penned by a man we all know and respect, has been discovered. And the message it bears rings ominously indeed..."

Well, what Yoshi-P said there pretty much sums up how I interpreted the whole Astral/Umbral sequence - that the world is still in the 7th Umbral Era even five years after Dalamud's fall - although the videos and images show a world on the mend, it's clear the scars of the disaster still run deep, and that the world is still very much sliding into a long, slow, languorous decline.

Not to mention all the official information for 2.0 on the main website continuously refer to the game as still being in the 7th Umbral Era which makes it even more clearer in that regard. After all, if the world really is now in the 7th Astral era, wouldn't it have been mentioned as such?

I would really enjoy a future expansion, or set of patches, in that case where we had to complete a number of quests with the purpose of ushering in the next Astral era. That seems like a very worthwhile goal to pursue over a period of time with a nice payoff at the end.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Well, what Yoshi-P said there pretty much sums up how I interpreted the whole Astral/Umbral sequence - that the world is still in the 7th Umbral Era even five years after Dalamud's fall - although the videos and images show a world on the mend, it's clear the scars of the disaster still run deep, and that the world is still very much sliding into a long, slow, languorous decline.

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Seems Eorzea's Astral and Umbral eras work very much like a country in recession. Regardless of how big something is, if it's in decline then it is Umbral. Regardless of how small something is, if it's growing then it's in Astral.
Although for this to make sense the assumption that the realm is still dying even if the cities are rebuilding (guess the huge aether consumption could play into this, too).

I've cant wait for the actual Opening of the game. Hope beta give's us the final opening.

I always assumed some of the main storys of ARR would be to return the world to the seventh astral era and we would be in the 7th umbral era that was brought about by the cataclysm that was Bahamut.

So, we still sem to be about 1/2 and 1/2 on which era was previously, and which era it is now... >_<

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Originally Posted by Renen

So, we still sem to be about 1/2 and 1/2 on which era was previously, and which era it is now... >_<

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The story that was introduced with the Grand Companies when Yoshi-P took over was the start of the 7th Umbral Era. The climax of this era was when Bahamut broke free and went on the war path.

As it was mentioned in the original post, Yoshi-P mentioned the ushering in of the Seventh Astral Era would take place during ARR. The Umbral Eras seem to be a short, catastrophic period whereas the Astral Eras seem to last for as long as a millennium. As shown in the quick trailer after the End of an Era trailer, the world seems to be on the mend, however there are still threats towards the peoples of Eorzea that are lingering. Nothing quite on the scale of Bahamut bursting out of Dalamud and the scale of destruction he spread though.