Lets think about the class system/Amoury system...

.... for the future of 2.0 can we really say we all think the armory system is a wise move.

They should just get have a base class for every Job, that basically evolves to that Job. Have story & lore focus around it and separate quest.

Just get rid of the Armory System we have now, as it's just gonna look silly a few years from now and difficult to create new Jobs from this formula, we each class only able to wield 1 weapon.

Bring back an evolved version of the weapon system in FFXI class are each able to equip a 1-3 different weapons, Warrior being able to hold most all of them with a grade system of which weapon is the strongest in the hand of each Class/Job.

Equipping any of the allowed weapons(correlating to each class/Job) still allows the user to equip the classes Soul Stone.

Now the fun part. Each Job has its own evolving class storyline/lore that leads up to the user unlocking the Job. Some Jobs down the line will need multiple Jobs to be a certain level to be able to have them unlock.

Starts as Becomes
Squire ---------------> Paladin
Animist --------> Beast Master
Gladiator ------------ >Warrior
Lancer --------------->Dragoon
Sage ----------------->White Mage
Fencer --------------> Red Mage (eg.also having Black and White Mage at lvl 35)
Kendo --------------->Samurai
Pugilist --------------->Monk
Archer --------------->Ranger
Muse ---------------->Bard
Assassin ------------->Ninja
Archanist ------------>Summoner
Elementalist --------->Black Mage
Soldier -------------->Dark Knight
Pilferer -------------->Thief
Musketeer----------->Corsair/Pirate/Chemist

Yoshi & team need to make adjustments now while they still can. (Forgive me if you are already doing this). And feel free to call classes whatever you deem.

You all are doing good stuff for this game regardless. Just throwing my 2cents in and hoping a change similar to this will happen.

I always felt that jobs should be treated as advanced classes. For example: Thaumaturger can be changed so that there is no reason to want to use it once you unlock Black Mage. Black Mage should be able to use all spells that THM can use and be able to equip all weapons/armor that THM can since it's essentially the next level of Thaumaturgy....which is why the class exclusive stuff makes no damn sense to me.

Idk, but as it stands, I feel that classes are an afterthought and yes, I agree that it will only make things confusing down the road to keep the system the way it is.

The OP has some good ideas, but I don't think we will see any changes.

Keep in mind that the current Japanese names for each class are directly tied to the Armory system and are named specifically after what weapon/tool is used:

Marauder = 斧術士 (Axe Master)
Lancer = 槍術士 (Spear Master)
etc.

And since the Armory system is here to stay, we won't see multiple types of weapons for each class (at least not radically different)

However, the relic system shows us that jobs can have different weapons than their respective classes (they auto-equip the job soul needed ;) ).

So DRK could be another job for MRD but have access to Greatswords or Scythes where MRD (and WAR) wouldn't*

*just an example.. I don't want to start an argument over what class DRK should come from.

I've posted in other class vs job threads before, and here's my suggestions:

1. Have classes and jobs truly branch off from each other post level 30. THM gets THM only skills at 30+ whereas BLM can use all the sub-30 THM skills plus all the new abilities it learns at 30+. If they really want classes to have some utility, they need to make it to where they bring something totally different to the table than their job counterpart.

2. Get rid of the job stones and make job specific weapons. This would enable multiple jobs to branch off from classes and what you play is dictated by the specific weapon you have equipped.

I don't really care for the class system, because possibly apart from PvP, I don't see them being very useful in many situations. I feel jobs can solo just as well, if not better, than classes in most cases, so that's really not working in their favor either.

I really think the armory system is silly, especially being able to switch classes anywhere. Your class becomes a meaningless choice.

1. People want you to swap to the job that is most effective for the situation, all the time; too bad if you want to play X, you're forced to play Y or be kicked. In FFXI I'm sure this happened too, but mid dungeon they're like "we're against coincounter? you can't play melee, swap to ranged now or we're kicking." This happened for many encounters. In other games such as FFXI it was like "I know that job you're playing isn't THE BEST for the situation, but I'm sure we'll get by." People also don't seem to understand that just because you have the class/job doesn't mean you want to play it and doesn't mean you are experienced/geared/skilled with it. I played WHM a lot and sometimes I was asked to go BLM and I said I probably wasn't going to be comfortable with it (lack of gear, didn't play it enough to feel safe on enmity, didn't want to take the risk) and people just didn't seem to understand why I wouldn't go BLM for them (and I was seen as rude).

2. It's not fun when you're like "oh check out my cool dragoon armor and lance" and the other guy goes "oh yeah" and just swaps to it too immediately. It ruins individuality, and gets rid of the ability to say "I AM A DRAGOON" (because technically you can be anything anytime). The class/job choice you make is meaningless, and you just don't have that good feeling about it.

3. A large portion of the reason everyone levels up every class/job is because it's so easy. Swap your weapon, gg good to go. It's difficult to feel accomplished saying like "I am a level 50 WHM" in your party. Not only does most of the party have that too, they'll be like "oh I can just switch to that." Sure, you can switch at your house or whatever in FFXI, but that was a LOT more effort to take for a lot of reasons (gotta have the gear which was harder to fully get, had to have the high level job which was harder, and had to spend a long time going back to who knows where to switch and come back). You were appreciated for playing that class, you had individuality, you felt good; in this game, who cares. If a party is 7/8 and just needs a WHM, instead of looking for that dedicated soul who actually is skilled and geared and loves the class, it's just "I'll just switch to WHM" *equip staff*.

In FFXIV 2.0, I'm gonna want to main Summoner. But, what bums me out, is that EVERYONE is going to be leveling it at launch, even though a lot of people have zero interest in it. They're just doing it "because they can." Yeah I know a lot of people want to see the lower level content and don't have any other classes to experience it, but still... what's going to set me apart from the people that are just "summonerlols" and me, a serious dedicated person to the job? It should feel like a strong dedication and others should be like "wow, you got that far with summoner/you have that much gear/SOMETHING" rather than just *swap weapon* "yup I'm as good as you now."

I'm finding it difficult to articulate my point, but I hope you understand.

There definitely needs to be bigger swings in the focus of jobs v. classes

This can be done in three easy ways:

Passive job traits that shift stats and HP/MP/TP: eg. When changing from GLA to PLD, a player loses 25% of their max TP and STR, but gains a 25% boost to max MP and VIT. Similarly, BLM could lose some casting speed and spell interruption resistance, but they would gain while Magic Accuracy and Magic attack Power increase over THM.

Exclusive class abilities: eg GLD gets the AoE Weaponskill 'Circle Blade' but PLD cannot use it. Likewise, 'Cleric Stance' could become restricted to only CNJ.

Classes get access to a wider range of gear than jobs - Restrict WHM and BLM from using shields, Give PGL the ability to wear haubergeons and other light armor, whereas MNK would be restricted to leather and cloth gear.

I think these ideas could help give classes a more distinct role in the game and push them in the opposite direction than their jobs.

One major element that people have overlooked, that was in early XI but not in XIV, is players identifying with a single job or class.

In the ye ol' early days of FFXI, you had one (MAYBE 2) Lv.75 jobs and it/they were your bread and butter. A lot of players couldn't afford the time/gil to get another job to 75. It took me 1 year to get my first job to 75. As a result, I perfected it. I became known as a Warrior.

That novelty of being known by your trade has disappeared. Everyone is everything as someone stated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Royze

One major element that people have overlooked, that was in early XI but not in XIV, is players identifying with a single job or class.

In the ye ol' early days of FFXI, you had one (MAYBE 2) Lv.75 jobs and it/they were your bread and butter. A lot of players couldn't afford the time/gil to get another job to 75. It took me 1 year to get my first job to 75. As a result, I perfected it. I became known as a Warrior.

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True.

Although, level isn't everything. FFXIV (at least 1.0) is more about upgrading gear to tackle bigger challenges.

I know many with the Paragon's Crown, but a much smaller percentage that actually are geared up or proficient enough to take on any challenge with any job. I think players people identify with one or two jobs and work primarily on those.

Plus, the game might take a much steeper level of difficulty when the cap is eventually raised, which will mean that it will take considerable time to get everything capped.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Royze

That novelty of being known by your trade has disappeared. Everyone is everything as someone stated.

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Again, lets hope this changes with the eventual cap increase... I also miss that about FFXI

My gripe: weapon locking. Options are nice, e.g. a greatsword for PLD or lance for SAM. Sadly I don't expect any major changes to the armory system.

/sadpanda

I like the armory system to be honest, but all of the concerns voiced are good ones. But I'd like to put in my two cents as to why I like it.
First, not everyone has the time to devote grinding a class all the way up to level 50, and being flexible is more valuable in this game than in others.
Now I know people keep harping on the fact that once you get your job you never switch back to your class, but seriously...why wouldn't you take advantage of the fact that you can cross class all across the board? While the overall total skill amount is the same in the end (as you get 5 unique exclusive skills for your job, but have access to 10 skills cross classed) someone who understands the other classes can be incredibly versatile and useful in any role, creating a unique archetype that doesn't quite fit the initial mold anymore. However most people are far too lazy to do this.
The limitation on the weapons is also handy in that it keeps your inventory simple and straight forward for each class, but don't forget that there are class specific weapons now as well, things that your jobs can not equip. Just like you have class specific gear.
Now for all of the people (like myself) that have reached 50 with all of the classes, we are usually skilled in a handfull of these classes, but work passably with the others. For instance, despite having all of my classes to 50, I'm only really skilled as a Paladin/Dragoon or White Mage (or the classes obviously). This means that each person really still has unique skill and isn't based on equipment because equipment doesn't matter if they can't play the class well.
I have never got the knack for managing hate with a black mage >.>.
Something to keep in mind is that the armory system is sort of a guide book for the class to job transition. I mainly like it because it's basically like a specialized class, limiting what you can do within a class and giving you new abilities.
Anyway, I'm sorry I got so long winded, but I hope you can see that there are benefits to it as well! ^_^.

i don't really mind the armoury/class & job system to be honest, i like changing classes and jobs on the fly. the only improvement/change i would like a to see is multiple weapons per class, thus each class having multiple jobs branching from them using a specific weapon for a specific role. What i see currently wrong now with this system is that either the class is redundant to use or the job. ie: war over mrd, pld over gla etc etc plus i see that this just leads to balancing issues along with the simple annoying answer ppl give is class= solo and job= party when that really isnt the case anymore. i just see too many problems down the road and in the long run with the 1:1 ratio with class then job instead of 1:2 ,1:3 etc etc ratio class then many jobs.

if i remember correctly someone asked (in the 3rd or 4th letter) or yoshi said something about classes eventually (possibly) later down the road having multiple jobs. Now to go along with that hopefully more jobs to each class means more weapons available to that class which to me personally seems pretty bad ass. a class that could use say 3 or 4 weapons altering its play style according to the weapon is pretty neat, plus with the armoury/ class & job system makes it easy to play whatever you see fit, if you desire to play a job or stay that class and use different weapons, seems to me their is more options and freedom for players to do as they want.

some have said all this before as i have now, but to see yoshi and the dev team thinking about it just puts me at ease knowing that their could be a possibly of this and its nice to see other ppl views on this also.

Having multiple weapons per class/job would be nice to have.

SE needs to seriously do something. Trying to explain to outsiders that you have to level X job to 30 and Y job to 15 just to play Z job, then u essentially level as Z job but it counts as X job. Although X job is pretty much pointless after 30. Everyone I've tired to explain this process to looks at me like I'm stupid. I truely think SE missed a huge chance to have new jobs instead of pretty much "required" upgrades of your current job. All in all its just confusing and a hard sell for new players. Even former XI'ers.

What worries me most about the class system is how things will turn out in a few years. SE has to create a class and a job for each new addition to the armory system.

One idea would be to allow each class to branch off with no penalty for the player. For example:

Thaumaturgy is the basis of offensive magic. At level 30, you unlock the quests that allow you to switch to a Black Mage, Time Mage, and Blue Mage. You can switch between the jobs via the UI on the fly. Each job uses the same weapon as the class - a staff and wands. Each job has their own exclusive own relic gear and relic weapon. This would work really well especially since we're getting that mannequin system in ARR.

These are just examples. Other examples would be:

Gladiator branches into Paladin, Dark Knight, Heavy Knight (high def, def buffs)
Arcanist branches into Summoner, Beastmaster, Puppetmaster
Archer into Bard, Dancer, Ranger
Conjurer into White Mage, Scholar?, Geomancer?
Pugilist into Monk, Boxer? lol, and Kung Fu Master, obviously.

Yeah, just examples, but you see where I'm going. Each job would play differently enough, but not too different where it becomes completely different from the class it starts off as. Classes should only serve as a starting point to familiarize players with the play style and aren't too focused, while the jobs are more advance and have tighter focus on play style.

The way things are going, it just seems like classes are there just to be there because they didn't want to make things too different for 2.0.

I just miss one thing , in particular, about XI. The way jobs where set up in XI it was so that the original classes could still function as extremely viable stand alone jobs. Sure, it's a bit prevalent now with the darnus / thm strats, but aside from that, you never really see gladiators or marauders in parties anymore. In Xi you could do pretty much all end game as any job and have a viable, and sensible role in the party. What's the point in playing gladiator at this point? Paladin trumps it, in every aspect, so it kinda makes it a useless class, though gladiator has tons of potential aside from being a stepping stone, kind of sucks. Dual wielding glads? Yes please.

Well we really don't want an exact copy of FFXI job system as that what makes FFXI, FFXI. For FFXIV I know Yoshi and the staff could create a long term functional job system that won't have issues down the road.

But the Job list from FFXI is welcomed and should be implemented. There is just some much confusion with the armory system and people putting together ways to create/ make new jobs. When dev team just needs to do something similar to what I posted at the top. Make some changes while you can Dev team. cause problems will comes as the years go by.

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Originally Posted by Myono_Mhigo

SE needs to seriously do something. Trying to explain to outsiders that you have to level X job to 30 and Y job to 15 just to play Z job, then u essentially level as Z job but it counts as X job. Although X job is pretty much pointless after 30. Everyone I've tired to explain this process to looks at me like I'm stupid. I truely think SE missed a huge chance to have new jobs instead of pretty much "required" upgrades of your current job. All in all its just confusing and a hard sell for new players. Even former XI'ers.

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I explain this to my friends and they get it. It's really not that complicated. Many games require multiple classes to be leveled up to acquire a new class or job. It's not a new concept.

I like the armory system the way it is now. And a lot of the issues previously mentioned seems like something SE would not overlook(multiple weapons for one class, more distinct job variation, i.e WAR, DRK from Marauder) because they are really obvious.

And to Kamikaze, I believe that's the idea that they are planning.

All endgame stuff requires a party and SE has said they wanted jobs to play a more important role in parties. Don't see how people haven't understood that yet.

Wow so many ideas in here are almost exactly the same as my own, Orophin, Stanleyyoung, and Kamikazeman, the only thing that I would like to see added on top of these 3 ideas is that the 3 paths for ie.

0000000Bard
000000/
Archer---Archer
000000\
0000000Hunter

Level up seperatley somehow, they could make it so you unlock the jobs at 30, and then the jobs start at 30 but level seperatley of each other, that way with a 3 path system, just cause I have a 50 Bard doesn't mean that if I unlocked Hunter it would be 50 aswell, it would be 30. Like orophin said, archer should get his own skills that are his alone post level 30, plus that way the jobs would get more identity from each other. Being that if you kept up the trend that you get a ability/trait every 2 levels, bard would have not only 5 moves but 5 traits aswell. Though i really like have class quests to get certain things. I also like the idea that Stanleyyoung said about each class being able to use multiple weapons, with some jobs getting a unique weapon choice exclusive to that job branch from the original path, but still being able to use the old weapons aswell ie. Samurai coming from lancer? could get the ability to use Katana.

If you wanted to take it one step further you could even rename the original class after 30 like the OP said, so

Archer---> Ranger after 30
or
Gladiator---> Knight (fft style moves, like break armor etc.) after 30

And lastly the only other thing that I thought of was to make the paths stand out even more would be to make it so the cross class skills that the jobs can choose from get enhanced abit. It's hard to explain but pretty much making it so that if your were say a Paladin with your subs being conjurer and maurader for cross class skills so making it so that paladin could get Cura as a cross class skill at say 10 levels higher then it would normally unlock for conjurer so at 40 paladin you could get cura as a cross class skill selection. Obviously not all skills would have this option, just select ones.

Alternatively, they could make some kind of smart system that recognised what crass class skills you equiped so that if a paladin equiped cure as a cross class skill, at a certain level of paladin the system would recognise that he had cure equiped and create the option for him to use cura aswell even though cura isnt cross class, the option would only appear if cure was already equiped, that way as the level cap rises, you could get more access to stronger abilities from your subs, and it would also make it so you would see different play styles of the class.

Just an idea anyhow, what do you guys think of something like that?

I've posted a solution to this insanity before and it's quite simple.

Treat the current classes like normal until they get to 30. At 30 you need to do the job quest to progress further. You cannot get exp until you finish the quest whereupon you get promoted to the Job. This extends leveling a little bit by adding a simple limit break quest and gets rid of the useless classes post 30. Nice and simple and works with the lore.

If you guys didn't read What Zant said:

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

The OP has some good ideas, but I don't think we will see any changes.

Keep in mind that the current Japanese names for each class are directly tied to the Armory system and are named specifically after what weapon/tool is used:

Marauder = 斧術士 (Axe Master)
Lancer = 槍術士 (Spear Master)
etc.

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So unless the Japanese names for the classes change to match what we get in our English I Don't see multiple weapons for each class.
For those that keep saying classes are useless Post 30, I beg to differ here. Classes vs. Jobs post 30 all depends on what you are doing and the Class itself. GLD to PLD is obviously a better choice as nothing is really lost for solo or party play. But then look at the magic Classes over the magic Jobs the classes are usually better for solo as you not limiting to a group of mobs weak to either wind or thunder or earth is you don't mind the recasts. Plus with BLM your only healing ability is Second Wind, not nearly enough in dire situations is Sleepga failed or was interrupted. But as this was all for 1.x, so how we utilize a class vs job will be different.
My only gripe atm from 1.x point of view is the 2 sub classes that some jobs had, mostly the magic classes here. WHM was gld and pgl while BLM was arc and pgl. WHM's subs where ok as gld has some decent abilities to make whm survive big attacks with sentinel. But blm's arc and pgl has access to only 6 abilities with 2 being silly on blm and another useless.
that's 3/5 abilities set if you did the math. I hope the reworked armory system removes pgl from blm subs and gives it cnj and the same for whm; pgl to thm.
Now to just wait and hope to get into the beta to actually see the changes the SE team will make. Even if I don't like particular changes to the classes or jobs, as long as the game plays well and I enjoy it, there is no reason I "have" to play on the classes I don't like.

Personally think they should change the Armory system. Rarely do I ever see anyone on classes. So other then being used as a sub requirement to obtain the jobs or perhaps solo some normal mobs. The system is pointless. I would like to see a redesigned system.

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Originally Posted by Rustyhagun

Starts as Becomes
Squire ---------------> Paladin
Animist --------> Beast Master
Gladiator ------------ >Warrior
Lancer --------------->Dragoon
Sage ----------------->White Mage
Fencer --------------> Red Mage (eg.also having Black and White Mage at lvl 35)
Kendo --------------->Samurai
Pugilist --------------->Monk
Archer --------------->Ranger
Muse ---------------->Bard
Assassin ------------->Ninja
Archanist ------------>Summoner
Elementalist --------->Black Mage
Soldier -------------->Dark Knight
Pilferer -------------->Thief

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No musketeer?

I think they could, maybe rework the crystals to be more of an "archetype" focus.

If we look at each job in the game we can see it in the basis as:
Warrior=Heavy DD
Monk=Combo DD
Dragoon=Critical DMG DD
Paladin=Tank
White Mage=Healer
Black mage=Elemental DD
Bard=Support
Summoner=Pet

Basically they could tailor each crystal to work on focusing on an archetype for said class to focus on where the crystals potential with a class is unlocked through quest.

So in the example of the Warrior Crystal it could still be called the Warrior Crystal because of it's focus on dealing high damage to foes, then in the example of say if a Pugilist were to imbue themselves with the Warrior Crystal they could become the job of "Black Belt" or something to that extent, where it's basically a Monk that focuses more on dealing heavy damage through kick attacks rather than focusing on combos.

Though that's where the problem comes in, cause the more and more you add the tougher it becomes to make sur everything stays balanced and while we would like to see a wide variety of class/jobs in the game, what fun are they to have if you favorite class ends up being gimp because another class can do things better than the class you want to be. Then you run into issues with nerfing tweaking and it does become a big mess. Hopefully they have some way to prevent the need of tweaking overtime to the extent that it is in XI where even now they are tweaking jobs to make them all worthwhile to use during events lol.

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Originally Posted by Felis

No musketeer?

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Fixed it. :)

Wow... finally.... another "let's change Armoury-/Class-System"-Thread.
Yeah we all know how great FFXI was and how stupid FFXIV is bla bla bla... i can't hear it anymore^^

This is NOT FFXI, the Armoury- and Class-System is fine! Maybe some small changes to make classes and jobs more different from each other but nothing more. I think many of you forget that when level cap increase comes, let's say next step is lvl 60: every class gets 2 new skills and 3 new traits, every job 2 new skills. With 2 or 3 more classes (archanist, musketeer) there will be more ways to combine classes for jobs.

Classes are for solo-play and small groups. Jobs are for full-parties. They have a different purpose.

And pls be more creative and don't stick to FFXI that much. E.g. why does DRK need to have a scythe or branch of from gladiator? It doesn't make sense in FFXIV. It could come from a new class, it could be a job for lancer or marauder. Weapon could also be a spiked mace or a Morning Star.

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Originally Posted by Darkillumina

I've posted a solution to this insanity before and it's quite simple.

Treat the current classes like normal until they get to 30. At 30 you need to do the job quest to progress further. You cannot get exp until you finish the quest whereupon you get promoted to the Job. This extends leveling a little bit by adding a simple limit break quest and gets rid of the useless classes post 30. Nice and simple and works with the lore.

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Reminds me of Ragnarok Online. I wouldn't mind having that system here too, and it work without having to rename our base classes, even in the Japanese version.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

The OP has some good ideas, but I don't think we will see any changes.

Keep in mind that the current Japanese names for each class are directly tied to the Armory system and are named specifically after what weapon/tool is used:

Marauder = 斧術士 (Axe Master)
Lancer = 槍術士 (Spear Master)
etc.

And since the Armory system is here to stay, we won't see multiple types of weapons for each class (at least not radically different)

However, the relic system shows us that jobs can have different weapons than their respective classes (they auto-equip the job soul needed ;) ).

So DRK could be another job for MRD but have access to Greatswords or Scythes where MRD (and WAR) wouldn't*

*just an example.. I don't want to start an argument over what class DRK should come from.

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This person knows what's up. Most people here have this conception that Jobs deviating from a Class HAVE to use that type of weapon.

It really doesn't matter that classes are here to stay. Time will tell to show the new revamps that the Battle Team has planned.

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Originally Posted by KamikazeMan

IBlack Mage should be able to use all spells that THM can use and be able to equip all weapons/armor that THM can since it's essentially the next level of Thaumaturgy....which is why the class exclusive stuff makes no damn sense to me.

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I can get behind this. Why BLM can't AoE Sanguine rite is beyond me. BLM should have Enhanced Sanguine Rite and it should be better than THMs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KamikazeMan

I always felt that jobs should be treated as advanced classes. For example: Thaumaturger can be changed so that there is no reason to want to use it once you unlock Black Mage. Black Mage should be able to use all spells that THM can use and be able to equip all weapons/armor that THM can since it's essentially the next level of Thaumaturgy....which is why the class exclusive stuff makes no damn sense to me.

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Class = Solo or Duo play
Job = Large Party play

Makes perfect sense when you think of it that way.

Do classes need more tweaking so that they function better at soloing?? Yes, I think so. Here is what I proposed earlier:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Passive job traits that shift stats and HP/MP/TP: eg. When changing from GLA to PLD, a player loses 25% of their max TP and STR, but gains a 25% boost to max MP and VIT. Similarly, BLM could lose some casting speed and spell interruption resistance, but it would gain a Magic Accuracy and Magic attack Power increase over THM.

Exclusive class abilities: eg GLD gets the AoE Weaponskill 'Circle Blade' but PLD cannot use it. Likewise, 'Cleric Stance' could become restricted to only CNJ.

Classes get access to a wider range of gear than jobs - Restrict WHM and BLM from using shields, Give PGL the ability to wear haubergeons and other light armor, whereas MNK would be restricted to leather and cloth gear.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

[...] Why BLM can't AoE Sanguine rite is beyond me. BLM should have Enhanced Sanguine Rite and it should be better than THMs.

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Because THM doesn't have access to 'Sacred Prism' unless it borrows it from CNJ. And BLM trades off using CNJ abilities for more exclusive spells.

We want MORE differences between jobs and classes, not less.

To clarify further, here is a breakdown of what changes would be nice:

(This is built with the assumption that jobs don't change)

THM - A crippling magic attacker

• gains: HP and DEF, access to better armor, larger MP pool, large enfeeb boost to spells.
• loses: INT, Magic attack
• class-exclusive Spell: Bio (DoT spell that reduces ATK) - stacks 3x

CNJ - Can go toe-to-toe with foes thanks to defensive spells.

• gains: boost to offensive spells, power, bonuses to buffs cast on self (only).
• loses: healing magic potency, Sanguine Rite (moves to WHM exclusive)
• class-exclusive Spell: Dia (DoT spell that reduces DEF) - stacks 3x

LNC - A relentless attacker that draws power from his foes.

• gains: HP, MP and VIT, enhanced life-surge (drains MP as well)
• loses: DPS, STR, TP generation bonuses
• class-exclusive WS: causes knock-back and stun (single target)

MRD - Counters enemy attacks and lands crushing blows.

• gains: larger MP pool, crit rate bonuses, parry boosts,
• loses: some VIT, HP, Defense
• class-exclusive WS: parry-triggered DEF breaking attack

GLD - A versatile master of blades.

• gains: HP, can dual-wield swords (loses accuracy, but gains DPS boost over shield).
• loses: VIT, Defense, some MP
• class-exclusive WS: Circle Blade (AOE attack - boosted when dual-wield)

ARC - Keeps foes at a distance and cuts them down with a hail of arrows.

• gains: faster TP generation, evasion boost, HP, MP, access to light armor
• loses: Access to all songs, small DPS
• class-exclusive WS: Causes gravity effect.

PGL - An evasive fighter who dodges and counterattacks

• gains: MP and HP, large evasion boost,
• loses: small amount of DPS, access to stances
• class-exclusive WS: Evasion triggered - Causes Blind

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

To clarify further, here is a breakdown of what changes would be nice:

GLD - A versatile master of blades.

• gains: HP, can dual-wield swords (loses accuracy, but gains DPS boost over shield).
• loses: VIT, Defense, some MP
• class-exclusive WS: Circle Blade (AOE attack - boosted when dual-wield)

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I really like most of your requested changes, but i'm totally unhappy about GLA. I think this would fit better:

GLD - A versatile master of blades.

• gains: DPS, ACC, can wield 2-handed-swords (loses accuracy, but gains DPS boost over shield).
• loses: VIT/Defense, blocking %
• class-exclusive WS: Circle Blade (AOE attack)
• changes to shield-based skills (shield bash -> bash with different effect when wearing 2h-sword or shield)

You guys developing ideas for a new game in here or something...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by razz

Wow... finally.... another "let's change Armoury-/Class-System"-Thread.
Yeah we all know how great FFXI was and how stupid FFXIV is bla bla bla... i can't hear it anymore^^

This is NOT FFXI, the Armoury- and Class-System is fine! Maybe some small changes to make classes and jobs more different from each other but nothing more. I think many of you forget that when level cap increase comes, let's say next step is lvl 60: every class gets 2 new skills and 3 new traits, every job 2 new skills. With 2 or 3 more classes (archanist, musketeer) there will be more ways to combine classes for jobs.

Classes are for solo-play and small groups. Jobs are for full-parties. They have a different purpose.

And pls be more creative and don't stick to FFXI that much. E.g. why does DRK need to have a scythe or branch of from gladiator? It doesn't make sense in FFXIV. It could come from a new class, it could be a job for lancer or marauder. Weapon could also be a spiked mace or a Morning Star.

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The Class system is not fine is the problem. As it is now it really seems like keeping classes was kind of an afterthought. Jobs are very limited in that they only get a few job-specific abilities and that their identities really aren't that different from classes.

You say that Classes are for solo play and small groups and Jobs are for full parties, but let's be honest here: How many of the classes are ACTUALLY more useful than their jobs for solo or small group play? The only one I can come up with an argument for is THM. Every other job seems to outperform its class pretty easily, with the exception of surviveability for those jobs who do not have access to Cure and Second Wind but the additional abilities they get make up for that.

To each their own I guess, but as it was when 1.0 ended the Classes seemed really out of place. I'm of the opinion that they should either be heavily reformed from the current formula or abolished altogether, I think the game would be much better for it. Unfortunately talking about it now will have little to no effect since by now they'll already have the basis for their reforms (if there are any) in place, else they would not be doing Alpha.