Dark Knight DD or Tank

I know on the Player Poll Dark Knight had the lowest vote. But i would like to know on the people who would play Drk, would you prefer it to be a DD like it was in 11 (not actually like 11) or it be a Tank role like in other MMOs.

DD /10characters

Uhhhh....DD. Pally can keep that lame tank role. I'm perfectly content with stabbing the mob to the point that he turns around and eats me. :D

Paladins are defensive, dark knights are offensive in the FF world. There shouldn't even be any question.

Samurai... but I would easily play a Dark Knight or ninja until then

Mage classes need priority. Arcanist and SMN isn't enough.

Then throw in more DDs.

Or heck, throw in 2 of each, and we'll be fine.

Drk DD, no brainer. It has a skill set that makes no sense for tank. Weaken def to increase att etc.. Scythe and GS aren't very good to tank consistently. >.>

It should be a DD first and foremost but not a Physical dps > magical dps DD. Both should be near enough equal through the sacrificing of hp/def etc

DD, but possibly a semi-decent back-up tank, say, can take over for a couple minutes if need be if the Paladin should fall.

They need to keep it within the series, Dark knight should be a dd in a final fantasy game.

Like everyone here has stated.. DD lol

GLD is a hybrid and then PLD and DRK are polar opposites, you cant make Dark Knight a tank without screwing that up lol

I like the idea of implementing jobs like SAM/DRK/RNG potentially as DDs but I really feel that we need another tanking class just for variety! Ninja was awesome when it was balanced in XI and many other games are implementing the idea of different types of tanks.

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Originally Posted by Blackpearlguy

I like the idea of implementing jobs like SAM/DRK/RNG potentially as DDs but I really feel that we need another tanking class just for variety! Ninja was awesome when it was balanced in XI and many other games are implementing the idea of different types of tanks.

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The funny fact of 11 was Ninja was never intended to be a tank job. The dev even went so far to make it... what was it lose hate the more you cast utsemi or every shadow absorbed made you lose hate. Samurai was suppose to be the DD tank job.

I personally HATED ninjas as tanks as my Drk they could never hold hate off of me i would pull hate from ninjas missing. Me wiffing was able to pull hate off of most/pretty much all ninjas.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

They need to keep it within the series, Dark knight should be a dd in a final fantasy game.

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Xatsh! Hey! :D

DD, and i think DRK shouldn't come with GLA class.

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Originally Posted by vax

DD, and i think DRK shouldn't come with GLA class.

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Why would you want it to be DD AND based on GLA? GLA has weak weapons and holds a shield; it would be wasted on a DD class and DRK would need an extremely high STR stat to make up for the poor damage output of swords.

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Originally Posted by Fantasia

Why would you want it to be DD AND based on GLA? GLA has weak weapons and holds a shield; it would be wasted on a DD class and DRK would need an extremely high STR stat to make up for the poor damage output of swords.

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I never said that. At least on my bad english, it shouldn't come with GLA class is that DRK should come from other class :p.

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Originally Posted by vax

I never said that. At least on my bad english, it shouldn't come with GLA class is that DRK should come from other class :p.

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Ahaha, oh sorry, I completely mis-read your comment =b
You're right <3 Hehe

It'll probably be a Greatsword/Scythe class (Not that I want it to resemble XI at all, it's just the only thing I can think of =/)

>.< I must be super tired. when i look at thread title of this thread i was thinking of batman :p. time for bed! lol

I freaking LOVE DRK! I really hope they implement it into arr... as far as dd or tank, i suppose you could pull a war trick and spec it for dd or tank, but I personally feel that it should be dd, and I agree with a post back about magic dps dd... It would be nice to see Dark Knight and Red Mage, and seeing how arcanist is supposedly going to be the debuff job, i think Red Mage should be a happy medium between debuff (dia, bio, etc...) and self buff/aoe enspell buffs. I loved taking Red Mage and enbuffing myself and going to town with my sword, where as Dark Knight could be the opposite with enhancing spells like drain spikes and stat absorbs. I Love the visual of DRK with a scythe even though great sword seems to be a fan favorite lol. I think Scythe would be something different for ffxiv seeing as is already a sword using job, but I can see it going either way. Now I feel Like I'm rambling on...

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Paladins are defensive, dark knights are offensive in the FF world. There shouldn't even be any question.

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That's kinda wrong PLD was DD/Tank/Healer in most of the games. Dark could tank well in Ff it has been in games they had really high def.

PLD are only tanks in the mmo worlds usually pld and dark are the same kinda in the Ff world hell even in FF 11 PLD str was one the highest in the game >.>

Both have high str

both have great def

and both used swords

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Originally Posted by Fantasia

Ahaha, oh sorry, I completely mis-read your comment =b
You're right <3 Hehe

It'll probably be a Greatsword/Scythe class (Not that I want it to resemble XI at all, it's just the only thing I can think of =/)

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You know that they could add greatsword to GLA right? That was the original intent of the GLA, to use sword+shield for tanking and then greatsword for DD (similar to how WHM and BLM can use both one handed and two handed weapons). However, greatswords never got implemented. We don't know how GLA is going to change in ARR, so it could be very possible for DRK to come from GLA.

As for what role DRK should perform, I would say it should be a DD/debuff class (recall it has had abilities that weaken the opponent while strengthening themselves).

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Originally Posted by lshumaker

You know that they could add greatsword to GLA right? That was the original intent of the GLA, to use sword+shield for tanking and then greatsword for DD (similar to how WHM and BLM can use both one handed and two handed weapons). However, greatswords never got implemented. We don't know how GLA is going to change in ARR, so it could be very possible for DRK to come from GLA.

As for what role DRK should perform, I would say it should be a DD/debuff class (recall it has had abilities that weaken the opponent while strengthening themselves).

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Adding a secondary weapon to classes would mean that it'll be more difficult for SE to come up with other classes as the weapon choices would fall rapidly. I don't think they'll do it (I hope they don't) since they want people to spend time levelling with as many jobs as possible.

Dark knight was only a DD in XI, right?
As far I remember it was just a heavy-armour wearing melee that had access to black magic in offline games.

The main difference between the two is simply that Paladin has abilities that regains health whilst Dark Knight has abilities that reduce it's health. As a result of this it's only suited to being a damage dealer, otherwise you're going to be doing the exact opposite of what a tank should be doing!

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Originally Posted by Fantasia

Why would you want it to be DD AND based on GLA? GLA has weak weapons and holds a shield; it would be wasted on a DD class and DRK would need an extremely high STR stat to make up for the poor damage output of swords.

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I think that was the original idea to give Gladiators a viable option to be DDs in parties where tank spots are filled or not needed.

Although at current it's kinda irrelevant cos everyone has everything at 50 anyway which is why I sorta think they should scrap classes and just release a ton of jobs. Start seeing some variety in what players have levelled. rather than the stack job a here stack job b there trends.

But yeah fairly sure the original idea of DRK was to give GLAs a place in parties where tanks aren't needed.
stemming DRK of GLA though doesn't seem it be a very offensive jobs with gla traits and skills. part of why i thought the class system should be scrapped a long time ago as it seems to really restrict job individuallity and variety. if they bring in rng from arc. it's gonna be just the same as arc/brd. maybe see a few new skills to replace bard songs but for the most part will have the same skill/trait set as an arc/brd and feel just the same to play. scrap the class system though suddenly rng could become something truly unique with its own trait system and it's own skills.

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Originally Posted by Fantasia

Adding a secondary weapon to classes would mean that it'll be more difficult for SE to come up with other classes as the weapon choices would fall rapidly. I don't think they'll do it (I hope they don't) since they want people to spend time levelling with as many jobs as possible.

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Not really. Weapons are categorized by class not type so much. So if smn for example used wands and staves all you'd end up with is a category of 1h smn arm 2h smn arm just like cnj and thm currently. Then perhaps even wands / staffs for scholars. All it''d mean is you'd have 3 or 4 categories of wands and 3 or 4 categories of staffs wouldn't really impact the number of jobs they could implement.

As for levelling it seems strange. If for example in 2.1 they bought in 8 new jobs for the current 8 classes then a lot of people would already have those jobs at 50 soon as they're released so wouldn't spend any time levelling. If they bought in 8 more in 2.2 or some other major patch then again a lot of people would already have them at 50 and again not need to level the new jobs.

Kinda seems it could be a killer as it would rapidly reach a point where new players would get stuck because once you get your 8 classes to cap you'd only ever level when the cap was raised. They could stick with one class to one job and in 2.1 release 8 new classes for the 8 new jobs. but then the armory system again seems pointless and redundant if it follows current trends where there's no reason you'd ever play any class but thm.

I tanked NP on my DRK in XI, but throughout FF they've always been considered a DD. Only western MMOs and RPs seem to take "Dark Knight" toward the tanking route.

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Originally Posted by Fadigre

Dark knight was only a DD in XI, right?
As far I remember it was just a heavy-armour wearing melee that had access to black magic in offline games.

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In Tactics it had the largest HP pool, but was one of the strongest jobs because it tore apart its own HP to deal more damage and could steal HP/MP from other mobs too. I can't really imagine a Dark Knight being a proper tank... only thing that comes to mind was Cecil in the start of IV. Neither of those had any black magic access.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I tanked NP on my DRK in XI, but throughout FF they've always been considered a DD. Only western MMOs and RPs seem to take "Dark Knight" toward the tanking route.

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PLD/DRK in the FF worlds was the almost same thing they was both tanky and able to do tons of damage Look @ steiner and beatrix from FF 9 (spell check) PLD has only been tanky in the mmo worlds

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Originally Posted by Fantasia

In Tactics it had the largest HP pool, but was one of the strongest jobs because it tore apart its own HP to deal more damage and could steal HP/MP from other mobs too. I can't really imagine a Dark Knight being a proper tank... only thing that comes to mind was Cecil in the start of IV. Neither of those had any black magic access.

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Think I kinda took Darkness for granted in regards to magic > <"
Only FF title besides XI where they actually cast is X-2, right?

As I posted HERE on my lodestone blog, I think you could make Dark Knight a good DD using Gladiator abilities by including an ability that makes damage output increase as hate increases.

And if SE doesn't want Dark Knight to tank, they can have damage taken rise with hate at the same time.

This is the exact problem with Classes + Jobs, another concept to separate itself from XI for the sake of it. Luckily, Yoshida said any future development won't be to separate the two games just to make them different from each other, so hopefully this means he'll start releasing Jobs as single entities, otherwise they developed themselves into a corner.

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Originally Posted by Fadigre

Think I kinda took Darkness for granted in regards to magic > <"
Only FF title besides XI where they actually cast is X-2, right?

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Ah yes, you're right! X-2 did. they were kind of the main debuff job too.
Weird combo, thinking about it... all I ever did was Darkness xD

I tanked as Drk in XI, and against some monsters PLD somehow kept getting 1-shotted by (spiders in that desert area for lvling). I always carried a 1-h sword and shield to do tanking with. Too bad couldnt use weapon bash that way. I DD'd with it as well. If SE goes with 1 class to 2+ jobs, it would be possible do either. They mentioned having DRK come off of GLD already, and because of how GLD skills are, that would make DRK a tank. But then they could make a Greatsword class, with offensive skills/traits, and have DRK come from that instead, or also.

I'm up for both.

How about having a true character building system where players could choose to dps or tank as drk. IT COULD HAPPEN GUISE.

DRK could build off the GLD class easily using Greatswords. The game is already setup for Job exclusive weapons.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

DRK could build off the GLD class easily using Greatswords. The game is already setup for Job exclusive weapons.

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Its almost a tactics job system.

Get x and y get Z unlocked. Just that Z starts at level 30 and uses X and Ys job skills as well. They really do need to introduce job specific weapons as you said though - I am sure they are going to. Cant imagine how they would set up some of the job classes otherwise. Base job with a katana? ... Only the Samurai can use a Katana dont kid yourself :P

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

DRK could build off the GLD class easily using Greatswords. The game is already setup for Job exclusive weapons.

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in some interview yoshi said he had an idea for dark knight to branch of pld, but if you choose dark knight not being able to go back to pld. He also said dont worry, its just a thought he was toying with or w/e and not to panic. Anyway, i like the idea of an advanced job that would eliminate the use of another job (but prob wont happen cause people will cry to much about having to make a decision that they will have to live with for the rest of the game)

Has it ever really been said that job have to only have 5 unique abilities on equip and that they need to learn everything from the class they originated from?

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Originally Posted by Fadigre

Has it ever really been said that job have to only have 5 unique abilities on equip and that they need to learn everything from the class they originated from?

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2.0 is supposed to have a lot of changes to actions so i wonder if lvl 50 jobs will still only have 5 unique abilities.

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Originally Posted by Fadigre

Has it ever really been said that job have to only have 5 unique abilities on equip and that they need to learn everything from the class they originated from?

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Until we get a level cap or a change in system thats how it appears to be :/

Limiting incoming class abilities makes balancing and expectations easier but I do wish jobs had a bigger role then 5 abilities (though then the point of going just as a class is reduced a bit).

Wouldnt have minded a more FF tactic/FF XI approach where the new job starts at level 1. Then you could maintain the use of using just a class or a job - and easier introduce of class specific weapons.