DoH Bonecraft

DoH that works with bone,fish materials for equipment
Would make it more profitable for fishing DoL.

This would require recipe change for mainly goldsmith.

Coral Ring/1 Red Coral, 8 wind shards
Bonecraft/1 Red Coral,3 wind shards

Sorta like arm/bsm

Bonecraft Recipes


Horn Fishing Rod
Horn Staff
Red Coral Arrow
Blue Coral Arrow
Crabshell Bow
Hellbound Axe (Hellhound Fang x3+Cobalt Plate+Yell Lumber)
Bone Harpoon
Raptor Cesti
Cat Claws
Crabshell Hora
Bone Hora
Bone Arrowhead
Bone staff
Ivory Staff
Bone Armillae
Scale Harness
Wyvern Skull hat
Bone Knife
Wolf Earring
Horned Hatchet
Hawk Necklace (2 Hawksbill Shells+ Cotton Yard)
Arcana Necklace (x2 Scallop Shell+ Skull)

Repair changes
Bonecraft: Giantsgall Weapons
few more listed above

Materials the new DoH could use

Hippogryph Talon
Raptor Talon
Hyena Fang
Bat Fang
Hellhound Fang
Hedgemole Spine
Ladybug Elytron
Firefly Elytron
Miter Shell
Blacklip Oyster
Blue Yarzon Leg
Yellow Yarzon Leg
Biast Scales
Drake Scales
Green Megalocrab Shell
Red Megalocrab Shell
Sunrise Tellin
Scallop Shell
Buffalo Horn
Mossy Horn
Ram Horn
White Coral
Red Coral
Blue Coral
Soiled Femur
Aldgoat Horn
Antelope Horn
Ogre Horn
Bone Chip
Coeurl Talon
Uncultured Pearl
Black Pearl

Cool story, bro. Any compelling reason why they should split up goldsmith recipes into two classes? Because otherwise you're just pointing out that what would have been bonecraft got put in as part of goldsmith instead, which was clearly a conscious decision on the part of SE.

What have pearls to do with bones?

Interesting idea, I like the sound of the Wyvern skull helm.
A part of me thinks working bones a little too primitive for the slightly more technologically advanced Eorzea, but then again we do already have Harpoons of bone (or shell plates) and other such gear.
We'd probably have to have a lot more Bone-Based gear if any such DoH was implemented.

Yes, please!

I miss making Dragon Harnesses :D

i do miss bone crafting. be happy if they brought it back.

It already exists in game as a part of goldsmithing. It was clearly a conscious decision, and a good one. We don't need more classes for every little niche.

The list of item ideas seems nice. Have them all be made by GSM and that's that.

but then why have armorer and Blacksmith they are Virtually the same exact thing. and there was not armorer in 11 it fell under Black smith

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

but then why have armorer and Blacksmith they are Virtually the same exact thing. and there was not armorer in 11 it fell under Black smith

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A lot has to do with recipe count. One class being able to make almost all armors and weapons/tools as well would be quite overpowered.

Why do you think they're spending so much time trying to figure out which DoH should be able to make the Arcanist books?

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

but then why have armorer and Blacksmith they are Virtually the same exact thing. and there was not armorer in 11 it fell under Black smith

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oh, i don't know- because then it would become some kind of superclass with wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too many profitable recipes? it shouldn't take anyone more than a split second to come to that glaringly obvious realization.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

A lot has to do with recipe count. One class being able to make almost all armors and weapons/tools as well would be quite overpowered.

Why do you think they're spending so much time trying to figure out which DoH should be able to make the Arcanist books?

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ACN books could easily be divided between a few DoH classes; For example Wvr (Or Crp) could make the Parchment, Ltw could make the leather backing and you could even create the finished product on GSM if it's an Ornate styled book.

...It's all speculation at the moment though lol :/

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Originally Posted by Leoheart

ACN books could easily be divided between a few DoH classes; For example Wvr could make the Parchment, Ltw could make the leather backing and you could even create the finished product on GSM if it's an Ornate styled book.

...It's all speculation at the moment though lol :/

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Except they took out parts. I don't doubt they may be shared between 2, maybe 3 classes based on specific designs but that's the case with weapons in game already.

I wouldn't mind the implementation as long as it is more involving then just splitting Goldsmith into basically another class.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

I wouldn't mind the implementation as long as it is more involving then just splitting Goldsmith into basically another class.

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Well removing some of the Gsm crafts and replacing them with something else I wouldnt mind.

This could simply become a specialization of GSM down the road.

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Originally Posted by Fated

This could simply become a specialization of GSM down the road.

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this is actually something i'd like to see implemented. letting everyone level every DoH is fine, but later they can add specializations that allow you to pick one specialization to craft exclusive things that a non-specialized person can't.

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Originally Posted by fusional

this is actually something i'd like to see implemented. letting everyone level every DoH is fine, but later they can add specializations that allow you to pick one specialization to craft exclusive things that a non-specialized person can't.

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I want this as well.

Bonecraft is part of goldsmithing. Doesn't need to change.

Something we don't need is more DoH classes. Just need to make the ones we have now better.

AND LETS HAVE A BOOKBINDER CLASS WHERE ALL THEY DO IS CRAFT BOOKS!! ...How about no? GSM taking care of the bone crafting is just fine.

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

Cool story, bro. Any compelling reason why they should split up goldsmith recipes into two classes?

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"Cool story, bro" want to explain why they split up and rearranged the elemental table between THM and CNJ mean while leaving out previously used attack spells altogether (Water)? It honestly makes much more sense for there to be a "Bonecraft" profession to utilize the bones/scales more so than BSM/GSM/ARM utilizing them. Goldsmith in general is a jeweler that deals in fine gems and metals..not really the random teeth from wolves.

I wonder how many times a dev suggested something and yoshi turned and yelled

THIS
ISN'T
FFXI!

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Originally Posted by Elexia

..not really the random teeth from wolves.

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http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...thNecklace.jpg

No. This is definitely GSM territory. When the game launched, there was a key item 'bonecarving manual' goldsmiths had to buy with guildmarks in order to work with bone/coral.

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Originally Posted by fusional

this is actually something i'd like to see implemented. letting everyone level every DoH is fine, but later they can add specializations that allow you to pick one specialization to craft exclusive things that a non-specialized person can't.

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If they only allow one specialization as a DoH, then they should only allow you to have one job a a battle class. I really don't want to have to level 8 mules to specialize in all the DoH jobs.

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Originally Posted by IBloodmoon

If they only allow one specialization as a DoH, then they should only allow you to have one job a a battle class. I really don't want to have to level 8 mules to specialize in all the DoH jobs.

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They already said ages ago that with time they will somehow limit how many craft you can 'maximize' or 'specialize' in though, so that wouldn't be so surprising. DoH classes were always a different kind of beast, not really comparable to battle classes.

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Originally Posted by Gokulo

They already said ages ago that with time they will somehow limit how many craft you can 'maximize' or 'specialize' in though, so that wouldn't be so surprising. DoH classes were always a different kind of beast, not really comparable to battle classes.

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They have said a lot of things that have been changed, dropped, or forgotten. There's no reason to force limitations on one set on Disciplines and not on another.

I'm fine with GSM the way it is. Don't need another damn craft to go level. Leave GSM as it is.

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Originally Posted by IBloodmoon

They have said a lot of things that have been changed, dropped, or forgotten. There's no reason to force limitations on one set on Disciplines and not on another.

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having every single job class at max level doesn't significantly impact your ability to make money, at least not in a positive way. if anything it's negative because you have to spend that much more gearing up additional classes. having every single crafting and gathering class at max level, on the other hand, *very significantly* impacts your ability to make money and participate in the game economy. the two examples aren't equivalent whatsoever. your logic fails.

furthermore, the idea of DoH specialization wouldn't prevent you from having all DoH classes at max level. it would only prevent you from making a certain (likely very small) set of items endemic to that specialization alone. for example: taking a hart guisarme and adding some U/U material that drops from a new raid to make a new, stronger lance.

with everyone being able to have every DoH at max level, there's no variance and little interplay between players in the economy. everyone just makes what they need and sells whatever is the hottest thing. specialization would make certain items more rare since the number of people who can make it would decrease, and as a result the value of those items would increase.

this would actually make your crafting skills a little more in demand since there would be less supply.

i don't see how this could possibly be a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

AND LETS HAVE A BOOKBINDER CLASS WHERE ALL THEY DO IS CRAFT BOOKS!! ...How about no?

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Why not?
arcanist books, exp scrolls, maps, notizes, recipes, wallpapers for the housing, everything that has to do with paper

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Originally Posted by Elexia

"Cool story, bro" want to explain why they split up and rearranged the elemental table between THM and CNJ mean while leaving out previously used attack spells altogether (Water)? It honestly makes much more sense for there to be a "Bonecraft" profession to utilize the bones/scales more so than BSM/GSM/ARM utilizing them. Goldsmith in general is a jeweler that deals in fine gems and metals..not really the random teeth from wolves.

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What are you on about?

Bones teeth and horns have been made into jewelry and considered a precious material since humans started to adorn them selfs with silly baubles.

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Originally Posted by fusional

having every single job class at max level doesn't significantly impact your ability to make money, at least not in a positive way. if anything it's negative because you have to spend that much more gearing up additional classes. having every single crafting and gathering class at max level, on the other hand, *very significantly* impacts your ability to make money and participate in the game economy. the two examples aren't equivalent whatsoever. your logic fails.

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Even if having all your job at max level doesn't affect your ability to make money, it does affect your ability to participate in the content made for that Discipline. "Impacting the economy" is the main content available to DoH and DoL classes. While having all 50's in those disciplines does improve your ability to make money, everyone has the same ability to level those classes and thus effect the economy. Limiting the ability of one discipline to access all advanced classes is exactly the same as limiting another discipline's ability to access all advanced classes.

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Originally Posted by fusional

furthermore, the idea of DoH specialization wouldn't prevent you from having all DoH classes at max level. it would only prevent you from making a certain (likely very small) set of items endemic to that specialization alone. for example: taking a hart guisarme and adding some U/U material that drops from a new raid to make a new, stronger lance.

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The same can be said for classes and jobs. Having access to only one job wouldn't prevent you from having all battle classes at max level. It is an unnecessary limitation on both disciplines and goes against the idea of the armory system.

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Originally Posted by fusional

with everyone being able to have every DoH at max level, there's no variance and little interplay between players in the economy. everyone just makes what they need and sells whatever is the hottest thing. specialization would make certain items more rare since the number of people who can make it would decrease, and as a result the value of those items would increase.

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The same can be said of having all jobs at 50. There's no variance and little interplay between players, outside of static groups. I won't say everyone, but the majority of PUG's only want whichever job is hot at the time. Restricting people to a single job would make those jobs more rare and valuable.

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Originally Posted by fusional

this would actually make your crafting skills a little more in demand since there would be less supply.

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Just because less people would be able to make the items(less supply) does not mean that the demand for those items would be greater. How good the item itself is is what would drive demand.

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Originally Posted by fusional

i don't see how this could possibly be a bad thing.

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I can only see this as a bad thing; so, we'll have to agree to disagree. It is an artificial limitation anyway, because I would just make 8 alternate characters to have all the specializations anyway. But this would be an unfair restriction to any non-legacy players that would have to pay for the additional character slots. Besides that fact that I really don't want to have to level all the DoH classes 8 times.

I don't actually agree with limiting everyone to a single job; I'm just trying to point out that it is just as absurd to limit DoH as it is to limit DoW/DoM.

TL;DR: Having unnecessary limitations on DoH/DoL classes is bad. Mmm'k.

On topic: The list looks pretty cool, but I don't see a need to split it off of the goldsmith class.

"Crafter specialization" is not some kind of a magic wand to fix the economy, either for specific items or in general. We had that in FF11. Being able to make a decent profit on an item only lasted so long before a ton of other people decided to also make that item and flood the market. The only way to keep any particular craftable items at a good profit margin is to have a wide variance of highly desirable craftable items that consistently sell. If, for example, the only things people generally wanted were class weapons for relics, eventually the price is going to completely tank, regardless of how many hoops you have to jump through in order to craft them.

At a certain point, it starts feeling pointless to continue mining for low HQ rate, crafting materials with good HQ rate, crafting with mix ins from vendor for low HQ rate, crafting parts with mediocre HQ rate, and rarely if ever HQing the end product... Some people will keep trudging along flooding the market for less profit than before while others get disheartened from their terrible luck busting 2-3 darksteel ingots and/or 5-6 flawless parts in a row and consider the whole thing a huge waste of time. Even when folks bow out, that won't help the prices, because those who remain will continue to make huge volumes of the item.

Granted, it's still better than FF11, where you couldn't sell anything of value at anything but a HUGE LOSS unless it was HQ, where you often barely broke even, considering how many other people made the same item and apparently didn't do it for the gil. It ended up that most of anything worth selling (for a high price tag) was drops, not crafted items.

There's definitely stuff that could be done to improve the economy, but crafter specialization isn't one of those things. After their last great effort on this, the super terrible materia system (which is the most luck-based nonsense in a game that is mostly luck-based), I'm really not interested in seeing them try to fix it anymore. Granted, it did "breathe life" into the economy, but I don't think we're better off for it, unless you're really lucky and super love to kill mobs in SB gear all day and night.

Come to think of it, "crafter specialization" could actually make things worse. Currently, since anyone can make anything (if they invest the time), if a certain item isn't turning enough profit, they can seek to make a different item and try to find some kind of equilibrium. With "crafter specialization", they'd have to level their alts as well in order to do this. Assuming the high ticket items are the ones that require "crafter specialization", you could be in for a world of hurt if you decided to specialize in a craft a lot of other people specialized in. You could fool yourself into think the "less popular" crafts would then turn a way higher profit... and you'd even be right... for a very short period before enough people joined the club to flood the hell out of the market, which is the inevitable conclusion to that little drama.

Bottom line, the way to fix it would be a wide variety of highly desirable craftable items, so folks don't just focus on a small subset.

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

Come to think of it, "crafter specialization" could actually make things worse. Currently, since anyone can make anything (if they invest the time), if a certain item isn't turning enough profit, they can seek to make a different item and try to find some kind of equilibrium. With "crafter specialization", they'd have to level their alts as well in order to do this. Assuming the high ticket items are the ones that require "crafter specialization", you could be in for a world of hurt if you decided to specialize in a craft a lot of other people specialized in. You could fool yourself into think the "less popular" crafts would then turn a way higher profit... and you'd even be right... for a very short period before enough people joined the club to flood the hell out of the market, which is the inevitable conclusion to that little drama.

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it's like you guys are knee-jerk reacting so hard that you don't want to actually read and process what's being talked about here.

you don't
specialize
in
a
craft

you specialize
in
one
craft's
specialization

you keep all your precious level 50 DOHs (i have them too, captain) and DOLs, you keep all your recipes, you keep your ability to make ANYTHING... except for a very small subset of special items only one craft's specialization can make. IE: you can make everything in the damn game that you can already make now- but choosing one specialization would add another few items you can make. and only that specialization can make it.

if you think this will somehow miraculously change the game economy and that you'd be FORCED to level alts to have every specialization, you're out of your god damned mind and you understand econ even less than i'd anticipated. unless you're just OCD and OMGOMGNEEDTOHAVEITALL- you can still make sarngas and mailbreakers and rampagers and obelisks and felt cavalier hats and ringbands of storms and mahogany pattens and lightning brands and meld them up and sell them for ENORMOUS profit, just like you've ALWAYS been able to do with very little effort. but then you'd also get a few new items only people who choose that specialization would make.

no matter how you try to spin it, allowing everyone to have every craft at max level lowers demand for crafting services. why would i need to commission you to make anything for me? i can make it my damn self, and for much less. but if you have a specialization i don't, and i need something made- hey, look, a new market. i pay you to make something i can't. one of the five items in the entire game that i can't make.

so not only can you sell these (maybe? unless they make them U/U which would also be fine) for profit, making extra money you wouldn't have been able to make otherwise, but you can sell the service of making them for people who chose different specializations.

if you're worried about an imbalance of one thing being more in demand than another, then i guess we have to nerf EVERY SINGLE DOH every time a new patch introduces new goods that end up being more in demand than others, right? to make it fair? because, get this- even though you have the ABILITY to level all crafts to 50... that doesn't necessarily mean that you *have* all crafts to 50. so if you chose the wrong craft to level... i guess you're screwed, eh? until the economy shifts again with a new patch and new recipes and your craft becomes more profitable.

no, ffxi didn't have this. this is nothing like ffxi. the examples aren't equivalent. ridiculous comparison. ffxi let you level everything halfway and then you could only choose one to take to 100. this isn't the same thing at all. maybe you're knee-jerk reacting based on your experience with this. is this the only crafting system you've ever experienced? is it all you know? is that why you run back to that every time you need a frame of reference, in spite of the two things not being comparable?

though even with ffxi, every craft had the ability to make tons of money. alchemy and cooking seemed to be on the short end of the stick (and alchemy kind of was), but they did it differently. that was about a constant influx of consumable items with little to no personal risk. the other crafts made money through HQing big ticket items, and running the risk of breaking them and losing the mats.

crafting in this game gives you both options already, with every/all classes. you can take the easy safe route to make money, just selling materials or finished products (which are in effect consumable since you can SB them or break them with melding attempts), or you can accept the risks and go for HQs and melds for greater profit (and sometimes pure loss)

it's homogenized. nothing stands out from anything else. there's no demand for anyone else's services unless you're simply feeling lazy. there's *no impetus to interact with the player base or the game economy* because you can do it all yourself. and people wonder why the game's community feels so less tight-knit than in XI...

so specialization would offer all the perks that came with XI's system without any of the major downfalls. you lose no recipes, but gain a few new ones. you benefit immediately from higher demand on simple principle of there being less suppliers. you lose nothing. literally. nothing. all you could possibly make an argument for losing is potential earnings by choosing a specialization with items that end up selling for slightly less than another.

and you know what? get over it. if the point of an MMORPG was to equalize everything so everyone has the same shot to do every single thing and make every single thing and acquire every single thing, what's the point of hard mode fights? what's the point of relic? what's the point of anything?

and don't even start with this "oh well then i guess we should only allow people to choose one battle class" antilogic. if having every battle class at 50 is even remotely comparable i should be seeing far more of you parading around in relic and white ravens. except those are plenty exclusive in spite of everyone having all 50 battle classes. weird, right?

and one last thing for emphasis:

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

Bottom line, the way to fix it would be a wide variety of highly desirable craftable items, so folks don't just focus on a small subset.

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so your logic is that having a few new unique recipes for each specialization would render everything else undesirable and suddenly everyone only makes the specialized things. wrong again.

people will still need SB gear
people will still need class weapons for relic
people will still need HQ crafting gear and HQ tools
people will still need darksteel haubs and vanya sashes
people will still need fingerless raptorskin gloves (in bulk)
etc etc

introducing a couple new, more exclusive items doesn't eliminate need for others. it doesn't impact them in any way. class weapons spiked in popularity for relic, but that's been the only change in market for over a year. everything else has pretty much remained steady.

people don't stop buying milk and eggs because a few stores carry new, exclusive espresso machines.

Adding a specialization is a good thing. Key word here is adding. Good thing Yoshi had already confirmed in the past that players will be able to select one craft to pursue mastery in. So as far as DoH goes in the future, relating to specializations and or mastery, players will already be limited to mastering one crafted class while they can simply cap the others.

Even in ARR we know each DoH is becoming more independent with less cross classing skills and less dependence on levelling multiple crafts to be good at one.

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Originally Posted by fusional

it's like you guys are knee-jerk reacting so hard that you don't want to actually read and process what's being talked about here.

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Funny, that's what I was thinking about your posts. If your head hasn't exploded, allow me to retort. I have never said that it was about making money, you were the one to bring that up. I've always said that its about not limiting one discipline's advancement opportunities with no regard to the others.

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Originally Posted by fusional

if you think this will somehow miraculously change the game economy and that you'd be FORCED to level alts to have every specialization, you're out of your god damned mind and you understand econ even less than i'd anticipated.

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Personally, I don't think that specializations would have any impact whatsoever on the economy, positive or negative. I will reiterate what I posted earlier. Having less people be able to make an item doesn't magically make the demand for it higher, how good an item is compared to what else is available makes the the demand higher or lower.

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Originally Posted by fusional

unless you're just OCD and OMGOMGNEEDTOHAVEITALL.

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Yes I admit I am OCD and OMGOMGNEEDTOHAVEITALL. I don't see why one group of players should be able to have it all in there chosen field but the rest should not.

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Originally Posted by fusional

make stuff and meld them up and sell them for ENORMOUS profit, just like you've ALWAYS been able to do with very little effort.

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I am probably one of the poorest crafters with multiple 50's there is, but I will have to disagree with you on the ease of making and double/triple melding items.

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Originally Posted by fusional

no matter how you try to spin it, allowing everyone to have every craft at max level lowers demand for crafting services.

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Again it does not change the demand for services, it increases the supply of those services available. If you are going to continually use that as an argument at least say it correctly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

why would i need to commission you to make anything for me? i can make it my damn self, and for much less. but if you have a specialization i don't, and i need something made- hey, look, a new market. i pay you to make something i can't. one of the five items in the entire game that i can't make.

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Because while you and I might be willing to level all our crafts to 50(except CUL for me, its such a pain, but still I plug away at it. :( ), most people are not willing to do it and a lot of people aren't even interested in crafting at all(according to the player polls at least.)

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Originally Posted by fusional

if you're worried about an imbalance of one thing being more in demand than another, then i guess we have to nerf EVERY SINGLE DOH every time a new patch introduces new goods that end up being more in demand than others, right? to make it fair? because, get this- even though you have the ABILITY to level all crafts to 50... that doesn't necessarily mean that you *have* all crafts to 50. so if you chose the wrong craft to level... i guess you're screwed, eh? until the economy shifts again with a new patch and new recipes and your craft becomes more profitable.

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not worried about this in the slightest.

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Originally Posted by fusional

no, ffxi didn't have this. this is nothing like ffxi. the examples aren't equivalent. ridiculous comparison. ffxi let you level everything halfway and then you could only choose one to take to 100. this isn't the same thing at all. maybe you're knee-jerk reacting based on your experience with this. is this the only crafting system you've ever experienced? is it all you know? is that why you run back to that every time you need a frame of reference, in spite of the two things not being comparable?

though even with ffxi, every craft had the ability to make tons of money. alchemy and cooking seemed to be on the short end of the stick (and alchemy kind of was), but they did it differently. that was about a constant influx of consumable items with little to no personal risk. the other crafts made money through HQing big ticket items, and running the risk of breaking them and losing the mats.

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Never said anything about FFXI, I didn't play it long enough or recently enough to have a informed opinion on the game. While I enjoyed it at the time, events outside of the game prevented me from playing. I know you might not have meant this part in response to me, but since you didn't specify, I felt obliged to respond. [/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by fusional

crafting in this game gives you both options already, with every/all classes. you can take the easy safe route to make money, just selling materials or finished products (which are in effect consumable since you can SB them or break them with melding attempts), or you can accept the risks and go for HQs and melds for greater profit (and sometimes pure loss)

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I agree and its nice to finally have a game where selling finished items is actually more profitable that selling the materials themselves. I have played several MMo's and this is rarely the case.

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Originally Posted by fusional

it's homogenized. nothing stands out from anything else. there's no demand for anyone else's services unless you're simply feeling lazy. there's *no impetus to interact with the player base or the game economy* because you can do it all yourself. and people wonder why the game's community feels so less tight-knit than in XI...

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Have to disagree here for the reason listed above. I have quite a bit of interaction with the community doing repairs, melding, and making requested items for people. If you don't then your server is vastly different from mine or you have no desire to look for those people that need your services.

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Originally Posted by fusional

so specialization would offer all the perks that came with XI's system without any of the major downfalls. you lose no recipes, but gain a few new ones. you benefit immediately from higher demand on simple principle of there being less suppliers. you lose nothing. literally. nothing. all you could possibly make an argument for losing is potential earnings by choosing a specialization with items that end up selling for slightly less than another.

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I like the idea of "jobs" for DoH classes, but I am completely against limiting the number of them you can have.

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Originally Posted by fusional

and you know what? get over it. if the point of an MMORPG was to equalize everything so everyone has the same shot to do every single thing and make every single thing and acquire every single thing, what's the point of hard mode fights? what's the point of relic? what's the point of anything?

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I'm not sure where this came from, but the whole point of the armory system was to allow people to play as all the classes on a single character. It kind of goes against the point of the armory system to me.

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Originally Posted by fusional

and don't even start with this "oh well then i guess we should only allow people to choose one battle class" antilogic. if having every battle class at 50 is even remotely comparable i should be seeing far more of you parading around in relic and white ravens. except those are plenty exclusive in spite of everyone having all 50 battle classes.

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Its not anitlogic, which isn't a word to begin with, to say that limiting the advancement of one discipline is the same as limiting the advancement of another discipline. If you really want to argue that having all jobs at 50 doesn't increase your chances of participating in end game content, there are a slew of threads saying "I can't get in a group to do X content because I don't have Y job" i can point you to. Its not about making the items, its about having the ability to make the items. You certainly see people with all battle classes leveled having a greater shot at participating in relic quests and Van Darnus hard mode because they have the flexibility to come as what is needed/wanted.

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Originally Posted by fusional

weird, right?

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Not really.

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Originally Posted by fusional

and one last thing for emphasis

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This is clearly not aimed at me, so I will skip this part. On a final note though, you may want to clean up your own antilogic, whatever that is, and the contradictions that riddle your own arguments before belittling other people's POV.

@OP I am sorry for hijacking your thread. You have some good ideas for adding recipes for bonecraft that I think should just stay under GSM class.

TL;DR: Advanced DoH jobs would great, but I don't want them to limit us to just one. If they do, then I will just make alts that non-legacy players will have to pay for to be on an equal footing with those of us OCD inflicted legacy members that do.

/threadhijack off

We need more battle classes not crafting classes...