Possible Hate Bug on Ifrit Extreme?

Hi, guys!
Tanking Ifrit EX is for sure a pain in the ass, especially when it seems to be afflicted by a bug. :mad:
I'm speaking of the Tank's Nightmare Ability, the f*****g hate reset Ifrit uses after each damn jumps. It's known that you have to wait for Incinerate bla bla bla before voke it, but today for 2 times I couldn't get hate from it.

First time:
After I voked it, my hate was green, and I thought about 2 possibilities:

• Voked too early
• Someone else got hate

So I used Flash after few seconds, just to be sure to get it, shouting on TS to my friends to not use anything. Still green... Well, the one with hate started kiting Ifrit, till cooldown on abilities was ready. I used again Provoke + Flash but nothing! Still damn green! WTF! :mad:

Second time:
Jump, Incinerate bla bla bla, I used Provoke + Flash, my party gathered behind Ifrit and WHM used Sacred Prism and started casting Regenga. My hate passed from pulsing red to green. :mad:

So? I'm quite sure it's something buggy about this damn hate reset trend, but I didn't read anything about it, so I wanted to know if someone else got this problem while playing. Thank you in advance.

Did anyone get hit by incinerate?

Was the person he was on the WHM? If so, did he use shroud of saints before jump?

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Originally Posted by Fievel

Was the person he was on the WHM? If so, did he use shroud of saints before jump?

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this.
/10

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Originally Posted by Enma

Stuff, yeah...

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I FEEL THIS PAIN.
TWELVE HAVE MERCY.

Our WHMs know not to use Shroud. They also seem to believe Second Wind is bugged here, too.
Either way, nobody is allowed to use anything come jumps and this still occurs from time to time.

It makes me saddest.

The most frustrating part is knowing how to get around it.

Normally after Incinerate I'll pull back to the north with both Provoke and Flash, then use Rampart when the clowns have all gathered together to solidify my position on the hate list but he seems to just have a mind of his own at times.

Anybody have any tips?

I've seen this before as has anyone who has done Ifrit X enough. I always thought it was a hate bug as well.

As WHM, I had this experience once: do literally nothing from the time he first jumps until he lands and incinerate complete yet still go from green to flashing red AFTER incinerate. Fieval's response above would explain this.

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Originally Posted by Fievel

Was the person he was on the WHM? If so, did he use shroud of saints before jump?

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So this is the scenario?

WHM uses Shroud of Saints, reducing their enmity by half
Ifrit jumps, hate reset for all
Ifrit completes dashes and lands, targets someone other than WHM, uses incinerate
Shroud of Saints wears off and WHM receives the enmity they shred back which of course is much higher than PLD's initial voke/flash

This is the only plausible explanation I've come across and may just be the reason for this as I cannot specifically recall this happening to anyone other than a WHM.

Honestly the only time I've seen this happen is when the WHM uses shroud of saints just before jump, because they then get all the hate back once it wears off even though Ifrit was supposed to have reset.

Edit: Sorry Vexerus, missed your post before making this one. Yes, that's exactly what happens.

JP party doing this, whoever get enmity just kite him and everyone else gather @ center, PLD rampart when he in Incinerate motion. Timing very important, if you do it b4 and pull hate, everyone got PRESENT.

Its just people not being careful about threat.

Rampart on 6 people, get Ifrit to your tank spot, Voke/Flash and resume.

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Originally Posted by Leo_Hart

JP party doing this, whoever get enmity just kite him and everyone else gather @ center, PLD rampart when he in Incinerate motion. Timing very important, if you do it b4 and pull hate, everyone got PRESENT.

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

Its just people not being careful about threat.

Rampart on 6 people, get Ifrit to your tank spot, Voke/Flash and resume.

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You guys just don't understand exactly what is happening here. It is a lot more subtle than simply saying "PLD can't get enough hate" or "others are pulling too much hate."

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Originally Posted by Vexerus

You guys just don't understand exactly what is happening here. It is a lot more subtle than simply saying "PLD can't get enough hate" or "others are pulling too much hate."

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I knew it's bit off topic, but flash/provoke after incinerate is not best choice @ that case though. My intention is just to let OP aoe rampart is better choice.

99% of the time, the phenomenon being discussed is a result of Shroud of Saints coming off. As mentioned, if the WHM has 5000 enmity, uses Shroud to temporarily shed 2500 enmity, then Ifrit jumps and clears hate, Shroud will still return 2500 enmity when it wears.

Lol i think some ppl don't understand what OP is talking about.

some log evidence from a run a couple weeks ago for anyone who doubts it's shroud of saints:

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Ifrit readies Incinerate.
You use Provoke on Ifrit.
Ifrit's Incinerate misses.
Your Riot Blade hits Ifrit from the rear for 378 points of damage.
White Mage is no longer under the effect of Shroud of Saints.
You use Flash on Ifrit.
Ifrit's attack hits White Mage from the right for 1172 points of damage.
You use Rage of Halone on Ifrit from the rear.
Ifrit's attack hits White Mage for 1068 points of damage.

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Odds are someone used a Mega pot, Second Wind, casted a cure, or used an ability. Those will all take hate after a jump even if the tank provokes.

Our general rule of thumb was: Just auto-attack after jump.

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Originally Posted by SniperRifle

Odds are someone used a Mega pot, Second Wind, casted a cure, or used an ability. Those will all take hate after a jump even if the tank provokes.

Our general rule of thumb was: Just auto-attack after jump.

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Except that's not what's happening.

If Ifrit is going after the WHM after your tank Vokes and Flashes, then it is most likely due to Shroud of Saints, because of the way the mechanics of the ability work.

If it's not due to the Shroud of Saints glitch, then it's most likely due to your tank being bad. In that case, you should take the advise of the other people in this thread, rampart after incinerate, ready spirits within, ect. Normal PLD stuff.

An easy fix is to just make sure that WHMs are only using Shroud when it's guaranteed to wear when Ifrit can't jump, which is basically just during the beginning of each nails phase.

Thank you guys for your ideas. I'm glad (?) to see that It's not just a problem of mine.
If it's due to Shroud of Saints ability, should be considered a bug then?

Yeah seen this happen before, had the whm use shroud whilst Ifrit dashed, then seem to have perma hate on the whm till it died so I suspected it was to do with shroud of saints, nice to see others had the same problem and I can explain it to the whm now.

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Originally Posted by Enma

Thank you guys for your ideas. I'm glad (?) to see that It's not just a problem of mine.
If it's due to Shroud of Saints ability, should be considered a bug then?

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not if SoS is a temporary hate reduction, its working as intended

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

not if SoS is a temporary hate reduction, its working as intended

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I understand it. But if that stupid lizard RESETS hate, it MUST reset hate!!! :D

We've also had a situation where a Prism'd Esuna botched a run when used after a jump, but like it's been pointed out, save your Shroud for nails.

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Originally Posted by Vexerus

I've seen this before as has anyone who has done Ifrit X enough. I always thought it was a hate bug as well.

As WHM, I had this experience once: do literally nothing from the time he first jumps until he lands and incinerate complete yet still go from green to flashing red AFTER incinerate. Fieval's response above would explain this.



So this is the scenario?

WHM uses Shroud of Saints, reducing their enmity by half
Ifrit jumps, hate reset for all
Ifrit completes dashes and lands, targets someone other than WHM, uses incinerate
Shroud of Saints wears off and WHM receives the enmity they shred back which of course is much higher than PLD's initial voke/flash

This is the only plausible explanation I've come across and may just be the reason for this as I cannot specifically recall this happening to anyone other than a WHM.

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Yep this

Happened to our WHM a lot and we couldn't figure out what she was doing to cause it. Vex has hit it right on the money. Not really a big deal, she would die off in a corner then tank gets hate back and we rez and move on... This shouldn't wipe any decent group

It's working as the ability was intended, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be adjusted. A simple resetting of the enmity stored in SoS during a hate reset fixes the problem. It's likely just a situation the devs had not considered (stored enmity and hate resets), but there is an easy enough workaround of not using the ability.

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Originally Posted by Defmetal

It's working as the ability was intended, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be adjusted. A simple resetting of the enmity stored in SoS during a hate reset fixes the problem. It's likely just a situation the devs had not considered (stored enmity and hate resets), but there is an easy enough workaround of not using the ability.

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Hi Def, Enma,

I can see that side of it as well. After all it only says,

"Temporarily reduces enmity by half, and gradually restores MP while effect is active."

If you believe it should be a clean reset after, maybe submit it as a bug / suggestion to SE on their website?

http://support.na.square-enix.com/co...hp?id=902&la=1