Coincounter

He hits hard. Don't like him. Been watching my paladin friends die.

How do you guys reliably deal with the cyclops?



...and don't say "throw gil."
(I want that to be a 1 hit KO move on him when implemented.)

From all the research I've done, the best way is:

-Know the distance to stand to avoid 1000 Tonze Swing and Eye of the beholder. Both AoEs WILL one shot you
-Tank must know when to start running from 1000 Tonze Swing which will make Coincounter fall on his ass for a little bit if it hits nobody.
-Keep a sharp eye on the chatlog and watch for Animal Instinct. Nobody should attack/cure/anything until the tank receives full hate again from Coincounter.
-When adds pop, kill the adds closest to you if their skills will be able to hit you. They can Silence you which is incredibly nasty for the fight

It's all about knowing how to avoid his skills, Thal. Coincounter may be strong, but he's fairly slow at firing moves off.

For the tank, the most important skills to watch out for are 100Tonze Swipe and 100Tonze Swing. Swipe can be avoided by running straight through him so that you're standing just behind/under his butt. I've found the most effective way to avoid Swing is to run either straight to the left or right. Now, the minimum distance you need to run is kind of fuzzy with lag. Judging that distance takes a little practice, but shouldn't take long. If your tank is PLD, he can afford to mess up some because he has some great mitigation moves. Any one of the following moves -Shield Bash, Aegis Boon, or Sentinel will help you stop/eat a Swipe/Swing if you mess up. But the downside is you don't get him to fall over. If the tank can get that down, the only thing he has to worry about is healing himself after that Glower move that coincounter will sometimes do.

For everyone else. Almost max distance is preferable. Eye of the Beholder can wipe a party if you're not standing in the right spot. When I go as white mage I like to stand just outside of his 100Tonze Swing aoe radius. This way I know I won't get hit by 100Tonze or Eye of the Beholder. If you get positioning down, all you have to worry about is Animal Instinct. If you see Animal Instinct, stop casting. It's very easy for the tank to get hate back after Animal Instinct, but if a BLM mis-fires, it can wipe a party in that 2 second Oh Shit moment. As for slugs, I've never had a real problem with them? If you're a mage in Aurum Vale you should always be carrying Throat Drops. They're cheap and their worth it. 2-5 seconds of silence can be the difference between winning and wiping.

For 100-Tonne Swing run out of range.

For 100-Tonne Swipe either run behind him or block it with Aegis Boon or Divine Veil, or take the hit with Sentinel or Hallowed Ground.

For Glower either run behind him or take it and cure yourself as he uses the ability.

For Animal Instinct you can use Shield Bash to buy some time for yourself and your party to react. Spamming Animal Instinct is about the most uncooperative thing Coincounter can do.

Beware of Amnesia from slugs. But if it affects you, remember that you can in principle dodge all of his one-shot attacks that you might otherwise want to use an ability to mitigate the damage from.

Lag of course is a myth and doesn't exist. But if it did, this is an encounter where it could be an issue, especially late in the fight when all of those slugs pop.

Good luck. I love Coincounter. He's really the only challenge for a tank in Aurum Vale.

What's the party set up?

The LS I run AV with usually goes WAR/PLDx1, WHMx1, BRDx1, BLMx5 for Coincounter. If that helps the OP any.

I wonder if anyone has pin pointed the mechanic behind Animal Instinct.

As a PLD, if I go crazy right off the start, then Animal Instinct will proc within the first 30 seconds.
If I keep generating too much Enmity, then he will spam Animal Instinct and 100 Ton Swing.

(example of starting rotation)(Enmity in Brackets)
Toss Dagger -> Flash/Provoke(900ish) ->Divine Veil->Toss Dagger->Phalanx(350)->Spirits Within for about 850(2125)->Flat Blade Combo 200ish(1100)

So roughly 4500 Enmity in 30ish seconds, Animal Instinct will proc after this for some reason, which is about the time a Thundaga combo will be coming in.

I've heard that if the Tank's Enmity is too low, then he will use Animal Instinct, but it also seems to proc, if it's too high.
So is there some sort of happy medium? Most the videos I've seen, all the DDs just hover at yellow (50%ish).

There's a way you can setup your log to help anticipate his moves making it easier to identify and avoid them. If you don't know how to setup your chatlog here's a guide I did a while back how to set it up called Prepping yourself for Primals. (Should be able to access it w/o forum access, but please let me know if the link doesn't work and I'll copy/paste it for you).

The BIG thing to be aware of is his behavior changes mid-fight, but his TP move frequency is predictable if you learn to anticipate it.

The first 50% his TP moves are drawn out about after every 3-5 Auto Attacks the exception being when he uses Animal Instinct, which he always follows up with Eye of the Beholder or 100-Tonze Swing.

Post 50% when the slugs pop CC will start using moves almost back to back, during this phase it's actually better to stop what your doing and watch his movements. Wait for him to do the weaker TP moves, and strike with one or two WS/JA's then wait to see what he does next (don't worry about your combo timer running out you'll have plenty of time after his next TP move), it's very important you do this because it can make a world of difference on being to avoid 100-Tonze Swing/Swipe/Whatever. The mages will have to control their hate of course post 50%, but in this case it really is better safe than sorry if they can't take him out in less than a minute or two.

In the off-chance you do get stuck in animation lock when he starts 100-Tonze Swing, don't move you're going to get hit by it (You really do need every second to get out of range), instead fire off any of your mitigation moves like Aegis Boon, Divine Veil, Sentinel, or Hallowed Ground and if all of those happen to be down Shield Bash and hope you get lucky Stunning him or Blocking the move.

It might also be beneficial to save Flash/Voke post 50% as well, though uncommon he is not unknown to spam lots of Animal Instincts in a row, and there's nothing worse than him doing it right after you used all your hate abilities. Just remember he follows up with Eye of the Beholder or 100-Tonze Swing so your party needs to pay attention, especially if he makes a run for the mages right after.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

I wonder if anyone has pin pointed the mechanic behind Animal Instinct.

As a PLD, if I go crazy right off the start, then Animal Instinct will proc within the first 30 seconds.
If I keep generating too much Enmity, then he will spam Animal Instinct and 100 Ton Swing.

I've heard that if the Tank's Enmity is too low, then he will use Animal Instinct, but it also seems to proc, if it's too high.
So is there some sort of happy medium? Most the videos I've seen, all the DDs just hover at yellow (50%ish).

---

I've theorized this too, but unfortunately I haven't found a solid method for predicting AI. Though we've been doing alot of AV speedruns lately for relic, and judging from his patterns it seems like the game just picks one move randomly and he'll spam it at a much greater frequency than others. Like one run he'll do tons of AI, others he'll do tons of 100 Tonze Swings or Swipes, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

judging from his patterns it seems like the game just picks one move randomly and he'll spam it at a much greater frequency than others. Like one run he'll do tons of AI, others he'll do tons of 100 Tonze Swings or Swipes, etc.

---

I've noticed this a lot as well. I've been lucky and usually only see one, maybe two, Animal Instinct(s) per run (knock on wood), usually just before or just after 50% hp. It would make a ton of sense though if Judge was correct and it was triggered by too much hate above rest of the party or even the difference between tank and lowest enmity generating player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sounsyy

I've noticed this a lot as well. I've been lucky and usually only see one, maybe two, Animal Instinct(s) per run (knock on wood), usually just before or just after 50% hp. It would make a ton of sense though if Judge was correct and it was triggered by too much hate above rest of the party or even the difference between tank and lowest enmity generating player.

---

That would make sense, because it seems to align with the way ifrit's eruptions work. Developers like to copy code where they can, and it totally makes sense to do so in this case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sounsyy

I've noticed this a lot as well. I've been lucky and usually only see one, maybe two, Animal Instinct(s) per run (knock on wood), usually just before or just after 50% hp. It would make a ton of sense though if Judge was correct and it was triggered by too much hate above rest of the party or even the difference between tank and lowest enmity generating player.

---

I'm going to try to take it easy, and/or just use Warrior for the more damage/less enmity aspect to see if it makes a difference. We had a member running with us that has done this run a lot, and he was so confused. He's like..."I've done this a ton of times, and he never uses Animal Instinct this early, or this much."

You may be on to something. When we do AV with a warrior tank, coincounter almost always does his first and only Animal Instinct after 50%. Usually 30-40% hp. But when I tank as paladin, I almost always see the first animal instinct before the 50% mark - 55-60% hp, and sometimes he'll pop it again in this instance.

Coincounter's moves are probably just random. You can go crazy on hate and never see an AI and you can see them three times in a row.

OP, what his moves are and how to avoid them have mostly been covered. The real key to dodging attacks for coincounter is to basically take turns with him. Coincounter's attack delay is just long enough to get like 1.5 weaponskill animations off. You can still escape if you fire off two, but you'll need to be holding a direction already. You want to react to your combat log and pace your combos. For example, like 30 seconds into the fight with Aegis Boon down:

He does an autoattack->You do fast blade and wait
He does an autoattack->You flat blade and wait
He does 10-tonze-> Flash+Provoke (You almost always have time to do these together)
He does 100-tonze swipe->get behind him and riot blade while moving back to the front

You don't always have to do this, though. Right at the beginning of the fight he's less likely to use 100-tonze moves, so you can go a little nuts. Also if you have Aegis Boon ready you're always safe from one WS as long as you're facing him. Remember to watch his debuffs also since bards will occasionally stun with their combos (you can shield bash also) and give you free attacks.

Also he will always Eye of the Beholder or 100-tonze swing immediately after an animal instinct. The tank should hold his fire as well until you confirm which of the two he's doing. If he's charging Eye, go crazy on hate to make sure he doesn't move afterward. For a 100-tonze, get out of range and go crazy on hate once he falls down.

Remember that you don't have to be like 10000 points over the 2nd on the hate list. You just have to be 1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sounsyy

You may be on to something. When we do AV with a warrior tank, coincounter almost always does his first and only Animal Instinct after 50%. Usually 30-40% hp. But when I tank as paladin, I almost always see the first animal instinct before the 50% mark - 55-60% hp, and sometimes he'll pop it again in this instance.

---

Interesting. I hope it's not just bad luck. But yeah, regularly having him Animal Instinct with only 10-20% health gone gets pretty annoying. Will be doing some more AV tonight, to see.

It doesn't prove anything. But I did the coincounter fight as Warrior, and kept my hate close to the next highest person yellow/red. Coincounter only used Animal Instinct around 25%, which made the fight much easier.

So....who knows.

Get more hp!

Go with Warrior!

Around above 4500hp and you shouldn't get one shot by 100T

5k Hp if you can

at that point fight is easy

Personally, I maintain enmity purely off of Fast/Flat and Flash. I save provoke exclusively for Animal Instinct. If you're good, you'll get back flashing red, and if you're really good, you can Stun Eye of the Beholder with Shield Bash which will likely be his next move after Animal Instinct.

A word of caution though: While he favors Eye of the Beholder after Animal Instinct, it is entirely possible for him to use 100 Tonz Swing instead, at which point you either need to have stunned him with Shield Bash, eat the attack with Aegis Boon or Sentinel, or run like hell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

Personally, I maintain enmity purely off of Fast/Flat and Flash. I save provoke exclusively for Animal Instinct. If you're good, you'll get back flashing red, and if you're really good, you can Stun Eye of the Beholder with Shield Bash which will likely be his next move after Animal Instinct.

---

Yeah I forgot about this. Don't use your Provoke past the first one. You don't need it. Save that for Animal Instinct. Personally I like to pause to confirm EotB on every AI, but if you have Aegis ready you can just block him if he 100 tonzes. I usually run CC on Warrior (but with like 3900 hp in dd/enm gear) so I am in the habit of dodging everything anyway.

Also Warrior gets a single get out of jail free card with Vengeance. FF/Foresight aren't 100% (don't risk a party wipe and speedrun loss on chance moves). Sentinel will usually mitigate enough also but there's no reason to risk that either.

Also there's no reason to stun Eye of the Beholder ever. The ranged classes shouldn't ever get hit by it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

There's a way you can setup your log to help anticipate his moves making it easier to identify and avoid them. If you don't know how to setup your chatlog here's a guide I did a while back how to set it up called Prepping yourself for Primals. (Should be able to access it w/o forum access, but please let me know if the link doesn't work and I'll copy/paste it for you).

The BIG thing to be aware of is his behavior changes mid-fight, but his TP move frequency is predictable if you learn to anticipate it.

The first 50% his TP moves are drawn out about after every 3-5 Auto Attacks the exception being when he uses Animal Instinct, which he always follows up with Eye of the Beholder or 100-Tonze Swing.

Post 50% when the slugs pop CC will start using moves almost back to back, during this phase it's actually better to stop what your doing and watch his movements. Wait for him to do the weaker TP moves, and strike with one or two WS/JA's then wait to see what he does next (don't worry about your combo timer running out you'll have plenty of time after his next TP move), it's very important you do this because it can make a world of difference on being to avoid 100-Tonze Swing/Swipe/Whatever. The mages will have to control their hate of course post 50%, but in this case it really is better safe than sorry if they can't take him out in less than a minute or two.

In the off-chance you do get stuck in animation lock when he starts 100-Tonze Swing, don't move you're going to get hit by it (You really do need every second to get out of range), instead fire off any of your mitigation moves like Aegis Boon, Divine Veil, Sentinel, or Hallowed Ground and if all of those happen to be down Shield Bash and hope you get lucky Stunning him or Blocking the move.

It might also be beneficial to save Flash/Voke post 50% as well, though uncommon he is not unknown to spam lots of Animal Instincts in a row, and there's nothing worse than him doing it right after you used all your hate abilities. Just remember he follows up with Eye of the Beholder or 100-Tonze Swing so your party needs to pay attention, especially if he makes a run for the mages right after.




I've theorized this too, but unfortunately I haven't found a solid method for predicting AI. Though we've been doing alot of AV speedruns lately for relic, and judging from his patterns it seems like the game just picks one move randomly and he'll spam it at a much greater frequency than others. Like one run he'll do tons of AI, others he'll do tons of 100 Tonze Swings or Swipes, etc.

---

This is probably the most comprehensive and helpful description of the fight I've seen. Thank you.

And also thanks to everyone else. You've given me some useful tools to work with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunderz

Get more hp!

Go with Warrior!

Around above 4500hp and you shouldn't get one shot by 100T

5k Hp if you can

at that point fight is easy

---

This is how I've seen a tank regularly do this, stack ~4700 HP on WAR and just take the swing to the face. No idea if it's the most efficient strategy but seems to work nonetheless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kitfox

This is how I've seen a tank regularly do this, stack ~4700 HP on WAR and just take the swing to the face. No idea if it's the most efficient strategy but seems to work nonetheless.

---

That doesn't seem like the WAR would be very effective DMG-wise with that much HP. Where did they stack all that HP, anyway? My personal preference is always to go with DMG output, because it makes the fight shorter, and shorter fights = less chance of death for the rest of the party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catapult

This is probably the most comprehensive and helpful description of the fight I've seen. Thank you.

And also thanks to everyone else. You've given me some useful tools to work with.

---

Glad to be of service.

Oh, One more thing. If you do happen to get an opportunity to use Riot Blade (Like when he falls on his ass after 100-Tonze Swing), by all means use it. It's Def/M.Def down effect really speeds up the kill (especially in a mage burn).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

That doesn't seem like the WAR would be very effective DMG-wise with that much HP. Where did they stack all that HP, anyway? My personal preference is always to go with DMG output, because it makes the fight shorter, and shorter fights = less chance of death for the rest of the party.

---

Tank just need to survive and hold hate

Being one shot is not fun... I've seen it happen several times >.>;

Also the Tanks output is irrelevant in this fight he just needs to survive the 100T moves

Dodging is very risky towards the end of the fight since it triggers the slugs (sound) which silences and amnesia's the mages...which is very well you know.

Its really a full proof plan....just pray the bastard doesn't Spam Animal Instinct

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

That doesn't seem like the WAR would be very effective DMG-wise with that much HP. Where did they stack all that HP, anyway? My personal preference is always to go with DMG output, because it makes the fight shorter, and shorter fights = less chance of death for the rest of the party.

---

Can get the HP from gear+food (apkallu omelette I believe). Having enough HP allows the tank to keep fighting through swing instead of running away = more dmg and more hate = safer for the party as long as you can't be one shot. The only thing that wipes the party with this strategy is trigger happy BLMs that don't stop after AI, or a very bad WHM. Could say it's the "simple way" of fighting Coincounter, tank&spank.

Of course, you can stack DD equipment, run away from Swing, sleep/kill slugs, move around, whatever. But there's a lot more moving parts in the equation. Simple = Less chance to screw up = safer for everyone = reliable.

Not to mention that I haven't seen a tank parse very high numbers compared to the rest of the party anyway, so in my opinion, keeping everyone safe is more important than trying inch a couple of DPS more. But that's just me, I'm sure there are amazing WARs/PLDs out there.

As warrior, I just constantly run between his legs starting around 70%. If he turns around he'll do either swipe or glower; at which point you're already going back through him. If he doesn't turn he'll do AI or swing. I leave enough room both sides to just run straight back to avoid the swing. Using this method I can also avoid glower, taking minimum damage and allowing the whm to deal damage for the majority of the fight instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Musaid

As warrior, I just constantly run between his legs starting around 70%. If he turns around he'll do either swipe or glower; at which point you're already going back through him. If he doesn't turn he'll do AI or swing. I leave enough room both sides to just run straight back to avoid the swing. Using this method I can also avoid glower, taking minimum damage and allowing the whm to deal damage for the majority of the fight instead.

---

I've seen a video of someone tanking him like this. It looked pretty fun. It seems to create a lot of downtime for Coincounter because he won't do anything while he turns to face you.

Just to add, I don't use provoke or flash past the first time; I save both for AI. I can generate enough enmity through damage in just hp gear (full HDL etc.) with blms going all out. This is for under 17m runs, but again as warrior.

I dunno how that's possible. I keep my rotation very tight on coincounter and if I miss a skull sunder or slow down anywhere, then I will lose hate to the BLMs. I run full enmity set for this mob because of it and if I remove even a stonewall earring, I don't generate enough enmity lol. Might be my BLM are a bit more crazy than yours or something.

Coincounter needs to go down in under 2mins, so blms can't really hold back. They need to keep walk mode on and cancel spells when AI is used. I have 165 enmity in the hp set from just Bravura and HDL though, that might play a part.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Musaid

Coincounter needs to go down in under 2mins, so blms can't really hold back. They need to keep walk mode on and cancel spells when AI is used. I have 165 enmity in the hp set from just Bravura and HDL though, that might play a part.

---

Yes, I have all that. My gear is as follows:

Bravura
HDL Armor
Cobalt Plate Belt (Enmity +42)
HDL Flanchard
HDL Gauntlets
White Ravens
Militia Choker
Coral Armillae +1
Electrum Ring +1 x2

That's my tank loadout. My point was that if I swap out even like Enmity+10 on wrists (I said earring before but I meant wrist, same difference), and if I don't hit my rotation perfectly, my BLMs pull hate. At this point they all have relics as well and they are all riding my ass for enmity on this battle. I definitely cannot afford to skip provoke/flash like you claim you can.

Dunno, I've always done it this way since AV was introduced. I never lose hate unless it's after AI and blms are not paying attention.

Collusion flare at the start?

I always straight tank this fight on PLD. Deal with 100tonze swipe by run through, 100 tonze swing with divine veil / aegis / sentinel / rampart / hallowed. Never doubling them up of course. self healing a lot. done plenty of 90 second kills whilst working on relic.

I open with a flash/voke but never use it again unless AI, if he doesnt AI, I dont use them.
(note: im happy to hallowed ground in this fight as I tank miser on WAR for extra DD)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Junpei

(note: im happy to hallowed ground in this fight as I tank miser on WAR for extra DD)

---

Gonna put some emphasis on this part here.

Do NOT be afraid to use Hallowed Ground on Coincounter. Chances are that if you have to use it on Mistress, then you're party is already doomed in the speed run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

Gonna put some emphasis on this part here.

Do NOT be afraid to use Hallowed Ground on Coincounter. Chances are that if you have to use it on Mistress, then you're party is already doomed in the speed run.

---

7 monk 1 paladin miser gogo.

(You probably wouldn't even need Hallowed Ground for that though).

I've done 17min AVs as paladin a couple times but I really don't think it's worth it. It's fun and effective on coincounter but on miser and for the dungeon overall I think warrior is better (at least with monks on miser). For one thing, Warrior doesn't have to block for its biggest hate move, so stuns won't delay your spirits. Go in with some decent damage stats/enmity and it works out fine.

Also all this stuff gets flushed down the terlet in 3 weeks so whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

Also all this stuff gets flushed down the terlet in 3 weeks so whatever.

---

Speed runs yes, the dungeon itself no.

The same strategies may still be usefull to spam the dungeons for gear tokens or whatever they end up using.

Uhhh dalamud is literally blowing everything up how would the dungeon stay the same

Also the entire battle system is changing again so

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

I dunno how that's possible. I keep my rotation very tight on coincounter and if I miss a skull sunder or slow down anywhere, then I will lose hate to the BLMs. I run full enmity set for this mob because of it and if I remove even a stonewall earring, I don't generate enough enmity lol. Might be my BLM are a bit more crazy than yours or something.

---

Musaid's never really lost hate on CC except on the occasional AI because a BLM didn't stop nuking. Our CC fights are usually about 1:30 with 4 of 5 BLMs doing 11-13k dmg each the last BLM is only doing less because of job change. Our BLMs are all fairly equal in gear, if one of your BLMs vastly outgears the others that could be an issue as well.

On paladin this is easy to be honest.
i just start of with the usual rotation to spirits within then hold on abilities so i can eat his 100t swing,
You can spam flat blade combo for hate and then just act according to his swing,100t swing pop aegis or divine veil and outmaneuver save and then wait again, if again use sentinel etc rampart etc all allows a pld to eat a swing relatively easy,
on glower self heal for hate and then just watch,if he spam swing and hes not dead and you run our of cds pop hallowed ground.If he uses hate reset then just pop voke flash ,make sure the blms dont nuke for a few seconds until you have spirits on him again or flat combo and go again,

its just all about timing your abilities but really once you learn them you can just face tank him pretty easy,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sceptre

On paladin this is easy to be honest.
i just start of with the usual rotation to spirits within then hold on abilities so i can eat his 100t swing,
You can spam flat blade combo for hate and then just act according to his swing,100t swing pop aegis or divine veil and outmaneuver save and then wait again, if again use sentinel etc rampart etc all allows a pld to eat a swing relatively easy,
on glower self heal for hate and then just watch,if he spam swing and hes not dead and you run our of cds pop hallowed ground.If he uses hate reset then just pop voke flash ,make sure the blms dont nuke for a few seconds until you have spirits on him again or flat combo and go again,

its just all about timing your abilities but really once you learn them you can just face tank him pretty easy,

---

Tried this yesterday (compared to dodging 100 Ton etc)
It actually worked pretty good, and you can just spam WS's and heals to keep hate up.
Coin Counter went down so fast anyways, you don't need to use all your Damage Reduction buffs.

I posted previously about too much Enmity causing Animal Instinct to proc as well. Since practicing for Time Attack runs, my group does really good damage, and even going all out on PLD for building Enmity it wasn't forcing CC to do Animal Instinct.

(like it was before if I went all out, he would Animal Instinct within the first few seconds. Then continue to spam Animal Instinct)

...So I do think it's possible that if your party (or as a % overall) is too far below your hate then Animal Instinct will proc, the same way as if your party is too close to your hate.