Any plans to include vistas in ARR?

I've been playing a bit of GW2 to pass the time until ARR. I'm enjoying it, it's better than Star Wars i think, but ARR should have no trouble being better than both.

Anyway, GW2 has points of interest in its maps that can be discovered for achievement purposes. One of these interest 'types' is called a vista. It is simple. Arrive there, click on the icon, and a short panoramic CS of the area shows for a moment. It would not seem to take very much dev resource at all, but it is very rewarding.

I'd like to see it in ARR.

I want to play a mmo not a platformer ><

Maybe not quite such an on-the-nose copy of GW2, but something akin to that would be nice. I liked the Holocrons in TOR for the same reason, though those ones were often really annoying in terms of the precise jumping required. A little bit of an exploration puzzle to break up the normal gameplay could be nice, though.

I think getting cutscenes as we enter dungeons and progressing through them is already suitable enough.

So we don't need platforming for anything beyond that >.>

Secondary activities are always welcome, and yes i'm enjoing exploring the whole map in gw2 and jumping puzzle.

I hate to collect view points, way point, point of interests... especially not really a view or interesting in some game...

besides, we already have red pins marked on our 1.0 map that shows it's a special place... just lots good view is not marked.
just looking at the Post Your Best Scenic Shot ~<3 Thread, everyone's "best" are different.
so dev feel free to red pin more of their favorite, but don't add rewards sort of force ppl to do it...

Just because it exists doesnt mean you have to do it.

I think exploration needs to be encouraged more, achievements and the like can do that.

Although better level design can also do that.. lol

FFXIV has lots of "vistas." They just don't have cutscenes, nor do they need them.

I believe what helps make the zones of FFXI and FFXIV initially impressive is that the developers don't directly tell you what is special about them. Just being in a zone (like Ru'Aun Gardens, for instance) can have an effect on a player due to the time it takes to get there and the story missions you have to complete to even be able to enter. It builds up the regions in the players' minds and can only be cheapened if they turn it into a game.

The dev teams for both games would do best to continue to stay out of making genuine player curiosity and interest something that can be numerated with achievements.

Yoshida has already said we will have to discover the map by exploration. I can't imagine there wont being POI achievements.

Sounds like something from Assassin's Creed.

A puzzle based system seems more FF to me..

Go to location >> watch a CS >> produce solution based on info in CS
They have used them in lots of FF's before..

We get shown something (it should have lot of solutions but each one is specific to the CS we get) then we are challenged to solve it, Ok guides will be out in weeks but i'd prefer to spend the time cracking them myself.

Stepping stone pattern, this should go from a simple 5x5 grid up to 50x50, SE could easily throw up 100's of paths
Demon walls asks a riddle about FFXIV law or answer a riddle or tell them what colour?(lol) something was in the image/verse it told you in the CS
Flashing colour pattern Using elements in BS?,
levitating stones moving up down right left that you can only stand on so long ,
Getting down a passage way like we did with mobs and exploring but with rotating statues.

These could just be for achievements or some used to unlock areas that save time travelling once you have done it and got the Stone to bypass the area (only works for you not a party).
Or access to ancient hidden temps to regenerate Anima or do other puzzles to get potions, foods, items for GC's, or just filled with mobs that are different 100% amune to X damage when green, or can only be damaged from the back with it's shield razed, puzzle based mobs :D
This would have to be balanced so it wasn't something that became needed for dungeons/end game, as not everyone likes puzzles.

Or maybe it unlocks some specific items the more you have.. lots of ways it could be done

FFXI purists. Rejecting change and innovativation since 2003.

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Originally Posted by Holland

FFXI purists. Rejecting change and innovativation since 2003.

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If you're going to be an idiot at least get the date correct (FFXI came out in 2002) and also realize in 2003 MMOs still were actually RPGs rather than platforming games. Platforming puzzles isn't even part of FF largely, most puzzles are actually lacking in the platforming and generally of a red light-green light design.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Platforming puzzles isn't even part of FF largely, most puzzles are actually lacking in the platforming and generally of a red light-green light design.

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Quite a few recent moments in FF you could use an automatic jump to get to unique palces not required to visit. Not quite a platformer - and they could do that again in 14 - but I'd really like hidden and unique places to encourage exploration. SE in the past has encouraged exploration this way (puzzles, "sort of" jumping) - they should do it again.

Next part not directed at you :P :

The vista panning camera thing is not against FF logic - they do it in cinematics all the time.

"cheapen the experience is illogical" They never said you cant get your own photos from your own angles.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Quite a few recent moments in FF you could use an automatic jump to get to unique palces not required to visit. Not quite a platformer - and they could do that again in 14 - but I'd really like hidden and unique places to encourage exploration. SE in the past has encouraged exploration this way (puzzles, "sort of" jumping) - they should do it again.

Also the vista panning camera thing is not against FF logic - they do it in cinematics all the time.

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Correct, they have you auto jump to another spot, but that's not what the puzzle is about usually -- that's just jumping over a gap where there's no walkway, i.e Northern Crater in FFVII or the ancient ruins in FFV.

FF's puzzles have generally been flipping switches, sliding tiles/rocks, avoiding obstacles, fiddling with spheres to make something happen, fiddling with animal/monster placement and fiddling with timed (insert object here) and so on, rarely do you go jumping all over the place to clear a puzzle. I personally find the "rejecting change" comment funny because said people who say that also said 2.0 should mimick SWTOR and TERA, both failing MMOs -- SE doesn't need to add things just because x MMO does it, this is why MMOs tend to fail, just copying rather than doing their own thing.

As someone said earlier, XIV already has this kind of 'vista' system, it's just not in the similar design and doesn't require platforming to get to so I don't see anyone rejecting something the game you're playing already does.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Correct, they have you auto jump to another spot, but that's not what the puzzle is about usually -- that's just jumping over a gap where there's no walkway, i.e Northern Crater in FFVII or the ancient ruins in FFV.

FF's puzzles have generally been flipping switches, sliding tiles/rocks, avoiding obstacles, fiddling with spheres to make something happen, fiddling with animal/monster placement and fiddling with timed (insert object here) and so on, rarely do you go jumping all over the place to clear a puzzle. I personally find the "rejecting change" comment funny because said people who say that also said 2.0 should mimick SWTOR and TERA, both failing MMOs -- SE doesn't need to add things just because x MMO does it, this is why MMOs tend to fail, just copying rather than doing their own thing.

As someone said earlier, XIV already has this kind of 'vista' system, it's just not in the similar design and doesn't require platforming to get to so I don't see anyone rejecting something the game you're playing already does.

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Yeah the auto jump doesnt really count as a puzzle XD but I still liked what they lead to - right now its "what you see is what you get" no point to examine the funny looking rock until a quest npc says so.

And I didnt quote Elexia's whole comment because I didnt feel like talking about good change bad change lol, as you point out its not just as "because they did it" though there are some people that need reminded that "because they did it" doesnt mean we cant do it either.

The Hildibrand (SP? I forgot how to spell it XD) quest has a pretty good scope shot and I really liked that view, its something I couldnt of gotten normally because of camera restrictions (the one done near camp horizon).

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Originally Posted by Elexia

If you're going to be an idiot at least get the date correct (FFXI came out in 2002) and also realize in 2003 MMOs still were actually RPGs rather than platforming games. Platforming puzzles isn't even part of FF largely, most puzzles are actually lacking in the platforming and generally of a red light-green light design.

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Come on Elexia, relax a bit. No one is asking for a copy, if you take the time to read a bit, some people are asking for something similar, with the final fantasy feel.

And /sigh, I said 2003 because I can only speak Spanish and English, I have no idea how resistant to change and innovation the EU or JP players are, but there is no question that (and this mostly happens with people that have only played XI and XIV and no other MMO's) usually, any kind of suggestion or request to add something similar that X MMO has it is always shut down with comments like "we already have this, we don't need it changed or improved" and many other variations of that.

Have a great day!

The idea of vistas in fine and all but the ones in GW2 for example aren't all that impressive really.

I would rather visit an impressive vista because it's fantastic to look at; not because it's part of an achievement that rewards gear at 100% completion of the map.

It's just kinda sad that people need a reason to explore the in game world outside of the fact that there could be some down right awesome areas to see.

It's not that I am resistant to change; I would say that I just don't understand the point in being rewarded for visiting an area in the game. It's odd; like giving your dog a treat for sitting on a specific tile in the kitchen or something.

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Originally Posted by SirOleas

The idea of vistas in fine and all but the ones in GW2 for example aren't all that impressive really.

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Opinion. I personally think they look pretty great.

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Originally Posted by SirOleas

It's not that I am resistant to change; I would say that I just don't understand the point in being rewarded for visiting an area in the game. It's odd; like giving your dog a treat for sitting on a specific tile in the kitchen or something.

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Crafting 10000 times to get a special uber aparatus isn't weird? :P

More or less I think of these points of interest as more like "find me if you can" little scavenger hunts.

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Originally Posted by Donimo

I believe what helps make the zones of FFXI and FFXIV initially impressive is that the developers don't directly tell you what is special about them. Just being in a zone (like Ru'Aun Gardens, for instance) can have an effect on a player due to the time it takes to get there and the story missions you have to complete to even be able to enter. It builds up the regions in the players' minds and can only be cheapened if they turn it into a game.

The dev teams for both games would do best to continue to stay out of making genuine player curiosity and interest something that can be numerated with achievements.

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Absolutely brilliantly put.

If you're interested in exploring the world, you don't need to be "coaxed" or "bribed" into doing it. Just go out and explore. An explorer explores for the sheer enjoyment of it. There's no "reward" or "pay-off" needed for it. The "achievement" is the exploration and discovery itself.

I don't know where this whole trend started of people needing to have achievements or rewards attached to everything in order for it to be "worth doing", but it's pretty sad, in my opinion.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...96834747_n.jpg

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

I don't know where this whole trend started of people needing to have achievements or rewards attached to everything in order for it to be "worth doing", but it's pretty sad, in my opinion.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...96834747_n.jpg

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Oh it's obvious when this trend started MMO wise, since one can't really say the achievement/trophy system from 360/PS3 is likely the start, since people were perfectly ok with exploring worlds without achievement systems in MMOs for years xD.

We have vista allready, go to the desire location >> put the 3rd person view>> scroll back a bit >> and do a 360 with the camara. Great view if you do it right

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

We have vista allready, go to the desire location >> put the 3rd person view>> scroll back a bit >> and do a 360 with the camara. Great view if you do it right

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Allowing SE to do some would give much better camera shots. Hildibrand quest, you will get an awesome view of western thanalan that isnt normally possible.

But yeah there are some great shots obtainable normally.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Crafting 10000 times to get a special uber aparatus isn't weird? :P

More or less I think of these points of interest as more like "find me if you can" little scavenger hunts.

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Fair enough. I can't really argue that other than the fact that I have not gone after luminary tools lol.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

I don't know where this whole trend started of people needing to have achievements or rewards attached to everything in order for it to be "worth doing", but it's pretty sad, in my opinion.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...96834747_n.jpg

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Agree completely. This is how I still play all my games. Never understood this need to be congratulated repeatedly for every little thing.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I think getting cutscenes as we enter dungeons and progressing through them is already suitable enough.

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Except when most groups make you skip said cutscenes, they might as well not be there...

I was fond of holocrons due to the fact that they introduces you to the lore of TOR in a way. You could read up on it at your leisure and catch up, as it were.

I can get into vistas, though I would focus it more around historic/important places in each zone. XI would have benefited from a makeshift memorial outside Garliage Citadel to explain why it matters. Could also pull something Gameworks used to do for the Lunar games and have lore and history explained in a library, but with the MMO twist of it starting a sub-quest or objective to see that place so that everything is revealed to you or comes together. This is assuming we get some sort of codex, of course.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I can get into vistas, though I would focus it more around historic/important places in each zone. XI would have benefited from a makeshift memorial outside Garliage Citadel to explain why it matters. Could also pull something Gameworks used to do for the Lunar games and have lore and history explained in a library, but with the MMO twist of it starting a sub-quest or objective to see that place so that everything is revealed to you or comes together. This is assuming we get some sort of codex, of course.

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Although i'm not much into achievements, i recognise they are going to be a part of the game-play no matter what. From the achievement standpoint, lots of 'points of interest' can be added, but even without some kind of reward, i think the idea is still valid. A short CS broadens the viewing range of an area, or for those who like optional reading (eg Skyrims books), locations providing lore background would add a great deal to the area.

I think that having some kind of 'Codex' to save gathered information to / make a check list of need not be attributed to 'achievements' (although it will). It would simply be a good UI decision to help a player stay organised on this aspect of their adventure.

When I think of that I think of Assassin's Creed and getting viewpoints and it rotating the camera around to view the surrounding area. I always found that to be neat and it would a neat little miscellaneous feature for ARR.

Of course it could be a clickable option so these babies that dislike cutscenes won't be "forced" to watch it.

I can't imagine it would be terribly hard to do anyway.

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

Although i'm not much into achievements, i recognise they are going to be a part of the game-play no matter what. From the achievement standpoint, lots of 'points of interest' can be added, but even without some kind of reward, i think the idea is still valid. A short CS broadens the viewing range of an area, or for those who like optional reading (eg Skyrims books), locations providing lore background would add a great deal to the area.

I think that having some kind of 'Codex' to save gathered information to / make a check list of need not be attributed to 'achievements' (although it will). It would simply be a good UI decision to help a player stay organised on this aspect of their adventure.

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When you say "optional reading" FFXIII-2 came to mind. There were some riveting story elements that were otherwise unclear without the Datalog. One should never have to read anything beyond the game's main focus, but adding some side info can only help.

I'm in favor of this idea. There doesn't need to be platforming at all (although I think it'd be kinda fun), and what he's proposing is such a small, brief distraction from the main game that it's really not something people should bash. In FFX there was an NPC you could talk to in the Calm Lands that would explain the canyon you needed to cross to get to Gagazet, and during his explanation there was a brief cutscene where the camera soared over the canyon. It was not difficult to get to, and it didn't take much time to watch, but improved my perspective of the Calm Lands greatly.

Edit: I forgot about the Goblin Footprint in XI. If we had something like that - a spot on the ground we could check or some other thing to interact with - it wouldn't be at all difficult to reach. It could be at the entrances to each zone. We can already re-watch cutscenes in our inn, but sometimes you just want to take in the sights while you're in the area.

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

I've been playing a bit of GW2 to pass the time until ARR. I'm enjoying it, it's better than Star Wars i think, but ARR should have no trouble being better than both.

Anyway, GW2 has points of interest in its maps that can be discovered for achievement purposes. One of these interest 'types' is called a vista. It is simple. Arrive there, click on the icon, and a short panoramic CS of the area shows for a moment. It would not seem to take very much dev resource at all, but it is very rewarding.

I'd like to see it in ARR.

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im getting my copy 2 day id like play along side you

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Originally Posted by Keres

Maybe not quite such an on-the-nose copy of GW2, but something akin to that would be nice. I liked the Holocrons in TOR for the same reason, though those ones were often really annoying in terms of the precise jumping required. A little bit of an exploration puzzle to break up the normal gameplay could be nice, though.

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I thought the Holocrons were the best part of that game honestly. I would love to see something similar be implemented for ARR. Searching for small things that are hidden all around the world and that are useful, but not so good that you HAVE to go get them is such a great idea imo. It really adds a new dimension to exploring imo.

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

I want to play a mmo not a platformer ><

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No one said you had to participate in said event or action. That is solely for those weird people who will do anything to unlock an achievement.

Sounds cool! Exploring is not everyones priority of course, but I would definitely like this.

I'd love that. It's not like it will make the game unbalanced by adding a bit of obstacle coursing to the game. Games that make you go off the beaten path is always a nice touch.

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Originally Posted by dragorian

im getting my copy 2 day id like play along side you

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I'm on Isle of Janthir with the same name as here. Currently running around Caledon Forest region.
... just in case anyone else happens to be on the same server.