I want all raid type areas that are none story related to be randomly generated with mobs and ways of going through it, so there is no standard or ''We have to do it this way the guide say's so!'' <-- That was one of the things I hated about 11. Sub-Jobs were also a problem like that. most of the time it ruined the game for people wanting to try something new or mix it up but the end game ended up being /nin or GTFO. Every run of Dyna was the same pretty much I would like to see the end game not set in stone or guides. What do you think? For it? Against it?
End Game hopes & wants
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03-30-2011, 09:20 PMGrimmEnd Game hopes & wants
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03-30-2011, 09:35 PMDubont....the subjobs that became the "norm" were so for a reason. If I saw a War/whm wanting to party, you bet your arse that I would say no. That setup is useless. Blm/Sam? LOL k, go have fun soloing. As far as your endgame suggestion...no...we don't need WoW-ish endgame. Raids are far from fun, I've been there...and hated it. Story related endgame is the way to go. Otherwise..it's not endgame...b/c it's not part of the main game...get it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimm
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03-30-2011, 09:43 PMGrimmI did not say WoW styled end game but I want something you don't need guides for, something you can just jump in with friends and give it a try. Similar to Nyzul but elaborated into something better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
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03-30-2011, 09:44 PMKilta_Firelotus
war/whm mini pld.
blm/sam ya staff ws are not that weak. More so with spirit taker.... >.> that was over powered. My b/f meleed whm when we duo'ed and he use it alot to get is mp back nearly to full that meany XD
dub. ima guess you quit ffxi long ago. You missing out on stuff your talking about.
and um..... dynamis was kinda the same as a raid in WoW. You go through mobs to kill a mini boss in an instanced location.
Most ffxi end game was like a WoW style raid if you really compare the 2. -
03-30-2011, 09:46 PMKilta_Firelotuskinda like MMM? pretty muxch players would create instanced dungeons and based on design different mobs would be in it. Alot of japanese did it. I tried one I made solo. It was very fun :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimm
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03-30-2011, 09:51 PMDubontwar/whm is not a min PLD. War/whm is a gimp DD with gimp def and even worse healing magic. War/nin is obviously better for DD and tankingQuote:
Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus
blm/sam? Really?! lol you're going to argue this? If a blm is meleeing, he's doing something wrong. Can you say TP feeding? A blm is a DD, which is quite different than a whm. A blm deals it's damage with spells. If a BLM is meleeing, he is taking time away from his casting...which is not cool. Whm does actually have a DD aspect to it. Hexa Strike was awesome...but I'm pretty sure that BLM didn't get that. If a blm is subbing anything other than a mage (or nin for early soloing), unless specifically asked to by the party leader, then something is severely wrong with that person.
Also, I didn't "quite" FFXI, but I haven't played since July of 2010.
FFXI endgame wasn't WoW style in the since that 11's endgame was actually...end game. It was the end of the story. Wow's? Not so much. Also...dynamis took quite a bit of strategy, planning and knowledge of mob spawns on the map. WoW raids? lol not so much...not at all... -
03-30-2011, 09:53 PMGrimmYes something similar to that. I hate doing something new in a game and find out everyone else is reading off of a guide. I enjoyed doing quests in FFXI without any guides and such all of these people bitch and moan about immersion nothing kills immersion like hearing ''Hold on let me pull up the guide.''Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus
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03-30-2011, 10:07 PMLamhirh
i would personaly liked.. no pronounced endgame. but i am sandbox freak, and never grew out of playing with LEGO <_<.
i want the game to be open ended, with living story, and open worlds. i know its somewhat impossible unless we get stuff like open wolrd pvp, some wars between city-states and so... but still, its nice to dream about ^^ -
03-30-2011, 10:11 PMNepheraDynamic encounters? Interesting proposal, not sure how easy to balance but hey, worth a shot. now when you say no story do you mean none at all? Or with their own unique ones that are independant of anything we already have. None at all probably wouldnt work, it'd feel rather lazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimm
Also yeah no, subjobs were terrible because
A) The grind was horrendous
B) subjobs were pretty much required to even get invites
C) The required subjob may have been something a player had no interest in playing at all. You really dont have to do that in almost any other game, its actually rather unreasonable to expect someone to do that.
Catering to this sort of attitude is a problem. I'm sorry to use you as an example Dubont. But it comes across as unfriendly. Generally if people want to pick an odd pairing they will try and make it work within the system, or they just dont have time to level another class to half of their main and being excluded from everything will make them quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
edit: I will concede that XI was not exactly balanced for this (it was actually pretty terribly balanced if /nin was the ultimate secondary), but it has already driven off most of the players who wanted to bulk the norm anyway. Yet it seems like it was designed with this in mind and it just got out of hand.
err... I've never played wow but i dont think it has dynamic raids like he suggested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
I dont like raiding much myself but there is a market for that sort of thing, not to mention XI had raids too.
and uhh.. I dont ...quite..follow. The Disgaea series has a pretty robust selection of things to do outside of what could be considered the main game and those are typically encapsulated by the term endgame..Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
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03-30-2011, 10:13 PMZkieve
IDK about the rest, but a FFXI type of endgame without dynamis and super huge respawn time for HNMS (24-36h no thanks) would be perfect for me.
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03-30-2011, 10:15 PMJinko
I like the idea of random generated dungeons, Moblin Maze Monger in 11 (although not end game) was a pretty good idea and I hope they bring it over to FF14 eventually.
Well 11 had instanced raids in the form of Nyzel and Assult, I think its the only way to go for true end game content.Quote:
no...we don't need WoW-ish endgame. Raids are far from fun, I've been there...and hated it
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03-30-2011, 10:17 PMDubont
"Catering to this sort of attitude is a problem. I'm sorry to use you as an example Dubont. But it comes across as unfriendly. Generally if people want to pick an odd pairing they will try and make it work within the system, or they just dont have time to level another class to half of their main and being excluded from everything will make them quit."
Maybe, but humans like efficiency and if someone tried something and it worked, then fine, let them use it, but if it just doesn't work...I shouldn't be forced to let them use it in MY party. Let's look at Sam. If you want to go...Sam/war, awesome. Sam/thf? Awesome. Same/drg? With the right gear, very awesome!! Sam/whm? Sorry...wut? Sam/blm? What are you going to do...stone 1 them to death?
"and uhh.. I dont ...quite..follow. The Disgaea series has a pretty robust selection of things to do outside of what could be considered the main game and those are typically encapsulated by the term endgame.."
I see what you're saying. FFXI also had endgame NMs that weren't technically "endgame," but they were referred to as endgame because most people didn't do them until they had finished the story...the actually endgame. I guess the NMs should be somewhat of an aftergame event. -
03-30-2011, 10:24 PMJinko
I duno why you guys are even bringing up subjobs, it doesn't apply and unless SE soes something stupid to the armory system its not going to.
Of course people could still frown on others for using the wrong skill set ups in FF14, having the wrong stats in the wrong places, and I would probably have to agree with Dubont on this as nobody wants a gimp player in their party holding them back. -
03-30-2011, 10:32 PMNepheraWell ultimately nobody can force you to play with someone you dont want to play with, I mean they cant actually invade your party, but the problem is the more the system supports one particular build it also stifles the freedom of that awesome sam/thf and that sam/drg that worked so hard to get the gear he needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
Like you know what i'm saying? The system should encourage people to give other people chances. Cooperation and compromise and the like. Take champions online for instance: I never ever know what i'm getting when i invite a new player to a party other than the role they tell me they play (Tank,damage dealer, healer, crowd control) and my decision to play with them further is influenced predominantly by the way that they play and how well they play, not how they built their character. If they flat out suck, welp I just dont invite them again. (Well i'm pretty lenient, they'd have to suck and also be a jerk.)
Ah ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
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03-30-2011, 10:51 PMAbriael
This idea sounds nice on paper (as long as it's something on the side, and not the MAIN endgame), but it has a serious implementation problem.
Endgame bosses in all games are fun encounters because they have been carefully balanced and tested. Introducing dynamically generated ones (unless they are just picked up from a list of pre-made bosses, and then they aren't really dynamic anymore), implies that they would have to be extremely generic, because of course it would be impossible to balance and test perfectly every cimbination of variables, if they were anywhere complex.
This means that most encounters would be a simple tank and spank against a mob that just hits hard and has lots of HP, and spams some sort of powerful special attack with generic results.
Honestly I'm not so sure, unless Se manages to pull out something I can't really imagine, that this warrants the required resources.
I'd rather have a less generic and more polished endgame, and then, when that's well rooted and in place, they can tink about different solutions. -
03-31-2011, 12:18 AMXatsh
Having raid events I am ok with, having pointless raids (no story) is really fail, and having all raids as the only endgame event is also fail.
As for random generated dungeons as others said something MMM could work I guess was sorta random, Einherjar the mobs where random.
As much as people complained about ffxi being OMG too hardcore in endgame after the release of ToaU I think FFXI had probally the most ballanced endgame of anygame out there. a ton of 30min instances, 100min instances, World Random Spawns, Forced Spawns, 3hr raids, 2hr raids, 45mins raids... basically something for everyone more or less. And endgame like this honestly would be perfect gives the hardcore ppl something do but has the majority focused around the 30min-1hr point for the casuals.
As for class requirements there will still be requirements, especially if SE removes the armory system like the majority are demanding. You will have your best DD setups, Best Tank setups, Best Support Setups, and Best Healing Setups. And it will become law after awhile in endgame just like every other mmo. Eventually everything will be cookie cuttered. -
03-31-2011, 12:40 AMbird
I really enjoyed instanced low-men events from ffxi like limbus, and znm for popped nms. If ffxiv can design something similar with exclusive gear and gear upgrade items, I would love it!
Eta: bcnms were great too, but I guess that's similar to faction nms. Tho the item drop rates could use a little tweaking. :P -
03-31-2011, 01:59 AMGrimmWith it's own mini story that can tie into the main story something like an evil engineer from the empire has constructed a moving labyrinth that you must find your way through. It can also have interesting things like trap doors that make you fall back to a previous level/area, Poison rooms where you must defeat mobs under the poison effect to open the next door., MP drain rooms, ect.. that way it's different every time and it\s not the same route each time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephera
Edit: They can also make it so the mobs = tough for the parties strength once you enter. That way it can be considered low level content as well. But of course the real fun is not till you are at Rank Cap. -
03-31-2011, 02:46 AMGriss
Something that i can get together with my friends and shell mates to do on a weekly or daily basis for fun and profit. that's my hope for end game. Don't particularly care what form it comes in. Right now the free spawn Nm's are some what scratching that itch but more variety is always welcome.
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03-31-2011, 02:52 AMLock_HyurBINGO This^Quote:
Originally Posted by Xatsh
Im glad someone else has a brain. Im tired of these posts I see with people thinking there will be endless possibilities to be a unique butterfly. No.. no unique butterfly. There will be 'best' setups of certain abilities and certain gear to maximize/minimize effects within a certain class. -
03-31-2011, 04:59 AMKeith_Dragoon
I see where you are going with this Grimm and I agree, I was VERY annoyed with my Abyssea LS when told "I don't wanna move into the new zones until its been broken down on wiki..." I could not say anything after that, on the inside I was punting tarus and kittens but I said nothing.
I would love to see more nyzul, assault, MMM, and other similar things in XIV. -
03-31-2011, 05:59 AMJibe
I'm really hoping for low-man instanced stuff. I really enjoyed Assault, Nyzul, Salvage. Things that require tactics, and maybe even a bit of luck.
For me, low-man (like 2-8) members is the way to go. But, as long as SE makes end game require skill, planning, and tactics instead of endless 1 spamming and zerging I will be happy.
As far as randomization, there are ways to randomize the encounters and not make mobs generic. You can do things like randomize mob layout, which families of mobs spawn, and other puzzle type elements or status effect elements like previous poster mentioned. -
03-31-2011, 09:20 PMGrimm
There are ways of making the mobs feel different if they really worked on it that is. But what about some of your ideas?