A New Synthesis Mechanic

I have been crafting on culinarian lately and I find the lack of simplistic recipes unnerving.

For grinding exp I have to rely on crafting fish into sand, and that makes me sad, because when I'm levelling Culinarian, I want to feel like one.

But the recipes that would make me feel like I really am a chef take too many ingredients that grinding for exp on them is purely inefficient.

So I devised a new crafting mechanic.

Take the recipe for Blood Currant Tarts for an example:

1: Blood Currants
2: Maple Sugar
3: Salted Butter
4: Pie Dough
5: Sun Lemon
6: Natron
7: Gridanian Walnut
8: Mineral Water

As you can see, its completely unrealistic to expect to grind on something like that.
First thing that came to my head was for them to simplify recipes like they did for every other crafter, However a lot of people like this, and it can be nice to make you feel immersed as a high-quality chef.

However the system I devised would keep the best of both worlds, what I am suggesting is a crafting mechanic where each recipe has a set of simple minimum required ingredients and a set of optional ingredients to increase quality/HQ% chance.

So let's look at the recipe for Blood Currant Tarts again but with my new system in mind:

1: Blood Currants (required)
2: Maple Sugar (required)
3: Salted Butter (required)
4: Pie Dough (required)
5: Mineral Water (required)
6: Natron (required)
7: Sun Lemon (optional - HQ+5%)
8: Gridanian Walnut (optional - HQ+5%)

As you can see the ability to use this recipe to grind exp increases, however it keeps its complexity for those not grinding exp and rather, grinding them for money/quality.

However this idea can be applied to all the other crafts too and wouldn't necessarily have to apply to every single recipe where it makes sense to be basic.

They can also add items to the already simplistic recipes of other crafts as optional flairs for higher quality.

If there's anything you don't understand, let me know and please discuss with your thoughts and ideas! :D

I'm currently farming up materials for Culinary, and I disagree on changing how it is. There are single item options, or a few with less ingredients (such as 6 of the same item, instead of 6 separate items). The items in question require a lot, because the end result has such a good bonus.

I suggest you take up fishing, or just burn through leves.

I actually prefer the current setup for culinary over other DoH because looking at it from a "realistic standpoint" it makes sense given how much ingredients you get in general and can find -- the "simplified change" to others made sense because a lot of it required you to basically level every other DoH to do one synth on the main DoH you're trying to level.

Culinarian is basically self-sufficient in that manner, especially if you level DoL so you don't have to buy your ingredients.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

I'm currently farming up materials for Culinary, and I disagree on changing how it is. There are single item options, or a few with less ingredients (such as 6 of the same item, instead of 6 separate items). The items in question require a lot, because the end result has such a good bonus.

I suggest you take up fishing, or just burn through leves.

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If you didn't read my post at all I'll remind you.

I'm grinding on fish for the efficiency of being able to grind without the hassle of needing to farm or buy stacks of 8 separate ingredients. But what I'm getting at is, that doesn't make me feel like a Culinarian, it's bad for my immersion into a job I should enjoy. I've been making nothing but sand the whole way.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I actually prefer the current setup for culinary over other DoH because looking at it from a "realistic standpoint" it makes sense given how much ingredients you get in general and can find -- the "simplified change" to others made sense because a lot of it required you to basically level every other DoH to do one synth on the main DoH you're trying to level.

Culinarian is basically self-sufficient in that manner, especially if you level DoL so you don't have to buy your ingredients.

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Indeed but to quote you on realism.

Realism is what fuels my idea more than anything. you don't need lemons and nuts in real life to make a currant tart.
But you'd add them if you wanted quality.

The crafting ingredients for recipes as a whole would not change, but it would be more dynamic and realistic.

I got my Luminary pan off of turning fish into sand.. I am such an amazing chef
At least when you DO make good thing like lava toad legs or crowned cakes they sell for a LOT

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Originally Posted by Zhyrios

If you didn't read my post at all I'll remind you.

I'm grinding on fish for the efficiency of being able to grind without the hassle of needing to farm or buy stacks of 8 separate ingredients. But what I'm getting at is, that doesn't make me feel like a Culinarian, it's bad for my immersion into a job I should enjoy. I've been making nothing but sand the whole way.

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Yes, and there are items clearly in place for spamming on for EXP. That one you listed is not one of them.

You say it ruins your immersion...yet it's more accurate to cook in real life (lol). How delicious would a pie be in the real world if the chef left out half the ingredients because he wanted to "get better at making pies?"

You obviously know nothing about cooking

my question is have you every actually cooked anything before?

You need the Natron in there or your Tart won't look like a pastry...baking powder, you don't need it?

It would be better to add somethign more like a 'spice market' where we can buy most of the crap we need. the biggest pain i have is collecting all those exotic ingredients >.>;;

I miss the old ways when all crafts looked like the one OP listed.

It would be interesting if there were wildcard slots like in the OP for all the recipes. And you could experiment with the recipe to figure out what combination of extra items would boost the HQ most. It could add a little depth to the otherwise simplified crafting system.

blood currant- bought from npc (1310g)
maple sugar- crafted from maple syrup, which is bought from npc (11g)
salted butter - bought from npc (90g)
pie dough - crafted from sunset wheat flower (65g), salted butter (see above), table salt (11g), mineral water (60g)
sun lemon - bought from NPC (897g) or gathered
natron - bought from npc (220g)
gridanian walnut - gathered
mineral water - bought from npc (60g)




the only thing holding you back is the gridanian walnut. if you don't want to spend time gathering those (they're pretty easy), check the wards. if they're not plentiful enough to support your grind, you can always just go pick up leves, craft, abandon, and pick them up again... which is pretty much what everyone else does to grind.

maybe you just picked a really poor example, but try to keep in mind that most any other craft will find it unrealistic to grind on whole finished items to level. they're generally stuck grinding parts which they then NPC.

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Originally Posted by tymora

You need the Natron in there or your Tart won't look like a pastry...baking powder, you don't need it?

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In my country that's in the dough.

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Originally Posted by fusional

blood currant- bought from npc (1310g)
maple sugar- crafted from maple syrup, which is bought from npc (11g)
salted butter - bought from npc (90g)
pie dough - crafted from sunset wheat flower (65g), salted butter (see above), table salt (11g), mineral water (60g)
sun lemon - bought from NPC (897g) or gathered
natron - bought from npc (220g)
gridanian walnut - gathered
mineral water - bought from npc (60g)




the only thing holding you back is the gridanian walnut. if you don't want to spend time gathering those (they're pretty easy), check the wards. if they're not plentiful enough to support your grind, you can always just go pick up leves, craft, abandon, and pick them up again... which is pretty much what everyone else does to grind.

maybe you just picked a really poor example, but try to keep in mind that most any other craft will find it unrealistic to grind on whole finished items to level. they're generally stuck grinding parts which they then NPC.

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oh cool only 277497 gil plus an eternity farming walnuts to finally get around to grinding at 27+ :P

Two hundred seventy thousand gil can be farmed in approximately two hours farming the right kind of ore, or farming bomb ash.

I can clear five hundred thousand gil in a day with a few hours of mining. (o.O ) Hell, I have nearly a stack of darksteel ore +1 that I have mined in three days at about four hours a day. On Durandal, that is valued at a little over three million gil.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

Two hundred seventy thousand gil can be farmed in approximately two hours farming the right kind of ore, or farming bomb ash.

I can clear five hundred thousand gil in a day with a few hours of mining. (o.O ) Hell, I have nearly a stack of darksteel ore +1 that I have mined in three days at about four hours a day. On Durandal, that is valued at a little over three million gil.

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is everyone as rich as you? everyone seems to think I'm a noob and must be only asking for this kind of system because i suck, right. unlike alot of people I'm not selfish like that, I'm proposing a system like this for the good of everyone, I have plenty of gil and it's always running, but you shouldn't have to fork out near 300k gil to grind a few levels on something.
What about the new players?

a system like this could go great places, its basically exactly the same as the current system, but more dynamic and realistic.

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Originally Posted by Vassteel1

You obviously know nothing about cooking

my question is have you every actually cooked anything before?

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Actually yes, I cook a lot, I also know that you don't have to add exotic ingredients to every single thing you cook to get an average and good tasting meal - but when you do then it's special and extra delicious. This is realism, and the exact same system I'm proposing.

Have YOU ever cooked anything before, and I mean actually cooked using your brain, not just followed the guide in a recipe book word for word.

I leveled up cooking making actual items and it's not bad at all once you know where everything is and actually look at multiple recipes. You just picked a horrible item to XP off of.

Cornbread is a little under blood currant tarts but everything is bought from NPC.

After that Scrambled Eggs and Acorn Cookies are available with ingredients you can buy or that gatherers get by the boatload and should be cheap.

Also FYI you may spend money on making those tarts but you could easily make a profit as blood currant tarts are the 2nd tier magic attack food and you can price them above the cost to make but below the pastry fish/crownd cakes.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

I miss the old ways when all crafts looked like the one OP listed.

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http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/1042979_o.gif

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Originally Posted by Zhyrios

oh cool only 277497 gil plus an eternity farming walnuts to finally get around to grinding at 27+ :P

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WHAAAAAAT? You actually have to put work into a crafting class?

THIS IS BULLCRAP!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zhyrios

I have been crafting on culinarian lately and I find the lack of simplistic recipes unnerving.

For grinding exp I have to rely on crafting fish into sand, and that makes me sad, because when I'm levelling Culinarian, I want to feel like one.

But the recipes that would make me feel like I really am a chef take too many ingredients that grinding for exp on them is purely inefficient.

So I devised a new crafting mechanic.

Take the recipe for Blood Currant Tarts for an example:

1: Blood Currants
2: Maple Sugar
3: Salted Butter
4: Pie Dough
5: Sun Lemon
6: Natron
7: Gridanian Walnut
8: Mineral Water

As you can see, its completely unrealistic to expect to grind on something like that.
First thing that came to my head was for them to simplify recipes like they did for every other crafter, However a lot of people like this, and it can be nice to make you feel immersed as a high-quality chef.

However the system I devised would keep the best of both worlds, what I am suggesting is a crafting mechanic where each recipe has a set of simple minimum required ingredients and a set of optional ingredients to increase quality/HQ% chance.

So let's look at the recipe for Blood Currant Tarts again but with my new system in mind:

1: Blood Currants (required)
2: Maple Sugar (required)
3: Salted Butter (required)
4: Pie Dough (required)
5: Mineral Water (required)
6: Sun Lemon (optional - HQ+5%)
7: Natron (optional - HQ+5%)
8: Gridanian Walnut (optional - HQ+5%)

As you can see the ability to use this recipe to grind exp increases, however it keeps its complexity for those not grinding exp and rather, grinding them for money/quality.

However this idea can be applied to all the other crafts too and wouldn't necessarily have to apply to every single recipe where it makes sense to be basic.

They can also add items to the already simplistic recipes of other crafts as optional flairs for higher quality.

If there's anything you don't understand, let me know and please discuss with your thoughts and ideas! :D

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No. Most items you can buy from npc.

Leave craft as it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zhyrios

is everyone as rich as you? everyone seems to think I'm a noob and must be only asking for this kind of system because i suck, right. unlike alot of people I'm not selfish like that, I'm proposing a system like this for the good of everyone, I have plenty of gil and it's always running, but you shouldn't have to fork out near 300k gil to grind a few levels on something.
What about the new players?

a system like this could go great places, its basically exactly the same as the current system, but more dynamic and realistic.

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Sir, I did not say that you were a noob, nor am I particularly rich. I have 7.8m at the moment, primarily because I do not have the time (or the will) to farm relentlessly.

I am quite lazy, and I have millions. Anyone can do it. As I said, a couple of hours of work farming bomb ash, but also, boar hides, raptor hides, aldgoat hides and horns (horns sell particularly well), various low-level ores from mining or botany, fishing, et cetera.

There are also leves, quest rewards, and the like. It is not an unreasonable statement, saying that gil is easy to make. It is. o.o I am not denigrating you. I am stating fact.

Incidentally, dynamic I might buy, but I do wonder at this realism thing when you're playing a fantasy game where we square off against berserker killer demons of air and darkness. (>.>) And where a psychopathic fellow has called down a flippin' moon to revive an ancient evil that's gonna shred the planet. Whither realism?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

Sir, I did not say that you were a noob, nor am I particularly rich. I have 7.8m at the moment, primarily because I do not have the time (or the will) to farm relentlessly.

I am quite lazy, and I have millions. Anyone can do it. As I said, a couple of hours of work farming bomb ash, but also, boar hides, raptor hides, aldgoat hides and horns (horns sell particularly well), various low-level ores from mining or botany, fishing, et cetera.

There are also leves, quest rewards, and the like. It is not an unreasonable statement, saying that gil is easy to make. It is. o.o I am not denigrating you. I am stating fact.

Incidentally, dynamic I might buy, but I do wonder at this realism thing when you're playing a fantasy game where we square off against berserker killer demons of air and darkness. (>.>) And where a psychopathic fellow has called down a flippin' moon to revive an ancient evil that's gonna shred the planet. Whither realism?

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you're thinking of realism in the wrong way then.

great fantasy epics are those that blur the line between fantasy and realism, for they can both coexist.

People need air to breath, the day is hotter in the summer and colder in the winter. This is realism, does it hurt the fantasy at all or does it enhance it by bringing the world to life?

Are we to say that because this game is set in a fantasy world, that crafting is supposed to be unrealistic?

Realism promotes a believable world, no matter how many monsters and magics and chocobos you throw in.

If people can choose to put optional ingredients in their recipes, does the world become less fantasy?

My main concern isn't the recipes as such. I am sure I have received pretty much every ingredient in every food item through general play and levelling DoL. I've then promptly sold it to NPCs since the ingredients for cooking alone could easily have filled both my retainers. If we could buy extra retainer space I would not have a problem with the current system but as someone who has leveled all crafting classes and needs some inventory space for each, my only option for culinarian was to grind fish.

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Originally Posted by Zhyrios

you're thinking of realism in the wrong way then.

great fantasy epics are those that blur the line between fantasy and realism, for they can both coexist.

People need air to breath, the day is hotter in the summer and colder in the winter. This is realism, does it hurt the fantasy at all or does it enhance it by bringing the world to life?

Are we to say that because this game is set in a fantasy world, that crafting is supposed to be unrealistic?

Realism promotes a believable world, no matter how many monsters and magics and chocobos you throw in.

If people can choose to put optional ingredients in their recipes, does the world become less fantasy?

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I don't think that whether you add lemon or not to the pastries really counts as adding realism into an ostensibly combat-focused game. I believe crafting is right at where it should be. There are some complex recipes, there are some that are simple. Why not try a new recipe rather than propose adjusting the entire system?

Also, you just kinda skipped over the rest of my post.

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Originally Posted by Zhyrios

oh cool only 277497 gil plus an eternity farming walnuts to finally get around to grinding at 27+ :P

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Then use another recipe
Acorn Cookie (lv35 recipe):
Rye Floor - 43 gil
Table Salt - 11 gil
Iron Acorn - gathered
Mineral Water - 60 gil

If you don't want to buy or grind the items, use leve like every other crafter who don't want to buy or grind the items.

Stepping back for a moment - while I do not agree with the general premise of your post, I think that the idea itself has some value. Recipe complexity is pretty good where it is I should think, but adding the ability to "spice" up (no pun intended) recipes for bonus to HQ chances isn't bad. On the contrary it's quite interesting.

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Originally Posted by Zhyrios

I have been crafting on culinarian lately and I find the lack of simplistic recipes unnerving.

For grinding exp I have to rely on crafting fish into sand, and that makes me sad, because when I'm levelling Culinarian, I want to feel like one.

But the recipes that would make me feel like I really am a chef take too many ingredients that grinding for exp on them is purely inefficient.

So I devised a new crafting mechanic.

Take the recipe for Blood Currant Tarts for an example:

1: Blood Currants
2: Maple Sugar
3: Salted Butter
4: Pie Dough
5: Sun Lemon
6: Natron
7: Gridanian Walnut
8: Mineral Water

As you can see, its completely unrealistic to expect to grind on something like that.
First thing that came to my head was for them to simplify recipes like they did for every other crafter, However a lot of people like this, and it can be nice to make you feel immersed as a high-quality chef.

However the system I devised would keep the best of both worlds, what I am suggesting is a crafting mechanic where each recipe has a set of simple minimum required ingredients and a set of optional ingredients to increase quality/HQ% chance.

So let's look at the recipe for Blood Currant Tarts again but with my new system in mind:

1: Blood Currants (required)
2: Maple Sugar (required)
3: Salted Butter (required)
4: Pie Dough (required)
5: Mineral Water (required)
6: Sun Lemon (optional - HQ+5%)
7: Natron (optional - HQ+5%)
8: Gridanian Walnut (optional - HQ+5%)

As you can see the ability to use this recipe to grind exp increases, however it keeps its complexity for those not grinding exp and rather, grinding them for money/quality.

However this idea can be applied to all the other crafts too and wouldn't necessarily have to apply to every single recipe where it makes sense to be basic.

They can also add items to the already simplistic recipes of other crafts as optional flairs for higher quality.

If there's anything you don't understand, let me know and please discuss with your thoughts and ideas! :D

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It think it is a good idea.
It doesn't hinder other players looking to simply farm their way to success, while still allowing others to craft high quality items slightly more easily.

Keep up the good ideas! :D

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Originally Posted by Zhyrios

but you shouldn't have to fork out near 300k gil to grind a few levels on something.

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then
that
is
what
leves
are
for

do people even READ? i already covered this.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

Stepping back for a moment - while I do not agree with the general premise of your post, I think that the idea itself has some value. Recipe complexity is pretty good where it is I should think, but adding the ability to "spice" up (no pun intended) recipes for bonus to HQ chances isn't bad. On the contrary it's quite interesting.

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This is generally what i'm trying to say, i myself have no problem farming up extra ingredients for that stuff if i wanted to, but i dont want to go through all the hassle. Mainly because i feel a lot of the ingredients are unnecessary.

I used the recipe above to show how some ingredients in some recipes could really be those "extra kick to hq" items rather than staple ingredients, and as i explained in the OP, extra items could be added to "spice" up other recipes.

Everyone seems to think i'm posting this as if i'm completely unable to get through crafting lol, i pity them for not understanding.

In short:

I'm posting this idea because of the mechanic I have thought up - to add more complexity and realism and reward to a basic crafting system.

whether or not I like the current system of unnecessary ingredients in current recipes is of no consequence to the original idea behind this post.

I like your idea a bit. I do not think they should take those ingredients away, but rather be able to add something to them for a higher chance of HQ earlier. You would not be able to use too many, but could still use some. thought that is much harder to balance and put in the game in a good way. You have to balance all crafts not just make one different like that.