The missing achievements should stay missing

The missing achievements for the OC are looking like some of the worst achievements in the game and I don't understand who thought this was a good idea, and if anyone did any math to figure out the time sync involved.

While 30k accursed hoard will take something like 700-800 hours of playtime using cheese strats and not playing any other part of the game. I know Cider Spider mentioned that one at fanfest and joked in a recent vid about how it was malicious. These will likely take longer, be more rng based, and will only serve to discourage playing or achievement hunting, and instead encourage botting, which is already a big issue in OC.

I achievement hunt and talk to many others who do. I've heard nobody who thinks these achievements are good or healthy, and many who are thinking of quitting the game because achievements like this are just toxic for the game.

I feel like the devs should take this bug as a win and cancel putting them in the game at all. I really hope this feedback gets given to them

bUt If YoU dOn'T dO tHeM tHeN yOu ClEaRlY sTiLl HaVe CoNtEnT tO dO iN tHe GaMe!!!!111!!

Hope they fix and remove them from everyone who didn't legitimately get them kek

i am sorry, if you think you have to quit a game because it has grindy achievements you better stop anyway. this is unhealthy.

also the fixation on achievements is somewhat pointless in this games

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Originally Posted by Nilocy

The missing achievements for the OC are looking like some of the worst achievements in the game and I don't understand who thought this was a good idea, and if anyone did any math to figure out the time sync involved.

While 30k accursed hoard will take something like 700-800 hours of playtime using cheese strats and not playing any other part of the game. I know Cider Spider mentioned that one at fanfest and joked in a recent vid about how it was malicious. These will likely take longer, be more rng based, and will only serve to discourage playing or achievement hunting, and instead encourage botting, which is already a big issue in OC.

I achievement hunt and talk to many others who do. I've heard nobody who thinks these achievements are good or healthy, and many who are thinking of quitting the game because achievements like this are just toxic for the game.

I feel like the devs should take this bug as a win and cancel putting them in the game at all. I really hope this feedback gets given to them

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there have been people that completed all the current OC achievements before 2nd OC released and there will be people that will complete all the new ones before 8.0 hits :shrug:

They really need to look at achievements from the ground up... Both in terms of rewards and overall system, like, they need to be doing far more with the achievement token system than what they are currently doing. Then in terms of really what you want that journey to look like for the player, because that's where it gets messy.

The achievements in this game really suck, and I hope that they will rethink them in Evercold (especially since they talked about changing how hunts work and hunts have a lot of very unhealthy achievements related to them)
My conspiracy theory is that the 30k hoard achievement is a botting monitoring tool, because those kinds of achievements are realistically only attained by botters OR in rare cases neurodivergent people (affectionate)
Except that the devs do not monitor the timeframes in which these achievements are done to see whether its possible that a real person did it

Some achievements for Exploratory Zones and Deep Dungeons feel like aberrations. The old Happy Bunnies system in Eureka was a 300 total achievement. The new Happy Bunnies (Pots) became 1000 and now possibly 2000. They added the new Carrot system that is entirely RNG and or for wealthy people and basically matched the Pots values of 1000 and now possibly 2000. The new Happy Bunnies (Pots) also require more time between fates and competing for good RNG against other players. It's highly unusual for Achievements to have so many RNG elements going against you AND have such high target numbers. The other RNG achievement that went really weird is the Deep Dungeon Hoard achievement: again an excessively high number.

I suspect they looked at past data and said 'some people did Happy Bunnies in Eureka thousands of times and so we should up the achievement count'. The problem is they do not understand that the reason some players do something in game many more times than other players doesn't mean an achievement should exist upping the number. The reason some players did Happy Bunnies in Eureka so many more times was to find a rare minion (Copycat Bulb). The minion/reward was the carrot. There are very few valuable rewards in the current Pots and New Bunny Coffer fates. Someone at SE decided that a bigger achievement number would become the carrot, but it will be a carrot for unhealthy reasons targeting players with a mindset that SE should know better than to target. Falling back onto such high target achievement values is a sign of desperation due to having issues with the rewards system.

Imagine if they made the Treasure Dungeon achievements 200 clears instead of 20 clears. I have not done many Treasure Dungeons because I deplore this form of RNG so I will let others answer this question: will players who complete a Dungeon 20 times generally have earned all the rewards? I'm assuming most players have no reason to go beyond 20 clears.

It is easy to make unhealthy achievement targets. At some point, like after players complained about the 20,000 Hoard achievement, adding achievements with such values that doesn't add anything rewarding to the gameplay experience becomes malicious and or oblivious.

I tried achievement hunting. I thought I'd start small by doing the tiny leve achievements. They were so boring and had me waiting there 5 minutes a lot. I quit pretty fast.

I returned to just hunting mounts, and that has remained fun. Much more reasonable.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

there have been people that completed all the current OC achievements before 2nd OC released and there will be people that will complete all the new ones before 8.0 hits :shrug:

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Just because a couple of people complete them doesn't mean it's good design. I saw someone with the bunny title and I asked how long it took, they just spent like almost 2 billion gil on carrots on the market board.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

The achievements are still pretty poorly designed, regardless of whether you or anyone finds it 'exceptional', to be honest.

They can 'have their fun', and people can still point out they are poorly designed.

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I would prefer a "do 1000 CEs without getting hit by anything", but it is what it is
the average playerbase is incredibly bad at the game and to cater everyones skill-levels we get "open 10k chests"

Most of those insane achievements are designed for a very specific set of people, which are the hardcore achievement hunters or people who just REALLY enjoy that subset of content. This is their niche; however, OP does have a lot of standing to make this claim and request (based off what Lalachievements told me, congrats btw and sorry for being nosey) and I too have some problems with certain achievements involved with OC, DD, and Leves. I 100% support long term grinds and the love of the hunt, this is an MMO after all, but we need to be slightly realistic with some of them. With their selling point of making systems respect your time more in EC I would still like to see long term grinds stay but with the caveat of them not being like they were in the OC. I think certain achievements promote the use of botting and that should be addressed more.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

Just because a couple of people complete them doesn't mean it's good design. I saw someone with the bunny title and I asked how long it took, they just spent like almost 2 billion gil on carrots on the market board.

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Well, I get it, but the Bunny Title is meant for the super wealthy since by then they've run out of expensive things to buy except for this title :v

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

there have been people that completed all the current OC achievements before 2nd OC released and there will be people that will complete all the new ones before 8.0 hits :shrug:

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A lot of people bot, and a lot of people spend real money on gil too. I'm not saying everyone with the 1000 carrots did botting and RMT, but I am going to say achievements like this ENCOURAGES that behavior in people. These are not things like 100 FT, or 500 CEs, that come from natural play but things that either encourage you to spawn camp a fate (pots) or spend billions on an item (because the drop rate is ~1%) and then not engage with content except to wander the map for the occasional carrot location to have a spawn.

This is why I brought up 30k accursed hoard as an example of a bad achievement. If streamers like Angelus, who run DD almost exclusively, are only at 10k, it's a badly designed achievement. The current way people grind this is to go into a floor of HoH, pop an int, and an eidolon if there is a hoard, grab it and back out not even looking at what the loot is. That isn't playing the game, it's completionism that actively discourages playing the game or interacting with other players.

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Originally Posted by NailBach

i am sorry, if you think you have to quit a game because it has grindy achievements you better stop anyway. this is unhealthy.

also the fixation on achievements is somewhat pointless in this games

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Yes, you are sorry.

What was so strange to me was that Cider Spider (aka "Mad Because Small"), who's currently on a journey to get all achievements in the game asked both Yoshida and Foxclon directly during FanFest why 30K accursed horde, and who makes the achievements, and neither knew, outright.

Yeah I'm an achievement hunter, and no way i'm doing 2000 bunnies, unless they change things dramatically in north horn. I was pretty happy with my prog before I saw that message, now I just dont want to do it anymore, I'm selling my carrots

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Originally Posted by Hastatus

Some achievements for Exploratory Zones and Deep Dungeons feel like aberrations.

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Because they are. Why would there be an achievement for 2000 A ranks and 1000 S ranks when there are effectively 25x as many of the former. Same with the treasure achievements: an equal requirement for opening a map and clearing the dungeon, the latter of which takes 50-100 maps. The rewards no longer matter as none of them are unpurchaseable and they won't run you 3B gil.

Achievements that mandate alt-tabbing are flawed enough. The ones that mandate a supply of something that does not exist in the game fail as achievements.

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Originally Posted by TeresaFortell

Except that you forgot that the people who got the bunny achievement did not do it the intended way, but the efficient way: getting the carrots from the marketboard. To be entirely honest, I would not blame them for doing so, for getting the achievement is stupendously monotonous.

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the carrots would be untradeable, if the "intended" way was to farm them by yourself

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Originally Posted by Nilocy

A lot of people bot, and a lot of people spend real money on gil too. I'm not saying everyone with the 1000 carrots did botting and RMT, but I am going to say achievements like this ENCOURAGES that behavior in people. These are not things like 100 FT, or 500 CEs, that come from natural play

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dont worry, people also bot CEs, they have plugins that autoress people and whatnot. There are bots and plugins for every aspect of the game by now. If you want to get rid of accursed, you can get rid of any other achievement in this game aswell, because people bot everything

CS3, please consider more attainable goals for Achievements. I can understand some cheevs being a bit more involved, but there are too many that impress unreal expectations on players. It's unreasonable that Fortune Carrots sell for millions, but only award the player with a fraction.

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Originally Posted by NailBach

i am sorry, if you think you have to quit a game because it has grindy achievements you better stop anyway. this is unhealthy.

also the fixation on achievements is somewhat pointless in this games

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Achievement hunting has been a thing for as long as they've existed in games and the playerbase who enjoys going for them is well aware just how toxic and unhealthy the ones SE keep adding in are. That's why they ask they don't add in those kind of achievement. They are clearly lazy, not well thought out and the result would be a very bad exp for any player who went to get it. So why have it?

If every single patch adds a handful of achievements that would take hundreds of hours if you dedicate the time to it and ONLY it, it's probably not great to be adding something like that so frequently. Much less the fact doing thing x times is hardly an interesting thing to achieve.

Yoshi P encourages people to take breaks and overall seems to care about the welfare of the players, so why does he keep allowing achievements to be put in that encourage a very unhealthy playstyle? If someone wants to keep up with the achievements they're adding it would genuinely be a detriment to their standard of life imo. Nobody is forcing them to put in the hours, but SE shouldn't be pushing it with toxic achievements either.

Personally I think any patch adding in achievements should be doable within the patch lifecycle with a normal playtime. Not forcing nolifing to an extreme degree.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Personally I think any patch adding in achievements should be doable within the patch lifecycle with a normal playtime. Not forcing nolifing to an extreme degree.

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i think that would kill the entire purpose of "achievements" if its just a progress stamp that everyone gets

achievement: "something that you did or got after planning and working to make it happen, and that therefore gives you a feeling of satisfaction, or the act of working to make this happen"

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Originally Posted by TheGrimace

CS3, please consider more attainable goals for Achievements. I can understand some cheevs being a bit more involved, but there are too many that impress unreal expectations on players. It's unreasonable that Fortune Carrots sell for millions, but only award the player with a fraction.

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It is also not an achievement worth pursuing. No one is going to look at a bunny-blessed title and think that it is something admirable.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

i think that would kill the entire purpose of "achievements" if its just a progress stamp that everyone gets

achievement: "something that you did or got after planning and working to make it happen, and that therefore gives you a feeling of satisfaction, or the act of working to make this happen"

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It's fine for there to be some outrageous achievements, but I think most of them should be somewhat reasonable to get. If all the achievements are only obtainable for 0.1% of the players then it's just a waste of dev time to have achievements at all, it becomes a system that the overwhelming majority of players have no reason to ever even think about.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

It's fine for there to be some outrageous achievements, but I think most of them should be somewhat reasonable to get. If all the achievements are only obtainable for 0.1% of the players then it's just a waste of dev time to have achievements at all, it becomes a system that the overwhelming majority of players have no reason to ever even think about.

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OC has 30+ different achievements (with probably another 20+ coming soon) and 10% of these require a lot of grind. I think thats reasonable

You know, as a non-achievement hunter, I always looked at it from a different angle. I enjoy achievements that are ridiculous, because they serve as a tracker for how much of a certain thing I've done, take the Lifer achievement for example, it only goes up to 10k dungeons/trials, which genuinely feels too low and I am sure many in this thread have already completed it, I would enjoy an achievement above Lifer III that reads "completely one trillion dungeons/raids/trials", no title or reward, a measly 5 points, but it would give me a fun bit of data about my character I could always keep track of.

But from the look of it, an achievement like that would piss off a lot of people.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

i think that would kill the entire purpose of "achievements" if its just a progress stamp that everyone gets

achievement: "something that you did or got after planning and working to make it happen, and that therefore gives you a feeling of satisfaction, or the act of working to make this happen"

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Not really, just cause something can be done in a 4 ish month period with a reasonable amount of playtime doesn't mean it's lesser value. You can make an achievement that is harder to do via skill rather than just demanding a stupid amount of a time sink in a menial task.

Guild wars 2 manages to make achievements every patch that most players actually enjoy interacting with, some simple some more challenging but most all but a few are reasonable and feel good to get with effort. Not like the nasty ones in ffxiv. Honestly I'd say achievement hunters would have a nicer time in GW2 than ff.

An interesting bit of history I've heard, though I wasn't playing during that time, was that leading up to ShB release they talked about moving away from cumulative achievements like lifer so that newer players could catch up. This is why if you look at things like at hunting achievements like Bring Your A Game or the craft X uniques, or catch X Big Fish, they all stop or change after StB. You still get Capstones like final fish, but the change was a way to make people who join today not bounce off immediately.

I have a lot of grindy achievements like 2000 mentors, all the tank achievements, (close to) 1000 FL wins, big fishing, 3k chocobo races, etc. I don't have issues with any of them. (I don't have Lifer III yet but I will before 8.0). Lifer I could see being expanded without issue too, though I think making healer and dps achievements like the tank ones would be more fun and interesting
I also think achievement points aren't as big a motivator as people think to achievement hunters. They matter sure, but not a ton, but I think bringing back some 30 pointers for ridiculous grinds would be fun too since we haven't had any since 2.0.

I don't think people mind a grindy achievement, and I certainly don't, what I mind are ones that are clearly not thought out by the team, and encourage bad behavior and not playing the game.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

OC has 30+ different achievements (with probably another 20+ coming soon) and 10% of these require a lot of grind. I think thats reasonable

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No they are not reasonable.

I did the Mentor grind, the hunt trains, the 100 towers clears, all the fishes, about one third of the way done tru PVP wins and this is worst then all of them.

Layers upon layers of mindless RNG and Gil sink that will only get more expensive when the content dies. And you basicly need to do it now or its never gonna happen. Unless they change it for north horn, but they most likely wont.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

bUt If YoU dOn'T dO tHeM tHeN yOu ClEaRlY sTiLl HaVe CoNtEnT tO dO iN tHe GaMe!!!!111!!

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imagine that game had actually fun things to accomplish instead of heavy duty job-like grind.

The achievements like the tanks ones should have ones for all other jobs. Every job should have a mount linked achievement like that with unique mount set for each job. Kind dumb only tanks get those when all jobs are just as important in duties.

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Originally Posted by Erza_Scarlets

The achievements like the tanks ones should have ones for all other jobs. Every job should have a mount linked achievement like that with unique mount set for each job. Kind dumb only tanks get those when all jobs are just as important in duties.

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IIRC they added those to push people more into trying the tank role, I could be wrong but I think that's why only tanks have them.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

IIRC they added those to push people more into trying the tank role, I could be wrong but I think that's why only tanks have them.

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It used to be the case, way back when, when Tank was the least played role by a wide margin, and those achievements were introduced then, or so I am told. It is also, presumably, why the Tanks became so powerful, they overcorrected things hard.

It's also precisely why that type of Achievement should be added for every job by now, they no longer have a role to fulfill, and it just leads to Tanks being overly coddled.