Potions are not useful unless you're a really low level.
The amount of hp/mp they restore, or the effects they have are too minute to make them worth buying/carrying much less use them in battle.
And then there's the recast times. I could maybe get by with restoring a measly 300mp if it didn't then take FOUR AND A HALF FREAKING MINUTES before I could use another one.
The only potion that is even halfway useful is Ironwill Ungeant, as it gives us the effect of Shell, which SE saw fit to deprive Conjurer of casting.
But even that has a cooldown of 10 minutes when the effect only lasts 5. So STILL no one ever uses it.
Potions should either have little to no 'recast' time, or give us boosts that are actually worthwhile.
Potions: When will they be useful?
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08-24-2012, 05:25 AMPunainenPotions: When will they be useful?
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08-24-2012, 05:26 AMrina_inverse
other kind of potions are usefull
just sayin -
08-24-2012, 05:31 AMHolland
If potions would be given either lower recasts or greater effects, the game would have to be balanced around people using different kinds of potions, making them necesary instead of an option, just like materia.
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08-24-2012, 05:37 AMMolly_Millions
usefull potions:
Mega-potion of STR (I love these! I can out DD a BRD on my PLD by using them)
Mega-potion of INT
Mega-Ether
Hi-Potion and better
nerve drops
throat drops
maddening potion
Elixer
all the status inducing potions
there could be more, I just haven't used them. OP try them, you'll see potions are quite usefull. -
08-24-2012, 05:39 AMDoho
Mega Potion, just the regular one is useful NOW go buy some
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08-24-2012, 05:43 AMRauSTR helps? :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
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08-24-2012, 05:44 AMPunainenHi-potions have never been useful unless I was a low level. And I tried nerve drops once as a WHM when I accidentally took hate, and it didn't do any good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
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08-24-2012, 05:52 AMnormalforce
There's always:
Elixir - HP Regen : +50% (2000 max), MP Regen : +30% (1050 max)
Mega-Ether - MP Regen : +20% (600 max)
Mega-Potion - HP Regen : +20% (600 max)
But, yea, otherwise the rest of the healing potions aren't all that noteworthy. -
08-24-2012, 05:54 AMAltanasthat kind of illustrates part of the problem, theres no point using low level medicines, even if you are low level yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
there are times when potions would feel much welcome or needed, like if you are about to die from poison. The concept of a potion or ether is that its your First Aid kit when you are in a tight spot. So why the restriction in an emergency? It would be a fair compromise if potions had no recast time so you could spam them, but after you used a few you got a groggy / drunk like effect and you had to wait for that to wear off before spamming again.
a way to stop low levels using high end potions would be to have an over the top drunk effect, so they use the low level ones instead; and if you are high level well you could spam 20 potions if there were no mega potions in stock.
abuse too many potions and you might get a "weakness" effect like when you revive, abuse too many during weakness and you drop dead XD /remembers mules in Jeuno drinking poison potions for the lols
I'm sure the above would also keep the economy rolling or even entice DOW/DOM players to pick up a side craft for self sufficiency. -
08-24-2012, 05:55 AMRokien
I don't want potions to be how I cure myself, I want to carry a few potions with me in a emergency situation.
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08-24-2012, 05:57 AMBabydoll
I hope they fix the cool down timer for PVP...and make them actually useful. I never, ever use them. I use the MP one rarely though lol
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08-24-2012, 05:58 AMBharata_SenkaRokien, I'm not sure what's happened, but you seem to have developed some common sense as of late :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokien
I agree 100%. Potions were never meant to be a main source of healing.
I can tell you that just last night, I had gotten myself in over my head in a leve at Treespeak, and my GLA had run out of MP, and I was so close to dying, but I popped a potion, and it was enough to let me finish the leve. This was just a regular ol' potion, not a mega...
So, in my circumstances, I was very thankful for that potion.
Thank you very much
Have a nice day -
08-24-2012, 06:04 AMDawiichan
Potions right now can be very useful. In ifrit extreme I used to carry around a few mega-potions since 600 HP can easily make the difference between life and death. Mega-ethers are also really nice since they have a decently low CD and help with fights where you mana-burn. Elixers are great for paladin since it can give them a lot of enmity through the heal and also help their MP in an MP intensive fight such as ifrit where you heal yourself many times. Nerve drops and maddening potions have made it so that a WHM can use benediction on a party which are all at yellow HP after the paladin pops hallowed ground and doesn't steal hate. Potions can be used effectively in multiple ways (specially the Str and Int potions to increase damage output).
The usefulness of lower tier potions is pretty much only the reduced cost. -
08-24-2012, 06:07 AMMolly_Millionsthat's because nerve drops don't shed hate, they prevent you from gaining as much hate for the actions you perform while the effect is active. Hi-potions do help in a pinch, they give a small amount of hp faster than you could with a cure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Punainen
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08-24-2012, 06:09 AMMolly_Millionsmega-potions of STR add 125 attack power in addition to the STR they add. hell yes they are useful!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rau
in seems to me that people aare using the wrong potions in the wrong way. I pop potions like they are going out of style, the high-end potions are almost all very usefull. -
08-24-2012, 06:09 AMKinseykinz
The problem is potions aren't supposed to give a long-lasting benefit. They are supposed to be an 'emergency' item or a special that does something like help with 'spike' damage for a short time. That said, I think SE needs to re-evaluate the recast timers or potency on some, not necessarily all potions,remedies, elixirs etc.
Potions/Elixirs -I believe the recast time on these is probably okay. However, they should give better benefits. These should be solely for 'Oh POOP!' moments, so it's okay in my opinion if a Potion healed your average level 20and below, ungeared character to full once, a High Potion maybe level 30 and under Mega-potion 40 and under and Elixir's the 50's...or close to it. But kept the timer (maybe even lengthen the timer a bit for the higher level potions). This way, they don't truely replace the Healer class/mp refresh skills etc, but they still have some in-game value.
Ethers should follow the same logic but give back maybe 50% mp based on level of potion and player level. Lastly, potions and Ethers should be 'tiered' sorta like food is so that a low-ranked player benefits more from a low ranked potion than a high ranked one.
Throat Drops (and similar items) -Really the timer is TOO long on these items. I should be able to use throat drops several times if needed in the same Boss battle. Sure, whm's have Esuna, but it's single target (unless Sacred Prism is up) and it's timer is a tad long to be able to single target more than 2 people in a decent time span....plus, in order to cast Esuna, the whm needs to not be silenced in the first place. A compromise would be a recast timer shortened to double the natural Esuna timer OR making it that occasionally the throat drops fail.
I think the Stat based potions actually do work fairly well and are nice perks atm. I believe the issue the WHM had with the Nerve Drops is that you need to use them BEFORE the blinking hate, not after...but not 100% sure on this. -
08-24-2012, 06:16 AMMolly_MillionsThat's correct, if you get blinking hate as mage, you screwed up. Nerve drops won't help that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseykinz
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08-24-2012, 06:21 AMOrophin
I think an elixir should heal you to full with a very long cooldown. (20-30 mins since no fights really take that long) I don't know if this would break game balance, but in the traditional sense this is what an elixir did. The only downside to this is, as other posters mentioned, they will become a necessity and not an "oh shit" type item. Once a BLM runs out of MP and convert isn't ready, they'll just pop an elixir and get right back to it.
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08-24-2012, 06:22 AMPunainen600 MP is like 1 to 2 spells for a BLM, and is therefore ultimately useless, not worth buying/carrying.Quote:
Originally Posted by normalforce
And my point still stands, if it doesn't have 'mega' in the name, its garbage. So why are they in the game? -
08-24-2012, 06:24 AMAeraLucis^ Quoted for truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
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08-24-2012, 06:27 AMTatsuguy
you need str potion for ifrit extreme and potions help a shit ton at 13 nails lol.
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08-24-2012, 06:28 AMShadowedgeActually, conjurer has a trait that gives protect the effect of defense bonus AND magic defense bonus. So a conjurer / WHM at the appropriate level has both protect and shell rolled into one spell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Punainen
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08-24-2012, 06:28 AMMolly_MillionsMP potions should be reserved for WHM, use convert to get MP back on BLM. Again you are using the potion in a way that makes it a waste. Use mega-potions of INT or nerve drops on BLM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Punainen
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08-24-2012, 06:29 AMPunainenWhere, might I ask, did I request they become the main way to cure yourself? Is there nothing in between garbage and main-healing power? If they healed you 1000hp with the same 4:30 cooldown, they would both be useful, AND not good enough to be a main heal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokien
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08-24-2012, 06:36 AMJennestiaPretty much this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
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08-24-2012, 06:53 AMRyansPotions are all about the situation. 600 MP is a decent amount for a whm or pld in any fight and pretty handy in a burn phase for a blm. If you are doing a blm burn and all ~5 of the blms pop a mega ether, that is 10 more spells which can easily be 5-8k.Quote:
Originally Posted by Punainen
As for the normal potions being garbage, they have to start some where. The first potion an alchemist makes can't heal for 500 hp, it would either create a balance issue with the higher quality of potions (force them to be even stronger so they aren't overlooked) or make little incentive to finish leveling alchemy (the higher level potions wouldn't be strong enough to warrant getting another 30+ levels in alchemy.) You don't complain about a lvl 10 sword being less beneficial then a lvl 50 sword, do you? Same idea. -
08-24-2012, 06:54 AMJinrya-Geki
I like Elixirs :3
If only they came in a grape flavor! -
08-24-2012, 07:33 AMChinook
Potions are fine as it imho. Stat-enhancing ones most notably.
If they make them more potent or remove cooldowns, the game will have to completely be rebalanced and they will become a necessity, which creates another problem. -
08-24-2012, 07:43 AMGinTama
im guessing potions are getting reworked too...
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08-24-2012, 07:53 AMDeli
hmm interesting... no one <3 blood drop?
That's where almost the only thing can help you right away if you accidentally stand inside Bad Breath.
Also, during Aleport Hamlet, it helps a lot for DoH so 50% chance you don't need bug WHMs "Esuna please"
20 bottles is only 10 GC seals...
and I use Kiss of the Morning Dew (Adder 50 seals)... for 1050mp... at emergency pld hamlet tanking or whm curing... -
08-24-2012, 08:03 AMRokienWell when you say no to little cooldown..."Potions should either have little to no 'recast' time, or give us boosts that are actually worthwhile. "Quote:
Originally Posted by Punainen
That's pretty much saying, "Hey we don't need a whm! We can just spam potions!!" Sorry, I don't want that. They should make potions just for an "oh ****!!!" moment. If that moment happens twice in a fight, well, you should probably practice more. Let them have higher cooldown but cure/recover more is my thinking on how they should work. -
08-24-2012, 08:10 AMMolly_Millionsthey have been reworked already. We used to have things like fire potions that gave maybe 10 hp.Quote:
Originally Posted by GinTama
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08-24-2012, 08:15 AMDohoi agree with this, however my main problem with the stat debuff remedies is that they are on the same timer as stuff like ethers and health potions. so you have to decide, do i want to be cured of poison? or recover some mp/hp?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deli
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08-24-2012, 10:43 AMDelihmmQuote:
Originally Posted by Doho
I think it's really depend on situation and lots playing style involved.
well at least to me when I get bad breath-ed, I want to not-dead first, so I swallow one blood drop ASAP. Because esuna is randomly remove one stat, it's too much luck-based inside. if whm failed, then you lose another 700+ hp already til next esuna hit you. and do whm really have time to save you or they will choose to help tank first? While poison wear, usually -2000+hp already. in the other words, it's equal to an Elixir or 2 cura from whm.
it is what I'll do when I was blm/whm/DD. For tanking, I'll just wait for whm save me cus I should save the timer for possible Elixir. -
08-24-2012, 10:51 AMVanguard319
I make good money crafting maddening potions, and they are always in demand.
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08-24-2012, 11:04 AMViritess
Could find a use for the low end materia and use materia to boost effects of some of the loewer end potions. I had posted an idea in the alchemy forum section, long before i knew no one posted anything anywwhere except General. Feel free to check it out.
Instead of dumping tier 1 and 2 materia they could let us either add additional effects or just outright boost the power of the lower end potions, thus making them a little better but at a cost of materia and crafting time. Doubt that would have a huge effect but it would be an option. -
08-24-2012, 11:14 AMChardrizard
It is probably useless if you keep taking eruptions and hoping it will heals u fully. I am sure if they are useless, they will never sell, Now go ahead and check the price history on stuff like Mega-potion and stats potion.
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08-24-2012, 11:27 AMViritessWell there is a reason why Elixers, and pretty much only elixers cost so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardrizard
They are the top potions, and they are on the same single timer ALL potions use. WHy carry much else if by the time an elixer timer is up, you can just use another elixer.
I think the minor change they could make is place most if not all Potions on their own timers, and then increase the timers for each potion that has the same or similar effect as eachother.
+HP potions have longer timers, but each type is seperate. Thus if you have a single O shit moment, Elixer, second one, Mega-Potions, 3rd one, Hi potions. To the point where your doing pretty bad so your potions are weaker. Weaker cause your stinking up the raid and had to blow all your High end potions.
Then one of your limiters is how many inventory slots you want to spend on a plethera of potions.
Could also lower the timer on Status recovery potions, but make a rarer ingredient to make them. Or make a high end version that always works, that needs rarer materials, and a low end that fails some times. Then you could use them more often, but the price would either be, have a bunch, but sometimes it fails, or have a sure cure, but the cost is high.
But i do like the drunk/overuse idea mentioned earlier. I do prefer some timers on potion use, but with an over-use debuff, it could be much shorter and allow some real flexability. -
08-24-2012, 11:33 AMChardrizard
There are more people using mega-potions than elixirs and elixirs are expensive because the mats doesnt exactly rain. They only comes from raids/primals chests, mega-potions also have 1:30min coooldown which is more useable.
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08-24-2012, 11:43 AMAlfortis
I always wanted to discuss potions in MMOs. What do you guys think about percentage based potions like in Star Ocean?
For example, I would use a normal potion that only recovers 15-25% of my total HP. The higher level potions would do 35-50%. Of course there would be a recast timer and a casting time for these potions along with a lot of balancing when it comes to how much and many the player can use or hold.
Personally I never liked the standard potion use in JRPGs like Final Fantasy. They are only useful at the start of the game. At the end of the game, the only potions worth using were the mega, X, or elixir potions (which can be limited). There comes a time in games where everyone has to heal themselves when facing the aftermath of a powerful attack. Online or offline.