Relic Weapons: What do you want them to be?

As the title says, I want to know what everyone wants the relics to be. Not for the sake of debating over which is the best or correct one, but rather just to get an idea of what the consensus is, assuming there even is one. I some times have trouble getting a clear idea of what the general desire of the fanbase is, so I'm hoping to get a clearer picture this way.

I personally want Bozja 2.0. I enjoy field operations, and I think Bozja was the best version of the concept we got. Whether it's using Lost Actions to alter your combat options or Essences to adjust stat, it gives me a ton of options for customisations that you don't get outside of it.

Relics steps were mostly good, and having the option to do content outside of Bozja for people who don't like it was a great idea. Locking later steps behind Bozja progress was dumb however.

I also loved the more social aspect of it, seeing veterans helping new players, people just goofing off in shout, even if I'm usually quiet in my corner, that sort of thing was fun to participate in.

Anyway, I wish to know what everyone wants. At least so I can understand you all a bit better, one person at a time.

Bozja was so nice. I don't understand why they took the worst parts of Bozja and Eureka and made Occult Crescent. I agree that locking steps behind Bozja progress was irritating. While I didn't mind it, getting into that one raid that required a timer was just awful. Later on they fixed that by having it just an actual raid instance you could queue up for. Gathering the items in Occult Crescent was doable but a bit of a nightmare. Since things only dropped from certain sections of the map. So you had to rely on fates popping up and hoping you'd get to them in time. Playing content outside of Occult Crescent is a step in the right direction, particularly the step they had where you had to queue up for dungeons and raids. This was good for the following reasons.

-It let you queue for content that newer players might have been trying to get through.
-It made you actively play different parts of the game and help alleviate queue times for others.
-It let you do things other than the current grind of Ex Roulette or the current 8man/Alliance Raid.

They should keep the formula of one step being a grind. Then the following step just being tomestones. That flows way better than past relics.

I want it to be a grind. I don't understand people who want these weapons to be 1500 tomes to turn in. You have people complain there's no content then they complain that things take too long to grind it makes no sense. Relics should be the weapon you have to grind your butt off to get. Not all content should be made for people who just want to afk in limsa and play other games.

There is no point in this debate. After 10 years of SE going in circles, it's clear that everyone is split and that they cannot please everyone.

I want them to be earned. For that reason, ARR's version is good. Heavenward's is good. The problem with those was they didn't involve new content, so Eureka's was an improvement and was pretty good. Stormblood's involved RNG stats, which wasn't good, but thankfully it doesn't matter post-Stormblood.

Shadowbringers partially solved the problem of people wanting to get all the relics and that being too grindy, but the issue was farming DR or going through Deep Dungeons for a "chance" wasn't fun, and doing the new content wasn't the "most efficient" way.

Dawntrail's version of the relics seems the best version. They are making you earn the relics, doing things like you did in ARR and new content being the "most efficient way", but they entirely solve the problem of people wanting to get all the relics by making subsequent relics involve just tomestones. This problem needed solving simply because we have somewhere around double the jobs we had in ARR and Heavensward, where getting relics for all jobs was already a lot.

Many players prefer farming old braindead content like Crystal Tower and O3; many others prefer tomestones and many prefer to "earn" them. The playerbase is split and there will always be someone that is unhappy. I know just from being on these forums for years:

• When you have to do new content, people complain they want to farm old braindead content like O3 and Crystal Tower.
• When doing old content is the most efficient way, people complain the relics don't involve new content and that SE isn't adding new content.
• When it's handed to you through tomestones like in Endwalker, people complain SE is lazy and didn't put effort into the relic system and that there's nothing to do.
• When it requires grindy things like atma farms, people complain that it's not handed to them like they were in Endwalker. These complaints fall silent after a week or few when they get through it, showing that it's not really a long-term problem and that these complaints should be ignored and seen as venting.

What i want is similar relic weapon grind like we had back in Heavensward that allow me grind relic weapon steps at my own phase without being forced to grind relic weapon steps as fast as possible.

Biggest problem i have with field operation relic weapons is that they require having a party which is impossible for me when no one wants me in their party, i don't want being forced to join very active free company and of course i hate being forced to grind field operation relic weapon steps as fast as possible when once new field operation area gets added, the older field operation area pretty much dies instantly.

Yes i know i can do field operation solo but due to their rogue lite elements where dying cause loss of exp and levels makes doing field operations solo way too risky and doing Occult Crescent solo is pretty much impossible due to FATE's being completed in seconds and critical encounters requires having a party to do when without getting heals and not doing boss mechanics perfectly makes doing critical encounters solo impossible for me when not even dying is not a option due to no one will resurrect me and i have to respawn but respawning always cause loss of critical encounter rewards.

I think Bozja was the perfect middle ground for the relics.
It was tied to the field zone while also giving the option of outside farming, it had an interesting story around them and a mix of harsh grind once and the rest easier.
The CLL stop was stupid though.

I personally don't mind tomestones being an option after the first grind simply because there are people nowadays who like that but imo I want to be able to do the first step again and I think the tomestone costs should be higher because in the end, relics are supposed to be a grind and a "symbol of time investment".
My problem here is that I don't even have the option the second step upwards and that they have been reduced to "catch-up weapons".

The grind itself is one thing, the other is to make that interesting.
The books in ARR were actually a good idea but badly implemented (nowadays with Khloe's method it would be far better) and I think that should be the way for a grind.
Some paper to wrap the grind in. Make it fun.
I like such grinds because I have a goal I can slowly and relaxed work forward to and having those middle goalposts makes that better.


That said, I think the entire system needs to be restarted and reworked though.
This game needs change and relics are one thing that is completely stuck in the past, not only from gameplay but also from a story perspective.
I am tired of Gerold and Rowena's stupid business and drama. The callbacks were funny the first few times but at this point it is just ridiculous and stands in the way of potential worldbuilding and character stories.
Just imagine we find an old forge from an old era and use it to reforge a weapon by ourselves.

Personally I think the relics should always be a grind with several options but they should be different in each expansion, be it in story or acquisition.
They should be a time investment though, no matter if it involves a normal grind or tomestones as a second step option because that has been the entire purpose of them.
The problem with them is the same as with the jobs. They have been changed for another target audience and now we have two fronts of players regarding them.


Edit:
Forgot something:
Relics should also have extra stats for their specific content like for example the field zones if they play a role there.

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Originally Posted by UNDEAD10000

Biggest problem i have with field operation relic weapons is that they require having a party which is impossible for me when no one wants me in their party

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I am very confident I could get the relics solo in Dawntrail. I've solo'd most Critical Engagements. The FATEs are easy to solo if they aren't overscaled (and you can run away and re-engage to try and rescale HP). Full credit can be obtained from FATEs and CEs by playing a tank with stance on; no party is actually needed.

I was able to solo each Eureka area's relic steps when they made the special item buyable, which happened after each new area was released or in 5.0. This was before we had Echo and numerous other buffs/nerfs and free elemental gear on the market board, so it's more realistic for average players to solo now.

I don't remember about Bozja. You are a bit stuck if you haven't done its initial story because then you have to find a way to get through CLL, DR and Dalriada. But I think after that it's pretty soloable.

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i know i can do field operation solo but due to their rogue lite elements where dying cause loss of exp and levels makes doing field operations solo way too risky

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That isn't true. In Bozja, doing 3 skirmishes in the third section of Zadnor completely restores all your EXP. Same in Occult Crescent. Moreover, these levels do not affect your attack power or incoming/outgoing damage, so it's actually irrelevant.

I died several times solo farming gold and just continued farming it because it didn't matter. I continued soloing CEs and FATEs even if I died to one of them, because it didn't matter.

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doing Occult Crescent solo is pretty much impossible due to FATE's being completed in seconds

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This really doesn't happen all the time. It varies a lot. For example, if people are doing a CE or FT they will probably ignore the FATEs. Or you can try to get into a dead instance or do it when less people are in the content, such as the middle of the night or when new content releases that pulls everyone away.

Overall, I find it hard to believe everyone would not want you in their party. So many people play this game that there are always people that don't know who you are, and will invite you regardless of what reputation you think you have. And in the worst case being a tank and producing as much enmity as you can will work, and you can level up Phantom Jobs and obtain gear to boost your damage (and thus enmity generation).

Honestly I think DT system is the best version. You have field operation but also can do content outside of it to grind your relic. Afterwards you only need to do tomestone grind for the other weapons.
The problem is occult crescent feels half baked and not well designed. They need to be bolder with their quest design, don't just make us do FATE grind, slap RNG on and call it a day.
Phantom jobs being boring doesn't help thing as well imo.

I think most people seem to agree that they need to be something that you can work slowly over time and isn't obtained within an instant. Call it grindy, effort, or just playing the game, whatever works for you.
What's the most contentious is the content that should be used to obtain them, if it has to be recycled content, new stuff like field ops, or even deep dungeons, etc.

Personally I don't see myself enjoying them as long as pve and overworld based activities remain in that deplorable state. I'm on the fence with Bozja because on one hand we had potentially engaging systems like lost essences and fun endgame with CLL/Dalriada, but then we had very mid stuff like Delubrum with the thrice comes ruin bullshit, and most of all, the rest was just -drumroll- fate farming to level mettle and progress in the area to even access aforementioned content.

I also have no idea why people continue to repeat that strawman about players supposedly complaining about the time it takes, because as far as I've seen it's never been about the time it takes nor the grind, but the atma rng fiasco, or some of the debatable systems they've come with.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I am very confident I could get the relics solo in Dawntrail. I've solo'd most Critical Engagements. The FATEs are easy to solo if they aren't overscaled (and you can run away and re-engage to try and rescale HP). Full credit can be obtained from FATEs and CEs by playing a tank with stance on; no party is actually needed.

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I know i can solo Occult Crescent FATE's but problem is that they gets done in seconds by these +40 player farm groups and my only option is simply camp one of the FATE spawn locations and hope i able to get few kills before these +40 player farm groups gets in the FATE area.

I very rarely play as tank (i usually did play as paladin) currently when i started to getting massive amount of hate from healer players for not playing as tank perfectly to keep my self alive without any help from healers in normal group content.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I was able to solo each Eureka area's relic steps when they made the special item buyable, which happened after each new area was released or in 5.0. This was before we had Echo and numerous other buffs/nerfs and free elemental gear on the market board, so it's more realistic for average players to solo now.

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I started to do Eureka when the second map of Eureka got added but sadly the first map was mostly dead that even if i did spend hours looking for group, no one simply wanted me in their party and no one wanted form party with me either.
And i didn't able to buy special item to get relic gear either when getting crystals was pretty much impossible for me when i didn't able to solo almost any of the FATE's and FATE's i did able to solo, i had to kill enemies one by one while avoiding aggroing 2 or more enemies once at all cost but this was extremely slow progression when drop rate of crystals was very low, so my only option was give up trying to to Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I don't remember about Bozja. You are a bit stuck if you haven't done its initial story because then you have to find a way to get through CLL, DR and Dalriada. But I think after that it's pretty soloable.
That isn't true. In Bozja, doing 3 skirmishes in the third section of Zadnor completely restores all your EXP. Same in Occult Crescent. Moreover, these levels do not affect your attack power or incoming/outgoing damage, so it's actually irrelevant.

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I gave up trying to do Bozja pretty much instantly when i didn't even able to solo any of FATE's and even soloing very first normal enemies right outside of very first safe zone was so hard for me that i ended up losing exp lot more then i able to gain exp.

If levels dosen't matter in Occult Crescent, then why i take lot more damage and i do lot less damage to the enemies that have higher level then i do?

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I died several times solo farming gold and just continued farming it because it didn't matter. I continued soloing CEs and FATEs even if I died to one of them, because it didn't matter.
This really doesn't happen all the time. It varies a lot. For example, if people are doing a CE or FT they will probably ignore the FATEs. Or you can try to get into a dead instance or do it when less people are in the content, such as the middle of the night or when new content releases that pulls everyone away.

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My best option to do Occult Crescent solo is to either wait for next zone of Occult Crescent being added to the game which usually makes first area mostly dead or wait for next expansion that makes Occult Crescent completely dead content.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Overall, I find it hard to believe everyone would not want you in their party. So many people play this game that there are always people that don't know who you are, and will invite you regardless of what reputation you think you have. And in the worst case being a tank and producing as much enmity as you can will work, and you can level up Phantom Jobs and obtain gear to boost your damage (and thus enmity generation).

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I haven't tried to look for group in Occult Crescent because i fear getting in trouble for not doing everything perfectly which is why i haven't tried doing any of end game content since 2.0 when i tried to do The Coils of Bahamut raids and i ended up having very bad experience with it.
And trying to looking for group in Eureka was the last time i ever tried looking for group when spending multiple hours multiple times without getting any parties, i came to conclusion, that no one want me in their party and don't want form party with me.

I've done the Zodiac Brave and Anima weapon series in full for one weapon each. I don't know if I'll ever do much in Eureka. I had done most of Bozja on an older character when it was current. I have a growing stack of Manderville weapons.

The older style grind with the original two expansions is vastly superior to me in every way.

Occult Crescent turned me right off despite being a total nerd for anything involving War of the Magi lore. It should be a grind, absolutely, but I feel like I'd need to live in that zone doing nothing but barely scraping by OP enemies to get pennies towards the millions needed to actually earn anything because I wasn't there the moment it dropped.

Because of that, I haven't actually gotten to experiment with the phantom jobs there. Geomancer is one of my dream jobs for FFXIV, and I was ready to go all in on it. I'm nowhere near unlocking it.

It's not the exhilarating type of difficult, either. You just immediately die if you mess up. It just feels like the absolute worst form of DT's battle direction of warp speed reaction, body checks, and instant punishment.

But I also think the Manderville series is awful, too, as a relic. You just aren't earning it as the tomes stack up from doing most content. The storyline was great, but it just doesn't feel like a trophy.


Also they should be stronger. Just better than other options in the most current step by a bigger margin than what we usually see. Asking players to dedicate so much to a weapon that's barely better than crafted just irks me.

This topic made me re-analyze what could be my own preference to relic grind. I've done all at this point - from ARR to DT current step. Granted, being a ShB baby, I never experienced ARR, HW, and StB relics on their inception patches so my mileage could be biased. Suffice to say, both Resistance & Eureka Weapons are topping my list by miles versus any other iteration. Anima and Zodiac comes in distant 3rd and 4th, while Manderville & arguably Phantom (except demiatmas) weapons are sitting on the bottom of barrel in term of enjoyment.

I've then come to realize that whenever there's an element that introduce a shakeup to the existing garbage job gameplay, my enjoyment in aforementioned grinds skyrockets. This is why Resistance, Eureka, and MAYBE Phantom Weapon's Demiatma steps specifically would never be dethroned in my list as they have funny interactions with Logos & Lost Actions (both can also be used as money maker so an additional plus!), and maybe Phantom Cooldowns Jobs. When the job that I play can be made fun, I don't mind whatever grindy steps they toss at me, I'll do 'em. I was one of those players who refuses to farm majority of Resistance Weapon steps outside Save the Queen despite being more efficient in their inception patches.

Zodiac and Anima was a mixed bag, but I was able to find some enjoyment by trying to be efficient & resourceful when it comes to materials acquisitions i.e. not just with poetics but also beast tribe currencies, scripts, and so on. But they're bogged down by the tolerable gameplay, albeit not too long because everything was unsynced when I cleared mine.

Manderville & Phantom Weapons's 1,500 tome steps should not even exist, or at least not as the sole requirement. I will say that even DoH/L relic tools on ANY expacs were more fun than this pile of garbage. I don't know how to salvage Manderville, but there were few ways they can make Phantom Weapon acquisition better IMHO such as:

• Those Demiatmas? Keep them dropping even after clearing the first quest, so that you can trade in 1 full set for an equivalent of 200-1000 heliometry of progress (numbers are debatable). Also allow trading dupe gummies at 3:1 ratio. Suddenly the dumb RNG fiasco becomes less of a problem while also providing additional way to grind your relics.

This is honestly gonna go nowhere but Eureka, in my very personal opinion. It's still one of my favorites and probably always will be. I do know many disagree.

I see, thanks everyone for giving me so many answers. I'll be honest, I'm surprised to see so much support for OC, because the weapons being one and done is why I'm so pessimistic about future relics.

Having to work for follow up relics is usually what makes field ops populated. It's why if you go to Eureka and Bozja now, you'll find both new players and veterans running the content together. I just can't see that happening with OC, since only the first step so far even "requires" it.

However, I appreciate everyone taking the time to answer the topic. Thank you.

Anima weapon. I have all of them and I regret nothing.

If the content is boring or tedious, then the grind is not an enjoyable experience moreso than a giant quest that that makes you go "Finally!" in an annoyed tone once you're done.

This game has a big open world that's sitting mostly empty, and personally I enjoyed the books from ARR because they somewhat filled that world by sending players in it, instead of locking relics behind instances. DT's atma phase, though jank from the pure RNG without any way to play around it (seriously, no trade-ins for the extras?), still helped me see players doing fates in the new zones.

I also enjoyed the HW relic with which you could input the stats you wanted into your weapon. Options are good, even if most of the playerbase will follow the meta or what The Balance says is good.

Good lore could also help make the whole thing more interesting. I remember the Anima weapons and their questline where you essentially forged a bond with the spirit inside the weapon, which is cute. DT's I could not tell you.

I personally think Shadowbringers almost perfected the relic format after it fixed the Timeworn Artifact step (1 per DRN was rough).

Every single step of the ShB relic, excluding the first one-time grind which is the only one I have a qualm with, have both a way to complete it in a Save the Queen zone and outside of a StQ zone. This means those of us who enjoy forays are able to spend almost all of our time engaging with the content we enjoy while those who don't like forays have options for other content.

As mentioned, my biggest issue with ShB is its first one time step. It is the only step of the relic which cannot be completed within a StQ zone and forces players to do FATEs or ARs instead. I can understand why some players may not like it if they don't like StQ or any of the alternative options but I think overall it gave the best balance of choices any relic has given us before.

Perhaps the most important part of all though is how the grind actually feels. I think the ShB relics feel like a grind but almost never overstay their welcome. I think the Timeworn Artifact step still feels like a slog, though that's mostly due to the 10 minute queue for DRN when queuing with less than 28, but ever other step ends before it gets annoying.

Overall the Shadowbringers relics are my favorite relics in the game and I'd love to see them do something similar in the future.

I want them to be relic weapons. Zodiac, Anima, Eurekan, Resistance, something like that.

The devs need to stop listening to players who hate relic weapons when designing relic weapons. It's the same mistake they've been making with the job design.

I want relic weapons to be heavily tied to Field Operations or other combat content that has updates through the expansion. But I want the weapon to be relevant THERE.

Thing is, from a dilligent player standpoint, the relic weapon's power is nearly useless for most of its lifespan. Unless it's treated as a catch up, we're just collecting appearances. That's fine I guess... But let's give the Occult Crescent as an example - the Relics are thematic to the zone, they're literally called Phantom Relics. Why they don't provide any benefit in there? They should be treated the same as the Arcanaut gear, providing bonuses to the zone itself.

As for the grind, I think it should be exclusively tied to the zone. If somebody wants the relic, they should play the zone! Is not even hard, it can be played solo. I think what they nailed right now is how you only need to do the hard step once, which can be applied into the zone itself without the need of the pve currency. OC as an example again, Atma/Light/whatever for the first one, and then the rest of the value in Silver or Gold.

Aesthetic wise I'd love if those weapons retained consistency. Imagine if it's the same weapon that keeps evolving through all of its 3 iterations (with special effects added for the in-between upgrades).

Kind of hesitant on this thought, but I think the relic might be a little obsolete, and it needs to dramatically change. To me, Arkveld's reward structure highlights this. You get a free weapon coffer from normal (and extreme), and then can enhance it to the same ilevel as the augmented tome weapon using drops from the extreme. So imagine if Doomtrain normal could drop a weapon coffer, and then that weapon can be enhanced using Doomtrain extreme totems. I think having a greater variety of ways of getting high ilevel weapons is the way to go. So if there's going to be a weapon tied to a field operation then it should be considered the 'field operation weapon,' and not the relic.

Which leaves the relic in a weird spot. I think it should require some effort, but I feel like doing a bunch disjointed grinds for the sake of grinds isn't working anymore. If we are expected to work on the relic throughout the entire expansion, then I think they need to develop a system that is specific to the relic that is available to players thorough out the entire expansion. A concept that has been rattling around in my head is where you can feed experience points into the weapon to raise its ilevel, and open up materia slots. The capped augmented tome weapon also needs to change.

I don't mind easing the grind from the old relics, it should be easier with so many jobs and weapons, but I think relic weapon production should still require doing specific pieces of content with the in-progress weapon equipped. Don't want to play, say, Scholar? That's fine, but you don't get that relic, at least not until a couple expansions on when you can blitz the content requirements unsynced.

I think relic weapons should be balanced such that they completely ignore the number of classes. A relic weapon should be a goal for a class you like, not a pity catchup weapon for any class once you have the one class that you actually cared to do a relic for

As for how they should be organised it should be a grind that requires you to do current content with the class and the weapon equipped

I honestly think relics in FFXIV suck. They're not BiS until the end of the expansion and its always for some basic grind that isnt challenging just so casuals can feel good about themselves

The Bozja system is best with options to get it outside as well but such options shouldn't always be the best. One-time steps can be done either inside or outside. Also make sure the Delubrum Reginae Normal part gets updated to give more fragments and be able to be acquired in the Savage version, too, as it's the biggest roadblock.

This won't happen. But it should start at the beginning of the expansion and level with you to cap and then be updated each patch. Fates and other steps would be way more acceptable if it was at the start when people are actually doing them. Another option two fold first use allied tribes stories to tie into the weapon quest. And second unlock level cap for old dailies as the new ones would be tied to the weapon. The society quests allow for repeated grind and time gating. While not being rng annoying. Also putting players in open world zones to play together. They are also an easy adjustment with token costs if they want to speed people up through a step later in the expansion lifecycle.

Some unique buffs, like the ones they are implementing for the crafting and gathering tools, would make them stand out a lot more than the stat sticks they are. The only one I can remember is like that is the Eurika one, and only at the end you got a buff with them. I do not think having them give a buff in OC is too much to ask to at the very least give them some measure of power besides a savage weapon that is purple.

It would be cool if they did not drop in item level for Fates in DT and maps. Just give them something of an advantage connected to the expac.

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Originally Posted by Yumarox

Some unique buffs, like the ones they are implementing for the crafting and gathering tools, would make them stand out a lot more than the stat sticks they are. The only one I can remember is like that is the Eurika one, and only at the end you got a buff with them. I do not think having them give a buff in OC is too much to ask to at the very least give them some measure of power besides a savage weapon that is purple.

It would be cool if they did not drop in item level for Fates in DT and maps. Just give them something of an advantage connected to the expac.

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10 special attribute on the relics would be so damn easy to implement

I am someone who have never grinded a relic weapon, the idea of a Relic weapon is something of accomplishment a player should work for.

I severely dislike leaving things up to chance, so the journey should have no random drops included to gatekeep certain people for an arbitrary random amount of time.

There should be no mindless grinds for tomestones.

Everything that progresses the relic weapon must be done through solo-player duties / accomplishments. Get X material from X boss. I dont raid, but I would be fine if there was an incentive to collect a specific thing from an extreme trial, however drop chances of these components should be 100%.

Perhaps even incorporate reaching a specific floor of a Deep Dungeon (say if DT's relic weapon required reaching or completing the newly implemented deep dungeon) or requiring players to engage with current content like occult crescent in some manner.

I'm perfectly fine with some stages of a relic weapon being gatekept by player skill level, despite not being a hardcore player myself, because items having certain prestige does help push people into bettering themselves, which is something i can admire in an item.