Blue Mage should not be a Limit Job. Limited jobs shouldn't exist.

Love time Final Fantasy Player but still new to FF14. Been loving playing the game and how diverse the jobs that can be played in this game. The one thing that has been bothering me though is that Blue Mage is a limited job! It has been a mainstay in the franchise for years and I know it has a special gimmick but I think it shouldn't be unviable to play for all content.

Yes that means it will probably be a rework but I hate the idea of these limited jobs that are fun but can only be used for certain content. If a job is going to be included it should be able to handle all the content and the devs should be able to figure out what that looks like. I'm mostly just ranting because I love the blue mage job and wish I could main it but that is impossible as it stands now.

In my experience, the main thing that makes BLU unviable is the primal abilities. And I really do not think those are necessary - in fact, they are stepping on the toes of Summoner, which is the job that should be using primal abilities.

Now you might say "what about Tail Screw" which reduces enemies to 1 HP or Doom, but anyone that has played BLU for long knows these do not work on bosses (obviously if they work on a few boss FATEs it's because SE forgot to classify them as such).

Final Sting can be an issue, but if they scale everything properly, this wouldn't be an issue and would simply be their finisher. In the past, having a single BLU in a raid party hasn't made much difference and it's 8 of them coordinating a Final Sting, for example, that unbalances it.

In any case, having done BLU raiding, it's fun. Not many people do it, but I guarantee that if you can get a static together it's tons of fun because you can customize your setup depending on strat or preference, which no other job in the game can do.

It's just not going to happen at this point. the best they could do is split blue mage into two job stones, because the limited job has its own thing going on and is wholly differently designed from anything else. I wouldn't count on it ever happening though.

But it seems enough people are happy with "limited jobs" that we're even getting another.

The biggest issue with making BLU into a regular job in XIV is that it'd more or less just be a slightly different flavor of Black Mage.

And they'd have to get rid of a good amount of spells... Stuff like Final Sting, White Wind, Bad Breath, anything that causes statuses like Frozen, Paralysis or Petrify, Level 5 Death... And others depending on what role they would want it to be...

And also have what few spells remain be learned by level up instead of the standard BLU method of learning from enemies.

It's a dilemma IMHO.

BLU is fun. But the day they decided it should not be a limited job anymore they'd most likely take out all what makes the job fun, because it doesn't adhere to their strictly crafted DDR + 2m burst rodeo.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

And they'd have to get rid of a good amount of spells... Stuff like Final Sting, White Wind, Bad Breath, anything that causes statuses like Frozen, Paralysis or Petrify, Level 5 Death... And others depending on what role they would want it to be...

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I don't agree. White Wind doesn't really unbalance anything in a world where every job has heal abilities, including WAR, PLD, DNC, didn't MNK get one now? and didn't we get a healer-less M4S run?

We can also use the Red Mage argument: they can use Vercure, but it's not socially accepted to do it unless everyone's on the brink of wiping anyway and at that point, it's only got a small chance of salvaging the pull.

Bad Breath, Frozen, Paralysis, Petrify and Level 5 Death would simply not function on bosses. The only one of those things that even functions on bosses, as far as I know, is the damage down from Bad Breath. Realistically, that is comparable to Reprisal and they could just give it a temporary immunity like stuns have to balance it with Reprisal. Even then, you could argue that if the entire party rotates Reprisal/Addle/Feint/Raidwide mit it produces a similar to maintaining Bad Breath.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

We can also use the Red Mage argument: they can use Vercure, but it's not socially accepted to do it unless everyone's on the brink of wiping anyway and at that point, it's only got a small chance of salvaging the pull.

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They'd have Pom Cure.

But if you really wanted to balance White Wind as a regular job ability, it'd need to have like a 3 minute cooldown at least, same as Benediction on WHM.

Blue Mage is fun because it's weird and busted. If it were made a regular job it would be sanded down until it's as boring as all the other jobs currently are. No thanks.

If anything the gap between BLU and other Jobs need to be made wider to justify its "Limited" moniker, level 80 BLU is not as powerful compared to level 80 Jobs as level 70 BLU was to level 70 Jobs, and then there is the issue of BLU Tanking sucking ass to this day, so that could also afford to be buffed.

Agreed. Limited Jobs should have two modes: a normal one in which they behave like any other job and their current limited mode in which they can do what they've always done.

The normal mode could have skins for the abilities, such as being able to choose which type of Water Cannon variant you want to visually use.

While fun, you cannot do much with them. They don't have their own roulettes, Deep Dungeons, Field Operations or PvP and they even lost one of the things that made them useful when the Moogle tomestone events were updated.

I have been saying this since it was implemented. But you'll have people rush in that don't actively understand how to fix it, or claiming that it can't be done because it can't be balanced. It can be.

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Originally Posted by Aco505

Agreed. Limited Jobs should have two modes: a normal one in which they behave like any other job and their current limited mode in which they can do what they've always done.

The normal mode could have skins for the abilities, such as being able to choose which type of Water Cannon variant you want to visually use.

While fun, you cannot do much with them. They don't have their own roulettes, Deep Dungeons, Field Operations or PvP and they even lost one of the things that made them useful when the Moogle tomestone events were updated.

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This is one way, and probably the better way to do it. No one loses, and something is gained. However you'll have people run in here and start complaining "oh they can't do that because it won't be unique" or any other situation they can think of. It really ends up becoming that they, simply put, don't want more people, for some reason, to enjoy something that they themselves like because they think it will take that away from them.

The limited system has been a hindrance, wasted potential, and wasted time just so they can add classes people want without having to work on them, or improve the game so that they work as intended.

Edit: They came just like I said they would.

I like BLU exactly because it's different from other jobs! :(
(But I wouldn't mind if they stripped the Primal spells from BLU and gave the exact mechanic of spell learning to SMN, it would make 100% more sense for those specific spells)


The devs have a few routes if they wished to make it into a regular job:

1) Rework it in the traditional sense and make it play similar to other mDPS jobs. This would probably be the case, get a single and aoe combo based on different types of monster spells, and that'll be the end of it. Would just feel like a different version of BLM.

2) Keep the mechanic of getting spells. This one would be fun if they can pull it off since you're goal to play BLU would still revolve around getting spells through all types of content, but it might lead to players not accepting certain BLU in their parties because "you don't have spell X", or making it feel unfair from other jobs like BLM who gets all their spells from the get go without extra effort (gil cost in the case of FFXI)

3) Split BLU into a Normal and Limited mode as @Aco505 mentioned. Create a traditional variant of BLU for regular play and keep the carnival and spell collecting for the limited version. This might end up a bit messy since then they'd have to maintain two jobs effectively, and they'd feel very different from eachother even though they're the same job :(


I don't know which would be best for them, but BLU's main asset is its unique gameplay. Reducing it to a simple do job quest every X level for new spell and no flexibility in play would be disheartening.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

It's a dilemma IMHO.

BLU is fun. But the day they decided it should not be a limited job anymore they'd most likely take out all what makes the job fun, because it doesn't adhere to their strictly crafted DDR + 2m burst rodeo.

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Ah yes blu is fun. It is so popular to play so i am jealous of all those blue mage pfs i can't join.

Good luck, I've been barking up this tree for the past couple expansions.

I've said more than a couple times that they could have made a current content-ready, "normal" version of the job and the ability to turn on it's Limited status to include everything it is now, while capping it's level and barring it from DF; the same restrictions it has now. Limited still retains it's unique and bloated job spell list and access to Carnival and achievement challenges, while the "Normal" version has the traditional and balanced skills just like other jobs with balanced (or new) spells to perform whatever it is they deigned to want BLU to do. It takes nothing away from people who enjoy BLU as it is now.

The idea of it turning into a different flavor of BLM or something is a rather short-sighted take; in that sense I don't see why they should have bothered adding another caster at all if that's what you felt, but PCT exists and I didn't see anybody complaining about PCT just being a different flavor of BLM. It's always going to come down to what mechanics or job gauge gimmick they pick for it.

If you ask me, the current Limited BLU, with it's large selection of spells, still somehow ends up being set with mostly rigid "must-have" spells and a largely universal rotation outside of niche situations. Most other spells seemed pigeonholed into just being a solution to 1 or 2 Carnival challenges, as most other content doesn't call for any innovative set-ups, just damage while being able to memorize the fight's mechanics. Even the super-gimmicky "over-powered" spells the devs found absolutely necessary to have BLUs learn don't even really work on trial/raid bosses, let alone FATE bosses and some mobs beyond HW. And even the spell learning system that Yoshida found absolutely necessary to define BLU's identity started out as one of the more frustrating systems implemented in FFXIV that required several adjustments just to become reasonable.

It kinda stings a little to see BLU all over max-level casting gear; I feel like the job as a whole is basically right there ready to go, with all it's /victorypose /battlestance flair, weapon design contest inclusions and SE store merch... The only thing holding it back being a balanced skillset and a job gauge.

I don't even know why BLU couldn't be in this current iteration of PVP at the bare minimum. PvE skillsets are largely divorced from their minimalist PvP skillsets, with many abilities only existing for PvP like WHM's Miracle of Nature polymorph or AST's RPR dash. As role-agnostic as PvP is trying to be, BLU would have been perfect with a few damage spells/abilities, a support ability or two and a couple abilities with CC. Heck, GNB's tank/healer/dps junctions would've made more sense on a BLU.

I am more than happy to have limited jobs if it means more things like BLU.
I don't want another cookie cutter DPS job when instead we can have a whole adventure out there learning skills and whatnot.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I don't agree. White Wind doesn't really unbalance anything in a world where every job has heal abilities, including WAR, PLD, DNC, didn't MNK get one now? and didn't we get a healer-less M4S run?

We can also use the Red Mage argument: they can use Vercure, but it's not socially accepted to do it unless everyone's on the brink of wiping anyway and at that point, it's only got a small chance of salvaging the pull.

Bad Breath, Frozen, Paralysis, Petrify and Level 5 Death would simply not function on bosses. The only one of those things that even functions on bosses, as far as I know, is the damage down from Bad Breath. Realistically, that is comparable to Reprisal and they could just give it a temporary immunity like stuns have to balance it with Reprisal. Even then, you could argue that if the entire party rotates Reprisal/Addle/Feint/Raidwide mit it produces a similar to maintaining Bad Breath.

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White Wind as it is, defnitely would causa balancing issues, especially paired with a Swiftcast. That's an extremely stong AoE heal even with the BLU at half health.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

White Wind as it is, defnitely would causa balancing issues, especially paired with a Swiftcast. That's an extremely stong AoE heal even with the BLU at half health.

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It's also the best enmity generator in the game lmao

Oh I hate it, too.

The monster skills could've been set up as part of the questline to explain why we learn certain skills. The fact that the devs draw the line at "respecting the traditional FF image of a job" here when that didn't stop them from doing some wacky stuff with other old jobs really bothers me , too. Our version of Dragoon is a dragon *slayer.* Astrologian pulls from both Time Mage and Geomancer. Black Mage only uses specific elements. Summoner in general has never played anything like other FF summoners in any form it's taken. The idea that the buck stops at Blue, and now Beast Master is so weird to me, and I hate it for players that dreamed of those jobs. (Forever salty GEO was rolled into AST so poorly. Whyyyyy....)

It can be limited Job, just allow it on ultimate... Who cares if ucob is cleared with blue mage, it can be cleared with only 6 people

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Originally Posted by Eastwall

It can be limited Job, just allow it on ultimate... Who cares if ucob is cleared with blue mage, it can be cleared with only 6 people

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Only if the title for clearing Ultima is "True Bluwu" lol

The result of making Blue Mage a regular job would be a standarized husk of its former self that, at best, no one would care about any more that they would for the rest of the caster jobs. In other words, a waste of time where no one ends up winning all so we can say BLU can be used in current content.

Not to mention that the sole fun of BLU was literally about collecting spells and that any attempt of turning that into a regular job would likely be "same spell, different visual effect" which nothing but a placebo.

BLU is not meant to be a conventional job, it's meant to be its own kind of content. And we don't need to kill content. We need to nurture content and improve upon it. Increase the possibilities for BLU as a Limited Job, be it with more Carnival fights beyond the story one. Hell, I would be all for making Eureka accesible for BLU taking into account their customization options. Just drop it with pretending that standarizing BLU won't be an idea we all would regret should it come to pass.

They missed out on a huge opportunity with both blu and dnc by not making them classes that can play any role, by simply forcing them to select a role prior to taking a duty. No need to change stats, abilities, etc, just make them either generate enmity, heal or do dmg like they do now. Maybe change one or two to stun instead of doing dmg or other tanky things. They complain about all these jobs, but this would seriously cut down on the amount of work they need to do. And a few all rounder jobs would be something new and very interesting.

But for real, the only reason blu wouldn't work as a standard job is because ppl would just not bother hunting spells and be in lvl 100 content with only Water Cannon and then cry and throw a fit when they were booted out of a party. You know, the ppl who don't want to put in any work and just be handed everything, aka the reason we can't have nice things in mmos anymore.

I honestly understand the frustration of people who'd like the job to be 'normal'. I wouldn't mind if it was, really, but I try to enjoy it for what it is - and on that regard I don't dislike it, however...

Blue Mages need a better daily "ready-to-play" content structure. Something that you can log, swap to the job, and do right away without the hassle of setting Party Finder groups that never fill when we're not at their update patches. When you log in and switch to a regular job, you can do roulettes, you can do side content duties, you can do the MSQ if you're due, you can do PVP - you can join those almost instantly, maybe save for a few minutes on a queue.

The only real thing a Blue Mage can do readily is the Carnivale. However, almost all of those repeatable objectives are the very essence of puzzle based fights, and to me personally they aren't fun to redo. If you don't need Allied Seals anymore, there's very little reason to keep reclearing them.

The solutions:

1) The easiest one - let Blue Mages get credit for the Log objectives if done solo. I'd say it's even more engaging than with a group because even with Basic Instinct, you still need a good amount of strategy and spell selection to deal with the trash and bosses, since the 1-hit KO spells have cooldowns.

2) Been said again and again by others, but let Blue Mages solo Deep Dungeons for their own achievement and scoreboard. If balancing against other jobs is a problem, there's a solution that'd require more production involvement: the caster can only use an exclusive Deep Dungeon spellbook that you fill as you go with enemies, bosses and maybe RNG silver chest tokens.

3) Add Blue Mages to the PVP roster. There's no conceptual reason why they would not given that every single job is drastically changed to fit there - sometimes even straying from their PVE job fantasies.

Every, or any, of these would add a new breath of life into the job, especially outside of their patch update periods.

consider bluemage as minigame gimmick and not as "class"

its fun to have and a nice addtitional side content as it is

Personally, I think they should let BLU reach the max level (100) and be able to enter any content, including Savage and Ultimate, but regular achievements and loot is disabled if there is a BLU in the party. And keeping the duty finder limitations that they need to go in as a pre-made group.

For Deep Dungeons, just having a separate BLU scoreboard would work.

Really the biggest problems would probably arise from Eureka, Bozja and OC if they allowed BLU as then you'd pretty much just be trolling if you didn't use BLU to do them.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

consider bluemage as minigame gimmick and not as "class"

its fun to have and a nice addtitional side content as it is

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Best way to view it. It's extra side content to do as a break from the main form of content! :D

Nop need to keep Blue as it is, cant have a class that can solo, status lock and instant death mobs. Remove that and you lose the purpose of its existance.

Its a fun gimmicky broken job which gives a second life to older content and gives me a way to solo older maps, removing it removes too much value to the game for the gain of a single caster job.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Personally, I think they should let BLU reach the max level (100) and be able to enter any content, including Savage and Ultimate, but regular achievements and loot is disabled if there is a BLU in the party. And keeping the duty finder limitations that they need to go in as a pre-made group.

For Deep Dungeons, just having a separate BLU scoreboard would work.

Really the biggest problems would probably arise from Eureka, Bozja and OC if they allowed BLU as then you'd pretty much just be trolling if you didn't use BLU to do them.

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No that would make any of that content ridiculously easy on release.

I swear all of these "just do this" comments have no broad view of balancing in the game.

Put blue mage in any new content and every dps worth its salt will play it. Its damage output is RIDICULOUS. Thats why people are using it to spam older fates in relic steps

Put blue mage in deep dungeons and you have a single ranged player worth 4 players, with access to all sleeps, stuns (petrify, frozen), interruptions, pulls, diamondback, instant deaths, with basic instincts boost to damage AND healing that will make the healing over time potion probably tick near 60% of the blue mage total HP. Solo clears on day one, content dead on day 7.

Put blue mage in savage prog? 2 tanks, 2heals, 4 blue mage composition to explode tru any dps checks, once you get the fight down, redo with standard comp.

Its fine for older content cuz its fun, but it makes no sense in new content.

I wouldnt have a problem with limited jobs if they had a limited version and a standard version of the job, but I guess that would be too much work.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

No that would make any of that content ridiculously easy on release.

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That's why I said that it should disable loot if there's a BLU present in the party. Like you could use BLU to clear stuff but doing so locks everyone present out of the rewards. Maybe even activate Savage's weekly lock on loot without getting to roll on gear or getting your weekly token.

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Originally Posted by LegendWait

Put blue mage in deep dungeons and you have a single ranged player worth 4 players, with access to all sleeps, stuns (petrify, frozen), interruptions, pulls, diamondback, instant deaths, with basic instincts boost to damage AND healing that will make the healing over time potion probably tick near 60% of the blue mage total HP. Solo clears on day one, content dead on day 7.

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Once again, have it on a separate scoreboard and maybe have a different achievement for clearing them as a solo BLU. You definitely shouldn't get Necromancer, or Lone Hero, or whatever the EW one gives from doing it as a BLU.

The larger issue would be normal content, if it was a normal job but still retained the spell obtaining mechanics you could get a Blue Mage in your dungeon/trial/etc missing 90% of their kit. They’d also have to take the teeth out of most of the spells to be viable for balance issues.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Maybe even activate Savage's weekly lock on loot without getting to roll on gear or getting your weekly token.

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See, the first half of the suggestion was great, let people play around with the busted gimmicky Job for the love of the game(also assuming spells from content up to level 100 would be available), that's great as someone who thinks more MMO players should engage with things for fun of it and not because it has a specific reward, but why would you possibly penalize someone for engaging with it? say someone's static raids Fri-Sat-Sun, very reasonable days since that's the weekend, but they have more free time than that, and hang out in a BLU-focused Discord, the Discord people want to fuck around in the Savage earlier in the week, this person wouldn't be able to join because of that, and it would just suck as a result.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

That's why I said that it should disable loot if there's a BLU present in the party. Like you could use BLU to clear stuff but doing so locks everyone present out of the rewards. Maybe even activate Savage's weekly lock on loot without getting to roll on gear or getting your weekly token.

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So what's the point of removing limitation on blue mage if you just going to put limitation on its loots and clear values?

If you let people have their achievement clear with no gear, a solid portion of the achievement hunters community will simply rush to 10 clears on week one with crafted gear, because gear has no value. Reducing the pool of player in PF.

If you let people have no achievement and not loot, it loses all value, except for rushing world first prog points, which will make the entire thing irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Once again, have it on a separate scoreboard and maybe have a different achievement for clearing them as a solo BLU. You definitely shouldn't get Necromancer, or Lone Hero, or whatever the EW one gives from doing it as a BLU.

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Maybe have that enabled for past deep dungeons? Like the current blue mage model? Also what about the DD economy around mount? Youll have bot farming in no time.

Your idea has no upsides.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Blue Mage is fun because it's weird and busted. If it were made a regular job it would be sanded down until it's as boring as all the other jobs currently are. No thanks.

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Well, I can conceive of a way to keep Blue Mage a limited job and continuing to be fun while also making it a regular job that is more balanced, like the others. Just let Blue Mage queue into regular content, and once it does, it could just have a preset amount of skills, depending on the level it syncs to, and have those spells produce an appropriate amount of damage/healing. That would only occur if you queued into regular content, then once back out you'd have access to the full range of spells once again.

Honestly I'd just wish they gave us more unique spells for Blue mage. Getting another 200-220 potency (that loses 50% potency on non-first targets for AoE) spells is just.. boring.
They can literally use Blue to prototype all kinds of wacky and fun effects exactly because it's limited and wouldn't break balance in regular content, but they go with meh effects.

This was also my issue with Phantom Jobs, and phantom jobs could've been even more wild because it was strictly restricted to OC, but they went with 1% crit increase for 30s and the likes -.-

And they are adding another limited job, which i think is a waste of resources . its gonna be a thing at release and then more or less abandoned , maybe some yearly update...I'd rather have a normal pet class, bc rn game has no pet class, summoner whatever it is now, doesn't feel like a pet class.

They would have to dumb down and take away all the uniqueness from Blue Mage to make it a regular job. Having to come up with clever ways to deal with certain mechanics or being able to skip others is what makes them so interesting and why they won't work in current content.

It would be nice if they expanded the kind of content they could do, though. I've love to be able to take them into deep dungeons with Basic Instinct disabled and its own separate leaderboard and achievements, or go into Eureka but with the Magia Board disabled, forcing you to exploit elemental weaknesses with what you got available.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

2) Been said again and again by others, but let Blue Mages solo Deep Dungeons for their own achievement and scoreboard. If balancing against other jobs is a problem, there's a solution that'd require more production involvement: the caster can only use an exclusive Deep Dungeon spellbook that you fill as you go with enemies, bosses and maybe RNG silver chest tokens.

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I actually really like this idea.

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Originally Posted by Edweirdo

And they are adding another limited job, which i think is a waste of resources . its gonna be a thing at release and then more or less abandoned , maybe some yearly update...I'd rather have a normal pet class, bc rn game has no pet class, summoner whatever it is now, doesn't feel like a pet class.

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If it's anything like BLU, it'll have a tiny niche fanbase and get harder and harder to get into as time passes. :(