2 Person Premades in Casual Crystalline Conflict?

Apparently the next patch will bring the option to play Crystalline Conflict (casual) with a 2 person premade. I know premades have been a hot topic in Frontlines and Rival Wings. Do ya'll think they will be a big issue in Crystalline Conflict? How impactful do you think this will be?

The biggest impact in casual CC will continue to be which team gets the person that can't press recuperate.

Premades are the single biggest problem in pvp and should be removed. Archievment hunters will abuse this, and strong pairs will have about 90% winrate in casual matches.

Got my wings of fire last mog event. Usually you had one rw match going on and you soon came to know which strong players are playing. At the start of the match you can see which players and premades are on your side, and thus know which are against you. You can then tell which side will dominate or if it's gona be a fair match whit about 80-90% accuracy. So you often know the result of the match at the start, making the match itself completely pointless.

We have the same problem in cc a little allready. Early if there is only one match going and couple strong players, the matches can be predetermined. 2 player premades gona be horrible.

Remember: Strong premades have over 80% winrate. That means other people have under 50% combined(33 fl). Math.

Limiting it to two players as a good move. You can still play it with a friend, but don't get stuff like the full stack premades Guild Wars 2 lets you make in unranked for some god forsaken reason.

It’s clear that no matter what Square Enix does, a portion of the community will always be dissatisfied.
I recall multiple threads where players specifically requested a team queue option for casual matches.
No matter what choice they make, someone is bound to be unhappy.

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Originally Posted by MogHunter

Premades are the single biggest problem in pvp and should be removed. Archievment hunters will abuse this, and strong pairs will have about 90% winrate in casual matches.

Got my wings of fire last mog event. Usually you had one rw match going on and you soon came to know which strong players are playing. At the start of the match you can see which players and premades are on your side, and thus know which are against you. You can then tell which side will dominate or if it's gona be a fair match whit about 80-90% accuracy. So you often know the result of the match at the start, making the match itself completely pointless.

We have the same problem in cc a little allready. Early if there is only one match going and couple strong players, the matches can be predetermined. 2 player premades gona be horrible.

Remember: Strong premades have over 80% winrate. That means other people have under 50% combined(33 fl). Math.

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You could do it too, just saying.

If two good players pair together I can see how it can severely influence the outcome of a game, provided the matchmaking doesn't account for it. Right now it definitely accounts for a good player, especially ranked, in that it tries to make up for it by pairing the weakest players with them (especially that one player that doesn't press recup and will anchor the game).
How will it go when 2 players are paired together? I don't know but if nothing changes, 2 ranked players in a duo will probably literally get all the weakest players in their team, but if this is 2 good unranked players, then I don't know. That's why I came up with the idea multiple times to have the matchmaking only field a dual premade if there is another in the other team, but idk. We'll see I guess?

It sucks that it is solo queue only, But concern with steamroll is well warranted. In gw2's unranked 5v5, you can queue In as 5 stacks. There are instance my team got farmed So hard by a sweaty 5 stacks So We just sit in spawn. Then the 5 stacks started to throwing put insults to try to get us to leave the spawn. I just left my computer to get a cup of drink. Although it is only duos queue, it is still somewhat concerning. I guess nothing is only going to be only positive

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Originally Posted by Eastwall

It sucks that it is solo queue only, But concern with steamroll is well warranted. In gw2's unranked 5v5, you can queue In as 5 stacks. There are instance my team got farmed So hard by a sweaty 5 stacks So We just sit in spawn. Then the 5 stacks started to throwing put insults to try to get us to leave the spawn. I just left my computer to get a cup of drink. Although it is only duos queue, it is still somewhat concerning. I guess nothing is only going to be only positive

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This was my main concern as well if we looked at the flipside of the coin. I'm sure the ability to be able to queue casuals with friends will be well received by the majority, but I also did consider the other side of the spectrum in which a few bad apples could exhibit bad etiquette/manners in CC.

Having duo que is the best opportunity players could ever have to get help and coaching to learn the game mode imo. I was hoping they'd add this so that I can help more of my friends/FC to learn by watching what they are doing every game and giving feedback.

Now I have a reason to actually play Crystal Conflict.

No to premades, it would hurt the community hard.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

No to premades, it would hurt the community hard.

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I'm already feeling the heat. Yesterday and some days before while playing, I went up against a WHM and a DPS protecting them as they were probably organizing their team to dogpile rushdown all of us. You couldn't touch the WHM unless everyone just tossed their ults at them and you couldn't kill the team since they were extremely competent. Absolute sweatfest in Casual CC that I only managed to win against them when I had a pre-made which both of us were zoning them out. Its casual, I shouldn't be doing sweaty straits just to not get smeared every time I go into a casual match.

If class balancing wasn't a mess across the board with Healers still having 0 Cost heals, rampant CC chaining with classes having more than 1 hard CC sometimes, Animation Delays on attacks, and poor class design in some parts then maybe Duo would actually be a more fun thing than a sweaty thing.

I think since CC has two different lobbies, one casual, and one for rank, I think it's legitimate to keep pre-mades in casual so we can have fun. So luckily for those that don't want pre-mades, they can play ranked CC. This coming from a new player that would like to play with their friends. (Which, it's just one friend, but it would be nice to practice PVP with a friend, or hey, how about them guiding you and you learning from them, because that's also what I need)

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Originally Posted by Elephantality

I think since CC has two different lobbies, one casual, and one for rank, I think it's legitimate to keep pre-mades in casual so we can have fun. So luckily for those that don't want pre-mades, they can play ranked CC. This coming from a new player that would like to play with their friends. (Which, it's just one friend, but it would be nice to practice PVP with a friend, or hey, how about them guiding you and you learning from them, because that's also what I need)

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there is a teams setting I believe, in standard ranked anything pre-made has nothing to do there either.

was about time, its bafflign to me that in a TEAM BASED pvp mode you cannot enter as a premade

I got into CC because of this change, being able to jump in with my friends is fun.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

there is a teams setting I believe, in standard ranked anything pre-made has nothing to do there either.

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your takes are funny please continue

As someone who plays PVP very casually, I'm glad I can finally queue with a friend and we can both flail around together. In the 'casual' setting with no ranks, I think people like us being able to have fun together should be allowed. I feel more motivated to try the mode out when I have a friend as lost as I am with it lol

Premades are perhaps the single biggest reason PvP is a dead gamemode, but if this increases CC player amounts, then great.

Crystal Conflicts new casual duos is the best thing to happen this year, offering good rewards to grind for, honestly hope they add for person ques. The Chaos of casuals has really been a highlight heck people who ignored the pvp modes are playing it rn that's a win right there

Duo que has been the best thing they added to pvp xD

it's up there in good qol like running and mounting or the dang on glamour dresser xD

"premades are the problem"Let's dissect this logically lol.

Your core argument hinges on a flawed mathematical premise. You state that strong premades have an 80% win rate, meaning the combined win rate for the other 6 players must be under 50%. This isn't "math," it's a miscalculation. You're treating a zero sum game as if the losing team's win rate is a pie to be divided equally. It doesn't work that way. Every loss for one team is a win for another. The system's average win rate is always 50%. The existence of a high winrate premade doesn't force others below 50%; it simply means those players become the variable that loses to the premade more often, while presumably winning more against other solo players when that premade isn't in the match.

Your complaint about predictability is less about premades and more about skill-based matchmaking or FFXIV's lack thereof in casual modes. In any game with a loose MMR, from Call of Duty to Apex Legends, recognizing a top-tier player's name at the start often signals an uphill battle. This happens in solo queue too. The issue isn't the party, it's the skill gap the matchmaker failed to account for.

Comparing to truly competitive games debunks your entire premise. Overwatch and League of Legends not only allow but encourage premades in their casual modes because coordinating with friends is a core social aspect of multiplayer games. They rely on robust SBMM to balance teams. The problem you're identifying is that FFXIV's casual PVP prioritizes fast queues over balanced matches, making any group of skilled players premade or not feel oppressive.

Banning premades wouldn't solve your problem. It would just make those "strong pairs" you recognize roll you as random teammates instead of coordinated ones. You'd still know you'd lost at the character select screen; you'd just have someone to blame besides a party. You're not arguing against premades; you're arguing against playing against players better than you, which is an unsolvable problem for any PVP mode.

I'm very active in Ranked, and it's always the same game for me. I either get new players on my team and get absolutely rolled over because it's basically a 4v5, or I get lucky with my teammates.

Premades give players who want to achieve their goals the power to reduce the queue RNG and to motivate more people to play PvP. It's a fun group activity, and if you really want a solo queue, then go play Ranked.

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Originally Posted by MogHunter

Premades are perhaps the single biggest reason PvP is a dead gamemode, but if this increases CC player amounts, then great.

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I think having one mode for (premade) and one for (solo) is healthy actually. I think having one without the other might hurt PVP. (Plus I would prefer to have solo queue's as well so I can practice my individual skill)

Alright, so if I want to play with my casual friends I just have to eat a crow and queue up for the sweaty premade queue? Are you serious? Best way to make my friends stop queuing in a group altogether, for sure. Good idea right there.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Alright, so if I want to play with my casual friends I just have to eat a crow and queue up for the sweaty premade queue? Are you serious? Best way to make my friends stop queuing in a group altogether, for sure. Good idea right there.

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imagine if people wanna play together to have atleats a tiny bit of consistency in their PVP matches

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Originally Posted by RedAkihabara

"premades are the problem"Let's dissect this logically lol.

Your core argument hinges on a flawed mathematical premise. You state that strong premades have an 80% win rate, meaning the combined win rate for the other 6 players must be under 50%. This isn't "math," it's a miscalculation. You're treating a zero sum game as if the losing team's win rate is a pie to be divided equally. It doesn't work that way. Every loss for one team is a win for another. The system's average win rate is always 50%. The existence of a high winrate premade doesn't force others below 50%; it simply means those players become the variable that loses to the premade more often, while presumably winning more against other solo players when that premade isn't in the match.

Your complaint about predictability is less about premades and more about skill-based matchmaking or FFXIV's lack thereof in casual modes. In any game with a loose MMR, from Call of Duty to Apex Legends, recognizing a top-tier player's name at the start often signals an uphill battle. This happens in solo queue too. The issue isn't the party, it's the skill gap the matchmaker failed to account for.

Comparing to truly competitive games debunks your entire premise. Overwatch and League of Legends not only allow but encourage premades in their casual modes because coordinating with friends is a core social aspect of multiplayer games. They rely on robust SBMM to balance teams. The problem you're identifying is that FFXIV's casual PVP prioritizes fast queues over balanced matches, making any group of skilled players premade or not feel oppressive.

Banning premades wouldn't solve your problem. It would just make those "strong pairs" you recognize roll you as random teammates instead of coordinated ones. You'd still know you'd lost at the character select screen; you'd just have someone to blame besides a party. You're not arguing against premades; you're arguing against playing against players better than you, which is an unsolvable problem for any PVP mode.

I'm very active in Ranked, and it's always the same game for me. I either get new players on my team and get absolutely rolled over because it's basically a 4v5, or I get lucky with my teammates.

Premades give players who want to achieve their goals the power to reduce the queue RNG and to motivate more people to play PvP. It's a fun group activity, and if you really want a solo queue, then go play Ranked.

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-Math:
It is a zero sum game because: The system's average win rate is always 50%.

We devide players in two groups. Pro premades and everyone else.

If premades have 80% winrate, then everyone else must have <50% winrate. Otherwise system's avarege would be >50%.

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Originally Posted by MogHunter

-Math:
It is a zero sum game because: The system's average win rate is always 50%.

We devide players in two groups. Pro premades and everyone else.

If premades have 80% winrate, then everyone else must have <50% winrate. Otherwise system's avarege would be >50%.

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Your math is based on a critical error in grouping. You're treating the matchmaking pool as two separate, permanent teams: "Premades" vs. "Everyone Else." This is incorrect.

The "Everyone Else" group is not a monolithic team that only plays against premades. They primarily play against each other. Here's the accurate breakdown:

Premades have an 80% win rate in the matches they play.

The remaining players are in a much larger pool of matches where no premade is present. In these games, their collective win rate will average to 50%.

The system's 50% average is maintained because the premades' inflated win rate is balanced by the losses of the specific teams that happen to face them, not by suppressing the entire non-premade population's win rate below 50%. The "pie" isn't divided between two static groups; it's distributed across thousands of individual match instances.

Your core issue isn't premades it's poor matchmaking balance. The system fails to account for the coordination advantage of a premade by adjusting the average MMR of the opposing team. A duo of Crystal players should not be matched against a team of five solo Silvers. The problem is the algorithm, not the party itself.

Removing premades doesn't solve this; it just removes a major incentive for social players to queue. The solution is to improve the matchmaker to create fairer matches around premades, which is what every other successful PvP game does. The goal should be to fix the system, not remove its most popular feature.

My math is usually correct, cause i have masters degree in it.

Grouping people in strong premades and solo players is very valid, when strong premades are ruining the game for others. Strong premades push others to have compined <50% winrate. This is a simple mathematical fact.

-The remaining players are in a much larger pool of matches where no premade is present. In these games, their collective win rate will average to 50%.

So your grouping people in to strong premades and everyone who has ever played a gainst them, and a group of magical casuals who have never played against a premade. Yes, people who have never played against a strong premade have not their winrate affected by them.

+ the dip in winrate is not the main issue. Playing against premade is horibble.

The goal shouldn't be to fix the system, instead remove premades. Square gave up on pvp a decade a go. They haven't fixed matchmaking this far and won't. There are easy improvements that we could have even in this maintenance mode. Remove premades, randomize teams(rw), remove samurai lb and remove battle high. Tweak an ini file, change some ones in to zeros. Instead they added premades in to CC, facepalm.

Pre-Made's and Duo-Queue wouldn't be considered an issue if PvP Balance wasn't the way it was. I have had some poor experience against Duo folks but like, I wouldn't care if the classes they were playing weren't stupid to fight. Duo can bring more people in to play PvP together and show off the issues on display, then maybe bring more people into the discussion that things aren't balanced.

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Originally Posted by MogHunter

My math is usually correct, cause i have masters degree in it.

The goal shouldn't be to fix the system, instead remove premades. Square gave up on pvp a decade a go. They haven't fixed matchmaking this far and won't. There are easy improvements that we could have even in this maintenance mode. Remove premades, randomize teams(rw), remove samurai lb and remove battle high. Tweak an ini file, change some ones in to zeros. Instead they added premades in to CC, facepalm.

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A credential "masters degree" is no substitute for sound logic. Your reasoning contains a fundamental error in applying mathematical principles to a dynamic system.

Your core fallacy is in your grouping. You claim that if strong premades have an 80% win rate, the combined win rate of everyone else must be below 50%. This is only true if "everyone else" played exclusively and constantly against premades. They do not. The matchmaking pool is a spectrum, not a binary. A more accurate model is:

Group A: Strong Premades (e.g., 5% of the population, 80% win rate)

Group B: Players in matches affected by Group A (e.g., 20% of the population at any time). Their win rate against the premades is low.

Group C: The remaining majority of players (75% of the population) in matches without a strong premade. Their win rate averages 50%.

The system wide average remains 50% because Group A's high win rate is offset by the temporary losses of the specific players in Group B when they face them, not by permanently suppressing the win rate of the entire non premade population. You are conflating a localized effect with a global average. This is a critical oversight for someone touting a math background.

"Remove premades": This would kill the social aspect that motivates a huge portion of the player base to queue. You are advocating for a solution that would shrink the population even further, making every problem you described worse.

The goal should always be to fix the system, not remove its features. Every other successful competitive game builds its entire social framework around playing with friends. They use skill based matchmaking to balance premades against appropriately skilled opponents. The problem isn't the premade it's FFXIV's inability to create a fair match around it.

Your argument boils down to: "The system is broken, so we should break it more by removing what people enjoy." That is a defeatist stance that guarantees the mode's stagnation. The rational path is to demand a competent matchmaker that can accommodate team play, not to lobotomize the mode into a sterile, solitary experience because the current implementation is flawed.

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Originally Posted by MogHunter

My math is usually correct, cause i have masters degree in it.

Grouping people in strong premades and solo players is very valid, when strong premades are ruining the game for others. Strong premades push others to have compined <50% winrate. This is a simple mathematical fact.

-The remaining players are in a much larger pool of matches where no premade is present. In these games, their collective win rate will average to 50%.

So your grouping people in to strong premades and everyone who has ever played a gainst them, and a group of magical casuals who have never played against a premade. Yes, people who have never played against a strong premade have not their winrate affected by them.

+ the dip in winrate is not the main issue. Playing against premade is horibble.

The goal shouldn't be to fix the system, instead remove premades. Square gave up on pvp a decade a go. They haven't fixed matchmaking this far and won't. There are easy improvements that we could have even in this maintenance mode. Remove premades, randomize teams(rw), remove samurai lb and remove battle high. Tweak an ini file, change some ones in to zeros. Instead they added premades in to CC, facepalm.

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Your "Masters degree" must be in creative accounting, because your math is a fantasy. The system's 50% win rate average comes from thousands of matches, not just the ones you lose to premades. A player who loses to a premade once can win their next three solo games. Their win rate isn't permanently crushed unless they quit, which is your real goal.

Your solution remove the feature that keeps queues populated is like trying to fix a car by removing the engine. You'd rather kill the mode entirely than have a single challenging match. That's not logic, it's a tantrum.

I honestly don't like the idea of premades in a casual setting... Because in the end, it will just add another big variable to the win rate if you're going solo: which group has the most (1 or 2) premades. Unless they change the matchmaking to only put premades against other groups with premades too, which is unlikely as it would inflate the queue times.

If they really wanted a "Training Wheel" for people to get used to PVP, they could just add a no-reward Duty Support feature to it with AI controlled NPCs, and there you could go solo or with your premade coach.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

If they really wanted a "Training Wheel" for people to get used to PVP, they could just add a no-reward Duty Support feature to it with AI controlled NPCs, and there you could go solo or with your premade coach.

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I think AI would always give bad habits. I disagree with that.

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Originally Posted by Elephantality

I think AI would always give bad habits. I disagree with that.

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I think it depends to be honest, it's a good way to get started atleast.

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Originally Posted by RedAkihabara

I think it depends to be honest, it's a good way to get started atleast.

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It also depends on how the AI is programmed. But I agree that even a non-optimal AI behavior is better than nothing for a start when it comes to people with absolute zero PVP experience.

The boon here is teaching the players more like the dynamics of PVP (e.g. proper Guard timing) rather than micro-analyzing behaviors.

Pre-made in casuals is fine. It should have been there since day 1.

Stop being weird about it. Make some friends, que up. You can easily spark a random conversation and get yourself some casual partners.

What a silly thing to complain about when there is so much worse things to point out.

Christ, people can't do math. Lets assume global avarage winrate is 50%. It's not, baceuse if you dc out of a winning game, you lose. Lets ignore that.

Lets look at frontlines. We divide people in to two groups. Me and everyone else. My winrate is slightly above 50. That means everyone elses avarage must be <50%.
That is a mathematical fact. If we axcept that avarage is 50%.

Strong premades have high winrate, everyone else have compined <50% winrate.

Groups A, B and C make no sense. Only if you group matches, not people. ANYONE who has played more than 10 matches in frontlines or rw has played against premades, so they are part group B partly. In rw there are matches monstly only during mog event, and then there are mayby 1 or 2 days a week, when there are no premares stomping. In frontlines i can't tell how offen there are premades, but would guess atleast 20%. Premades haven't been a problem in cc in the past.

As i said, group C is a magical group of casuals who have never played against premades, and their avarage winrate would be 50%. But in ff14 there are two types of pvp players, group A and group B+C.

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Originally Posted by Bureda

Pre-made in casuals is fine. It should have been there since day 1.

Stop being weird about it. Make some friends, que up. You can easily spark a random conversation and get yourself some casual partners.

What a silly thing to complain about when there is so much worse things to point out.

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Nobody should be forced to find a premade just to compensate the fact that they can be randomly put against other premades. This is not being weird, is just a matter of fair play. And people queue solo in games for a number of reasons.

I don't mind premades but what I mind is having to play against same people over and over again because this game mode is dead. That is what sucks.