The new player experience and how FFXIV fails as an MMO.

Today i was talking to my sister again, and asked her when she might continue to play the game.

So i give you some of her responses why she and her friend doesn't continue playing for now , they are somewhere in the middle of Shadowbringers before they quit some months ago.
And i do agree wholy with her.

Even though she likes the story overall and the characters, and she knows the game has a lot of cool things to offer from what i showed her, here is the main issue:

The story is too long and not multiplayer friendly.

We are now several years and multiple expansions in the lifespan of FFXIV, but the MSQ gets longer and longer and longer ever since. It simply takes way too long now to get through it all, we are now at 300+ hours to the end of Dawntrail, if not more. A casual player will take months to get through it before reaching the current content of the game, also unlocking all trials and dungeons takes a really long time.

There is also the other problem that the MSQ is a mostly single player experience, she tries to play with her boyfrined but beside dungeons and trials there is pretty much no multiplayer content or reason to run around in groups. You can't do any of the story sequences ina group because they are all solo instances.
they sit literally next to each other at home, but have barely any interaction in the game together.

Then there is the problem of unlocking dungeons, trials or raids. You can't simply do anything together in this game if one player hasnt unlocked a thing.

Another critique is that the MSQ has almost no combat interactions, when she took a longer break and got back into the game, she forgets what she is even doing with her class because unless you do a dungeon there is no combat during MSQ, you maybe kill one or two easy mobs for a quest but thats it, and then it is just running around and talking again.

> MSQ needs more combat elements to keep the player awake in between dungeons and trials.

I do not suggest buying a story skip to get there, because then you know nothing about what is going on, but something must be done to reduce the lenght of the MSQ, it must be cut and trimmed down by 30-50% at this point. A lot of not plot relevant quests must be removed or turned into side quests to keep the story.

fazit: The game fails new players as an MMO, but also kinda fails as a good single player experience because of its excessive lenght and boring gameplay elements during the MSQ part.

I think the new player experience is actually pretty good. I would say it's one of the stronger parts of the game. It does take a long time for someone to get caught up but there's plenty of content that they can play along the way and a huge back catalogue of stuff to do.

The cracks start to show once someone has been at max level for a few expansions and realises that every expansion has the same cookie-cutter formula cut, pasted, and drip-fed at a snail's pace. And with more of the rough edges sanded away each time, so it just feels like you're playing through increasingly simplified versions of the exact same thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arohk

Even though she likes the story overall and the characters, and she knows the game has a lot of cool things to offer from what i showed her, here is the main issue:

The story is too long

---

This is only true if you regard the purpose of an MMO is to reach endgame. As I've suggested elsewhere, "endgame" in an MMO is an artificial construct taken from single-player games, particularly when applied exclusively to PvE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigCheez

The cracks start to show once someone has been at max level for a few expansions and realises that every expansion has the same cookie-cutter formula cut, pasted, and drip-fed at a snail's pace. And with more of the rough edges sanded away each time, so it just feels like you're playing through increasingly simplified versions of the exact same thing.

---

Exactly this.

I would prefer if the MSQ was multiplayer in the way SWTOR is. For whatever reason, SE actually pondered this from the start and decided against it. I can't understand why they would but it's hard to really go back without fundamentally changing the story to say some other players are also scions and have the echo.

I also hate having to read quest dialogue to myself instead of it being voiced, but it's hard to see them going back and voicing it all at this point, especially with voice actors having changed sometimes.

The lack of action is a common complaint and the best solution I can think of for that is just having some cutscenes happen where you follow an NPC and they talk (voiced) while they are running, so you get to fight or move around during the dialogue. That's something games have done for a very long time, but mostly we're still stuck trapped watching it play out. There is some value in proper cutscenes some of the time, because following an NPC can make you miss an important event because you weren't paying attention or ran away to do something else. The other thing would be that we wouldn't get to see the cutscene at an inn anymore, most likely.

It's always made a lot of players quit, but at least it accurately shows them what it will be like later on, because quests work the same at level 100 as well and you still have to do them a lot to unlock new content.

I have thought that the MSQ is very long but if you think about it enough, this is more of an issue for people who feel pressured to rush to endgame, perhaps due to pressure from a max level friend. If all you're looking for is a final fantasy story, you've got a banquet of story waiting for you and that's not a bad thing if you like story. In any case, Yoshi-P was asked about this around Dawntrail release and said he decided it's fine because new players consistently say how they loved the story, and they wouldn't say that if he added a mechanic to skip it, so at least for now that is the mindset.

Only people I've managed to get to stay or seen stay are roleplayers at this phase. Either serious ones or ones that hang out in nightclubs and other social events, because the game has very very good systems if not the best in the MMO-sphere for roleplay. There is no meaningful gameplay loop in the end if you aren't going to go fully into savages, most multiplayer content is playermade and even then the game tries its very best with its outdated systems to hamper your attempts. No chat bubbles, because...? Can't put down a marker for the whole alliance raid becauuuuuse....? These small details are very important for roleplay.

- Questing together? Doesn't exist, because most quests are cutscenes and fights that you could solo with your butt just randomly pressing on your keyboard. There's no organic "Can someone help with this? Team up for this?" The open world being so tame to traverse is by FAR the biggest MMO crime this game does. Flying mounts were a mistake too, aetherytes existing EVERYWHERE was a mistake. But then again designing a tunnel MMO with loading screens was a choice they made. Farming mobs together for cool drops? Doesn't exist.

- Fallguys wouldve been fun multiplayer, but its seasonal and the engine cant handle it. More of those types of events please

- Exploring together? Doesn't exist, the mobs barely tickle and there's nothing to find on the map.

- Dungeons might as well be solo, because they surmount to nothing. Help your friend gear? Buy them the crafted set.

- Chasing 10 year old achievements together might be fun for a moment, but an MMO relying on old content to float it when they have absolutely nothing new to do for big cycles is sad.

- Skipping the story doesn't help either, like the OP mentioned you miss out on EVERYTHING, you are confused when new content comes along. Not that anything below an extreme needs you to know anything.

- The story definitely needs a big cutscene for some previous expansions on what happened, but let's say there's a big cutscene for ARR - Endwalker and you land at Dawntrail? OOOOOOOF. Big damnable OOOF. I don't think that's possible until the game has a revamp, the worldbuilding/story changes. Endwalker would've been a perfect spot to nuke the world and change the atmosphere a bit, but I don't think they have the talent nor the resources to do that unless we get another 1.0 situation where it gets so bad they just press the exterminatus button and go for a Realm Reborn REBORN. It was sure a decision to visit the end of the universe, space, the moon and other shards before we even touched on Ilsabard, the north, meracydia or some other regions like Hingashi proper. I still have no idea what they are speeding towards other than the demise of their worldbuilding being destroyed even further by them pressing fastforward, but here we are.

Awaiting for 8.0 that is now the "real real, for real guys the new beginning" unlike DT that they said would be.

I don't think the new player experience is quite so bad, let alone uniquely bad among AAA MMOs, but it definitely has room for improvement. Just to name a handful of obvious points...

• UI could and should be more intuitive.
  
  
• The world could and should be more alive.
  
  
• Dead systems like the Hunt Log should be revitalized.
  
  
• FATEs could use better scaling systems so that you aren't punished at one end of a zone for the previous FATE, 10 levels apart, getting cleared quickly elsewhere (see also: Occult Cresent).
  
  
• Ilvl caps should be tightened, quite possibly to simply what the given content drops, so that dungeons can be nearer their intended difficulties.
  
  
• Trusts should probably script themselves as to, if anything, be smarter/better than the average dungeon-runner, while increasing enemy HP accordingly to remain slightly less efficient, as to be a learning tool instead of picking up more bad habits than good ones.
  
  
• The early level kit needs to make up for what has been pruned from it, or better, (e.g., giving us the kind of compelling kits sometimes not found until level 68 or so now... as early as level 48 instead), and the devs shouldn't be afraid to return the more granular upgrades we used to have in order to make the leveling kits feel like intended play (e.g., Disembowel starting at 12s, so that even before level 50 it still actually feels rotational instead of merely a wonky addendum) instead of treating them as just an accident that happened on the way to the real [end]game.
  
  
• Any further cumulative effects of power creep on early content should be mitigated through slight tuning re-tweaks.

I remember being new and really thrown by the fact that the opening of the game isn't voiced. IMO, this is a big mistake. The MSQ, at the very least, needs to be fully voiced.

Another thing that annoyed the heck out of me was constantly having to leave party for solo instances. Either make them mini-FATEs with level sync or make them instances you can join with friends, also with level and item sync so they don't get instantly deleted. Actually, just let us level sync to a friend when in a party with them in the overworld, period. RIFT did it with its Mentor system and it was pretty nice to get new players into the game if you were a vet, since it enabled you to do beginner content with them very easily.

Thirdly, doing anything solo as a healer is absolutely miserable. I started out as an Arcanist and went Scholar because I mained healers in every other MMO. I knew healers didn't deal that much damage. But in XIV they hit like wet noodles. Killing anything takes forever. If DPS can get regen with Brilliant Conviction, please at least give healers a damage buff for those duties.

Just my opinion but I love the long campaign. Makes it feel like an epic journey from humble beginnings. If someone thinks that it’s too long or want their friend to co-op with them so they don’t get bored, maybe they don’t appreciate the story as much as they should.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Uncle_Jafar

Just my opinion but I love the long campaign. Makes it feel like an epic journey from humble beginnings. If someone thinks that it’s too long or want their friend to co-op with them so they don’t get bored, maybe they don’t appreciate the story as much as they should.

---

The MSQ feels like playing any other FinalFantasy game , but with random encounters turned off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mawlzy

This is only true if you regard the purpose of an MMO is to reach endgame. As I've suggested elsewhere, "endgame" in an MMO is an artificial construct taken from single-player games, particularly when applied exclusively to PvE.

---

Endgame isn't artificial. You can think of it as the point where you've stopped progressing and it makes more sense to focus on honing your gameplay with your complete skill list instead of having to incorporate new skills all the time. The consistency of endgame makes it more likely that challenging and deeper content exists because it doesn't need to account for a huge range of participants that might have different levels or quality of gear. Different people will have different ideas of what makes a game or genre and in my view I prefer the endgame state more than the progression state. I enjoy getting better at a game more than I enjoy getting better stats, especially when better stats are an illusion that only makes for bigger numbers on screen at the end of the day. I also don't want a static game, that's one of my biggest complaints with FF14, but the variety is best applied to the environment that your character is in, rather than coming from your character, at least in my opinion.

Quote:

---

Exactly this.

---

Speaking from my own experience, the MSQ was a sore point from the beginning. I agree with many of the issues brought up in the first post. I didn't like being forced to play solo without friends. I didn't like having to go through many hours of story to catch up with friends. I did like dungeons but I'd have to make time for the MSQ because the entire game depends on it. I don't think FF14's approach to the story is very good. A more open world where you can do things without very specific prerequisites or only in a very tightly intended order would be much more fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Uncle_Jafar

Just my opinion but I love the long campaign. Makes it feel like an epic journey from humble beginnings. If someone thinks that it’s too long or want their friend to co-op with them so they don’t get bored, maybe they don’t appreciate the story as much as they should.

---

I feel the same way about length. I'd much rather have a long campaign than a short one. The problem is that FF14's long campaign blocks off 95% of the game. It doesn't have to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Endgame isn't artificial. You can think of it as the point where you've stopped progressing and it makes more sense to focus on honing your gameplay with your complete skill list instead of having to incorporate new skills all the time. The consistency of endgame makes it more likely that challenging and deeper content exists because it doesn't need to account for a huge range of participants that might have different levels or quality of gear.

---

I mostly play(ed) PvP. That would suggest my endgame is level 30. The "challenging content" of level 100 PvE is of no interest to me.

No. Disagree.

MSQ length isn't a problem.

Expansions are supposed to expand a game.
If you're endgame oriented that's one thing but I know of other MMOs where everything in the past becomes irrelevant. I don't want that for FF14.

People think of these like dream scenarios where you're perfectly in sync with playing with others in MMOs.

People have mismatched schedules

Someone is always ahead or behind

And eventually, everyone ends up soloing stuff anyway the quests are designed to be solo'd

Are you thinking of like - Everquest or FF11 where singular mobs could beat the shit out of you so you were forced to group up? It's not that I think that's bad it's just not really the design of modern MMOs.
Even if you duo level in something like Classic WoW you're mostly doing solo tasks but next to someone else and that gets pretty dull quickly.

Most MMOs are the multiplayer content is the Dungeon, is the boss fight, that's what you do.

So if not for anything, that's more of an indictment on modern MMO design which older MMO's have their own flaw of it then relying too much on playing with other people in order to get things done in the open world.
There's not really a happy medium where you're both able to be self sufficient and also play with players in meaningful interactable ways... that's why devs spend so much time making catered content for battle content for people to do together the rest of it is all social hangout sort of affair.

Having experienced several prior MMOs, the lack of meaningful gameplay in XIV's MSQ outside of solo duties and instances was always a sour point to me.

There isn't anything to actually distract from the railroad aside from aether currents either so exploration generally feels rather unrewarding.

I have an IRL friend group that I tried to pull into FFXIV at some point - we corroborate our point of views quite often to this day. The most prominent issue they thought are always the combat gameplay itself. They love the stories. In fact one of them think the length is a contributing factor to how satisfying some part of the stories felt. They want to give the story time to cook up something awesome. In the meantime, they need something else to occupy their mind. In ideal setting, gameplay would then come in to make the leveling, grinding, learning the job, and eventually doing the 'endgame contents' fun. But as I've mentioned elsewhere before, they're mostly dumped at lv90-lv100 while leaving the rest of the game hollow. The earlier parts are as important as the later parts. If you can't hook people up earlier, how are you going to ensure they will experience these supposed 'awesome stuffs' you put at the end of the road?

Quoting my friend's sentiment from post-EW period: "I feel it's insulting to players' intelligence to leave such barebone kits for over half of leveling progression."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadda

No. Disagree.

MSQ length isn't a problem.

Expansions are supposed to expand a game.
If you're endgame oriented that's one thing but I know of other MMOs where everything in the past becomes irrelevant. I don't want that for FF14.

People think of these like dream scenarios where you're perfectly in sync with playing with others in MMOs.

People have mismatched schedules

Someone is always ahead or behind

And eventually, everyone ends up soloing stuff anyway the quests are designed to be solo'd

Are you thinking of like - Everquest or FF11 where singular mobs could beat the shit out of you so you were forced to group up? It's not that I think that's bad it's just not really the design of modern MMOs.
Even if you duo level in something like Classic WoW you're mostly doing solo tasks but next to someone else and that gets pretty dull quickly.

Most MMOs are the multiplayer content is the Dungeon, is the boss fight, that's what you do.

So if not for anything, that's more of an indictment on modern MMO design which older MMO's have their own flaw of it then relying too much on playing with other people in order to get things done in the open world.
There's not really a happy medium where you're both able to be self sufficient and also play with players in meaningful interactable ways... that's why devs spend so much time making catered content for battle content for people to do together the rest of it is all social hangout sort of affair.

---

Thinking the MSQ length is fine is delusional. MANY people quit (and I know several personally) because they want to get to a lot of the content that comes later in the game but its gated behind 400 hours of msq. Play the game full time for 10 weeks (and increasing) before you can get to the content you want to try doesn't fly with many people.

Is the story good? It's ok. The storytelling is awful but the story is quite good and many people enjoy it.
Should we force everyone to do the entire story before being able to play current content? Absolutely not.

I don't think they should necessarily shorten the MSQ, but a more WoW approach where you can work on the newest expansion early would make a lot of people happy and willing to play the game.

I'll admit, I'm confused.

I mean, what exactly drew some people to the game? It blatantly advertises itself as a story-driven experience - hell, this is what anyone curious about the game sees if/when they visit the FFXIV promotional website:
https://i.imgur.com/0GpvQ3k.png

"Live your story". And that story is supposed to be a marathon, not a 100m sprint to endgame!

I know people who started this game last year and they're not even into Shadowbringers. One of the strongest parts of this game is that it's kept most of it's old content relevant, so I don't know if I can agree with this take, the game kind of fails you once you're caught up with everything.

EDIT: My top five

Once you're caught up with the MSQ, the leveling experience is pretty terrible.
Gearing your characters for end-game content doesn't feel very good.
The game won't teach you how to play properly, making getting into extreme and savages feel hostile.
If you were looking to get into end-game hard content be prepared to ask yourself why you're starting on M9S and not on M1S, their hardcore content goes to the bucket too fast.
You end up wondering why is there nothing 'new' to do for months at a time.

There are tons of things new players can do because they're also kind of hidden from view. None of my friends who are currently progressing through the MSQ know what Eureka or Bozja even is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arohk

Today i was talking to my sister again, and asked her when she might continue to play the game.

fazit: The game fails new players as an MMO, but also kinda fails as a good single player experience because of its excessive lenght and boring gameplay elements during the MSQ part.

---

While the story itself has some merits, the way MSQ is structured is absolutely stupidly boring and mind-numbing. I do agree that you should be able to play with your friends a greater portion of the MSQ, but it also makes sense why those instances are solo, since it's your story.

I remember when I started playing this game, I was so sick and tired of running around and talking to X NPC, at the edge of the map to come back to Y at the other side of the map, to then talk to Z at the completely opposite side to return then where you started. So damn boring and so annoying, made to waste as much time as possible for almost 0 value.

Every single expansion was the same :
1. Chores for NPCs you didn't care about 70%
2. More chores, but the plot was picking up a bit, 20%
3. Things got serious, and the actual plot was relevant 10%

15-20% actual story and 80-85% filler BS. Also, everything was so damn predictable. Probably the only plot twists I saw were the Crystal Braves and the lolorrito thing in ARR, the rest was boring, predictable, and linear stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kohashi

While the story itself has some merits, the way MSQ is structured is absolutely stupidly boring and mind-numbing. I do agree that you should be able to play with your friends a greater portion of the MSQ, but it also makes sense why those instances are solo, since it's your story.

I remember when I started playing this game, I was so sick and tired of running around and talking to X NPC, at the edge of the map to come back to Y at the other side of the map, to then talk to Z at the completely opposite side to return then where you started. So damn boring and so annoying, made to waste as much time as possible for almost 0 value.

Every single expansion was the same :
1. Chores for NPCs you didn't care about 70%
2. More chores, but the plot was picking up a bit, 20%
3. Things got serious, and the actual plot was relevant 10%

15-20% actual story and 80-85% filler BS. Also, everything was so damn predictable. Probably the only plot twists I saw were the Crystal Braves and the lolorrito thing in ARR, the rest was boring, predictable, and linear stuff.

---

As someone that has got into the game initially for its world building and who now enjoys the story quite a bit (with all its faults), I do agree with this. The story is insanely verbose and beats around the bush for half the time either through chores or just endless talks with the scions to finally get the point in the last stretch of each section.
Comparing it to any of the games of the same franchise in its classic era, you'll quickly see what's the difference in terms of pacing, and actual substantive and colourful dialogue. The writing in XIV is very good grammatically, but is also extremely dry, speaks like an old book, and cannot actually focus on substance except during story climaxes or the rare good scene exposing strong themes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

I'll admit, I'm confused.

I mean, what exactly drew some people to the game? It blatantly advertises itself as a story-driven experience - hell, this is what anyone curious about the game sees if/when they visit the FFXIV promotional website:
https://i.imgur.com/0GpvQ3k.png

"Live your story". And that story is supposed to be a marathon, not a 100m sprint to endgame!

---

Its not what drove me or many other ShB players to the game. For me, it was looking for an MMO experience and for many others it was looking for a WoW replacement. The game found success in ShB in part to the story but also in part looking for brighter shores.

You have to realize, the story may bring people into the game, but its very unlikely to keep people subscribed. Once you catch up, its a few hours of content every few months and sometimes its a major miss. What they expect you to do in-between the MSQ matters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

As someone that has got into the game initially for its world building and who now enjoys the story quite a bit (with all its faults), I do agree with this. The story is insanely verbose and beats around the bush for half the time either through chores or just endless talks with the scions to finally get the point in the last stretch of each section.
Comparing it to any of the games of the same franchise in its classic era, you'll quickly see what's the difference in terms of pacing, and actual substantive and colourful dialogue. The writing in XIV is very good grammatically, but is also extremely dry, speaks like an old book, and cannot actually focus on substance except during story climaxes or the rare good scene exposing strong themes.

---

It's deliberate to a degree, which is why the English dub's casting for HW through ShB focused on English actors with theater backgrounds, but there are always chunks(usually near the beginning and between the X3 trial and X5 dungeon) where you can tell that it's just padded to fill out a dead spot that the formula says must exist, very little happens, and very little is learned. There are sometimes good character moments or bits of foreshadowing and tension in that period, but they've gotten more rare.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

I'll admit, I'm confused.

I mean, what exactly drew some people to the game? It blatantly advertises itself as a story-driven experience - hell, this is what anyone curious about the game sees if/when they visit the FFXIV promotional website

---

That is only one part of the page underneath "Adventure awaits you under the horizon" and above "Adventure is what you make of it", both of which seem to imply more free form gameplay.

Even taken in isolation I wouldn't say that the Live Your Story section implies a story focus above all else, nor does it imply that the story gates all other content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kohashi

While the story itself has some merits, the way MSQ is structured is absolutely stupidly boring and mind-numbing. I do agree that you should be able to play with your friends a greater portion of the MSQ, but it also makes sense why those instances are solo, since it's your story.

---

Even in your solo story and instances, you interact with many other people. The story is also very tightly controlled so I don't see a good reason why other players couldn't be a part of it while being kept out of the spotlight. This is essentially what happens in dungeons.

I do want to say here that I think the approach to the game is wrong. Just cause you reach the end of the game doesn't man the game suddenly opens up this big multiplayer aspect to it.

No, FF14 is built on the idea that if you want those experiences you have to specifically deviate away from MSQ and unlock the blue quests.
So unlocking things like the Deep Dungeons should already open a bit more of a multiplayer aspect to the game, or later on in Stormblood unlocking field operations and go do those, they're still somewhat active.

I think it's a big mistake to just focus on MSQ.

The story is very long, and it can be tedious at times, but for the most part it is a great story... At least until you reach DT... And the MSQ is very much designed as a single player experience, the only time you're expected to interact with other players is Dungeons and Trials, and all the Dungeons and some trials can now be done with the Duty Support but using it is slower and more tedious than doing them with actual players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

The game won't teach you how to play properly, making getting into extreme and savages feel hostile.

---

I've read this sentiment for many years. I am puzzled, however, when it is applied to MMORPG genre games.

Which MMORPG genre games actually "teach you how to play properly"? It wasn't ESO. It wasn't WoW. It wasn't Rift. It wasn't Wildstar. It wasn't Everquest. It wasn't Runescape, or Albion, or ...

Please, someone, provide the names of MMORPG genre games that teach "how to raid" with any level of detail.

Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DPZ2

I've read this sentiment for many years. I am puzzled, however, when it is applied to MMORPG genre games.

Which MMORPG genre games actually "teach you how to play properly"? It wasn't ESO. It wasn't WoW. It wasn't Rift. It wasn't Wildstar. It wasn't Everquest. It wasn't Runescape, or Albion, or ...

Please, someone, provide the names of MMORPG genre games that teach "how to raid" with any level of detail.

Thanks.

---

TERA and Blade and Soul provided instances where you could practice not only your rotation but also practice specific mechanics of a particular boss.

Blade and Soul: Hongmoon Training room where you had training for your class (beginner, intermediate, advanced) + all Heroic + raid fights
TERA: Training Grounds

However, both Tera and BnS were extremely fast-paced and unforgiving in terms of mistakes, especially BnS, which, to make matters even worse, did not have the Holy Trinity either. If you failed to position yourself and failed to iframe.. GG no RE.

While the story offers issue to some as it requires doing msq to reach your friends and it can be tedious. The bigger problem is the endgame of each expansion and realization that every one of them follow the same strict formula and the player soon finds themselves exhausted and quite bored so in most cases they just quit and never return. We aren't even mentioning that older expansions have problems finding people for last trials and those that require 3rd lb to finish so unsync help won't help unless its full party.

Some are gatekeeped for hours until they find one group that will most likely disband after 1-2 wipes.

I haven't been able to recommend this game in good faith to friends since the Stormblood era. These days, it's simply too much story to expect the average casual player to go through to be able to play the content their friends are playing. And aside from that, although the narrative quality itself is generally quite strong, the presentation is horribly stilted and dated; much of the writing uses gratingly flowery language; the amount of filler is nearly unbearable at times; and because skill acquisition is SO heavily back-loaded, the first couple hundred hours of combat are uninteresting to anyone who's played a faster-paced, tab-target MMO before. The open world is lifeless, reducing the new player experience almost entirely to just walking around alone, watching cutscenes, and clicking through dialog boxes.

They should've made the [edit: non-current] MSQ optional three expansions ago. Meanwhile, in GW2, if you want, you can often get the first two expansions and a max-level boost for $12 total during a sale. Both I and my guildmates have had several friends hop in and come raiding with us on day one, have a blast, and end up getting really into the game. I'm sure people get their friends hooked on FFXIV all the time, to be fair, but it really has to be the right kind of person, at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirutsuki

I do want to say here that I think the approach to the game is wrong. Just cause you reach the end of the game doesn't man the game suddenly opens up this big multiplayer aspect to it.

No, FF14 is built on the idea that if you want those experiences you have to specifically deviate away from MSQ and unlock the blue quests.
So unlocking things like the Deep Dungeons should already open a bit more of a multiplayer aspect to the game, or later on in Stormblood unlocking field operations and go do those, they're still somewhat active.

I think it's a big mistake to just focus on MSQ.

---

I think this in part is the biggest problem of the free trial. The fact you can't join FC's easily, which provide a big part of the multiplayer experience. This makes it hard as new trial players kinda get forced into rushing the MSQ if they want to save actual money, giving a skewed perception of the game

the endgame doesnt have suddenly more multiplayer aspects. sure there are more random people around who want to do the new stuff rather than the old. but the multiplayer content is there.

dungeons, normal raids and extremes are everywhere
multiplayer maps since HW
there is eureka and bozja
potd and hoh


what i've seen often enough is how new people feel they have to reach endgame to do stuff. sure there is a certain hype when it comes to the bew stuff but the old content is still there.

rather than the game the fault lies more often with the so called 'friends' who are like 'play this game and come quickly to the endgame so we can play together its gonna be awesome' but at the same time they are like 'old stuff? nah i already got everything there' (which basically means they like rewards more than playing together)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Even taken in isolation I wouldn't say that the Live Your Story section implies a story focus above all else, nor does it imply that the story gates all other content.

---

If I wanted to be uncharitable I could also call the "Live your story" tagline misleading.
You're not playing "your" story, you're playing the Warrior of Light's story. A pre-defined character whose personality, reactions and decisions you have no control or even influence over.

Now obviously I didn't go into the game expecting that, but the tagline might give someone the wrong idea, when "Live your story" really only pertains to everything you do outside of the actual game story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DPZ2

I've read this sentiment for many years. I am puzzled, however, when it is applied to MMORPG genre games.

Which MMORPG genre games actually "teach you how to play properly"? It wasn't ESO. It wasn't WoW. It wasn't Rift. It wasn't Wildstar. It wasn't Everquest. It wasn't Runescape, or Albion, or ...

Please, someone, provide the names of MMORPG genre games that teach "how to raid" with any level of detail.

Thanks.

---

I played WoW and GW2. The difficulty curve between dungeons > Heroic dungeons > raids wasn't as steep as FFXIV. In FFXIV I didn't know I was doing sub-par damage, it was not until a raider friend put me through a DPS meter (which is again against ToS) that I realized I wasn't playing right. I had no idea about Sky, Stone and Sea either, this is when I was brand new mind you.

The divide between when I played the game normally to when I was raiding felt like I was playing a whole different game. Rotations? Buff alignment? Potions? OGCD management? Healer DPS? (and back then there was Cleric stance).

If you go to Sky, Stone and Sea without knowing your rotation you will not kill the dummy. But nothing exactly tells you what you are doing wrong, and there are no in-game tools you can use to improve your gameplay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

I played WoW and GW2. The difficulty curve between dungeons > Heroic dungeons > raids wasn't as steep as FFXIV. In FFXIV I didn't know I was doing sub-par damage, it was not until a raider friend put me through a DPS meter (which is again against ToS) that I realized I wasn't playing right. I had no idea about Sky, Stone and Sea either, this is when I was brand new mind you.

The divide between when I played the game normally to when I was raiding felt like I was playing a whole different game. Rotations? Buff alignment? Potions? OGCD management? Healer DPS? (and back then there was Cleric stance).

If you go to Sky, Stone and Sea without knowing your rotation you will not kill the dummy. But nothing exactly tells you what you are doing wrong, and there are no in-game tools you can use to improve your gameplay.

---

This is a very perceptive comment. I'd even suggest that when those who play the game normally stumble into discussions about buff alignment and oGCD management, they don't recognize the game being described as the one they are playing.

Part of the interplayer friction we see is that those who have discovered this aspect of the game feel those that continue to play the game normally should learn these concepts and habits.

But why? What is so terrible about playing the game normally? It sounds very... normal. At the very least, what this suggests is that there are two legitimate ways of playing the game. The normal one and the raid-centric one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mawlzy

This is a very perceptive comment. I'd even suggest that when those who play the game normally stumble into discussions about buff alignment and oGCD management, they don't recognize the game being described as the one they are playing.

Part of the interplayer friction we see is that those who have discovered this aspect of the game feel those that continue to play the game normally should learn these concepts and habits.

But why? What is so terrible about playing the game normally? It sounds very... normal. At the very least, what this suggests is that there are two legitimate ways of playing the game. The normal one and the raid-centric one.

---

The issue is the implications of playing your job incorrectly being normal.

We can't have normal mode content that requires players to actively participate because the majority of the playerbase don't actually have any idea how the game works. And the majority of the playerbase have no idea how the game works because the game doesn't do anything to teach them, or even incentivise figuring it out or using external resources to learn for themselves.

No damage to heal. No mitigation required. No DPS checks. No dispellable debuffs. No interrupts. No stuns. No CC. The game never requires you to do anything except not stand in the orange. The devs have done everything they can to ensure that failure is near impossible.

The game is stuck in a vicious cycle of not being able to have engaging content because the playerbase isn't good enough at the game, and players knowing nothing about the game because the content doesn't require them to learn anything about the game. It makes it very boring for people who do know how to play the game and see all the wasted potential.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arohk

A casual player will take months to get through it before reaching the current content of the game, also unlocking all trials and dungeons takes a really long time.

---

Is this supposed to be a bad thing? Catching up through the backlog of MSQ and content is the best part of this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigCheez

The issue is the implications of playing your job incorrectly being normal.

We can't have normal mode content that requires players to actively participate because the majority of the playerbase don't actually have any idea how the game works. And the majority of the playerbase have no idea how the game works because the game doesn't do anything to teach them, or even incentivise figuring it out or using external resources to learn for themselves.

No damage to heal. No mitigation required. No DPS checks. No dispellable debuffs. No interrupts. No stuns. No CC. The game never requires you to do anything except not stand in the orange. The devs have done everything they can to ensure that failure is near impossible.

The game is stuck in a vicious cycle of not being able to have engaging content because the playerbase isn't good enough at the game, and players knowing nothing about the game because the content doesn't require them to learn anything about the game. It makes it very boring for people who do know how to play the game and see all the wasted potential.

---

I see that as two irreconcilable but legitimate playstyles, hence why I advocate a dual-track approach. Learning and implementing a rigid rotation is, for many, extremely boring.

It's the case in any MMO I can think of that those who want to push their limits and engage in high-end PvE will naturally gravitate towards external sources. Like even in CCGs it's rare for the game to tell you how to optimize your deck, so everyone goes to Icy Veins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Underscore

Is this supposed to be a bad thing? Catching up through the backlog of MSQ and content is the best part of this game.

---

Correct, as others have noted, the game fails to deliver once you catch up, largely due to the lack of content and variety.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I see that as two irreconcilable but legitimate playstyles, hence why I advocate a dual-track approach. Learning and implementing a rigid rotation is, for many, extremely boring.

It's the case in any MMO I can think of that those who want to push their limits and engage in high-end PvE will naturally gravitate towards external sources. Like even in CCGs it's rare for the game to tell you how to optimize your deck, so everyone goes to Icy Veins.

---

Yeah, I agree but I don't think that's a good approach to game design. The game has two distinctly separate groups of players. Group 1, who are so incompetent that they don't even know what they don't know, and group 2, who know how the game works and feel like they don't get to play the game when they engage with content that's designed for group 1.

IMO the game should ask more of players and do more to teach them how to do what it's asking of them. It would create a more fun and engaging experience for everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I see that as two irreconcilable but legitimate playstyles, hence why I advocate a dual-track approach. Learning and implementing a rigid rotation is, for many, extremely boring.

It's the case in any MMO I can think of that those who want to push their limits and engage in high-end PvE will naturally gravitate towards external sources. Like even in CCGs it's rare for the game to tell you how to optimize your deck, so everyone goes to Icy Veins.

---

I wish this game had playstyles. What I do mean is that how you play the game in normal mode should somewhat translate in how you play in Extremes+, but it doesn't and there are no in-game tools for you to get there, so from a newbie perspective it feels extremely hostile to get into that type of content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigCheez

Yeah, I agree but I don't think that's a good approach to game design. The game has two distinctly separate groups of players. Group 1, who are so incompetent that they don't even know what they don't know, and group 2, who know how the game works and feel like they don't get to play the game when they engage with content that's designed for group 1.

IMO the game should ask more of players and do more to teach them how to do what it's asking of them. It would create a more fun and engaging experience for everyone.

---

I think "incompetent" misses the point. In NA/EU I suspect Group 1 is the majority, and I'd suggest their ignorance of one facet of the game (PvE) is a legitimate choice.

Maybe I'm just projecting, but I think a large chunk of Group 1 does know that they can do more damage in a dungeon if they studied one of Wesk's or Caetsu's guides and memorized the optimal rotations. But why on earth would they? PvE does not interest everyone, particularly when it approaches rotation optimization. This is particularly true in FFXIV because the PvE is just plain bad.

I'd agree with you that this is a choice on SE's part. What the game "teaches" you in MSQ dungeons is that if you run out of the bad fast enough and hit the flashy buttons occasionally, everything will work out. Why do you suppose SE has made that choice? It's because they recognize that those interested in optimization are a minority. If this were not the case and the intent, would we not have in-game damage meters? The game is like this because the only optimization SE cares about is sub-count.

As to creating a "more fun and engaging experience," manifestly no. People are leaving because DT has raised MSQ dungeon difficulty to a point that a part of Group 1 doesn't want to deal with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volgia

I wish this game had playstyles. What I do mean is that how you play the game in normal mode should somewhat translate in how you play in Extremes+, but it doesn't and there are no in-game tools for you to get there, so from a newbie perspective it feels extremely hostile to get into that type of content.

---

An oft-repeated myth IMO. Sure there is hostility from raiders as is so evident on these boards, but the content itself doesn't put up a wall of hostility. The barrier is one of tedium. Or more generously, it's just a choice.