Secure Sucks. Team Deathmatch please?

Yet another PvP* game mode where you run around like a chicken with its head cut off before frantically running to middle only to frantically run away.

*PvP optional.


In all seriousness, there really should be a Team Deathmatch mode- or failing that- a simple land grab mode. I'm not sure what compels SE to consistently create PvP modes with PvE gimmicks but its getting old.

Take Seal Rock (Seize) but make the nodes permanent. Maybe switch around which one is an S rank or a B rank or allow some nodes to provide a passive buff (like the Oasis in CC) or something to that effect. I'd love to see environmental hazards incorporated into the game mode as well.

Just something- anything- instead of the current Frontline formula. I'm begging you SE.

Borderland Ruins landgrab mode where specific nodes give you an LB boost, damage boost, regen, or damage should would drastically improve the flow. Maybe even randomize which effects are active if any.

Funnily enough, we used to have a Deathmatch FL mode that recycled the Secure map, it was called Slaughter and was removed in Stormblood. I never actually played it, but I don't recall it being popular.

Really feels very odd in an alleged PvP mode being confronted with stack markers and towers to soak.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

Funnily enough, we used to have a Deathmatch FL mode that recycled the Secure map, it was called Slaughter and was removed in Stormblood. I never actually played it, but I don't recall it being popular.

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Probably the same reason why it wouldn't be very popular now.

Players can't "afk" if there isn't any PvE nodes to pretend like they're participating in the match.

Also harder to report them for lethargic gameplay after they go 0 kills 8 deaths 0 assists and 50k damage against players when they have !<300k damage against "others".

I'm extremely frustrated by the current situation.

The 7.2 changes for the jobs, hit detection, role actions etc., I think are nearly all positive. Frontline feels fun to play.

Except I only play half the time because Shatter and Borderlands are absolutely miserable.

Whoever came up with the idea "PvP would be way more fun with PvE in it" - you're completely wrong.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I'm extremely frustrated by the current situation.

The 7.2 changes for the jobs, hit detection, role actions etc., I think are nearly all positive. Frontline feels fun to play.
Except I only play half the time because Shatter and Borderlands are absolutely miserable.
Whoever came up with the idea "PvP would be way more fun with PvE in it" - you're completely wrong.

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Each has their own opinion.
I personally enjoy Secure because I don't need to deal with dumb people and actually have higher first place percentage in Secure (about 38.4% solo joined)
Secure and Shatter is about resource control and spawn timer control.
Horde stampede simply don't work and that is such a breath of fresh air.
Don't follow the crowd, be a lonewolf in Secure just to kill and steal outpost.
You should try it sometime

They can't have a mode where all you do is deathmatch, there needs to be a node or a crystal or something to distract you from how bad the actual PvP is.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Each has their own opinion.
I personally enjoy Secure because I don't need to deal with dumb people and actually have higher first place percentage in Secure (about 38.4% solo joined)
Secure and Shatter is about resource control and spawn timer control.
Horde stampede simply don't work and that is such a breath of fresh air.
Don't follow the crowd, be a lonewolf in Secure just to kill and steal outpost.
You should try it sometime

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Since 1v1 kills are essentially impossible, this reduces to grabbing unsecured outposts. That isn't PvP. It's riding around on a mount.

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Originally Posted by NarhiFaunlha

Yet another PvP* game mode where you run around like a chicken with its head cut off before frantically running to middle only to frantically run away.

*PvP optional.


In all seriousness, there really should be a Team Deathmatch mode- or failing that- a simple land grab mode. I'm not sure what compels SE to consistently create PvP modes with PvE gimmicks but its getting old.

Take Seal Rock (Seize) but make the nodes permanent. Maybe switch around which one is an S rank or a B rank or allow some nodes to provide a passive buff (like the Oasis in CC) or something to that effect. I'd love to see environmental hazards incorporated into the game mode as well.

Just something- anything- instead of the current Frontline formula. I'm begging you SE.

Borderland Ruins landgrab mode where specific nodes give you an LB boost, damage boost, regen, or damage should would drastically improve the flow. Maybe even randomize which effects are active if any.

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Of Course it sucks.. the supposed "rework" was just a facelift and added !PvE! mechanics..... And that bit took them, what was it, 2 Years? Absolute Madness.

If they ever add more PvP modes I hope they remain small scale like CC is. FL and RW are clown fiesta with their custom damage modifiers and battle high etc.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

the supposed "rework" was just a facelift and added !PvE! mechanics..... And that bit took them, what was it, 2 Years? Absolute Madness.

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and they didn't even added PvE, it was already the case. they just gave a timer (made mid spawn faster btw), 6 teleport an called it a day...

that game mode could and should be a king of the hill kinda mode

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Since 1v1 kills are essentially impossible, this reduces to grabbing unsecured outposts. That isn't PvP. It's riding around on a mount.

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It is possible right now.
For Melee, you will need Smite (this applies to all Frontline modes)
Also, when you are sieging an outpost in Secure, you gained damage buff
This buff makes it also possible for range to kill someone solo
My average kills in Secure by just solo outpost is around 8+
This number is decent enough consider it is done usually solo against 2 enemies
It is clearly SE encourage action at outpost instead of just hitting PvE drone
A lot people also don’t know that you losing more scores when lost main outpost

It's more like why would you even play PvP in this game instead of going on Steam to find a real competitive game? Gear doesn't matter, job doesn't matter, everyones the same, you have like 5 buttons that you just hammer on cd to do damage. There's no expression of individual style or skill.

Even WoW PvP in it's 2005 release state was like multiverse chess compared to this.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

It is possible right now.
For Melee, you will need Smite (this applies to all Frontline modes)
Also, when you are sieging an outpost in Secure, you gained damage buff
This buff makes it also possible for range to kill someone solo
My average kills in Secure by just solo outpost is around 8+
This number is decent enough consider it is done usually solo against 2 enemies
It is clearly SE encourage action at outpost instead of just hitting PvE drone
A lot people also don’t know that you losing more scores when lost main outpost

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In general it seems people aren't using the outpost buff intelligently. And as to the scoring, it would be nice if it was less opaque.

I would still think you need a light party minimum to effectively patrol/steal outposts though. Solo once you have flipped an outpost the buff will help you defend it, but you can't flip one solo if an opponent is standing on the outpost since it's they that have the buff. And if the other teams are semi-zerging this all becomes moot.

Besides, one reason to play team-based PvP is to work effectively with the team. And in my case I prefer to play green dps.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

In general it seems people aren't using the outpost buff intelligently. And as to the scoring, it would be nice if it was less opaque.

I would still think you need a light party minimum to effectively patrol/steal outposts though. Solo once you have flipped an outpost the buff will help you defend it, but you can't flip one solo if an opponent is standing on the outpost since it's they that have the buff. And if the other teams are semi-zerging this all becomes moot.

Besides, one reason to play team-based PvP is to work effectively with the team. And in my case I prefer to play green dps.

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The problem with NA players is they play every mode with Horde Srompede but this method don’t work in Shatter and Secure (new or old)
These 2 modes are about resource control
The number of people that actually PvP and number of people on time/outpost need to be at an equilibrium

You don’t need light party to took outpost I can ensure you
NA players are bound to horde stompde and they moved in group, super predictable
Not only new Secure offers outpost buff it also offers team boost so you won’t be BH thirsty like old Secure when lonewolf
Once you reach BH3 and know what you are doing, defend side need at least 3 defenders
You use yourself as bait/threat to exchange 3 enemy units sitting idle at main outpost
Also as stealer you have more options than defender
You can go steal other GC main outpost or go to top to farm BH then come back to steal again
Like I said it is all about the resource management
This team will lost 2 to 3 resource permanently while you are still contributing

Not only that, i am also seeing pro knockers start emerges
Secure is a mode encourages multiple types of PvP styles
SE did have mechanics in both mode to incentive PvP, but NA players are enslaved by Horde Sompede

It's never going to happen and even if it did it'd be plagued with issues on top of being dead on arrival but
I love GW2's WvW mode, it's a lot of fun and it'd be cool to see the devs experiment with something like it

When they mentioned adding secure back I knew it would be have the same issues it had before
Dark Knights leaping to their death or monks camping
At least now you can knockback resist

Having varied modes in general would be fun, I'd like them to expand the daily to cover all sorts of PvP rather than just frontline
Though frontline gives a lot of experience so it'd probably need to be split up into the different modes
So a daily PvP tab for frontline, rival wings, etc

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Originally Posted by CVXIV

It's never going to happen and even if it did it'd be plagued with issues on top of being dead on arrival but
I love GW2's WvW mode, it's a lot of fun and it'd be cool to see the devs experiment with something like it

When they mentioned adding secure back I knew it would be have the same issues it had before
Dark Knights leaping to their death or monks camping
At least now you can knockback resist

Having varied modes in general would be fun, I'd like them to expand the daily to cover all sorts of PvP rather than just frontline
Though frontline gives a lot of experience so it'd probably need to be split up into the different modes
So a daily PvP tab for frontline, rival wings, etc

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Dark Knight leaping don't work anymore.
When you just teleport to top planform you have 5s invariability and teleport is the only place Dark Knight can leap.
So what are you talking about?
I am curious

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

The problem with NA players is they play every mode with Horde Srompede but this method don’t work in Shatter and Secure (new or old)
These 2 modes are about resource control
The number of people that actually PvP and number of people on time/outpost need to be at an equilibrium

You don’t need light party to took outpost I can ensure you
NA players are bound to horde stompde and they moved in group, super predictable
Not only new Secure offers outpost buff it also offers team boost so you won’t be BH thirsty like old Secure when lonewolf
Once you reach BH3 and know what you are doing, defend side need at least 3 defenders
You use yourself as bait/threat to exchange 3 enemy units sitting idle at main outpost
Also as stealer you have more options than defender
You can go steal other GC main outpost or go to top to farm BH then come back to steal again
Like I said it is all about the resource management
This team will lost 2 to 3 resource permanently while you are still contributing

Not only that, i am also seeing pro knockers start emerges
Secure is a mode encourages multiple types of PvP styles
SE did have mechanics in both mode to incentive PvP, but NA players are enslaved by Horde Sompede

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Maybe it would work better if more players were trying to win rather than farm XP and rewards.

In practice, Secure is a dull 18-minute fiasco that I do not wish to play.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Maybe it would work better if more players were trying to win rather than farm XP and rewards.

In practice, Secure is a dull 18-minute fiasco that I do not wish to play.

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Like I said each person has their own favorite, but it is certainly absurd to call a mode sucks just because this person dislike (talking about OP)
I enjoyed that 18 mins of thrill of killed the defender, took the OP, and survived gank of 3 to 4 people.
Good thing Frontline is a rotation of modes isnt it?
I dislike Seize; so you less likely to see me in that mode

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Originally Posted by NarhiFaunlha

In all seriousness, there really should be a Team Deathmatch mode- or failing that- a simple land grab mode. I'm not sure what compels SE to consistently create PvP modes with PvE gimmicks but its getting old.

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We had a pure team deathmatch mode. It was called the Feast.
The mode was announced to be locked for the Crystalline Conflict debut. Instead, it was deleted without warning.

The Feast wasn't a pure team deathmatch, since it involved medals as an objective, not just kills.
If you're after a pure deathmatch, this was The Fold.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

It's more like why would you even play PvP in this game instead of going on Steam to find a real competitive game? Gear doesn't matter, job doesn't matter, everyones the same, you have like 5 buttons that you just hammer on cd to do damage. There's no expression of individual style or skill.

Even WoW PvP in it's 2005 release state was like multiverse chess compared to this.

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Play CC ranked and see how far you go by "just hammering buttons on cd to do damage".
I love the idea of gear until you realize that everybody will be the same meta gear anyway, except for the casual and newbies that get insta demolished by geared up veterans (which is what happened in ARR/HW pvp).

Necroing,

But I just don't like the changes. Specifically it makes old playstyles of monk feel worse. Even when trying to recreate it with paladin and full swing, it feels like such a pain to knock people off the ledges. Even the ramp is mostly railed when getting to higher inclines except for one spot. 30 yalm knock back doesn't feel like 30 yalms. It feels like 15. Can't entirely gank people as they come out of the teleporter as they are immune for a few seconds so have ample time to find safety. There is even a wooden platform at the top that lets people safely hop down to the ramp.

Similarly this is why current shatter feels worse. Everything is so flat and whatever heights there are just happen to be designed with making falls nonlethal.

The only real times I managed to kill someone after all these changes, through knockback off a ledge, is low health dark knights who are in their LB state on the center platform at onsal.

Also despite the appearance of some locations in seal rock, there is no lethal falls.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Necroing,

But I just don't like the changes. Specifically it makes old playstyles of monk feel worse. Even when trying to recreate it with paladin and full swing, it feels like such a pain to knock people off the ledges. Even the ramp is mostly railed when getting to higher inclines except for one spot. 30 yalm knock back doesn't feel like 30 yalms. It feels like 15. Can't entirely gank people as they come out of the teleporter as they are immune for a few seconds so have ample time to find safety. There is even a wooden platform at the top that lets people safely hop down to the ramp.

Similarly this is why current shatter feels worse. Everything is so flat and whatever heights there are just happen to be designed with making falls nonlethal.

The only real times I managed to kill someone after all these changes, through knockback off a ledge, is low health dark knights who are in their LB state on the center platform at onsal.

Also despite the appearance of some locations in seal rock, there is no lethal falls.

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They made it that way because of how many jobs have knockbacks. Frontlines were never balanced and sadly tanks dominate this area of field way too much. Specially if its premades, in which case you can already say "gg wp go next".