Sub-Dividing Patches & Patch Schedule

You go to a sandwich shop and pay for a sandwich. You walk to the end of the line and you're given a piece of sliced bread. You wait 5 minutes. You get a slice of cheese. You wait 5 minutes. You get some meat. You're told that the sauces are coming with the veggies. You get some of the veggies. Then you wait some more. Weren't you promised both? Why wasn't the sandwich made and given to you at once? By the time your sandwich is finished the bread is soggy, the meat is cold, and the cheese is lukewarm.

That's the issue with FFXIV's patch cycle. You're told in the Live Letters leading up to the Expansion's release of all the content you're getting. The X.0 patch arrives and its just MSQ. Then the Raids. Then the Alliance Raids. Then later you're promised more content like Cosmic Exploration or Field Operations- but that's going to be subdivided into mini patches- even though you were promised everything.

The worst part is that we aren't even told how the patches will be organized. If you purchase Dawntrail, you're supposed to be able to play the Beastmaster class. We don't know when or how long until that class will arrive.

Is it too much to ask that we're given an estimate on when these patches will drop? Is it too much to ask to request that when a patch drops, the entire patch is dropped at once? Why bother calling it 7.21 and 7.22? Just call it 7.2 and 7.3.

I just want Field Content. I want to do something more than a weekly grind. I want my money's worth.

I want my gosh dang sandwich.

If people don't understand that the expansion announcements include what is coming in their patches, then that's really on the person for not understanding it. The expansion release itself has the amount of content as a "whole new game" (in their words) which is why it costs as much as a new game.

It includes the MSQ, which is the sort of length of a single player story game (and costs as much). It includes lots of endgame content such as hunts, a new treasure map, expert dungeons, 2 extremes, 4 normal/savage raids and a new pvp series (this is all on release or within the first mini patches), 2 new playstyles, and grinds for players that want to set goals such as extreme mounts, gemstone rewards, hunt mounts and a leveling all jobs mount.

If you don't like the above you aren't obligated to actually buy it. And if you only want the patch content such as Field Operations - good news, you can resubscribe when that patch drops, or refrain from purchasing the expansion until it drops, and view that as the "real release date".

As far as the patch cycle goes, it's true they aren't usually too clear about the long term plan for this. But realistically, people that have played for 10 years know the release schedule very well - and some of those veteran players have made youtube videos and websites explaining how the schedule work.

You can also just read the patch note history going back to ARR to get a very good sense of when to expect each piece of content:
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...patchnote_log/

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It includes the MSQ, which is the sort of length of a single player story game (and costs as much). It includes lots of endgame content such as hunts, a new treasure map, expert dungeons, 2 extremes, 4 normal/savage raids and a new pvp series (this is all on release or within the first mini patches), 2 new playstyles, and grinds for players that want to set goals such as extreme mounts, gemstone rewards, hunt mounts and a leveling all jobs mount. https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...patchnote_log/

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If its 5 months between patches, and you're paying $15 a month, that's $75. That's almost double the price of the expansion itself. Are you getting 1.5 times the content during that period? Probably not. That's the issue I have. Expansions are being sold as a: "This is what's included!" Except it isn't included; its promised. Its coming. Its a lack of transparency of when its coming. This is especially important as- over the years- the size of each patch has been reduced. Less patch dungeons. Less MSQ. Less optional/extra content in the game and yet a longer period between the patches themselves.

Sorry, did you just describe every Sub sandwich shop I have ever been to in the first few sentences as if that is somehow not a successful business model?

A pre-made game is a solo game and you can buy those just about everywhere. MMOs don't come pre-made after the first year.

As for cost/benefit feel free to keep complaining but it wont change anything.

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Originally Posted by NarhiFaunlha

If its 5 months between patches, and you're paying $15 a month, that's $75. That's almost double the price of the expansion itself. Are you getting 1.5 times the content during that period? Probably not.

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If it's 5 months between interesting Netflix program releases, and you're paying $15 a month, that's $75. Are you getting 5 times the programs during that period? Probably not.

Many people unsubscribe from Netflix when there are no programs release that they want to see (myself included).

On the other hand, many people stay subscribed to watch "old stuff" - just like they do in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

If it's 5 months between interesting Netflix program releases, and you're paying $15 a month, that's $75. Are you getting 5 times the programs during that period? Probably not.

Many people unsubscribe from Netflix when there are no programs release that they want to see (myself included).

On the other hand, many people stay subscribed to watch "old stuff" - just like they do in FFXIV.

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Except Netflix does not ask you to pay 40$ every 2.5 years to upgrade your Netflix application to keep experiencing newly released series. If you lapse your Netflix subscription, you also won't risk losing digital achievements you have gotten. Its also, obviously, an entirely different medium. (And that is not to say that Netflix is not having its own issues with disappearing media, cancelling series, etc pp)

Really, both business models cant be compared, and your comparison is wobbly at best. The only thing they truly share is a monthly access fee.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

If it's 5 months between interesting Netflix program releases, and you're paying $15 a month, that's $75. Are you getting 5 times the programs during that period? Probably not.

Many people unsubscribe from Netflix when there are no programs release that they want to see (myself included).

On the other hand, many people stay subscribed to watch "old stuff" - just like they do in FFXIV.

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I absolutely love how you conveniently ignore auto demolition of houses.

"yeah just unsub !!! you dont like it just unsub !!!"

Some people have waited months or years to get a house, auto demo keeps them locked in, because if they dared come back in the future, they'd have to go through the lottery again for months or years, stop pretending that the game encourages people to unsubscribe and play other games.

And before you hit me with "well that's people's fault if they care that much about a house even if they dont play the game"

No it isnt, housing scarcity is SE's fault, and they know what they're doing. People dont want to come back to the game after months and see their house used by someone else and their plot gone, only to go through months or years of lottery again.

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Originally Posted by NarhiFaunlha

You go to a sandwich shop and pay for a sandwich. You walk to the end of the line and you're given a piece of sliced bread. You wait 5 minutes. You get a slice of cheese. You wait 5 minutes. You get some meat. You're told that the sauces are coming with the veggies. You get some of the veggies. Then you wait some more. Weren't you promised both? Why wasn't the sandwich made and given to you at once? By the time your sandwich is finished the bread is soggy, the meat is cold, and the cheese is lukewarm.

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actually just subway

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The expansion release itself has the amount of content as a "whole new game" (in their words)

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AHAHAHAHAHAA

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Originally Posted by Clockworks

I absolutely love how you conveniently ignore auto demolition of houses.

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It's not that I ignore it. I literally don't have a house, so it doesn't even cross my mind. Lots of people do not have a house. Your problem is kinda limited to people who do like I assume you do.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Except Netflix does not ask you to pay 40$ every 2.5 years to upgrade your Netflix application to keep experiencing newly released series.

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While true, that fee is primarily for the "new game" / MSQ aspect which is why I compared it to buying a new game instead.

But the business models and their problems are mostly similar other than that. You subscribe for the content you want on the month it releases, binge watch / consume it, then unsubscribe. That's pretty much the business model they're both using.

Is the business model good? That's up for debate. Many people will similarly say "Netflix has lackluster content, you're just subscribing for the 1 good show" - a familiar argument made about FFXIV.

Both have a lot of other content/shows too, but it's stuff the people complaining don't care for, therefore they don't count it.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It's not that I ignore it. I literally don't have a house, so it doesn't even cross my mind. Lots of people do not have a house. Your problem is kinda limited to people who do like I assume you do.

While true, that fee is primarily for the "new game" / MSQ aspect which is why I compared it to buying a new game instead.

But the business models and their problems are mostly similar other than that. You subscribe for the content you want on the month it releases, binge watch / consume it, then unsubscribe. That's pretty much the business model they're both using.

Is the business model good? That's up for debate. Many people will similarly say "Netflix has lackluster content, you're just subscribing for the 1 good show" - a familiar argument made about FFXIV.

Both have a lot of other content/shows too, but it's stuff the people complaining don't care for, therefore they don't count it.

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“Limited to people who do”

You know there are 780,000 plots in the game right? If we say ~~~80% are occupied by a unique player who doesn’t want to lose them that’s half the games current playerbase based on the lucky brancho population crash who doesn’t want to lose them. That isn’t an insignificant number just because it doesn’t apply to you

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

But the business models and their problems are mostly similar other than that. You subscribe for the content you want on the month it releases, binge watch / consume it, then unsubscribe. That's pretty much the business model they're both using.

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Naah Fam can't agree with that, really. Their spiel of "you can unsubscribe" sounds more along the lines of "if you take a break, getting back to where things are is pretty easy", not a "we plan for you to cancel your subscription with only playing 1-2 months per year."
In a live service game, one with a subscription cost, any good business wants to keep your subscription rolling. Same with FFXIV. A constant huge shift in player numbers is poison for infrastructure planning and financial security.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

In a live service game, one with a subscription cost, any good business wants to keep your subscription rolling. Same with FFXIV. A constant huge shift in player numbers is poison for infrastructure planning and financial security.

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I'm sure you've seen a Yoshi-P quote encouraging people to take breaks and play other games. So there's no point in me finding one for you. Clearly he doesn't agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I'm sure you've seen a Yoshi-P quote encouraging people to take breaks and play other games. So there's no point in me finding one for you. Clearly he doesn't agree with you.

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Taking a break =!= cancelling your subscription, its not a difficult concept to grasp. You can take a break and still keep paying, you can take breaks for shorter than 4 weeks where cancelling your sub isn't even an option. It is said in such a way to seem benevolent.

The Live Letters preview everything that will be added in the given patch cycle. The next one will outline what is coming directly in 7.2, what will be in 7.25, etc.

This is their design for releasing content and has always been their design for releasing content. You seem to be fairly new by your join date. If you're comparing this game to other MMOs, don't. While it has some inspirations, it doesn't follow all the trends of other MMOs. Instead, do a little research on the game first and see what individual design it follows.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I'm sure you've seen a Yoshi-P quote encouraging people to take breaks and play other games. So there's no point in me finding one for you. Clearly he doesn't agree with you.

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Actions speak louder than words.

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Originally Posted by NarhiFaunlha

If its 5 months between patches, and you're paying $15 a month, that's $75. That's almost double the price of the expansion itself. Are you getting 1.5 times the content during that period? Probably not. That's the issue I have. Expansions are being sold as a: "This is what's included!" Except it isn't included; its promised. Its coming. Its a lack of transparency of when its coming. This is especially important as- over the years- the size of each patch has been reduced. Less patch dungeons. Less MSQ. Less optional/extra content in the game and yet a longer period between the patches themselves.

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If you find there's not enough in the game to retain your interest for 5 months between patches, you should unsubscribe during that period. Pay when you want to play, don't pay when you don't play.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

If you find there's not enough in the game to retain your interest for 5 months between patches, you should unsubscribe during that period. Pay when you want to play, don't pay when you don't play.

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You did not read this thread at all did you?
Just unsubbing because yoshi p says its ok to play another game in downtime doesn't make sense for anyone because people have houses and the lottery system for it sucks more than clicking the sign before it

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Originally Posted by LilaIronman

You did not read this thread at all did you?
Just unsubbing because yoshi p says its ok to play another game in downtime doesn't make sense for anyone because people have houses and the lottery system for it sucks more than clicking the sign before it

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Did you not read my post? I said if you are not playing the game, unsub. Not because Yoshi-P says so but because you are a thinking human being with free will. If you choose to pay your subscription fee exclusively to keep your digital house alive, that's a decision you have actively made. If you're unhappy with your own decision, that's on you.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

Did you not read my post? I said if you are not playing the game, unsub. Not because Yoshi-P says so but because you are a thinking human being with free will. If you choose to pay your subscription fee exclusively to keep your digital house alive, that's a decision you have actively made. If you're unhappy with your own decision, that's on you.

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Actually nope, SE made that decision with the artificial scarcity in order to force people to stay subbed for their houses (except if they want to spend their entire time bidding for at the very least a few months), but thankfully people like you will defend it. Go you !

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Originally Posted by Clockworks

Actually nope, SE made that decision with the artificial scarcity in order to force people to stay subbed for their houses (except if they want to spend their entire time bidding for at the very least a few months), but thankfully people like you will defend it. Go you !

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I will never get people that say "just unsub" lmaooo

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Originally Posted by LilaIronman

I will never get people that say "just unsub" lmaooo

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It’s simple

They don’t have a problem with the game and because don’t have a problem with the game they don’t want to see others discussing problems with the game because people have weird parasocial relationships with MMO’s and believe when they aren’t doing well it’s something to be personally sad or depressed about (I went through that song and dance with RuneScape 15 years ago)

Because of that it’s easier to just politely say f….. off but in a square enix supported way because yoshi p said to unsub

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Originally Posted by LilaIronman

I will never get people that say "just unsub" lmaooo

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It's a matter of self-respect. I don't spend my time and money on hobbies if I don't view them as worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

It's a matter of self-respect. I don't spend my time and money on hobbies if I don't view them as worthwhile.

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Your point literally makes no sense thanks to auto demolition of house, that means that you've worked months if not years to get a house, only to see it lost because you're taking a break until the next patch, only to have to do lottery again for the same amount of time. What would be a lack of self respect is to take a break for 3 months and to lose something you've worked for far longer for, and to have to do it all over again instead of simply staying subscribed.

Your point and position on this topic isnt the cool thing you think it is.

I appreciate the OP's metaphor, but I can't say that a sandwich shop can represent the release schedule of an MMO. We don't pay a subscription fee to get our stale bread, moldy cheese, rotten meat sandwich from a shop. I don't think it applies.

I've played a lot of the mainstream MMOs (not all). They all have patch cycles for releases. The nature of an MMO is that we are paying a subscription fee to access the service. The same way we pay a usage/subscription fee for internet, mobile, paywalls, VPNs, etc. I have never played an MMO that released the entire game, all in one patch, and then the developers "peaced out" while the company collected subscription fees for a decade.

I do agree that it feels like a long time between patch cycles. Personally, I sub/unsub (and set a reminder on my calendar for 42 days so I don't lose my house). When I do spend that $15, I tend to hit the game hard for weeks. And then leave it behind for 1.5 months.

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Originally Posted by NarhiFaunlha

You go to a sandwich shop and pay for a sandwich. You walk to the end of the line and you're given a piece of sliced bread. You wait 5 minutes. You get a slice of cheese. You wait 5 minutes. You get some meat. You're told that the sauces are coming with the veggies. You get some of the veggies. Then you wait some more. Weren't you promised both? Why wasn't the sandwich made and given to you at once? By the time your sandwich is finished the bread is soggy, the meat is cold, and the cheese is lukewarm.

That's the issue with FFXIV's patch cycle. You're told in the Live Letters leading up to the Expansion's release of all the content you're getting. The X.0 patch arrives and its just MSQ. Then the Raids. Then the Alliance Raids. Then later you're promised more content like Cosmic Exploration or Field Operations- but that's going to be subdivided into mini patches- even though you were promised everything.

The worst part is that we aren't even told how the patches will be organized. If you purchase Dawntrail, you're supposed to be able to play the Beastmaster class. We don't know when or how long until that class will arrive.

Is it too much to ask that we're given an estimate on when these patches will drop? Is it too much to ask to request that when a patch drops, the entire patch is dropped at once? Why bother calling it 7.21 and 7.22? Just call it 7.2 and 7.3.

I just want Field Content. I want to do something more than a weekly grind. I want my money's worth.

I want my gosh dang sandwich.

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I won't be surprised if putting all their meager content in a single month will cause their total subscriptions to drop by more than 50%. They will never do so because there is not enough content for people to keep a 4.5 month sub lmao

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Originally Posted by Ryvick

Sorry, did you just describe every Sub sandwich shop I have ever been to in the first few sentences as if that is somehow not a successful business model?

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When you buy a sandwich, you're not given a wrapped up piece of bread on its own and told to wait for the rest. You're given a complete sandwich.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I appreciate the OP's metaphor, but I can't say that a sandwich shop can represent the release schedule of an MMO.

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I'll admit: I might've been a little bit hungry when I came up with that metaphor.

My biggest complaint is that the content they release keeps you busy for a week or so. Sure, you have weekly dailies to do for a few months, but there really isn't anything there to incentivize you to keep playing. There needs to be. That's part of the reason why I feel like Field Content needs to be implemented sooner into the patch cycle. Currently we're told its coming even though we don't know precisely when at launch.

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Originally Posted by NarhiFaunlha

I'll admit: I might've been a little bit hungry when I came up with that metaphor.

My biggest complaint is that the content they release keeps you busy for a week or so. Sure, you have weekly dailies to do for a few months, but there really isn't anything there to incentivize you to keep playing. There needs to be. That's part of the reason why I feel like Field Content needs to be implemented sooner into the patch cycle. Currently we're told its coming even though we don't know precisely when at launch.

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Unless they deliberately divert extra attention to getting it out quickly, it probably won't be before May.