Upscaleing.

So you know when you do the levelling roulette, and you get Copperbell Mines for the 798th time, and you only have 3 buttons to press?

Wouldn't it be better when you sync down in level, you'd still have your full kit? So you'd still have your full level 100 rotaion while synced down, but you deal the amount of damage you're expected to deal at level 18 (or whatever level you're at in Copperbell).

Old dungeons are already boring as is, so why not give us the good stuff and let us press more stuff even though we're scaled down?

who does sub 91 dungeon ? :p

Might be a little jarring for the sprout who still has battle effects enabled to see 3 nukes continuously going off every 60 seconds or so, but it could be interesting as an optional setting.

It might even fix the early-game power creep problem with older trials and raids if they do the calculations right.

This has been discussed to death, and it boils down to how would you handle it, so by parts:

-If you just enable old skills in old content, then the content becomes even more pointless than it already is, nothing in Copperbell is built to withstand a buffed double Enshroud, even with level 17 stats, much less the absurdity of PCT's burst, you wouldn't even be able to finish your burst in those cases.

-If you rebalance things to account for the high potency skills, then your Sprouts will feel completely pointless in the dungeon, as their barely-existent 1-2 combo can barely scratch the enemies, this includes if we assume the system is scaling, as you could still get 3 level 100s with 1 sprout, with the high levels slaughtering everything while the Sprout can hardly dent it, your best hope is for the sprout to not notice something feels off.

-If you add a scaling Echo buff so Sprouts can deal comparable damage, and let's give benefit of doubt and say that it's calculated appropriately at every step of the way from minimum dungeon level to 100, then you put level 100 players in an awkward spot where they need to put in significantly more effort to keep up or being useless, you could say it wouldn't matter since they'd be doing their normal rotations anyway, but it would make minor rotation mistakes much more apparent.

All options cause issues and it becomes a "pick your poison" situation, but if you would allow me to give an anecdote from another MMO...

So The Elder Scrolls Online, I played it for a while, it has a system called One Tamriel, it is supposed to make the entire game operate at max level, so a level 1 character and a level 50 character can do the same content, with a scaling buff that enables the low level character to keep up, there is some limitations to it, but that's the gyst of it, I started playing ESO after the One Tamriel update... and I find it utterly miserable, it's sincerely one of the worst experiences I ever had leveling in a MMO, it creates a bizarre situation where you can feel yourself getting weaker as you level up, as the buff starts to wane, and a level 1 character will have notably more HP than a level 50 non-Tank character(roughly 22k vs roughly 16k), since a non-Tank won't be built for durability while the level 1 is buffed all-around. Mind, I am a weirdo in that regard, and I actively enjoy the leveling process in MMOs, I always take the scenic route and see it through, someone else might find it appealing, but it's just something I would never want for XIV, even in a limited capacity.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

This has been discussed to death, and it boils down to how would you handle it, so by parts:

-If you just enable old skills in old content, then the content becomes even more pointless than it already is, nothing in Copperbell is built to withstand a buffed double Enshroud, even with level 17 stats, much less the absurdity of PCT's burst, you wouldn't even be able to finish your burst in those cases.

-If you rebalance things to account for the high potency skills, then your Sprouts will feel completely pointless in the dungeon, as their barely-existent 1-2 combo can barely scratch the enemies, this includes if we assume the system is scaling, as you could still get 3 level 100s with 1 sprout, with the high levels slaughtering everything while the Sprout can hardly dent it, your best hope is for the sprout to not notice something feels off.

-If you add a scaling Echo buff so Sprouts can deal comparable damage, and let's give benefit of doubt and say that it's calculated appropriately at every step of the way from minimum dungeon level to 100, then you put level 100 players in an awkward spot where they need to put in significantly more effort to keep up or being useless, you could say it wouldn't matter since they'd be doing their normal rotations anyway, but it would make minor rotation mistakes much more apparent.

All options cause issues and it becomes a "pick your poison" situation, but if you would allow me to give an anecdote from another MMO...

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A system of traits that caps your potencies when you sync every 10 levels I think would be the way it has to be done in this game.

For example, at Lv70, PLD has the Holy Spirit combo through Requiescat at 600 potency each. If you want to use the whole Confiteor combo at that level, you'd need a trait to cap that combo at 600 potency. Atonement combo on the other hand could be capped at ~260, a rough average of your 1-2-3 combo.

That's the kind of trait finessing I think you'd need to use to make this work.

EDIT: Also, it's been discussed to death because the higher the level cap gets, the worse the level sync experience feels.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

A system of traits that caps your potencies when you sync every 10 levels I think would be the way it has to be done in this game.

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Perhaps, but when I suggested something akin to that, ie, "you should have a core of your job at level 50 at latest", with my specific suggestion being that you should have everything you have at level 70 or 80 currently at level 50 at most, with upgrades for those 20-30 levels being mostly potency and maybe animation upgrades with the trait system, and the response I got was "Well, they did that with SMN and look how it was received", which I feel really ignores why so many responded negatively to SMN, it's less being about it not upgrading a lot as you level, or even its simplicity, and more frustration with what was lost to get current SMN and how people who loved old SMN have to suck it up, but still saw the point very rapidly dismissed.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

Perhaps, but when I suggested something akin to that, ie, "you should have a core of your job at level 50 at latest", with my specific suggestion being that you should have everything you have at level 70 or 80 currently at level 50 at most, with upgrades for those 20-30 levels being mostly potency and maybe animation upgrades with the trait system, and the response I got was "Well, they did that with SMN and look how it was received", which I feel really ignores why so many responded negatively to SMN, it's less being about it not upgrading a lot as you level, or even its simplicity, and more frustration with what was lost to get current SMN and how people who loved old SMN have to suck it up, but still saw the point very rapidly dismissed.

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I'd love to see the discussion where that took place, because that sounds like an absolutely ridiculous response. Even if SMN did feel exactly the same every 10 levels (it doesn't) then that still isn't the experience of other jobs. BLM comes to mind as an absolute dogshit experience that changes constantly. Jobs that were added later, like VPR, PCT, GNB, etc. that weren't designed well for levels prior to what they start at also pretty unanimously feel awful to play synced.

Idk, I keep saying that if they're willing to dump resources into making the game look prettier (graphics update) then they can spend a little bit of time making their game feel better to play.

I don't get copperbell mines for the 698th time. I simply leave the duty. I ain't wasting my time on boring content, and I'm not shedding any tears for the poor sprouts.

I never run ARR Content.

Do that and players will use that as an excuse to jump from the dungeon. Probably a good way to keep players from doing that is to incentive players into completing the dungeon with new players by rewarding the more experienced players with extra tomes, like the Praetorium dungeons.

Honestly the solution is pretty similar to what they had to do to Black Mage. They need to redistribute when skills are handed out. It's a problem--I feel--with most big MMOs.The leveling curve feels fine at 1-50 but once you land multiple xpacs and you're missing several staple abilities it feels awkward.

Hello and thank you for submitting post number 32.465 of the topic "Pls upscale so I can use all my buttons in low level dungeons Yoshi P.". We will now directly forward your post to the responsible dev, please wait.
*ignores or deletes.*
We will surely take this into consideration!

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Originally Posted by TakoyakiLala

Do that and players will use that as an excuse to jump from the dungeon. Probably a good way to keep players from doing that is to incentive players into completing the dungeon with new players by rewarding the more experienced players with extra tomes, like the Praetorium dungeons.

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Why would they jump from the dungeon? The entire point is to make it more interesting to be there in the first place. Just boosting tomes and EXP is lazy as shit and barely an incentive.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

Why would they jump from the dungeon? The entire point is to make it more interesting to be there in the first place. Just boosting tomes and EXP is lazy as shit and barely an incentive.

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Because that's what they did for Praetorium. I'm just being realistic. xD

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Originally Posted by TakoyakiLala

Because that's what they did for Praetorium. I'm just being realistic. xD

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People don't leave Praet because of anything regarding balancing, they leave Praet because it's a 30 minute dungeon with maybe 10 minutes of gameplay, even if you actively enjoy how Jobs play at level 50, Praet can still be pretty miserable.

All of ARR's content is miserable and boring, throw in people who can't figure out what the 3 buttons they've been given do, and tanks pulling one mob pack at a time and you have a recipe for an experience that isn't worth my time. I'll take the 30min penalty any day over having to babysit people through Sastasha, or run Aurum vale/Dzemael darkhold/Cutters cry for the 800th time with badly geared tanks/healers.

For all I care they should shove every ARR dungeon into MSQ roulette as a form of added payment for the masochists willing to queue for it. I'd love to have a full kit of spells to rip through these dungeons at light speed but I seriously doubt SE will scale abilities for these throw away dungeons nobody cares about.

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Originally Posted by TakoyakiLala

Because that's what they did for Praetorium. I'm just being realistic. xD

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... they left because of the forced cutscenes. What are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

People don't leave Praet because of anything regarding balancing, they leave Praet because it's a 30 minute dungeon with maybe 10 minutes of gameplay, even if you actively enjoy how Jobs play at level 50, Praet can still be pretty miserable.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

... they left because of the forced cutscenes. What are you talking about?

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I feel like I'm missing something here, lol. I just suggested basically what I thought the devs would do. Which Atreus is right. It's barebones and lazy. But the devs have never tried being very innovative when it comes to reinvigorating some life and entertainment into old content like ARR dungeons.

What I meant by my previous post is that if people suddenly have their whole kit in older content, then it would not only make the older content even easier and trial than it already has been. But may even cause some players to become inpatient with new players who don't yet have even half of the kit on ther job compared to their more experienced/further ahead counterparts. Thus it may cause those vet players to leave immediately.

Meh, I could be wrong, but that's just what I was thinking with my dumb Lala brain, lol!

I'd prefer if older content were hard adjusted to match the level and gear of all participating players, if I had to make a different suggestion. That way older content wouldn't be as easily steam rolled and experienced players could have their full kits without them trivializing the older content further.

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Originally Posted by TakoyakiLala

I feel like I'm missing something here, lol. I just suggested basically what I thought the devs would do. Which Atreus is right. It's barebones and lazy. But the devs have never tried being very innovative when it comes to reinvigorating some life and entertainment into old content like ARR dungeons.

What I meant by my previous post is that if people suddenly have their whole kit in older content, then it would not only make the older content even easier and trial than it already has been. But may even cause some players to become inpatient with new players who don't yet have even half of the kit on ther job compared to their more experienced/further ahead counterparts. Thus it may cause those vet players to leave immediately.

Meh, I could be wrong, but that's just what I was thinking with my dumb Lala brain, lol!

I'd prefer if older content were hard adjusted to match the level and gear of all participating players, if I had to make a different suggestion. That way older content wouldn't be as easily steam rolled and experienced players could have their full kits without them trivializing the older content further.

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If they're lazy, then it'll feel unbalanced. I think if they're smart with restricting maximum potencies (see my earlier comment), then there's a world where synced players are not enormously more powerful. They could also easily reduce the difference between "average item level" and "item level cap" for each duty because, as it stands, that gap is huge. Just look at the Crystal Tower raids. You don't even see mechanics anymore because of how many item levels OVER the requirement you get to be.

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Originally Posted by Atreus

If they're lazy, then it'll feel unbalanced. I think if they're smart with restricting maximum potencies (see my earlier comment), then there's a world where synced players are not enormously more powerful. They could also easily reduce the difference between "average item level" and "item level cap" for each duty because, as it stands, that gap is huge. Just look at the Crystal Tower raids. You don't even see mechanics anymore because of how many item levels OVER the requirement you get to be.

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Ze Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atreus

A system of traits that caps your potencies when you sync every 10 levels I think would be the way it has to be done in this game.

For example, at Lv70, PLD has the Holy Spirit combo through Requiescat at 600 potency each. If you want to use the whole Confiteor combo at that level, you'd need a trait to cap that combo at 600 potency. Atonement combo on the other hand could be capped at ~260, a rough average of your 1-2-3 combo.

That's the kind of trait finessing I think you'd need to use to make this work.

EDIT: Also, it's been discussed to death because the higher the level cap gets, the worse the level sync experience feels.

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My dumb Lala brain didn't quite understand the example in your older post, but I get the jist of what you were saying through the beginning of it and pretty much everything you say in your latest one. I really like the idea, because I WANT to enjoy older content as close to as humanly possible as to how it was when it was first released. :(

This is pretty much, as far as I can tell exactly what the dev team should do to keep older content fresh, alive and enjoyable for all without having the need to limit higher level player's job kits. :3