Expert roulette.

With 7.2 we'll get a new dungeon, and as such they will split the level 100 dungeons in to two categories, Expert Roulette (New one + Yuweyawata) & Level 100 Dungeons (Alexandria, Strayborough & Tender Valley). But isn't it quite unnecessary to split them, wouldn't it be much easier to just have all of them available in the same roulette?

I'm frankly so tired of the older ones that... even if I see the point behind it being that we have some variety in the roulette, I just can't...

I just wish they would generally rework how expert functions, cause the "same dungeon for months to an end" is incredibly stale.

just use whatever algorithm is used for Unreal on every dungeon in the game, give us a pool of one dungeon per expansion, have them rotate weekly. Or something like that.
Or, to make it easier, just have every max level dungeon of the current expansion in the rotation for DR Expert.
But that would mean deviating from the plan that was created in ARR, even though parameters have changed.

I'm perfectly fine with whatever takes Strayborough out of the list.
Honestly. I hate that place with a passion.

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Originally Posted by Valence

I'm frankly so tired of the older ones that... even if I see the point behind it being that we have some variety in the roulette, I just can't...

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Once you've not done them for a while it gets better though. I used to feel that way about some expert dungeons, but once they were in the other roulette it was better just because of the greater variety in it as the patches progressed.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

just use whatever algorithm is used for Unreal on every dungeon in the game

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That's the problem. It will come as no surprise to you, given that it's SE, but they don't use an algorithm. They manually rescale it and put it through QA to make sure it works at the new level range.

They actually ran into an interesting problem with Leviathan Unreal. The reflect damage and auto thing did so much damage at max level that it actually just killed tanks because of however they designed it back then, so they had to adjust it. But I think in most cases just having an algorithm would be fine and that they should just do it.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That's the problem. It will come as no surprise to you, given that it's SE, but they don't use an algorithm. They manually rescale it and put it through QA to make sure it works at the new level range.

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Well I did not know that, but I am not exactly surprised. But I am baffled, for sure. Still, even if the calculations are done manually, surely the devs should have documents that outline expected PPM and DPS values for specific level brackets which are used as a base for recalculations. Or at least, I hope they do.

Good thing on them though for still retesting the new values even when they don't rely on algorithms.

Yeah, they should reduce the ilvl sync and put all of the level cap dungeons from the current expac in expert roulette.

Square plz bring back dungeon hard mode can we get like 4 dungeons for the roulette that would be nicer than 2 - 3 dungeons z z z z

We need a 6 dungeons expert roulettes for X.0 / X.2 / X.4

doesn't have to be new dungeons, take older ones and scale them to lv100, make them more random

experts should become the mythic+ of FF14

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

We need a 6 dungeons expert roulettes for X.0 / X.2 / X.4

doesn't have to be new dungeons, take older ones and scale them to lv100, make them more random

experts should become the mythic+ of FF14

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This would require a fundamental change in design in dungeons of XIV to be more than 2 packs boss x3

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Originally Posted by Oizen

This would require a fundamental change in design in dungeons of XIV to be more than 2 packs boss x3

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yeah it is included in the "make them more random"

Thank god, Strayborough and Tender Valley droping off the roulette could not come fast enough with how annoying those are on the current netcode. It's bad we only get 1 dungeon per patch but if they're that married to it, having them rotate out at least helps it get some of the more annoying ones out of there.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Once you've not done them for a while it gets better though. I used to feel that way about some expert dungeons, but once they were in the other roulette it was better just because of the greater variety in it as the patches progressed.

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Perhaps yes, but there is some specific ones that I haven't done for months like Luigi's mansion and just thinking about doing it again makes me want to puke.

Imagine liking one of the expert dungeons but not liking the other one. Now your "roulette" is just a 50% shot to do something you hate for 20 minutes. Cool!
This sort of thing is actually why I stopped doing roulettes, and eventually just stopped playing the game altogether. Expert's dungeons weren't particularly enjoyable to me. Leveling roulette lost all incentive once I got my favorite jobs to cap. Alliance was almost always crystal tower. Only trial and normal raid really felt enjoyable, but the deck was so heavily stacked in ARR/HW slop that eventually I stopped doing those as well unless I was really really bored or something. But it'd always be Alexander 1, or The Chrysalis and so I'd immediately regret doing it. Hell, last night was my first time back on the game in months. I was here on the free login period. I queued up trial roulette for old time's sake... got the chrysalis! every time, man.

I really think these types of dailies just burn people out and make them resent the game and the community after enough time. The reward for your time is paltry, especially late in the expac when the tome stuff isn't worth jack and the gearing is kinda done. The actual encounters you're likely to run into are level 50 slop. The people you'll meet are afraid to even speak half the time and generally aren't fun to play with. So why bother with it? Capping tomes? "Just do a hunt train." AKA spend 45 minutes silently following a parade of mounts from point A to point B. Is this it? Is this the critically acclaimed multiplayer experience everybody talked about? God help you if you don't find raiding enjoyable, or can't be satisfied by mindless collect-a-thons like fishing, because then this is literally it; this is the game. Log on, stand in your front yard, and queue trial roulette while hoping it's not Lahabrea or that skywhale. And maybe ERP when daddy logs in, but that's if you even have a daddy.

They really need to get back to two ex dungeons....

Think the main issue's in their longer patch cycle. We've been stuck with the same set for quite some time now

Rescaled older endgame dungeons sound fun though

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Originally Posted by Gwenkatsu

I'm perfectly fine with whatever takes Strayborough out of the list.
Honestly. I hate that place with a passion.

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Strayborough is my favorite DT dungeon so far, everything about that place is such a vibe, and the bosses actually get people even now, it feels great in there.

Imagine having more then one dungeon per patch content... Wouldn't that be something... Right now i somewhat enjoy the bosses of dungeons but they still need to make mobs and pulling more fun and less restrictive too.

Ultimately It doesn't really matter too much, having 2 possible dungeons on expert kind of... isn't great but it's mostly a issue with the lack of dungeons we get currently.

They need to bring back HM dungeons and have an easy MSQ roulette for the story-related dungeons and an Expert with the harder optional dungeons, all scaled to max level.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

Think the main issue's in their longer patch cycle. We've been stuck with the same set for quite some time now

Rescaled older endgame dungeons sound fun though

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This so much, back then when we had the... Anamesis Anyder? That dungeon where you had the whale for the first few minutes (worst. dungeon. design. EVER.) for ages due the Pandemic it was worst, for the first time i was leaving ex roulette as i could not bear any more runs there... i want the HW times back. Two dungeons is the bare minimum required.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

Strayborough is my favorite DT dungeon so far, everything about that place is such a vibe, and the bosses actually get people even now, it feels great in there.

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Different strokes for different folks. And that's great, not everything can please everyone.

Fun thing is, whenever roulette takes me there and I'm in the mood, I type something like "Not that place again", and always the other group members agree. I only once met someone who liked the dungeon... and then they died half a dozen times to the endboss' life/death mechanic. To a mechanic which even I got first try, and I'm really not good at decyphering FF14's non-telegraphed mechanics.

And this is basically the only fun thing that ever happened to me in that horrible place :D

The ironic part is that once Expert Dungeons split, the "Expert" dungeons will be the easy ones...Not a fan.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

This would require a fundamental change in design in dungeons of XIV to be more than 2 packs boss x3

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And? I wouldn't mind that. Give tanks and healers that can handle it something to feel.

It’d be nice if they’d at least keep all the lv100 dungeons in the roulette forever instead of becoming a coin flip past 7.2.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

Imagine liking one of the expert dungeons but not liking the other one. Now your "roulette" is just a 50% shot to do something you hate for 20 minutes. Cool!
This sort of thing is actually why I stopped doing roulettes, and eventually just stopped playing the game altogether. Expert's dungeons weren't particularly enjoyable to me. Leveling roulette lost all incentive once I got my favorite jobs to cap. Alliance was almost always crystal tower. Only trial and normal raid really felt enjoyable, but the deck was so heavily stacked in ARR/HW slop that eventually I stopped doing those as well unless I was really really bored or something. But it'd always be Alexander 1, or The Chrysalis and so I'd immediately regret doing it. Hell, last night was my first time back on the game in months. I was here on the free login period. I queued up trial roulette for old time's sake... got the chrysalis! every time, man.

I really think these types of dailies just burn people out and make them resent the game and the community after enough time. The reward for your time is paltry, especially late in the expac when the tome stuff isn't worth jack and the gearing is kinda done. The actual encounters you're likely to run into are level 50 slop. The people you'll meet are afraid to even speak half the time and generally aren't fun to play with. So why bother with it? Capping tomes? "Just do a hunt train." AKA spend 45 minutes silently following a parade of mounts from point A to point B. Is this it? Is this the critically acclaimed multiplayer experience everybody talked about? God help you if you don't find raiding enjoyable, or can't be satisfied by mindless collect-a-thons like fishing, because then this is literally it; this is the game. Log on, stand in your front yard, and queue trial roulette while hoping it's not Lahabrea or that skywhale. And maybe ERP when daddy logs in, but that's if you even have a daddy.

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I used to like doing expert roulette before ShB and diligently did it almost every day. Some dungeons were better than others, but the quality of the gameplay wasn't necessarily found in the dungeon encounters (they mostly haven't changed much), but in the older battle system, which today, has turned into a bad joke.
I used to be an avid expert enjoyer to chill and have fun, and today I barely run any at all, although now that I've stopped raiding I'll be forced to go back to it at least a little I guess... At least we don't have luigi's mansion anymore, but who knows what DDR horrors could follow?

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

This so much, back then when we had the... Anamesis Anyder? That dungeon where you had the whale for the first few minutes (worst. dungeon. design. EVER.) for ages due the Pandemic it was worst, for the first time i was leaving ex roulette as i could not bear any more runs there... i want the HW times back. Two dungeons is the bare minimum required.

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The whale section was annoying with forced singled pulls, but once you were past it, it actually had a lot of unusual and cool elements, notably the first boss with a double boss (and people actually eating shit to it), and the second and third trash pulls had no walls so you could pull crazy big.

I just straight queue for Alexandria anymore and hope I get that or the newer dungeon in the roulette. (That minion in Alexandria being a huge annoyance is the only reason)

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Originally Posted by Valence

The whale section was annoying with forced singled pulls, but once you were past it, it actually had a lot of unusual and cool elements, notably the first boss with a double boss (and people actually eating shit to it), and the second and third trash pulls had no walls so you could pull crazy big.

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It was like cutting my leg with an rusty saw, drenched in acid and salt.................
It hurt double, the whole whale part shouldve been a solo duty, with the dungeon being fully the ruin....