Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

Disregard this, I'm not playing the game anymore.

This is where their attempts at making the last expansion relic too easy is turning around to bite them. At the very least past relics would keep you busy, now they have been so miserable and easy that I actually have 9 of them on near the final stage on an alt character because they are just comedically accessible that you have enough Tomestones before even doing 80-90 or 90-100.

I am not too concerned in the grand scheme, because they follow this same downtrodden formula. It will be 'raid content enjoyers' that are asking where all their content is after they've done the final savage tier in 7.4 and have to wait 13 months for the next raid. Ultimately over the course of an expansion they have just as bad treatment as casuals, with the exception of all their content being frontloaded.

They need to see that their expansion lifecycle benefits nearly nobody, and that in the grand scheme of things, it's a miserable experience for everyone.

TL;DR a lot of this is an issue exacerbated by how accessible Manderville relics were, and the absence of a repeatable content in Endwalker.

This is already happening, but it's not so much a strike as a company locking the factory doors on the workers.

But yeah it burns to be subsidizing a sub-community that exhibits such contempt for our presence.

As a "hardcore" player (I guess? I enjoy and clear the harder stuff and I raid in a static at any rate), I really want some FUN casual and midcore content too. I have other friends who don't like the harder level stuff, whether because the don't have the time to dedicate to it or just find it too stressful, who I still want to play the game with. I want something more chill to play to unwind after raid where I still feel like I'm engaged and having fun but don't have to completely "lock in" to clear either. I want content I can bring an alt job into where it's no big deal if I mess up a few times, things like that. Variety is good for everyone. I don't feel like I'm eating all that well either.

God yes, the quality of Duty Finder would increase significantly if you guys did this.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Let's be real, unless you're a hardcore player, buying Dawntrail and being subbed this last half a year probably feels like a waste of money, and there's no guarantee that anything coming in 7.2 or beyond is even meant for casual players either and they won't pull another "whoops, we made it Savage difficulty instead, teehee!"

Besides, the hardcore playerbase has it made it abundantly clear, especially with Chaotic, that they hold such casuals in complete and utter disgust and don't want such players in "their" game anyway, so might as well just let them have it then, let them hold the game up on their own instead of expecting others to keep it running for them while being spat on by community and developer alike.

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I don't understand why hardcore raiders feel this way other than the hobby attracting the kind of person that's constantly looking for someone to turn their nose up to. You'd think after getting everything they wanted with Wildstar and how horribly that worked out for everyone involved, they'd appreciate having a vibrant player base that helps cover development costs a little more.

Given the numbers from Lucky Bancho, this is already happening without need for any additional input

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

God yes, the quality of Duty Finder would increase significantly if you guys did this.

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True, and the forums would be spared from the experience of you needing to write a thread being upset that you couldn't clear content as fast as you wanted to :)

Casuals departing from this game would unironically be a miserable experience for everyone seeing as you would likely eventually be put into a situation where a patch cycle turns from every 4.5 months, to every 5 months, and then every 8 months, and potentially longer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CuteBucket

As a "hardcore" player (I guess? I enjoy and clear the harder stuff and I raid in a static at any rate), I really want some FUN casual and midcore content too. I have other friends who don't like the harder level stuff, whether because the don't have the time to dedicate to it or just find it too stressful, who I still want to play the game with. I want something more chill to play to unwind after raid where I still feel like I'm engaged and having fun but don't have to completely "lock in" to clear either. I want content I can bring an alt job into where it's no big deal if I mess up a few times, things like that. Variety is good for everyone. I don't feel like I'm eating all that well either.

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Im in the same boat as you for the most part. I enjoy raiding and doing savage and ultimate but I don't want it all the time. I want more chill content to play and have fun with. That why SB and ShB was my favorite expacs bc they had a decent mix of hard content with relaxing content. On off days I would be in Bozja and Eurakeing farming for my relics. Doing EW and now DT, I all do when I log in is raid and I have no real reason to long in other than raid. It has made the game dull and boring. Sucks honestly....

The "filthy casual" mindset is a bleed over of toxicity from WoW refugees. Just blacklist them and move on.

I'm someone who enjoys extremes and occasionally dabbles into savages (I can clear if I want to)....I really want casual content. I'm sick of logging in, doing my weekly unreal...then like afk to watch youtube vids...

Maybe I should unlock mentor roul or something...but effort..

The battle between casuals and hardcore gamers will never end. But if casuals are game blood, then hardcore gamers are brains. They are a single whole, part of one eco-system.

It is quite natural that these two parts of the community always "dislike" each other a little, but nevertheless, it is not the fault of both groups that what is happening.

Only the publishing company and its approach to manufacturing products are to blame.

Now the problems in game, like a snowball, only accumulate into a larger lump, affecting an increasing number of players. Having nowhere to relieve stress, they begin to get angry at each other, more then usually. I think most of people right now need really take a long rest from this game, or trying something new.

Man, I love you guys.

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Originally Posted by Drimn

I don't understand why hardcore raiders feel this way

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They don't, OP is being melodramatic.

The rest of the expansion will have an entire exploratory zone presumably with more normal raids, an Ishgard restoration level crafting zone, relic weapons, Blue Mage content, Beastmaster content, and I'm sure plenty of other non-hardcore stuff. I can empathize with being frustrated that it's not all here right now, but trying to argue that casuals are some persecuted and forgotten class of people is absolutely ridiculous. Most of the content in the game caters to casuals and will continue to do so.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

They don't, OP is being melodramatic.

The rest of the expansion will have an entire exploratory zone presumably with more normal raids, an Ishgard restoration level crafting zone, relic weapons, Blue Mage content, Beastmaster content, and I'm sure plenty of other non-hardcore stuff. I can empathize with being frustrated that it's not all here right now, but trying to argue that casuals are some persecuted and forgotten class of people is absolutely ridiculous. Most of the content in the game caters to casuals and will continue to do so.

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You forgot the rest of the Savage raids, the Savage difficulty raid that'll come WITH that exploration zone, and presumably more extreme content. If you're going to say whats coming, don't filter out the stuff that doesn't support your point.

I don't own stock in Square Enix and it's also not the only videogame in existence so I will continue to live a happy life should the servers shut down. Thanks for the memories.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

You forgot the rest of the Savage raids, the Savage difficulty raid that'll come WITH that exploration zone, and presumably more extreme content. If you're going to say whats coming, don't filter out the stuff that doesn't support your point.

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LOL what? The fact that there will also be non-casual content has nothing to do with there being lots of casual content on the way. Both things can be true.

What you just said is like if someone claimed there are no hamburgers on the McDonald's menu, then someone else listed all the hamburgers, then you responded "uhmm acchhktually you left out the fries and milkshakes, don't filter out stuff that doesn't support your point."

Thank goodness, I'm tired of getting 20+ minute dungeon runs or having to rez the same person 20 times in a single fight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

What you just said is like if someone claimed there are no hamburgers on the McDonald's menu, then someone else listed all the hamburgers, then you responded "uhmm acchhktually you left out the fries and milkshakes, don't filter out stuff that doesn't support your point."

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Yeah, I dunno, man. I read all of their replies with my head in my hands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenrar28

The "filthy casual" mindset is a bleed over of toxicity from WoW refugees. Just blacklist them and move on.

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What no. It's been around since at least Coils turn 5. Its nothing new. Its more pronounced now just because there's nothing else to distract people.

The "filthy casual" thing has been around a lot longer than WoW.

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Originally Posted by Fenrar28

The "filthy casual" mindset is a bleed over of toxicity from WoW refugees. Just blacklist them and move on.

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We're still unironically using the phrase "WoW refugee" in the year of our lord 2025?

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

We're still unironically using the phrase "WoW refugee" in the year of our lord 2025?

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Especially funny given that anyone and everyone who plays both WoW and FFXIV is playing WoW these days because the game is in a much better state than FFXIV is.

Anyone who thinks that any of the current problems in FFXIV can be traced back to WoW players is out of touch. There are probably more FFXIV refugees playing WoW than the other way around.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

Especially funny given that anyone and everyone who plays both WoW and FFXIV is playing WoW these days because the game is in a much better state than FFXIV is.

Anyone who thinks that any of the current problems in FFXIV can be traced back to WoW players is out of touch. There are probably more FFXIV refugees playing WoW than the other way around.

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Count me among them. The War Within has, thus far, been a very enjoyable expansion. And, while I'm not anywhere near as down on Dawntrail as some people are, there just isn't a lot there to do right now.

I'm very much looking forward to the field operations patch. I hope I enjoy it as much as I enjoyed Eureka.

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Originally Posted by St0rmy

Thank goodness, I'm tired of getting 20+ minute dungeon runs or having to rez the same person 20 times in a single fight.

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You poor thing, that must be exhausting. Have some nice 30+ minute Q-times to relax.

Another one? Awesome.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

That doesn't justify the attitude and actions of said hardcore players.

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And did you expect some kind of community solidarity?

Well, it already exists. People didn't like Picto, they all criticized him en masse. People didn't like Dawntrail, they criticized it everywhere. They criticized the new hairstyle - curls. And hardcore players, and casuals, and midcore category of players.
Now hardcore players get a bit more content for them, but casual players making so big drama, so that feeling like thats most important aspect of this game.

But, truth in that, making content like CAR or ultimates \ savages most easist thing, that why that getting more regular updates.
That a bit "harder" to make new Bozja \ Eureka \ intersting relic progress then making few arenas with mechanics what we can see in every second-third dungeon.

In some ways I understand the gloating of hardcore players, but most of them write with irony and sarcasm, without malicious intent.
I totally agree that there is a lack of "casual content", although in my opinion game need more fun and engaging content rather than casual content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenrar28

The "filthy casual" mindset is a bleed over of toxicity from WoW refugees. Just blacklist them and move on.

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I do wish GMs would act on it more too. YoshiP is so against this but it feels like lately its the way this game is going

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

I do wish GMs would act on it more too. YoshiP is so against this but it feels like lately its the way this game is going

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He's enabling and encouraging it through choices about game direction.

Y "We wanted to match Extreme difficulty at first... but I would say the mechanics themselves are like the first floor of savage, but when you consider doing it as 24 people, it might bump up to the level of a second savage floor" [laughs]

Unofficial translation of the Nov 1st Live Letter. Mentioned while showing off the mounts on stream.

Literally laughing in the face of casual players and egging on hardcore raiders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenrar28

The "filthy casual" mindset is a bleed over of toxicity from WoW refugees. Just blacklist them and move on.

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I'm a casual who left WoW for a number of reasons, chief among them being that the game took a pretty stark shift 5 or 6 expansions ago to 'treadmill or die', and everything surrounding that was basically boiled down into something resembling a mobile game. Kinda why the focus on raiders in FFXIV leaves a bad taste in my mouth--I play MMOs to relax, if I wanted to grind down my frontal lobe on the 1 grit sandpaper of a progression treadmill, I'd go play competitive Valorant or something equally miserable.

The MMO genre in general is dying, and it's probably one of the saddest rise and fall stories of the Information Age. We probably won't get something like it again until NerveGear becomes a thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

We're still unironically using the phrase "WoW refugee" in the year of our lord 2025?

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I feel like it's still a good term for anyone who left WoW sometime in the 2019-2021 period.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

Especially funny given that anyone and everyone who plays both WoW and FFXIV is playing WoW these days because the game is in a much better state than FFXIV is.

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https://i.imgur.com/YD1rzFz.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Oh, hardly. There's people that insist PCT is "fine" and BLM can go kick rocks, people who insist Dawntrail was "great" and anyone complaining was just a doomer, and there's people now who bring up the Curls specifically to try and justify the new hairstyle being locked behind Chaotic because "you already got one, you don't deserve another".

That the harder content is just asset flips should be a major complaint in of its self, even the mechanics of Chaotic are supposedly not new, they're just faster and hit harder. So one side gets to chomp at air and the either gets easily turned over slop? Maybe the hardcore crowd would do better making complaints of their own instead of crowing because clearly Square-Enix doesn't respect THEIR money either.

Chaotic was supposed to be a different story because the content was "expected" to be an olive branch of playing styles for shared rewards and turned into bloody thorns instead, and that's after half a year of casual players getting nothing in the meantime. Frickin' hell, it's not even a "raid" it's just another boss room, so even the ones who can manage the content got short-changed something fierce.

And no, it's absolutely malicious coming from parts of the hardcore playerbase, right down to being hopeful that casuals quit in droves over the expansion's shift, they WANT them to leave, including thinking the game will be better for it. They're literally in the topic.

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What shift?

Some of you have very short memories.

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...b1db9f007372c/
https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...86abb201c2437/

Endwalker was near identical in terms of the content that has been released with Dawntrail so far. There really hadn't been much besides 3 extreme trials, a savage tier, an ultimate, the first alliance raid, the intro Hildebrand quest, the first beast tribe and custom delivery.

The problem is not that there has been some kind of shift away from casual content. The problem is that the release schedule is incredibly predictable and formulaic and there's never anything to do for the entire first year of an expansion.

If people perceive there to be less casual content in Dawntrail so far compared to previous expansions, it's because they've finally run out of old content to plug the gap at the start of an expansion.

I hate to say this but Yoahi-P is becoming increasingly out of touch with the majority of the player base.
He is turning into Ion Hazzizkostas right before our eyes and we all know how well that ended for WoW.
How did Yoshi-P not see this us vs them, casual vs hardcore, coming? This could all have been avoided if they made an 24 ex version of the raid along side the savage version (like what they did with criterion)

The numbers from LuckyBancho hopefully will be a wake up call for SE. They might not notice our discontent, but that hit to their bottom line will surely be noticed by the higher ups. We can’t trust Yoshi-P anymore to always do right by us, so I hope Mr. Takashi gets involved and nudges CBU3 back on track.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I've only been playing for two years, I can't exactly have memories for a time I wasn't here for.

Though none of what else you said helps matters, because it just means I was outright lied to regarding not only the cadence of content and how much of it is actually casual (I would not count Extremes or Field Operations for example as some do), but it means you and others even MORE reason to be upset because I'm only going through one badly paced expansion when some of you have gone through several for a DECADE.

How the hell do the rest of you people put up with this? How did this game even last until now?

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The few times I've seen you talk you have mentioned being around Stormblood, so I don't really know why you of anybody is complaining about a lack of casual content

You should have plenty to be doing, unless you purely do MSQ and nothing else

Personally, I'd consider Field Operations casual content, and that's something that I genuinely enjoy. What you basically do is complete fates and you have some extra things thrown in

Some bosses can prove a challenge, but it becomes much easier once you learn the mechanics. I don't know why people seem so allergic to dying in the video game like it's SAO

So I'm genuinely curious what you find casual

I'm really not sure someone who struggles with alliance raids and MSQ duties should be weighing in on the amount/quality of casual content this game has.
It's a terribly low bar to set and not fun for the majority of players, to target such a unique outlier.
I say this as someone who has a special needs player in my FC and had to help them complete the Feo Ul typing MSQ because that was their limit of difficulty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I've only been playing for two years, I can't exactly have memories for a time I wasn't here for.

Though none of what else you said helps matters, because it just means I was outright lied to regarding not only the cadence of content and how much of it is actually casual (I would not count Extremes or Field Operations for example as some do), but it means you and others even MORE reason to be upset because I'm only going through one badly paced expansion when some of you have gone through several for a DECADE.

How the hell do the rest of you people put up with this? How did this game even last until now?

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There will be more casual content but it comes later in the expansion.

There was a better mix of content earlier in the expansion prior to Shb. That was the turning point when things started getting pushed really far back into the expansion release cycle but it was always at least somewhat like this.

There are a few reasons that people have put up with it until now. For one, Yoshi-P and the rest of the team accrued a huge amount of goodwill from the community due to the dedication and hard work that was put in to turn things around after 1.0. People were generally willing to give them a pass when they slipped up because they were trying their best and everyone makes mistakes.

The game was also generally a lot more complex and things were more time consuming in the early days, so content tended to last a bit longer.

Stormblood was also an absolutely stacked expansion. Between things like the ultimate raids and Eureka there was a huge amount of content that people didn't finish at the time and they had that to go back to when they had less to do later. Heavensward was kind of rough and Stormblood turned things around and then some. That expansion was a huge W for the devs.

Shadowbringers was released during COVID, so they got a pass for the entirety of that expansion because everyone knew that COVID will have certainly affected development and things would obviously get better again later.

Endwalker was when people really started to become a bit more critical. They couldn't really use COVID as an excuse any more and people were starting to run out of old content to go back to when the new content didn't last.

Now we're in Dawntrail and the people who have been around for a while are basically all out of old content to plug the gaps with and all that goodwill is starting to fade as people feel like they've been playing Shb for the best part of 6 years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

I feel like it's still a good term for anyone who left WoW sometime in the 2019-2021 period.

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Nah, not really. Time for new parlance, because calling someone a WoW refugee is extremely cringe-inducing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

There will be more casual content but it comes later in the expansion.

There was a better mix of content earlier in the expansion prior to Shb. That was the turning point when things started getting pushed really far back into the expansion release cycle but it was always at least somewhat like this.

There are a few reasons that people have put up with it until now. For one, Yoshi-P and the rest of the team accrued a huge amount of goodwill from the community due to the dedication and hard work that was put in to turn things around after 1.0. People were generally willing to give them a pass when they slipped up because they were trying their best and everyone makes mistakes.

The game was also generally a lot more complex and things were more time consuming in the early days, so content tended to last a bit longer.

Stormblood was also an absolutely stacked expansion. Between things like the ultimate raids and Eureka there was a huge amount of content that people didn't finish at the time and they had that to go back to when they had less to do later.

Shadowbringers was released during COVID, so they got a pass for the entirety of that expansion because everyone knew that COVID will have certainly affected development and things would obviously get better again later.

Endwalker was when people really started to become a bit more critical. They couldn't really use COVID as an excuse any more and people were starting to run out of old content to go back to when the new content didn't last.

Now we're in Dawntrail and the people who have been around for a while are basically all out of old content to plug the gaps with and all that goodwill is starting to fade as people feel like they've been playing Shb for the best part of 6 years.

---

Shadowbringers really was the best expansion, honestly. My only complaint in the entirity of it was that Bozja relied too much on gating the fun stuff behind FATE grinding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

What shift?

Some of you have very short memories.

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...b1db9f007372c/
https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...86abb201c2437/

Endwalker was near identical in terms of the content that has been released with Dawntrail so far. There really hadn't been much besides 3 extreme trials, a savage tier, an ultimate, the first alliance raid, the intro Hildebrand quest, the first beast tribe and custom delivery.

The problem is not that there has been some kind of shift away from casual content. The problem is that the release schedule is incredibly predictable and formulaic and there's never anything to do for the entire first year of an expansion.

If people perceive there to be less casual content in Dawntrail so far compared to previous expansions, it's because they've finally run out of old content to plug the gap at the start of an expansion.

---

Perhaps so, but the addition of Chaotic raid, right after FRU, made us even more acutely aware of the lack of casual content, while the hardcores are eating well this patch with back to back hard raids. That is the source of all the resentment. Had they released the Chaotic with a more accessible midcore version, this might have been avoided. Or they could have released the Chaotic after the new exploratory zone when the casuals are busy. Or they could have released the exploratory zone sooner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Oh, hardly. There's people that insist PCT is "fine" and BLM can go kick rocks, people who insist Dawntrail was "great" and anyone complaining was just a doomer, and there's people now who bring up the Curls specifically to try and justify the new hairstyle being locked behind Chaotic because "you already got one, you don't deserve another".

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

And no, it's absolutely malicious coming from parts of the hardcore playerbase, right down to being hopeful that casuals quit in droves over the expansion's shift, they WANT them to leave, including thinking the game will be better for it. They're literally in the topic.

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And there are people who claim that the earth is flat. But, this does not objectively make the planet flat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

Nah, not really. Time for new parlance, because calling someone a WoW refugee is extremely cringe-inducing.

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Well, like, that's just your opinion man.

I still consider myself a WoW refugee.