7.15 Patch Notes - PvP

These have me a little puzzled, possibly because as usual they are being driven by CC rather than FL. That said, and from a FL perspective:

PLD: Nerf to Guardian via recast. Why? Don't understand the fiddling with Sword/Shield Oath.

MNK, VPR & DRG: All buffed for potency. Likely makes sense.

SAM: Potency nerfs. Doesn't this make it even more of a one-trick pony?

BRD & MCH: Potency buffs. Don't really understand why. Maybe for MCH it makes sense. (Edit: the "why" here and for all other jobs is based on CC win-rates.)

BLM, SMN, PIC, SGE: No idea, don't play 'em, but I didn't have a sense they all needed to be buffed.

AST: Boom, meet the nerf bat. Surprised they acted so fast. The big one here is Heavy (and now Bind for the doublecast) only applying to the first target. I think that's going to make a big difference, along with the other nerfs.

Thoughts, comrades?

Most seem to make sense to me. MCH doesn't need more firepower, it already sports the craziest damage bursts in the game, but I'm not complaining. Drill after all on its own, can feel a little lacking especially when not analyzed. But it's analyzed bioblaster that absolutely sucks and could need some love. Or maybe they could have targeted the job's defensive or utility options, but either way I don't hate the buff.

I do understand why they're trying to reinforced the damage of PLD a little and tone down the defensive. They explain it pretty well in the reasoning behind the adjustments. I like that PLD is a defensive profile but since 7.1 it's been a little lopsided. Guardian is super potent when used right in conjunction with pocket regen healers as well, but on the other hand there is ways to punish PLD players in relation to guardian so I don't feel strongly about this either way (focus target the PLD until they guard, or delete them after they covered someone if you can, cover already comes at the cost of them having to step back after: as a MCH my favorite past time is to Spite them out of the game when they cover someone, and it removes a strong frontliner from the enemy team).

BRD is struggling a lot in success rates right now.

SAM has never been a one trick pony, only in lower ranks, and since 7.1 it's been very strong, dishing out a crazy amount of damage. It's warranted.

AST nerfs are welcome. I also appreciate the addition to LoS on minor arcana and the reduction to their buffs which was absolutely wild.

An issue when playing dragoon in PvP wherein having Down for the Count inflicted at the same moment Sky High is executed would result in temporary invulnerability even after returning to battle.

Funny that mod moved the bug report to insufficient information, but here the devs are fixing it.

An issue when playing white mage in PvP wherein the additional effect of Seraph Strike that reduces damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10% would not activate.

Was also mentioned on the forums.

An issue with the dark knight PvP action Eventide, wherein players would KO under the effect of Undead Redemption under certain circumstances.

Saw this a few times, wondered what happened lol, the drk lost the match because of it the seconds after.


I would have made pld for 1s cc immune when starting to cover, increase cover tether range 50% and remove the gapclose effect, but they thought they deserve a nerf. Okay.

I am glad they fixed the buff application from Dance of the Dawn especially, because the ghosting was absolutely maddening on a skill that takes 2s to animate and resolve.

Mch does have nice attack power since they reduced full metal field from 5 to 4 attacks to execute. It has been a little bit to adapt to since I relied on the heavy from my biolblaster to give me an escape route or create distance from my opponents after lunging in with the equivalent of a shotgun attack. It puts complete risk on the mch and at the same time, I still have to get rid of that attack in my rotation so a little more risk involved.

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Originally Posted by Valence

BRD is struggling a lot in success rates right now.

SAM has never been a one trick pony, only in lower ranks, and since 7.1 it's been very strong, dishing out a crazy amount of damage. It's warranted.

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I suspect these may be the two that have the greatest difference between FL and CC right now, and part of that isn't actually due to their kits. Loads of people are playing BRD, and Olivia rates it highly now. SAM has been played quite a lot, but as an enemy I really only notice it when I accidentally clip one of the damn things. Guessing this is because it's mired in the melee malaise and mostly manages mayhem through its one-shot.

Hopefully the SGE buffs make it feel less like griefing my team by picking it. SCH buffs are pretty nice.

Sam chiten against multi-hitting moves was hilarious, especially ninja or blm. It's short but very strong. Most of these changes make sense. Good to see sage buffed, it just wasn't doing it in aoe.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/pvp/

At the bottom, Patch 7.15 Adjustments Overview. They gave some solid reasons (Besides just mentioning win rates in some of them).

I feel like VPR and SGE are gonna need some extra love though.

As a PLD player, honestly this is completely justified. I expected more nerfs today, but was pleasantly surprised to see a small buff to our burst. Even as an enabler I think cover + Elixir is pretty toxic, and as long as that's a thing I am fine with such a powerful tool having to be used with more consideration.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Eh, the MCH "buff" won't really make much of a difference when we're still one of the most impacted jobs from the hit detection changes/increased HP pools (still trying to get a KO with LB since 7.1) and have non-utility/nil-survival compared to the rest of the ranged jobs that can hit harder, do more, and live long enough to do it.

Hell, the increased amount of other ranged jobs showing up has rendered two of our skills defunct, with one of those skills throttling our Tool rotation, or how everyone and their dog can do Guard pierce now so MCH doesn't even have that going for it anymore, Drill's damage be damned.

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Are you talking about Frontline?

Wasn't expecting the Astro gravity nerf, but it's made my poor and reckless playstyle more enjoyable.
Glad they fixed buffs not going off when you hit someone who happened to die during your 300ms wind up attack animations.

As far as the changes concern Frontlines, the changes will do nothing to shift teams from being 99% ranged. The Potency changes are nice, but without diminished returns, Melee will still remain out of favor, and the many buffs given out to ranged jobs will cement that further, aside from AST. They deserved the smack down and nerfs they recieved.

Not significant enough changes to revive my interest in PvP.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

As far as the changes concern Frontlines, the changes will do nothing to shift teams from being 99% ranged. The Potency changes are nice, but without diminished returns, Melee will still remain out of favor, and the many buffs given out to ranged jobs will cement that further, aside from AST. They deserved the smack down and nerfs they recieved.

Not significant enough changes to revive my interest in PvP.

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I figured after enough matches I'd get used to the new hit detection and other issues, but I just don't enjoy the way it feels. Will have all jobs at 100 by the end of the week, then I'm done with PvP until the role actions get added.

FWIW, the games are for the most part more interesting, in the sense the DRK meta is no more. And playing ranged is less bad than melee/tank. But overall it's just not my thing anymore.

The DRK meta hasn't changed. 7.1 and 7.15 did nothing to change that unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Eh, the MCH "buff" won't really make much of a difference when we're still one of the most impacted jobs from the hit detection changes/increased HP pools (still trying to get a KO with LB since 7.1) and have non-utility/nil-survival compared to the rest of the ranged jobs that can hit harder, do more, and live long enough to do it.

Hell, the increased amount of other ranged jobs showing up has rendered two of our skills defunct, with one of those skills throttling our Tool rotation, or how everyone and their dog can do Guard pierce now so MCH doesn't even have that going for it anymore, Drill's damage be damned.

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To clarify, on my earlier post, I meant wildfire being the reduced action from 5 to 4. Full Metal Field being the new action that generally follows up the combo. It's likely why they nerfed our Marksmans spite. Though not many I've seen, pop guard in time to stop it.
This patch felt like an overhaul of the heavy/displacement actions on a large scale and I can understand. I guess the only thing to do is use bioblaster and save analysis for Air Anchor on the follow up attack since that provides a stun instead of bind and keep your Scattergun on hand for your get-away tactic.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

The DRK meta hasn't changed. 7.1 and 7.15 did nothing to change that unfortunately.

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I'm guessing this varies between DCs? Basically nobody is playing DRK on Aether.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I'm guessing this varies between DCs? Basically nobody is playing DRK on Aether.

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Same for Primal. Well, not "nobody" but the draw-in is three times more reactable to now to the point of you can purify or shield on-reaction as the DRK's salted animation begins, making the old tactic not nearly as effective for randos. This is probably the most varied FL matches have been in a while.

The changes to Shield Oath do not feel good. While I fell in love with PLD for the unique playstyle of having to balance your defensives for your teammates vs yourself in Guardian, and therefor want to be able to use it as often as possible, I can understand why they've made that change. My own survivability has felt pretty hampered by the tweak to Shield Oath, though, which ultimately is a lot more frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Same for Primal. Well, not "nobody" but the draw-in is three times more reactable to now to the point of you can purify or shield on-reaction as the DRK's salted animation begins, making the old tactic not nearly as effective for randos. This is probably the most varied FL matches have been in a while.

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On Aether I've been in multiple matches not only with no DRKs, but also with no tanks at all. SE sure has some novel ideas about balance.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

On Aether I've been in multiple matches not only with no DRKs, but also with no tanks at all. SE sure has some novel ideas about balance.

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It's almost like the balance of the jobs isn't taking Frontlines into account.
EDIT: Let's hope whatever role actions they are cooking up are actually going to help.

Paladin seem strong on paper, until you hit the diamond/crystal queue and cover targets at 0MP that do not want to use elixir to be full again. And with no chat available, you can't tell them either.
Quality of player would probably rise if they are allowed to talk with each other...Just warn and ban them if they are too toxic...But with the current playerbase, I don't think that would even be a thing.

That's super odd, I've rarely seen people not immediately pop elixirs when being covered past plat/diamond...

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Paladin seem strong on paper, until you hit the diamond/crystal queue and cover targets at 0MP that do not want to use elixir to be full again. And with no chat available, you can't tell them either.
Quality of player would probably rise if they are allowed to talk with each other...Just warn and ban them if they are too toxic...But with the current playerbase, I don't think that would even be a thing.

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A lot of issues could be fixed with proper moderation. I have next to no trust in the current system they have due Season 2 having an obvious wintrader and it took them 2 weeks with reports from 30+ people to actually take an action. So many games ruined and the perperator only got a slap on wrist with their points removed as they were back in queue (this time without their trader friend) in less than week.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Yeah, though I can't imagine MCH doing much better in Crystalline Conflict when it's easier to zero in and burst down a job that can't really defend its self with no escapes (and teammates are not there to peel or heal, it's every man for themselves), or that being ranged relies on enemies keeping their distance/being unaware of your presence in a mode where everyone is gathered at one relatively small spot at all times.

Though I guess the Drill damage might help in securing a kill in said close-space where all it takes is a little more damage to deny someone a medicine kit, or one death to start the respawn conga line.
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The thing is, I really hate that they've gone hard on the meme of making Wildfire a large part of our damage because I've yet to reliably kill anyone with that either because most jobs can take all the shots/explosion and still walk it off (and the movement speed boost means nothing when it's not on-command and every kind of CC will stop you cold anyway).

It's like the problem MCH has in PVE (subpar damage, zero utility) has come full-circle to PVP, but while I don't care about being "competitive" in PVE as I don't do hardcore content, I DO care about that here in PVP where the only reason we're not the worst DPS is because we're not melee, but at the same time our shortest range skills are some of the worst not just because of an increased inability to use them with all the ranged jobs staying away, but even when you CAN use them, Bioblaster is a dud (even with Analysis) and knockback doesn't help when they can still reach you anyway.

The lack of melee, especially tanks, just makes it more obvious we have virtually nothing to save ourselves in a jam, and my DPS is at the whim of hard-rotation while other ranged jobs can just spam all day and then skip away.

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I main MCH and even in crystal it's fine. It feels more survivable than last expansion with the HP increases, and the LB can still be used as a punitive tool (or just stun into LB, this is still a good combination to burst). It has more constraints than it used to, but it's still lethal. The WF burst is quite more lethal on the other hand, and probably the highest burst in the game even though WF still acts as a red flag for a knowledgeable opponent. If anything, it will enable a guard check which isn't a loss. The amount of AoE pressure the job has gained is pretty crazy as well. I have yet to try with the Drill buff but I don't think this is going to change that much but sometimes a 2k difference can be the difference between a live target and a dead target.

This is a team game, you're not supposed to solo kill people. WF burst is still imo the biggest alpha burst in pvp right now (some other jobs sequences may be higher on a sustained level but that's completely different and not a burst per se, and MCH is also pretty decent at sustained damage with FMF/blazing shot spamm or double hit scatter). It also possible to line up absolutely wild damage alphas with just analyzed chainsaw into WF LB which can oneshot almost every job without mitigation in the game but tanks.

Saying that MCH has no utility in pvp is weird to me. Analyzed Chainsaw is a thing, Anchor (analyzed or not) is a thing, and bishop is also a thing (and a pretty damn good one at that). Obviously in FL it will differ, the turret is not as good, although anchor no matter how used, is absolutely lethal in a mode where the smallest delay can mean that the angry enemy blob will catch you and murder you, and analyzed chainsaw I guess is... very dependent on how it gets used and who actually profits out of it or not. I do feel that the LB in FL is still as good or close to it as like before it asks you to farm your BH up enough so that you can actually do decent damage with it, but you have a lot more AoE tools to leech on assists everywhere with notably FMF from afar which should mean getting high BH provided you don't die, should be easier. Stun anchor into LB and delete ranged squishies or punish them. Since it's a ranged meta, I'd say that current MCH LB plays pretty well into it, because melees have always been an absolute pain to even harm with it anyway.

From the Frontline perspective, it's fantastic to see AST's continued fall from grace. They've been running this game mode for years and it's about time that ends.

I'm a bit perplexed by the Pictomancer buffs, though. PCT is already really strong in this mode because it has incredible AoE burst damage, which includes an AoE bind, and yet they receive buffs in every patch. If this keeps up, look forward to DRK/PCT dominance in future seasons.

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Originally Posted by pecorino

From the Frontline perspective, it's fantastic to see AST's continued fall from grace. They've been running this game mode for years and it's about time that ends.

I'm a bit perplexed by the Pictomancer buffs, though. PCT is already really strong in this mode because it has incredible AoE burst damage, which includes an AoE bind, and yet they receive buffs in every patch. If this keeps up, look forward to DRK/PCT dominance in future seasons.

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Oh my sides, thanks for the good laugh, ASTs have been running the game mode for years?

And, no, not surprised that PCT got some buffs, - and no, they didn't get buffed initially, the devs waited to buff them, as a new job, that made sense.

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Originally Posted by Valence

That's super odd, I've rarely seen people not immediately pop elixirs when being covered past plat/diamond...

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I guess if you queue midnight to early morning it is often PvP players who know what to do. Before that you get newbies that want to try how far they can get in their first season (Spoiler: Crystal). And then it becomes a game of "Why should I cover this player, I better save it for someone who uses elixir" and at that point knowledge about individual players becomes more important than skill. Fighting the matchmaking over skill. Absurdity.

I always queue between mid afternoon to mid evening. I have no idea how EU is in the middle of the night. Queues already seem to peter out past eleven or so...

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Paladin seem strong on paper, until you hit the diamond/crystal queue and cover targets at 0MP that do not want to use elixir to be full again. And with no chat available, you can't tell them either.
Quality of player would probably rise if they are allowed to talk with each other...Just warn and ban them if they are too toxic...But with the current playerbase, I don't think that would even be a thing.

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I am playing NA ranked at diamond+ on paladin and get overall good return on investment on my covers. Got to say my experience is radically different.

I do occasionally cover people who are clueless but you'll always get people who get into the higher ranks who are still learning (like yours truly).