UI and animation sync issues - Will 2.0 fix this?

These are two very large issues (Well, for me at least) that I never see discussed here, and was curious as to if they planned on being changed

The first is that the UI does not sync with battle animations. What I mean is, when executing a skill (particularly one with a longer animation, say, Simian Thrash), the server calculates whether the attack succeeds and how much damage it does, and the UI displays the result by depleting the mob's HP bar...all before the animation even starts. It takes a lot of the excitement and tension out of combat when you know the result before it actually happens. I believe the UI should sync with combat, not displaying the results until the animation actually strikes

My other problem is that there seems to be a universal and standard delay between all weapon skills. A sort of cooldown period to prevent you from doing WS instantaneously, one after another. The issue is that it appears to be the same for skills with animations that take one second, and others (Again, like Simian Thrash) that take significantly longer. So what happens is, I execute Simian Thrash, and as the animation is playing, I can already execute another skill. The UI will show the mob's HP depleting from the damage the second skill did, while still playing the animation for the first skill, often times not even playing the second animation at all

I hope all of that makes some sort of sense

Sounds like a server-client thing. I think we all experience it. FFXIV 1.0's architecture is famously poor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIJCQs-R7X4

Since they've got a completely new and improved architecture for 2.0, I'd immagine that the issues will be fixed, at the very least improved upon.

It all makes sense, but honestly, I think it's better this way.

Honestly, how would it feel if you pushed your Simian Thrash ability, and the animation starts going, then the mob kills you? Now what if you would have won by that weaponskill?

Another example is Chaos Thrust. What if you push the button, you reel back to deal the attack, and you get stunned.

I'm all for damage as it gets hit, but there would have to be different animations depending on if you get interrupted, stunned or killed.

That's a bit much for me.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

It all makes sense, but honestly, I think it's better this way.

Honestly, how would it feel if you pushed your Simian Thrash ability, and the animation starts going, then the mob kills you? Now what if you would have won by that weaponskill?

Another example is Chaos Thrust. What if you push the button, you reel back to deal the attack, and you get stunned.

I'm all for damage as it gets hit, but there would have to be different animations depending on if you get interrupted, stunned or killed.

That's a bit much for me.

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I think you're misunderstanding the point. I'm not asking for the adjustment of when damage is calculated, but when it's displayed. It can function how it does now, the outcome already decided, but sync the visual cue to what's actually happening on screen instead of ruining the grandeur. In other words, add a little immersion, make it less an obvious number game

Now the second issue, involving how WS can be used while other WS are currently playing their animation...that would require a bit of an adjustment to how combat works

This behavior is actually identical in FF11, and I think it's intentionally left that way, perhaps because it would require a lot extra work and network overhead to do.

I believe they said that there is actually a "switch" they can flip to make it so hp bars and such move at the end of animations, when the numbers pop up, but apparently a lot of the dev team felt that it felt really laggy or something and they were still testing it to see how viable it would be. There was talk about showing a video with the two options so people could see which was better.

For the damage to be dealt after the animations, I'd be demanding that the speed of those animations be at least doubled.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

For the damage to be dealt after the animations, I'd be demanding that the speed of those animations be at least doubled.

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Why so? Combat would flow the same as it does now, you'd just have to make decisions at a different speed because you wouldn't know the outcome until the event transpired

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Originally Posted by Mirage

This behavior is actually identical in FF11, and I think it's intentionally left that way, perhaps because it would require a lot extra work and network overhead to do.

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No -- In FFXI when I pop off a WS the damage, effect and reaction is all in sync and if the monster happen to die and I blink for example it will only kill the animation, but not delay the actual damage and reaction. In FFXIV you will get your damage return after the monster dies as well as it's reaction sometimes.

Also according to this:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...damage-display

They essentially did have a fix in mind/implemented but it would have strained the server.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

No -- In FFXI when I pop off a WS the damage, effect and reaction is all in sync and if the monster happen to die and I blink for example it will only kill the animation, but not delay the actual damage and reaction. In FFXIV you will get your damage return after the monster dies as well as it's reaction sometimes.

Also according to this:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...damage-display

They essentially did have a fix in mind/implemented but it would have strained the server.

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They mean it's the same thing as 11 in that the HP gets reduced from the target's HP bar once the action is initiated, regardless of the animation.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

Sounds like a server-client thing. I think we all experience it. FFXIV 1.0's architecture is famously poor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIJCQs-R7X4

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What's wrong with that? Everyone knows the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

Since they've got a completely new and improved architecture for 2.0, I'd immagine that the issues will be fixed, at the very least improved upon.

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We have no idea what they have. I highly doubt it's a "completely new" architecture. I think "2.0" is still going to perform much like it does now when first released. If they had a new and better server architecture why not just update now?

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Originally Posted by Laraul

What's wrong with that? Everyone knows the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.



We have no idea what they have. I highly doubt it's a "completely new" architecture. I think "2.0" is still going to perform much like it does now when first released. If they had a new and better server architecture why not just update now?

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The reason is because the new architecture is different enough that is simply can't be dropped into 1.X, which is why we even have 2.0 in the first place. Trust me, if SE could have revamped everything w/o a complete rewrite, that would have been the route they took to fix the game from it's release state. Unfortunately, they bumped into so many issues with the gfx engine and it's extremely tight integration to the UI and other things that they were unable to do that with a live game.

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Originally Posted by Jocko

Why so? Combat would flow the same as it does now, you'd just have to make decisions at a different speed because you wouldn't know the outcome until the event transpired

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Because it would suck having to anticipate the end of the animations, especially when we're used to the current setup.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

The reason is because the new architecture is different enough that is simply can't be dropped into 1.X, which is why we even have 2.0 in the first place. Trust me, if SE could have revamped everything w/o a complete rewrite, that would have been the route they took to fix the game from it's release state. Unfortunately, they bumped into so many issues with the gfx engine and it's extremely tight integration to the UI and other things that they were unable to do that with a live game.

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They aren't revamping everything either. And after spending seven years working on the current game engine, they are not going to abandon it. It's a huge investment to create a new game engine from scratch. And what issues with the GFX engine are you referring to? Sounds like you are saying they hard coded the UI or something. The game passes all user interaction thru a lua interpreter. The UI is polled and updated 30 times a second. It's not part of the 3D rendered image.

You've been playing since Mar 2011. You tell me, have they made many substantial improvements to the game? Of course they have. They proven the existing game can be improved. So there is no reason for a rebuilt client/server engine.

Not true, they have siad numerous times that with the way current game has been written it's almost impossible to improve on some stuff without serious reworkings which would take more work than just doing 2.0.

Also, they did not really do many improvements of the type you are talking about here. Optimization has not been improved, (what issues with gfx engine? really? XIV is one of the worst optimized MMOs ever) UI lag has been only slightly relieved, they can't do anything about retainer lag, problem with objects loading and so on and so on. All improvements are basically contents-side, with changes to battle and classes (yes, still nothing engine wise).

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Originally Posted by Estellios

I believe they said that there is actually a "switch" they can flip to make it so hp bars and such move at the end of animations, when the numbers pop up, but apparently a lot of the dev team felt that it felt really laggy or something and they were still testing it to see how viable it would be. There was talk about showing a video with the two options so people could see which was better.

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This. Though actually the talk was about letting us test the other version, but it never happened.

Also, the damage should be displayed and dealt not at the end of the animation, but at the moment it is visually dealt.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

They mean it's the same thing as 11 in that the HP gets reduced from the target's HP bar once the action is initiated, regardless of the animation.

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Yes, that's what I meant. Damage dealt is shown in the log after the animation, but the monster's hp bar is reduced right as you initiate the command.

The clients not showing the monsters as dead before the animation is over would also lead to other players continuing to deal damage to a mob with 0 hp. Unless you would show the mobs with remaining HP but disallow other players to keep attacking it, which would give away the "secret" about it already being dead the second they tried to attack it and got a message such as "invalid target" or something like that.

What we have currently:
You attack an enemy with a WS -> client get dmg calculation from the server -> Enemy hp bar get smaller -> WS animation start

This was the first I noticed during the beta and thought that should be a bug.

What I want:
You attack an enemy with a WS -> client get dmg calculation from the server -> WS animation start -> Enemy hp bar get smaller (during or after the animation)

The showed dmg should not be before the showed attack

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Originally Posted by Mirage

The clients not showing the monsters as dead before the animation is over would also lead to other players continuing to deal damage to a mob with 0 hp. Unless you would show the mobs with remaining HP but disallow other players to keep attacking it, which would give away the "secret" about it already being dead the second they tried to attack it and got a message such as "invalid target" or something like that.

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The enemy can die during the animation.

Yeah, and that would require more server-client communication than we currently have. Which is probably why stuff dies instantly as we use a high damage attack now. It's convenient and more efficient, programming/network wise.