please address the 100 Trial (and EX) being major motion sickess/epilepsy trigger!

hi there!

i am posting this to bring attention to the level 100 trial and its VFX effects. i am someone who deals with severe motion sickness and is in the process of being diagnosed with a neurological condition that causes my motion sickness. i am a long time fan, but this is something that affects my ability to play and enjoy the game and i often try to separate myself from things that are intense visually so i don't trigger episodes.

however, the 100 trial is mandatory MSQ content, and therefore unavoidable. my first time playing through the trial, i had a horrible motion sickness episode that resulted in me not being able to play the game for several hours afterwards due to dizziness and migraine. i was able to complete the trial after a wonderful and very understanding party experience, but i dread queuing for Trials roulette knowing that i could possibly get the 100 Trial. i often drop out of the party if i get the trial because i cannot subject myself to a motion sickness episode for the sake of a roulette. i have also resigned myself to the fact that i will likely never be able to complete the 100 trial EX because of the visuals, which is a shame, because i really do like doing EX content!

as a long time player of this game, i am pretty disappointed!! i personally only experience problems with motion sickness, but there are people out there who play FFXIV that struggle with migraines, vertigo, and even seizures who are also forced to attempt to finish MSQ by beating their head into a Trial that is a risk to their health. i also know this is not the only instance in which the dev team has included visuals that are dangerous to those with epilepsy (the final Nier raid is what first comes to mind, i am sure there are plenty others), and it is disappointing that this sort of thing is not even taken into consideration when making these fights.

at the very least, i would like for there to be a "photosensitivity" mode that allows you to disable or weaken these visuals for the game in general. we're allowed to disabled player skill animations and VFX, so i feel as if making the visuals in fights as a toggle-able setting wouldn't be completely out of the realm of possibility.

by posting this, i hope there are others that share similar disabilities and sensitivities to visuals that will share their experiences and share similar sentiments to how these visuals affect their ability to play the game. and i hope SE will respond in a way that is helpful and empathetic.

I'ma be real. It might not be worth it to do these fights if ur feeling that way. The new ex rotation is cool but if they have to change it due to that ur punishing us as well. Yeah i get its a problem you have but i dont share motion sickness. So it feels like the game were trying to have fun with is being forced to belcome stagnant on ideas.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

I'ma be real. It might not be worth it to do these fights if ur feeling that way. The new ex rotation is cool but if they have to change it due to that ur punishing us as well. Yeah i get its a problem you have but i dont share motion sickness. So it feels like the game were trying to have fun with is being forced to belcome stagnant on ideas.

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Yikes. Talk about lack of empathy.

Anyway, I think this really is an issue that should be addressed. It wouldn't be the first time they have needed to adjust things due to how it affects people. OP is definitely not the only one experiencing this as I've seen a few other posts here and on Reddit discussing this same matter.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

I'ma be real. It might not be worth it to do these fights if ur feeling that way. The new ex rotation is cool but if they have to change it due to that ur punishing us as well. Yeah i get its a problem you have but i dont share motion sickness. So it feels like the game were trying to have fun with is being forced to belcome stagnant on ideas.

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bro-- we had the same issue with the Nier raid series, and it was tuned properly to avoid the issues with seizures after people started falling like flies to it. The fights can still be fun, just update the adjusted colors and motion and you'd barely notice it.

I'm still mad we lost mount tilt because people complaining about motion sickness. This game going to crap cause they are babies there I said it.

Yeah I have to say everytime they do anything people come out to complain about this and that, and I feel for everyone out there with their specific health issues but I don't think they can design anything anymore of they take them all into account.

Not sure why the comments are being so dismissive of this. Photosensitivity and seizure disorders are meant to be taken into account when designing video games, this isn't some niche issue that only "babies" have. Do you guys think epilepsy is a choice?

People on both sides here are acting like fixing the accessibility issue has to change anything for people who don't have health conditions. It doesn't, they are called optional settings. Things like this should be an optional toggle, nothing more or less. If you choose to (optionally) toggle it then it'll adjust the colours and intensity of certain affects and that way people with certain conditions can still be supported and people without experience no loss of content.

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Originally Posted by flowerkatie

People on both sides here are acting like fixing the accessibility issue has to change anything for people who don't have health conditions. It doesn't, they are called optional settings. Things like this should be an optional toggle, nothing more or less. If you choose to (optionally) toggle it then it'll adjust the colours and intensity of certain affects and that way people with certain conditions can still be supported and people without experience no loss of content.

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Absolutely, yes. But people are acting like this because of the recent mount and character tilt changes, when we got an option to turn it off, but when it’s on it’s barely noticeable and to me feels like as if it’s turned off. And also the fact that the devs make the game super easy in general, without providing any threatening content. Yeah raids may be hard and challenging but after a few clears you just autopilot it because of how scripted they are, and if you make a mistake it’s not threatening, it’s just an instant wipe.

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Originally Posted by sylphlands

Not sure why the comments are being so dismissive of this. Photosensitivity and seizure disorders are meant to be taken into account when designing video games, this isn't some niche issue that only "babies" have. Do you guys think epilepsy is a choice?

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SE doesn't seem to think people have those issue since each patch everything becomes more and more flashier.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

I'm still mad we lost mount tilt because people complaining about motion sickness. This game going to crap cause they are babies there I said it.

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The following additions and adjustments have been made to the tilt effect when moving:

• Character tilt when turning has been added.
• Character tilt when turning while riding a mount has been added.
• The speed at which certain mounts tilt when turning has been decreased.
• Mount and character tilt can now be toggled on or off.
  - Adjust tilt settings via the Character Configuration menu by selecting Control Settings followed by the Character tab, then checking or unchecking the options under "Effects While in Motion."

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The tilt is still there, it just isn't turning as hard when you start turning in one direction. It also doesn't count for all mounts.

You can turn all effects off? Though I agree the absolute explosion of effects could be tuned down a bit.

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Originally Posted by flowerkatie

People on both sides here are acting like fixing the accessibility issue has to change anything for people who don't have health conditions. It doesn't, they are called optional settings. Things like this should be an optional toggle, nothing more or less. If you choose to (optionally) toggle it then it'll adjust the colours and intensity of certain affects and that way people with certain conditions can still be supported and people without experience no loss of content.

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This.

The thing is, we now do have a mount toggle, it's just that the devs implemented it in a really clumsy way that's not representative of well-done accessibility options.
For incomprehensible reasons they decided to nerf the existing tilt as well. This would not have been necessary and is not an unavoidable consequence of adding accessibility settings. It's just a strange, deliberate design decision. It would have been perfectly possible to leave the tilt the way it was in 7.0 and still implement a toggle. There you go. Accessibility for those who have motion sickness, fun visual effect for those who don't.

I really don't think video games need to lose features that make them fun in order to address negative effects on some people's physical well-being. You can simply give people the option to turn them off (esp. for people with serious health concerns, we are talking about epilepsy here among other things, like come on).

Sekiro even has a toggle for turning blood effects on and off. This has zero effect on people who like blood effects but also serves those who don't want them. Both sides get what they want. Nothing is taken away.

There's a reason why you often have explicit epilepsy warnings before some video games or movies. These things matter and addressing them doesn't have to come at the expense of those who don't suffer from them.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

You can turn all effects off? Though I agree the absolute explosion of effects could be tuned down a bit.

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You can only turn off effects from everyone else + yourself if you fancy that, but you cannot turn that off for enemies.

Since we are talking about EX and accessibility, let me say that certain people with color blindness have a hard time seeing the yellow and green platforms in the second phase of the fight.

Thinking that people who feel motion sick or are disabled in one way or another as being 'babies' is genuinely the most disgusting thing I read this whole year.

People don't get to choose to be unwell, some people take their health for granted and lack any form of empathy or emotional intelligence to sympathize with someone who might be negatively affected.

It's a bad design if your game is causing harm to your players. This game always had issues with visual clarity and now it's alot worse.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

There's a reason why you often have explicit epilepsy warnings before some video games or movies.

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Perhaps this is what needs to be implemented. It's a game about fantasy fights with spells/explosions/giant monsters/epic battles. I do agree people should be warned it will be visually messy. What I don't want is the game being more neutered than it already is. They already nerfed the tilt feature just recently.

The last think I want is a fight that now doesnt have explosions, that doesn't have movement, that doesn't have color, or content removed because it causes people anxiety, or monsters removed because people have phobias to them. Remember how they changed the SGE logo because of people with trypophobia or something? Next thing we won't have spiders, or what not.

And all this costs DEV resources to move or modify things they already implemented instead of making new content of which there is barely any now a days. And thus the complexity of making anything new just bloats and bloats. So I 100% agree people should be warned, but I think the game needs to be designed in a way where it's fun for the mass market.

I like big explosions, I liked the big tilt that's barely there anymore.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Perhaps this is what needs to be implemented. It's a game about fantasy fights with spells/explosions/giant monsters/epic battles. I do agree people should be warned it will be visually messy. What I don't want is the game being more neutered than it already is. They already nerfed the tilt feature just recently.

The last think I want is a fight that now doesnt have explosions, that doesn't have movement, that doesn't have color, or content removed because it causes people anxiety, or monsters removed because people have phobias to them. Remember how they changed the SGE logo because of people with trypophobia or something? Next thing we won't have spiders, or what not.

And all this costs DEV resources to move or modify things they already implemented instead of making new content of which there is barely any now a days. And thus the complexity of making anything new just bloats and bloats. So I 100% agree people should be warned, but I think the game needs to be designed in a way where it's fun for the mass market.

I like big explosions, I liked the big tilt that's barely there anymore.

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I think you're being hyperbolic, your game won't vanish into thin air if they added accessibility OPTIONS. The game isn't being neutured because 'muh disabled peepo are ruining muh game'. Adding accessibility options to players shouldn't make it worse.

They decided that the mount tilt was excessive but people are using others who felt motion sick from mount tilt as scape goats and people to blame for the game being 'worse' it's honestly disgusting.

Stop trying to point fingers.

hi! i was not at all referring to the EX exclusively. i can simply not do the EX, i understand that entirely, lol. it sucks but it is what it is. it is optional content and i do not have to do it.

but, the trial itself is MSQ mandatory. i there was no way i could just NOT don the normal version, because the game MAKES you do it to progress the story. i literally would have just had to straight up stop playing the game and stop progressing the story, and stop doing trials roulette for the risk of getting ONE trial out of dozens that cause me episodes. and seeing as i have been playing this game for a very long time, i have no interest in giving it up simply because SE made a questionable choice in visual effects. :) this is why i added at the end, that i wish they would add a toggle that allows you to disable these sorts of effects in instanced content, like they do with player effects, so that everyone can tune the game to their liking. thank you for responding, though.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

I'm still mad we lost mount tilt because people complaining about motion sickness. This game going to crap cause they are babies there I said it.

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You lost it because SE overnerfed it in the same patch they added toggles for it. They're to blame, not people being prone to motion sickness, be serious.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Yeah I have to say everytime they do anything people come out to complain about this and that, and I feel for everyone out there with their specific health issues but I don't think they can design anything anymore of they take them all into account.

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They can, they do and they absolutely should give us toggles for everything. Reduced motion have been an option in games for the past 10 years and multiple SE games as well since 2017. They're the one to blame if they don't give you options suited for your needs and wishes. Not disabled people.


This game has been way, way behind regarding accessibility options ever since it released really, and it also applies to encounters. P3s all orange arena, E8s white shine on blue soaks, E6s Garuda aoes being clear green on green area. (Even more recently M2s audio bug, but it got fixed.)

If they aren't going to fix those issues themselves, they might as well give us the options to fix their messes so we can play the damn game. How about that?

People thinking that removing mount tilting and tuning fights to reduce motion sickness is akin to restricting ideas? Wtf? Have you set your bar so low? These are just poorly implemented features that need minor adjustments for people who need it, period.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

SE doesn't seem to think people have those issue since each patch everything becomes more and more flashier.

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I did Copied Factory for the first time since DT came out, after doing the new alliance earlier the same day, and this was especially noticeable and frustrating. The new one has so much glow and bloom on effects it's awful.

this game slowly turn into mobile game, what's next, add auto combat ingame because people will complain they doesn't has time to play

Given this thread's title, I don't understand some of the complaints this game gets. I am baffled by how someone with motion sickness and epilepsy could even MAKE IT to level 50, let alone 100, considering all the flashing lights and motions. The game hasn't ever been lacking on that front.

Yes, these are real health issues, and they should be considered, but honestly, if anyone with those problems decides to play a game littered with them, that's their problem to deal with, and they shouldn't make it everyone else's.

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Originally Posted by EchoingPulse

Yes, these are real health issues, and they should be considered, but honestly, if anyone with those problems decides to play a game littered with them, that's their problem to deal with, and they shouldn't make it everyone else's.

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That's Square Enixs problem to fix. Other games do not have this issue and allows you -at the very least- to reduce motion as a whole.

Unless you personally are a CBU3 dev or decision maker, that isn't your problem to fix.

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Originally Posted by EchoingPulse

Given this thread's title, I don't understand some of the complaints this game gets. I am baffled by how someone with motion sickness and epilepsy could even MAKE IT to level 50, let alone 100, considering all the flashing lights and motions. The game hasn't ever been lacking on that front.

Yes, these are real health issues, and they should be considered, but honestly, if anyone with those problems decides to play a game littered with them, that's their problem to deal with, and they shouldn't make it everyone else's.

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I did not have motion sickness or issues until 7.0. There is a thread full of people that only started having issues since 7.0. I have never had issues with it with any other game whether it be a game with a ton of visual effect or otherwise. Blaming people that have had no problems for over a decade playing FFXIV, sure is a choice. SE not only keeps cranking up the effects but they royally messed up something else with the graphics update.

People in this thread really out here acting like changing a color from red to blue so that people don't end up in the hospital or bedridden somehow makes a fight go from an Extreme to The Bowls of Ember ilvl 730 unsync'd.

But ignoring the privileged, I agree with OP. I think, at the very least, Square should consider making alternative effects for people. They might not be able to adjust to every sickness in the world, but they can adjust to some.

Not sure if this is a specific mechanic that affects OP, but as an example: Sincerely what would be the difference between the current floor mechanic with bent lines that moved to the same mechanic... but the bent lines don't move? It's literally just as clear and doesn't induce motion sickness in some. Literally no one messes up that mech unless they greed and you know it, because it's not hard to read anyways. It's only hard for people with specific illnesses.

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Originally Posted by Crimen

Yikes. Talk about lack of empathy.

Anyway, I think this really is an issue that should be addressed. It wouldn't be the first time they have needed to adjust things due to how it affects people. OP is definitely not the only one experiencing this as I've seen a few other posts here and on Reddit discussing this same matter.

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Ih believe me i do lack empathy for strangers but this is the same forum that had ppl like you guys complainingabout savage difficulty, and msq difficulty last thing allot of us want is for our experience of fun to be ruined. Hate to tell u but ppl thumbs up that comment means they agree with the sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Teno

People thinking that removing mount tilting and tuning fights to reduce motion sickness is akin to restricting ideas? Wtf? Have you set your bar so low? These are just poorly implemented features that need minor adjustments for people who need it, period.

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So lets see by ppl having motion sickness means stages cant spin, have unique tilting options, backgrounds cant be used to do unique spinning...sounds like restrictions. If mount tilting gave ppl motion sickness thats already proof enough. Any mechanic that indueces motion sickness would have to be removed for the sake of.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

bro-- we had the same issue with the Nier raid series, and it was tuned properly to avoid the issues with seizures after people started falling like flies to it. The fights can still be fun, just update the adjusted colors and motion and you'd barely notice it.

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I have never heard this before but if they did thats fine the mechanics are still there, you forgot that part. Also I dont suffer siezures so I wouldn't know that. Bought the most issues I have with fames is thalassaphobia and im not on forum demanding for square enix to remove under water portions of map. I still try to push under water. So yeah.......

I haven't entered it myself yet, haven't watched or seen the fight because I like to go into story content blind... but my younger cousin who formerly had no issues playing FFXIV before the graphics upgrade ended up vomiting into her trash can that sat by her PC because something made her dizzy... and then, well... yeah... My cousin has't ever gotten sick during a boss before, and unlike me, the kid (kid to me, she's a middling teen, I'm in my 30's) is a savage raider. This kid can take the visual spam to the face and not even bat an eye in ways I never could, but whatever was in that fight made her ill. I'm not even sure what it was, she couldn't pinpoint what exactly caused it...

She said she was just playing one second, and the next she just felt really dizzy and sick. It was weird... this has never happened before the graphics update, but in my personal opinion if it's enough to make her sick, it's certainly likely to make others sick too...

I think accessibility concerns with this game can quite as easily be addressed without impeding or stepping on the toes of people who don't have any accessibility issues e.g., motion sickness, epilepsy, color blindness.

I also think the people that are addressing the topic with such dismissiveness are also part of the problem with quality standards of the game.

As far as this game goes with accessibility standards, it's probably one of the absolute poorest experiences I've ever had, and as they increasingly focus on flashier encounters and GFX bloat, they only end up exacerbating the issue. - Much so to the point that I feel they are genuinely compensating in other areas to try and 'alleviate' their issues.