7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

I shouldn't even need to explain this, frankly. I don't understand why these changes were even considered, it should be very obvious to anyone who plays this job why reducing LotD Windows to a single Nastrond usage is a horrible change. For starters, this makes the job significantly less fun at earlier levels. Job changes should be trying to give the jobs a higher level of engagement at lower levels, not a decrease in it. My level 70 burst window is now a single OGCD? Awful.

Plus, there were no people complaining about the DRG burst window to begin with even at level 100. Yes, it was a lot of buttons to press, but we all enjoyed that, it's the core identity of the job. And now that identity is being further reduced? Please, I am actually begging, revert these changes, and anyone who agrees with these concerns, engage with this thread to show the devs that this is not a welcome change to a job that many of us have been playing for over a decade.

I really have no idea who these changes are for. They are baffling. Dragoon's gauge is not very unique anymore with the removal of eyes, simply granting access to a few damaging oGCDs. Now, we don't even get to press them a lot. Genuinely awful change. I really hope they revert the nastrond change.

Dragoon lost it's gauge and animation locking jump focused burst window, spamming 3 nastronds back to back was the only thing keeping me awake during ucob/uwu.
There was clearly 0 thought put into this change and I can only assume it's a misguided attempt to make DRG more accessible for everyone(aka these changes are just for people who don't and still wont play the job), because God forbid a job might have its own audience and identity.

It should be reverted as soon as possible, removing buttons and then giving a slight dps increase doesn't feel good at all and it just makes the job even more braindead boring at all levels, which hurts lower levels the most.

If they wanted to get rid of something for button bloat, Mirage dive was right there. Why not cut that and leave Nastrond alone?

can they please stop changing jobs just because people that dont even play them complain? being busy is DRGs thing and this change will make it feel like awful at lower levels. if people didnt like how busy DRG was they could have gone play any other job. what melee am I suposed to play now?

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Originally Posted by Imbrium

If they wanted to get rid of something for button bloat, Mirage dive was right there. Why not cut that and leave Nastrond alone?

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they did fix it in Endwalker then people complained about that too and reverted it
no winning

Get rid of 2 Nastrond uses, but keep the lame Life Surge buttons. Cool. lmao

sad dragon :(

This change freaking sucks so bad.

I've been playing as Dragoon since HW and have been jerked around by SE and their changes to this class for 9 years. DT finally made DRG *fun* again for me, and *RIGHT* as I'm about to leave the game after another week or two of reclears, SE goes and ruins the class again just to leave a bitter taste in my mouth in the end.

Good riddance. RIP Dragoon. Hopefully SE will invigorate you once more u.u

Ive seen many bad takes in this game but removing charges from Nastrond just shows how the dev team dont play the game. If you guys want to make Dragoon less busy you guys have: Mirage Dive and 2 charges of Life Surge that doesnt make sense this skill to exist in the game of today. I dont know if anyone from SE will read this forum but if you do..... give us at least 2 charges of Nastrond. Dont ruin a perfect job.

Who are these changes for?
Is someone at the dev team trying to play a joke here? do they have that much disconnect? or are we gonna have to settle for getting the second Summoner of Melee jobs after Viper?

I feel like dragoon has been reduced to just another melee job. It's beyond recognition to the job I played in Shadowbringers. I was already devastated when we lost Dragon Sight, where I was able to pick a person to bring in the damage buff. Now we're losing Nastrond. What's the point of playing this job if I can't weave Nastrond in between my rotation?

I'm not sure who these changes are for, but from the amount of posts I'm seeing about DT drg, I don't think it's for the drg mains. I'm upset that all these changes have taken away the things that make dragoon a unique job. Its thing is JUMPING. Why are you taking away its jumps?

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Originally Posted by blueswablu

I'm not sure who these changes are for, but from the amount of posts I'm seeing about DT drg, I don't think it's for the drg mains. I'm upset that all these changes have taken away the things that make dragoon a unique job. It's thing is JUMPING. Why are you taking away its jumps?

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You're exactly right. As we've been discussing in the other DRG feedback thread, SE seems to value the feedback of people who actively despise any given job over the dedicated players who main that job. They're chasing this dragon (no pun intended) of appeasing a group of people who dislike anything that isn't just rolling their face on their keyboard, and if they have to ruin the job for everyone who has mained it for years they apparently have no problem with that at all.

In a game with over twenty jobs, why is it such a bad thing that one has a busy burst phase or dragon eyes to manage? If someone doesn't like that they have plenty of other less busy jobs to choose from. Why ruin it for everyone that liked it the way it was? :confused:

Made an account JUST to protest these changes. Taking away Nastronds over Life Surge because of button bloat is such a terrible move. Please revert this, idc if I deal slightlyless damage. The job fantasy is being ruined with more and more buttons being taken away.

Removes BOTD effect
Removes DS
Removes both charges of SS
Makes GSK a 60s
Removes 2 charges of NAS
Makes winged glide not a jump
Makes RotD not a jump
Makes SC not a jump
Keeps MD
Keep LS

Absolute cinema SE. Wonder how you'll strip away DRGs identity next time.

This is an insane change. I can't believe they even humored the idea of this. There's no way they thought this was an actually good change right? This should be reverted as soon as possible. Being busy is the point.

In case my sarcasm wasn't detected in my earlier post. Removing the extra Nastrond uses is super lame. Get rid of Life Surge if you want to declutter DRG's burst. Three Nastronds was super cool. You made DRG less cool. Please reconsider these changes.

I just can't understand why they keep removing all skill expression from this game, jobs keep getting boring with the excuses that it'll be easier and less busy. There are many always of doing that keeping the good and unique parts of each job.

Dragoon is getting the same treatment as summoner, slowly turning into a boring job just to be easier for people, but why dont u guys just give a tutorial for each job instead of just turning all into the same thing? Its really frustrating seeing my favorite job being reduced to this. We just lost all the fun things we had: nastronds, life of the dragon, dragon sight...

For me shadowbringers were the best time for dragoon and its just sad that the job will never get back to what it were.

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Originally Posted by Imbrium

If they wanted to get rid of something for button bloat, Mirage dive was right there. Why not cut that and leave Nastrond alone?

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And even then, Dragoon has lots of things they can fold into more autocombos if they want to reduce button bloat in general!

Like, if they're gonna simplify things, at least have good taste. Reducing the number of Nastrond uses is not good taste.

The devs clearly care about catering to the players that have a desire to chase challenges, see: ultimates. But I don't understand why the jobs have to suffer at the cost of difficult encounter design, they're not mutually exclusive. We want challenging encounters AND engaging rotation in job design, rather than all the jobs in a role feeling the same except for the flavour and animations. DRG is following the same path as SMN is, albeit slower. We're losing all the complexity and engagement the job once had, we lost a positional, we lost the positional granting Raiden Thrust, Eye management (and double life windows), losing Dragon Sight, losing Spineshatter Dive, 2 minute CD meta changing Geirskogul and Battle Litany, and now 2 less Nastronds. We gained another button to push on Dragonfire Dive (can't remember name sorry), Starcross, and? that's it. The job has less interaction that it did in Shadowbringers. Expansions and updates shouldn't be removing this much, at most it should be leaving an equivalent amount to play with. Please stop removing everything from jobs and homogenizing them. Please.

edit: they added wyrmwind thrust, which is a good change, another gauge to manage (not in replacement of eyes for old BotD but in addition) that had some nuance in not pressing it straight away and delaying it as long as possible sometimes to fit two into one burst window rather than just one.

Hey yall i started this game on dragoon back at the start of stormblood. I remember heavy thrust before they moved it to reaper under the guise of mark of death. I remember actually managing my job gauge, macroing dragon sight and getting as many nastronds off as i could in a window. that being said while i miss these things I feel like dragoon is about to pop off. In the later half of shadowbringers monk was in the spot dragoon is now. all of its core features gutted and a very basic shell was left behind in preparation for its massive rework. I never liked monk a whole lot but this expansion it feels amazing to me and summoner's rework was awesome in endwalker. My advice is to be very vocal about what you want that rework to look like because sadly I don't think they will revert anything beyond the recent nastrond changes. Kaiten never came back but samurai getting zanshin, tendo iajutsu and merciful eyes combined with third eye really helps fill the void. Think about what you liked in the old kit and keep making new post after post about how you want that twisted into a new kit.

This change was totally unexpected. I held off picking up Dragoon for so long because I was afraid of another Summoner level rework. Since it was cancelled, I've been having so much fun with the job up until now. Why do they have to keep removing things from the game?

Dark Knight also lost its burst this expansion. I WANT to play a busy job, please!

I am not surprised they reduced the number of NAS from LotD. The JP player base has been asking for things like these in their own thread, as well as a reduction of oGCDs to press.

We've also been discussing solutions and giving feedback on DRG in different threads in this subforum, yet what we get is this.

One of DRG's core features is being an oGCD-heavy job. Most of its burst damage comes from oGCDs, which is quite unique compared to the rest of the jobs and particularly the other melee DPS.

I wouldn't be annoyed by the single NAS charge if we had got a better and more engaging filler, or more LotD phases, but instead the filler remains as boring and now the burst will be even simpler. Just imagine bursts at level 70, 80 and 90 as well as 1-minute bursts at 100. It's just terrible.

Either give us more things to play with or revert the NAS change. For instance, if you want to grant us only 3 additional oGCDs in LotD, then return Dragon Sight as a gauge generator that gives us one extra LotD every 2-minutes.

Additionally, reduce the cooldown of Winged Glide to either 30 or 45 seconds. A 60s CD for a gap closer is just a carryover from Spineshatter that was left there.

Mirage Dive's buff duration should also be increased to 20s. Mirage Dive should've also granted one scale per use instead of just increasing its potency. We need to interact more with our remaining gauge element!

Finally, Elusive Jump making Piercing Talon stronger is a boring implementation for DRG uptime. It'd been way more unique if all our weaponskills had 5-6 yalms for the "long weapon" fantasy, or if we were given a tool that made a specific amount of weaponskills have this range for a short period of time/number of attacks.

But please, stop removing core aspects of the job. First the eyes and any gauge management, and now the weaves. The filler is already mind numbing and we went from 50% positional frequency to 30%. It's becoming too boring and simple. We don't want homogenization. It's alright for jobs to be different and it's alright for DRG to keep its high amount of oGCDs.

If the problem is in the amount of weaves and you cannot make big changes before 8.0, then rework Life Surge so that it becomes a weaponskill with charges that can (direct) critical hit and, perhaps, give a scale.

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Originally Posted by didykist

But I don't understand why the jobs have to suffer at the cost of difficult encounter design, they're not mutually exclusive. We want challenging encounters AND engaging rotation in job design, rather than all the jobs in a role feeling the same except for the flavour and animations.

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I've been saying this for years as the jobs get more and more simplified. Your job is the window you view most of the content in the game through. There should be something for everyone.

I like busy jobs with different things to think about. I like having a failure state. I liked how DRG played in EW, where I was having fun no matter what I was doing. If all the jobs are reworked into being completely braindead I am only having fun the small percentage of the time I'm in a very difficult encounter.

Again, in a game with over twenty jobs, why does Dragoon need to get lobotomized when jobs like Reaper and Viper exist? If someone didn't like EW DRG they could just not play it. It's like changing the entire menu at a vegan restaurant just because some guy walked in and complained they weren't serving enough pork.

What an absolute bastardised state DRG is in xD

Been playing since SHB, made an account on the forums after five years because typically I get why they change things. I do not understand this.

I was literally playing right up until patch on DRG. And thinking to myself, I am so happy that my burst phase is this fun and engaging! I was worried about the 7.0 changes but burst was so fun and busy I forgot how stupid winged glide replacing two jumps was for a little while.

But what is the point of ONE nastrond? Just remove it then! We used to be able to do 5 before dawntrail. It feels wrong. Like I'm doing the PvP rotation (and in PvP I HATED only having one already, fantastic). Jump and Dive feel weirdly disconnected from the rotation when they once propelled it, we have a total of three jumps left and our burst is not bursting anymore.

I get that sometimes I'm gonna lose an ogcd or drift on my burst when I'm learning new mechanics. But that's part of the process. Let people get good, it's fun.

Frankly, if they needed to make it less busy, you can have both of my life surges I don't need that heal it's fine, just gimme back my nastrond charges and maybe add in some more jumps for the jump class instead of removing them you cowards.

So now when there's mandatory downtime that forces me to use spear throw, i have to buff it by elusive jumping in the middle of the arena? Like Elusive Jumping before the m3s knockback towers go off just to do less than a third of what viper's range option dpes

Went through the trouble of creating an account here to add my voice to the feedback. I love the way dragoon plays now and desperately hope SE receives enough feedback to make them reconsider the nastrond changes. it's one of the most fun buttons in dragoon's kit to press in my opinion, and removing it over something most dragoon players seem to be ambivalent at best towards (i.e, life surge) seems misguided. I just don't see how this change will do anything but make the job less fun for the people who already enjoy it. I understand and to a degree even agree with the criticism that the burst window is too busy, but life surge would have been far better to remove - that ability still existing going into dawntrail was one of the biggest issues people had with the job changes, so it seems silly that an actually satisfying ability was removed first.

TL:DR i really don't understand what's been going through the job development and balance team's head over there lately, i've been playing dragoon pretty much since i started playing the game it has always been my main class all the way from the very beginning up to now in dawntrail, i've seen skills come and go, but i've never seen the job lose as much of it's identity as it has now after endwalker dragoon is starting to feel more and more like "just another melee job" what happened to all the cool stuff we could do? and actually embracing the fantasy of being a Dragoon ever since the removal of dragon sight and jumps in exchange for dashes and other ogcd's i've been liking the job less and less and it feels horrible because i love dragoon it's in my character's surname for god's sake and i don't want to see it's identity completely shattered and have it just feel like another generic job to play, please give the dragon knight it's reputation back.

A wise man once said "A game for everyone is a game for no one." I think that applies to something as simple as Job identity as well. Instead of creating Jobs with strong identities that attract different groups of players, every Job now needs to be able to picked up by everyone and as a result they just all become increasingly more bland.

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Originally Posted by Barachim

A wise man once said "A game for everyone is a game for no one." I think that applies to something as simple as Job identity as well. Instead of creating Jobs with strong identities that attract different groups of players, every Job now needs to be able to picked up by everyone and as a result they just all become increasingly more bland.

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I mean that's a race lost so long ago, it feels like its late Stormblood again.

Job identity hasn't been a thing since Heavensward, if we're being honest.

I registered just to voice my disappointment with the new changes. Dragoon has been pretty much my only job since I first started playing in Shadowbringers. I'd been worried about the rework since it was announced for Dawntrail and was relieved that it still felt good to play once it came out. Although the removal of the double positionals felt completely unnecessary, a fun opening burst felt like it was an acceptable trade-off for losing Spineshatter Dive. And now it's being gutted in a .1 patch.

There are a lot of things I'm unhappy with when it comes to the state of the game right now, but leveling jobs and playing Dragoon were my reasons for continuing to play. What little excitement I had for the next patch is pretty much extinguished.

Its just going to make the job more boring to play. As others have said, pressing OGCDS optimally during mechanics, is one of the few difficulties left in this game. The people that failed to press 3 small buttons in time will also fail to press the one big button in time, and for everyone else that actually enjoys their job(been maining it since the my start somewhere in 4.1) it will just feel way less engaging to have less to press. The DT changes were already a MASSIVE QOL update being able to press nastronds whereever i wanted in my opener, and have to say an actually welcome one, since it made a very busy and fun burst more flexible while still being optimal. but this is just sad. please reconsider (on an unrelated note, still sad i lost my tether instead of lance charge or life surge)

edit: -I also get its the same or more potency even, but it is about feeling. Nastrond looks and feels great and was with us for quite some time, seeing it less often sucks.
-ADDITIONALLY it will open us up to more crit variance of singular big abilities instead of spaced out smaller ones. Something i thought they wanted to reduce.
-If anything if they wanted to make the drg experience smoother they could do with actually giving us an aoe skill before we almost finish ARR or finally giving us some party mit.

You can like this comment by user giringo in the JP forums. This person is complaining that they made the job simple and boring.

Square, please reconsider. oGCDs were DRGs thing as well as jumps and you keep taking both away. I was worried about the rework before DT and so happy when the worst fears didn't turn out true.

Guess it's time to go play gunbreaker in the meantime after all while it still has the weaves...

I am not really a forum poster but i have to express my disappointment in theses Nastrond changes.

This is DRG identity, a job that LOVES to be busy weaving oGCDs and taking that busyness away is a terrible move for level cap FUN (i prefer 3 Nastrond stacks of 100 potency that 1 stack of 1000 ngl) and early levels rotation making the job almost braindead and 50% less fun before 80 (rip my UwU prog on DRG)

Since XIV team pointed that 8.0 will deepen job identity this is a huge step backwards and we, actual DRG players, would love for this changes to be reverted.

What is the problem?
The people complain, that the drg is to busy in his burst time.
The only 2 solution would be, to increase the timer. Or, to reduce the usable skills.

They choiced the second one. And for me does it looks ok.
Good, its true that whe has less to use in early lvl with that. But for 90+ is it now enough. Esspecialy, with the potency increase, to cover up the missing ones.
Maybe, they could have reduced it to 2 times, as a middle ground. But for the moment does the change looks ok (its more funny for me, that the spear throwing skill has now a combi with our back jump).

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Originally Posted by Keichi

What is the problem?
The people complain, that the drg is to busy in his burst time.
with the potency increase, to cover up the missing ones.

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Who was the people exactly? I didn't see any DRG mains complaining, a heavy burst window was the only identity this job had left now it just feels like shit to play and adding potency doesn't make up for a job getting lobotomized when it feels bad to play.

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Originally Posted by Ajisaii

Who was the people exactly? I didn't see any DRG mains complaining, a heavy burst window was the only identity this job had left now it just feels like shit to play and adding potency doesn't make up for a job getting lobotomized when it feels bad to play.

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In this very thread are people happy with this change.

Whether you personally agree or disagree with the changes it's important to keep in mind that the playerbase is not uniform.