So nothing open world for like a year? lol

I cannot believe they are making another world of darkness raid. I did this in edens gate umbra savage, plus everyone gets WOD on alliance roulette.

I am in shambles y'all. I resubscribe to level a few more classes and play deep dungeons ; but i might be fine letting my house go for a whole year lol.
The re-using of assets is maybe kinda fun for ultimates but really scraping the barrel for everyone else. I don't know what to hope for in this game anymore ( • ᴖ • ｡)

Well re-using assets is done all the time so that's kinda irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by missTori

who even asked for this?

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A lot of people asked for more midcore content. Whether it will qualify as such remains to be seen. It actually looked so chaotic that it might be really hard, but on the other hand, it's not realistic to make raids with 24 people too difficult because amongst 24 people some of the players will usually not be good and if they are, getting them all together at one time can be hard.

I think people always wanted Alliance raids to be harder. This came to a head in Endwalker when everyone was attacking how easy the last ones got. In my opinion, you can still die in them and it's still normal to see lots of deaths in them, but clearly a lot of the playerbase didn't see it that way so SE perhaps wanted to make a more difficult raid for them.

Then there was the outcry for more Field Operations (and their associated large-scale raids). That being the case, they wanted to make more large-scale content generally.

This extends upon their desire to create large-scale content in Shadowbringers, which was very successful. CLL, DR, DRS, Dalriada and all the CEs were amazing, they were fun, and you saw lots of people doing them and wiping to them and it's almost crazy that they didn't continue that in Endwalker with how populated it felt. So they are just going full on with the large-scale concept now.

Large-scale content has the opportunity to allow anxious players to try out harder content for once. Because in a small party, such as 4 or 8 people, you can be singled out for your mistake, but it's harder to point fingers amongst the chaos of 24+ people (or at least, anxious players may assume this and feel safer).

What I loved about CLL and Dalriada is there was a component in them that 8 "good" players handled and they had to do it successfully or it was a wipe. The less experienced players could just handle the other boss and that worked so well and felt really good.

MMOs rely on building a sense of community in order to retain their players. It's good to have streamlined content that you can easily jump in and out of without prior commitments, but that comes at the cost of making the playerbase feel fragmented.

I think the strength of Exploratory Zone content like Eureka and Bozja isn't just the fact that they're 'multiplayer', but that they recapture that sense of community that you used to see in traditional MMOs. You have a large group of players congregated in a zone interacting and working together to meet their goals in a less structured way. I think that they should have prioritized a large-scale player zone like this for 7.1, and developed it continuously over the course of the expansion.

The 24p Savage raid is an interesting experiment and is likely an attempt to decouple BA/DRS style content from the Exploratory Zone, but I think this should have been a lower priority.

FATEs in certain Dawntrail zones have unironically been kinda good. I can feel that Eureka/Bozja magic seeping into the open world when world boss FATES spawn, and savvy players set out to look for a Forlorn Maiden so they can use the Twist of Fate buff on the boss FATE, increasing the bicolor gem reward. I feel like they really could 'Eureka-ify' the over world by continuing to make adjustments to the FATE system.

What is there in the open world?

AMAZING FATE CONTENT...!!!

and....?

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Originally Posted by Sensui

What is there in the open world?

AMAZING FATE CONTENT...!!!

and....?

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• B ranks (which you kill once a week solo) and daily hunt bills (which you can do for leveling)
• A ranks (which are fought very, very regularly by many players)
• S ranks which you can try to spawn (this is also done very, very regularly by many players)
• gathering (also done very regularly, obviously)
• treasure maps (popular endgame content for FCs and in PF that you see all the time if you fly around)
• achievement FATE bosses
• not quite as social but beast tribes and custom deliveries often draw people back for exp or ranking
• sightseeing logs and sidequests (one-off stuff, but still found in the open world tbh)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

• B ranks (which you kill once a week solo) and daily hunt bills (which you can do for leveling)
• A ranks (which are fought very, very regularly by many players)
• S ranks which you can try to spawn (this is also done very, very regularly by many players)
• gathering (also done very regularly, obviously)
• treasure maps (popular endgame content for FCs and in PF that you see all the time if you fly around)
• achievement FATE bosses
• not quite as social but beast tribes and custom deliveries often draw people back for exp or ranking
• sightseeing logs and sidequests (one-off stuff, but still found in the open world tbh)

---

That is the most nothing list of content stretched across too many dot points I’ve seen in a while

That’s basically hunts, fates and gathering, systems that haven’t been improved or iterated on since literally ARR and things that don’t dynamically change over the course of the expansion. The same 10 fates will be on loop in 7.55 as they are now

Games boring. Nothing to do. Re-downloaded ESO, at least I can just do open world stuff and be entertained to some degree.

It's not even open world when new maps are locked behind the main story quest. Even crafting is locked behind it.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

That is the most nothing list of content stretched across too many dot points I’ve seen in a while

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I get you think the content is nothing, there are people that dismiss it as nothing for sure, but that doesn't mean it is.

There is a whole community around hunts and it's content I spend lots of time doing (with breaks). Lots of people fight them, on a regular basis, leaving bodies everywhere. They have lots of fun mechanics and I enjoy them a lot.

The distinction between B, A and S ranks is because they work very differently. B ranks, casual players go out and fight them each week in the open world. A ranks are fought pretty regularly, usually by hunt trains, every 6 hours or so. S ranks have spawn conditions people go out and attempt regularly and are a whole social rabbit hole in this game with long-term achievements tied to them. Since they all work very differently, they deserve separate bullet points.

And while there is FATE farming as a regular activity that is done for gemstone farming, the achievement FATEs are a bit of a separate attraction and really not quite as much of a pushover in many cases because they bring lots of people together to fight them, as such they again deserve separate bullet points in my opinion.

And Treasure Hunts are separate to hunts, so also deserve their own bullet point.

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systems that haven’t been improved or iterated on since literally ARR

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Not being iterated on as a concept doesn't mean it's not content. I'm not saying it shouldn't be iterated on or can't be though (I'd really like B ranks to work like the hunts in FF16).

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things that don’t dynamically change over the course of the expansion. The same 10 fates will be on loop in 7.55 as they are now

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True. I have thought that they could update it more frequently. But if I ask myself whether I actually get bored of them that quickly, tbh, the answer is no. I get bored of everything in the expansion after about 1.5 to 2 years, so at least their original timeframe for something new worked for me, but they have stretched it out to 2.5 years for the last two expansions to where even expert roulette is the same dungeons for almost a year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I get you think the content is nothing, there are people that dismiss it as nothing for sure, but that doesn't mean it is.

There is a whole community around hunts and it's content I spend lots of time doing (with breaks). Lots of people fight them, on a regular basis, leaving bodies everywhere. They have lots of fun mechanics and I enjoy them a lot.

The distinction between B, A and S ranks is because they work very differently. B ranks, casual players go out and fight them each week in the open world. A ranks are fought pretty regularly, usually by hunt trains, every 6 hours or so. S ranks have spawn conditions people go out and attempt regularly and are a whole social rabbit hole in this game with long-term achievements tied to them. Since they all work very differently, they deserve separate bullet points.

And while there is FATE farming as a regular activity that is done for gemstone farming, the achievement FATEs are a bit of a separate attraction and really not quite as much of a pushover in many cases because they bring lots of people together to fight them, as such they again deserve separate bullet points in my opinion.

And Treasure Hunts are separate to hunts, so also deserve their own bullet point.
Not being iterated on as a concept doesn't mean it's not content. I'm not saying it shouldn't be iterated on or can't be though (I'd really like B ranks to work like the hunts in FF16).
True. I have thought that they could update it more frequently. But if I ask myself whether I actually get bored of them that quickly, tbh, the answer is no. I get bored of everything in the expansion after about 1.5 to 2 years, so at least their original timeframe for something new worked for me, but they have stretched it out to 2.5 years for the last two expansions to where even expert roulette is the same dungeons for almost a year.

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The problem with hunts is not so much that they are nothing it’s that for 99.99% of players the content amounts to nothing. Sure you can point to trying to find s rank spawn conditions or scoping out marks but for 99.9% of players hunts basically amounts to a daily Zerg of the same bosses for tomestones. The spawn conditions system is opaque and never changes so it only needs to be solved once. And the system doesn’t lead itself to independent coordination, it leads itself exactly to “let the discord figure it out and follow”. That works for content with strange entry conditions and a lot of coordination like BA but it just artificially reduces the interaction of hunt design. Plus hints give no useful rewards besides tomestones

Maps don’t even really deserve a mention because it’s almost all done in an instance, finding the map location in the overworld barely counts as part of the content

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Plus hints give no useful rewards besides tomestones

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They do give materia though (indirectly) and are a good way to farm that, especially for pentamelding or making gil. During odd patches they also push the tomestone augments there and a lot of people do farm these (whether for augmenting alt classes or because of not raiding). Alliance Raids are really more efficient for getting the left side pieces while the right side pieces are being farmed from hunts.

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Maps don’t even really deserve a mention because it’s almost all done in an instance, finding the map location in the overworld barely counts as part of the content

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Maybe but they do at least get people to fly out into the map and fight things there. It may not be much since they die quick, but it does force people to actually visit the area, which is one of the complaints people have ("no reason to return"). I'm not saying they couldn't be better or do something else within the open world itself.

It's genuinely sad that hunts have devolved into mindless zergfest because some of the A ranks, and S ranks in Dawntrail have some kinda fun, and actually threatening mechanics.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

It's genuinely sad that hunts have devolved into mindless zergfest because some of the A ranks, and S ranks in Dawntrail have some kinda fun, and actually threatening mechanics.

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I do always feel that way and I agree they have made them even better this expansion. Fortunately they do show through now that activity has slowed down, especially after reset days or at late/early hours. But even then, the last two zones at the bare minimum still manage to destroy lots of people. To me, that's when content is fun, when there's bodies everywhere. They are willing to make mechanics more threatening than they would in dungeons because of the amount of people that can rez. That's the sort of thing that made Field Operations good as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The problem with hunts is not so much that they are nothing it’s that for 99.99% of players the content amounts to nothing. Sure you can point to trying to find s rank spawn conditions or scoping out marks but for 99.9% of players hunts basically amounts to a daily Zerg of the same bosses for tomestones. The spawn conditions system is opaque and never changes so it only needs to be solved once. And the system doesn’t lead itself to independent coordination, it leads itself exactly to “let the discord figure it out and follow”. That works for content with strange entry conditions and a lot of coordination like BA but it just artificially reduces the interaction of hunt design. Plus hints give no useful rewards besides tomestones

Maps don’t even really deserve a mention because it’s almost all done in an instance, finding the map location in the overworld barely counts as part of the content

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You are trying to talk sense to someone who is a huge apologist for SE. There is absolutely no use wasting the time, he will defend this game, its devs, its content and everything so hard that I almost think he believes what he is saying is true and not just a white knight troll for the lulls. There is no critical thinking there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

There is no critical thinking there.

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It's important to be critical of the criticism as well, to make sure it's not missing something. For example, a lot of critics simply don't do content and then pretend it doesn't exist, or just never really tried the content they are ignoring, or don't understand it as well as they think they do. In other cases, people come up with narrow statistics that don't really hold water next to all the other statistics that exist.

Then there are the times a lack of respect/consideration is shown - for example, for the fact developing things takes time, or for the fact SE is at least trying, or in another example, people who want more raid content always used to be like "who cares about story players and non-raiders, make more raids" as if other sections of the playerbase don't exist.

Without someone arguing against the negative posts, it becomes an echo chamber with no scrutiny.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

• B ranks (which you kill once a week solo) and daily hunt bills (which you can do for leveling)
• A ranks (which are fought very, very regularly by many players)
• S ranks which you can try to spawn (this is also done very, very regularly by many players)
• gathering (also done very regularly, obviously)
• treasure maps (popular endgame content for FCs and in PF that you see all the time if you fly around)
• achievement FATE bosses
• not quite as social but beast tribes and custom deliveries often draw people back for exp or ranking
• sightseeing logs and sidequests (one-off stuff, but still found in the open world tbh)

---

Not a single one of these activities offer gear and power progression to capped players.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Not a single one of these activities offer gear and power progression to capped players.

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How about tome capping and augment farming (in odd patches) for alt classes? Also, Hunts (and I believe FATEs now) allows you to get materia which is relevant if you didn't have materia yet for that capped item level gear, which makes for a total of 3 things related to gear and power progression from hunts. For crafters/gatherers, the tribes and custom deliveries help in various ways with leveling and scrips.

Of course, the game doesn't have a means of power progression beyond the max item level and materia melding, but that's really something to suggest for the game generally. Those activities are offering what they can within the confines of what the game offers. The "gear and power progression" in this game is in and of itself just getting max level, max item level and materia as it stands so that's all these things can really do unless they implement Eureka, Bozja or Deep Dungeon-like systems into the rest of the game.

I think it's pretty obvious what they include for the expansion releases needs to change.

I think it was usually okay-ish in the past when we had 3 months or so before the x.1 patch, but with it being so long for a new patch now there's basically nothing to do. We're also seemingly not getting a ton this next patch either.

Something needs to change because sticking to the same general pattern they have for over a decade isn't working anymore with all the cuts and schedule changes they've made to the content we do get.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

• B ranks (which you kill once a week solo) and daily hunt bills (which you can do for leveling)
• A ranks (which are fought very, very regularly by many players)
• S ranks which you can try to spawn (this is also done very, very regularly by many players)
• gathering (also done very regularly, obviously)
• treasure maps (popular endgame content for FCs and in PF that you see all the time if you fly around)
• achievement FATE bosses
• not quite as social but beast tribes and custom deliveries often draw people back for exp or ranking
• sightseeing logs and sidequests (one-off stuff, but still found in the open world tbh)

---

I'll reply to this list with a post I saw on the Japanese side that I personally agree with.
For context this person was replying to a thread about YoshiP's comments on creating time consuming content for FFXIV.

"Please create content that is so interesting that you will forget about time, not content that takes a long time."

It's something I couldn't agree more with, your list though on the other hand is simply time consuming content that is not interesting anymore and after 10 years the formula is stale, repetitive and boring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They do give materia though (indirectly) and are a good way to farm that, especially for pentamelding or making gil. During odd patches they also push the tomestone augments there and a lot of people do farm these (whether for augmenting alt classes or because of not raiding). Alliance Raids are really more efficient for getting the left side pieces while the right side pieces are being farmed from hunts.
Maybe but they do at least get people to fly out into the map and fight things there. It may not be much since they die quick, but it does force people to actually visit the area, which is one of the complaints people have ("no reason to return"). I'm not saying they couldn't be better or do something else within the open world itself.

---

Are you SE intern that did donut earring?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mallleable

FATEs in certain Dawntrail zones have unironically been kinda good. I can feel that Eureka/Bozja magic seeping into the open world when world boss FATES spawn, and savvy players set out to look for a Forlorn Maiden so they can use the Twist of Fate buff on the boss FATE, increasing the bicolor gem reward. I feel like they really could 'Eureka-ify' the over world by continuing to make adjustments to the FATE system.

---

Lol you got to be kidding right?
Fates in Dawntrail are good when you farm them solo on an empty instance as a warrior coz pulling 10 mobs will auto complete it. Other than that its just
more damage sponges. The more people there are, the more annoying it gets because who the fuck likes to dodge 1 circle (you dont even have to btw because they literally
do no damage) for a period of 6 minutes while repeatedly pressing auto rotation, thats got the be the most boring fight design in any game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by missTori

I cannot believe they are making another world of darkness raid. I did this in edens gate umbra savage, plus everyone gets WOD on alliance roulette.

I am in shambles y'all. I resubscribe to level a few more classes and play deep dungeons ; but i might be fine letting my house go for a whole year lol.
The re-using of assets is maybe kinda fun for ultimates but really scraping the barrel for everyone else. I don't know what to hope for in this game anymore ( • ᴖ • ｡)

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Lol and nothing of value was missed. XD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LilaIronman

Lol you got to be kidding right?
Fates in Dawntrail are good when you farm them solo on an empty instance as a warrior coz pulling 10 mobs will auto complete it. Other than that its just
more damage sponges. The more people there are, the more annoying it gets because who the fuck likes to dodge 1 circle (you dont even have to btw because they literally
do no damage) for a period of 6 minutes while repeatedly pressing auto rotation, thats got the be the most boring fight design in any game.

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Let me spell it out again because I think you, and the people liking this poste missed the point of my post so I will elaborate.

FATEs in certain Dawntrail zones have unironically been kinda good. In two Dawntrail zones, Shaaloani, and Living Memory, there is a possibility to spawn a world boss FATE which is balanced to be like an alliance raid in the overworld. These specific FATEs reward, tokens that can be traded in for goodies like capybara mount, and the cursed Squirrel suit, 100 bicolor gems, and a ton of experience. When 7.0 launched, they made made a change to another FATE system, the Forlorn Maiden. The Forlorn Maiden or The Forlorn are additional enemies that have a chance to spawn in almost any FATE in zones Stormblood and above as the fate is being completed. When a Forlorn Maiden is defeated, the players who participated the FATE get a buff called Twist of Fate which buffs the experience, and now with Dawntrail, the amount of bicolor gems you get from the next fate is also boosted. The Forlorn Maiden gives a 50% boost to FATE rewards, and The Forlorn gives a 4x boost.

So what has been happening is that when a world boss FATE spawns in like in Shaaloani or Living Memory, there will be groups of players who will go out and complete the smaller FATEs in the zone in hopes of spawning a Forlorn Maiden instead of just waiting around for the world boss to be pulled. When a Forlorn Maiden is found, the players will try hold off on completing the FATE, and the location of the Maiden FATE is relayed in shout chat so that other players can get credit, and get the Twist of Fate buff so they can use the buff on the world boss, and get a significant boost in experience, and gems. This bit of emergent gameplay also applies to older zones that have world boss FATEs for a total of six zones across three expansions.

It's just a neat little moment of comradery. This loop reminds me of the Elementals that can spawn in Eureka zones. And yes, Eureka, Bozja, and Shade's are just FATE boxes, but that's not bad. So if they keep making adjustments to FATEs that encourage cooperation between players, and not just mindlessly zerg down FATEs alone, they could turn every zone into like a Eureka-like experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Let me spell it out again because I think you, and the people liking this poste missed the point of my post so I will elaborate.

FATEs in certain Dawntrail zones have unironically been kinda good. In two Dawntrail zones, Shaaloani, and Living Memory, there is a possibility to spawn a world boss FATE which is balanced to be like an alliance raid in the overworld. These specific FATEs reward, tokens that can be traded in for goodies like capybara mount, and the cursed Squirrel suit, 100 bicolor gems, and a ton of experience. When 7.0 launched, they made made a change to another FATE system, the Forlorn Maiden. The Forlorn Maiden or The Forlorn are additional enemies that have a chance to spawn in almost any FATE in zones Stormblood and above as the fate is being completed. When a Forlorn Maiden is defeated, the players who participated the FATE get a buff called Twist of Fate which buffs the experience, and now with Dawntrail, the amount of bicolor gems you get from the next fate is also boosted. The Forlorn Maiden gives a 50% boost to FATE rewards, and The Forlorn gives a 4x boost.

So what has been happening is that when a world boss FATE spawns in like in Shaaloani or Living Memory, there will be groups of players who will go out and complete the smaller FATEs in the zone in hopes of spawning a Forlorn Maiden instead of just waiting around for the world boss to be pulled. When a Forlorn Maiden is found, the players will try hold off on completing the FATE, and the location of the Maiden FATE is relayed in shout chat so that other players can get credit, and get the Twist of Fate buff so they can use the buff on the world boss, and get a significant boost in experience, and gems. This bit of emergent gameplay also applies to older zones that have world boss FATEs for a total of six zones across three expansions.

It's just a neat little moment of comradery. This loop reminds me of the Elementals that can spawn in Eureka zones. And yes, Eureka, Bozja, and Shade's are just FATE boxes, but that's not bad. So if they keep making adjustments to FATEs that encourage cooperation between players, and not just mindlessly zerg down FATEs alone, they could turn every zone into like a Eureka-like experience.

---

Sounds like something like good ol Formidable.. which is just another damage sponge with no substance to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LilaIronman

Sounds like something like good ol Formidable.. which is just another damage sponge with no substance to it.

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And that is a parameter to adjust, making the fates actually kinda fun so they they can go from 'kinda good' to 'actually good' or 'great' even.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mallleable

And that is a parameter to adjust, making the fates actually kinda fun so they they can go from 'kinda good' to 'actually good' or 'great' even.

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I agree but i dont think it will ever happen
Im playing GW2 and Fates (Meta how its called there) Is wayyy more engaging

oh god they should just make Eureka/Bozja content right now. No joke, I would be happy to grind there and meme on fights. Getting my relic while with it. SHB was the best relic series due to his choices of grind to get the relic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I get you think the content is nothing, there are people that dismiss it as nothing for sure, but that doesn't mean it is.

There is a whole community around hunts and it's content I spend lots of time doing (with breaks). Lots of people fight them, on a regular basis, leaving bodies everywhere. They have lots of fun mechanics and I enjoy them a lot.

The distinction between B, A and S ranks is because they work very differently. B ranks, casual players go out and fight them each week in the open world. A ranks are fought pretty regularly, usually by hunt trains, every 6 hours or so. S ranks have spawn conditions people go out and attempt regularly and are a whole social rabbit hole in this game with long-term achievements tied to them. Since they all work very differently, they deserve separate bullet points.

And while there is FATE farming as a regular activity that is done for gemstone farming, the achievement FATEs are a bit of a separate attraction and really not quite as much of a pushover in many cases because they bring lots of people together to fight them, as such they again deserve separate bullet points in my opinion.

And Treasure Hunts are separate to hunts, so also deserve their own bullet point.
Not being iterated on as a concept doesn't mean it's not content. I'm not saying it shouldn't be iterated on or can't be though (I'd really like B ranks to work like the hunts in FF16).
True. I have thought that they could update it more frequently. But if I ask myself whether I actually get bored of them that quickly, tbh, the answer is no. I get bored of everything in the expansion after about 1.5 to 2 years, so at least their original timeframe for something new worked for me, but they have stretched it out to 2.5 years for the last two expansions to where even expert roulette is the same dungeons for almost a year.

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I'm starting to think that this is Yoshi P himself... lol Hi Yoshida!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sinstrel

I'm starting to think that this is Yoshi P himself... lol Hi Yoshida!

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Can't be. Yoshida doesn't care about hunts that much if at all.

The lack of gear and legitimate variations and options make the whole experience really dull.

Oh... So we dump my current gear for the higher ilvl stuff and pick the one of two options which has most crit, dump and repeat, forever and ever.. real nice. Glad everyone can have the same gear and build.

Also hunts are super boring... follow hunt train.. Oh, the engagement. Such fantasy. Also.. the idea that they "own" the hunts and that people get flamed and black listed because they want to fight an A rank with a party or something is ridiculous. Nope, you can only do Hunts on "OUR" schedule! OK guess I'll never do hunts either. Great game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

• B ranks (which you kill once a week solo) and daily hunt bills (which you can do for leveling)
• A ranks (which are fought very, very regularly by many players)
• S ranks which you can try to spawn (this is also done very, very regularly by many players)
• gathering (also done very regularly, obviously)
• treasure maps (popular endgame content for FCs and in PF that you see all the time if you fly around)
• achievement FATE bosses
• not quite as social but beast tribes and custom deliveries often draw people back for exp or ranking
• sightseeing logs and sidequests (one-off stuff, but still found in the open world tbh)

---

Not really looking for social things, just content to collect or work on..

Gathering got completed within 1 week of expac release. After that, whacking a rock for some spring water is a chore...

I guess I can craft outside my house, so that's open world content. But I threw away all that crafted gear after a week and replaced it all already.

Sightseeing mostly got done while doing MSQ. Once it's done, never have I gone back to one of those nodes to ponder life's many mysteries while enveloped in its majestic radiance.

I can read venue spam and engage in shout chat battles. That's open world too.

I can do side quests once. All right. Done.

Treasure Maps. I can just duo those. Rewards suck, oh and portals are instanced..

Hunts. As mentioned, you're only allowed to do those on someone else's schedule lest you make yourself a pariah.