DT treasure map rates set too low, cant recruit runners.

Every week since the new DT maps dropped i have run a group for my FC.
The first week we had amazing luck, loads of portals with decent progress towards room 5, even 1 success.

Every week since the rate of portals appearing has plummeted, and what portals do appear seldom get past rooms 1 or 2. Additionally items with rolls just don't appear.

Over the weeks since the first i have watched map group signups drop off from 20+ signups down too..... 3.
I asked former map regs why they are not signing up for groups and the replies were consistent, they are too demoralizing to run, no loot, no gil, no portals, no success.
I had the same issue trying to PF map groups on OCE with the general consensus when i asked publicly in chat as to why people don't run them, the luck is too bad, the rates too low, they dont offer any rewards for the effort.

SE, Did you forget activity's are supposed to be fun? Constant bad luck is not fun.
I know you want to 'remove' gil from the economy, but destroying Map RNG is not the way to do it, people need incentive to yaknow, run content.
So please, for once lately, fix the issue, don't put it off till next patch, just do something, hell even adding bad luck prevention would work.
Dont leave the content i love as dead, fix the success rates!
Make these maps worth running, and do it BEFORE the next map dungeons release please.

We only got like 5 portals out of 40 maps in our most recent run, one of my FC members counted. Now they can't be bothered to do anymore since it's just kind of a waste of our time. As you said even when we got into the treasure room we got kicked out in room 2. We've seen the finale of the dungeon exactly once since the maps came out. It's a real bummer. I don't expect hand outs but give me more portals, please, it hurts!

I'm glad you made this post! I was thinking the same thing the other night when I ran maps with my static pals FC (first time I've done them this expansion) and I thought it felt like we were getting way less portals than I had remembered in EW, but wondered if I was just misremembering because it had been a while since I last did them.

Has anyone who's been around for the patch the portals get added before speak to if this is normal and the portals increase as time goes, or if this unusual? It honestly doesn't feel worth the effort and storage currently and it's a bummer because it's one of my favorite "casual" things to do when I'm done raiding.

My understanding is the first week of Maps is always amazing to get people hooked back in, then they significantly nerf success rates so the community doesn't get flooded with gil since that seems to be a focus for SE since mod EW. (Even though the gil sources they nerfed are not the issue but the few people with loads of it.... just like real life).
This time around it feels like they were too heavy handed with the nerf, i have had better success rates with Stormbloods Thiefs maps, and i have only finished those twice out of hundreds of maps and passed room 1 7 or so times. XD

Serious question, is it also a possible factor that the RNG algorithm in FFXIV is.. at least by reputation, quite bad at generating series of independent results, with both losing streaks and winning streaks too often appearing in clusters over time?

If you are getting a 'no portal' result, you would to be moving through your locations rapidly because you move right on to the next one. Whereas if you do get a portal, it is going to take time to clear, during which a time period in which 'good result numbers' were experiencing a cluster might be over by the time you get to your next map. So if these supposed clustered 'rng result streaks' are real, it would make sense you would be opening more maps during a streak of bad rng numbers than during a streak of good rng numbers, right? And such an effect would bring the experienced rate of success always below the theoretical average rate of success.

The portal opening rate seemed fine when I did maps with some friends, but we only did like 50 total so it's a small sample size.

It's not just level 100 maps. Level 80+ maps have the same issues. My FC group was in Shadowbringers for a while, so they ran level 70 maps. The rng was honestly pretty good. They recently all made it to Endwalker, and we started doing level 80 maps. Barely any portals, and when we do get them, we get kicked out rather fast. Clearly, something is wrong. I'm sure it's to combat bots, but I can't see us running anymore with this bad rng. It's been two weeks of us running level 80s, and it's just misrable.

Seems like the only thing going on is that you are burning yourself out on this kind of content, and that you need to take a break from it.

There is no evil RNG manipulation master plan. There is only people getting good and bad luck. For example, unlike you, i did never get an "amazing" RNG in the beginning of the new maps, and i sure don't get a better luck with the thief maps.

People are complaining that there is nothing to grind and that there is no long term content in the game. And when they get that, they ask for it to get nerfed so they can be done with their 20 achievement clears in two weeks. So that they can complain again that there is nothing to grind and nothing to do ?

Even if i don't get to the final room, i still get a lot of gils from running the maps, and that's not really compatible with another supposed evil master plan to limit how rich we become. If it isn't the case for you, maybe it is because you are too slow to run the maps. The speed you are going on is an important factor. Of course you are not going to get the same amount of gils from a speed run "FFA bring 3 maps each" 8 players group, than from a chill run with your FC members where you are going to take a lot of time joking and talking between you, and waste even more time remembering whose map it is because it is owner need and others greed. When i am going in the second type of group, i sure don't expect the same gains than from the first.

The gem to get the mount is still really worth it with its 3 millions price on the market board (at least on Light). If the RNG gets better like you are asking for, its price is going to get way down, and then people are gonna complain that there is really only trash drops to get.

Asking to make these maps worth running before the next map dungeons release would have make sense when the two kinds of maps (dungeons and wheels) were still on the same kind of maps. If you were then late on maps completion, you would indeed get and additional layer of RNG added to the entry portal, making things more difficult. But it doesn't make any sense to ask for that since dungons and wheels are now splitted on two different kind of maps. The future wheels will very obviously gonna be put on exclusive living memory only maps, like we did get for the elpis ones.

I might have forgotten one point or two, like recruiting members being heavily dependant on what time of the day you do it (during meals usually bring me bad results), but in short there is so many things wrong with what you are saying that it is obvious that you have more of a beginning of burn out problem than anything else. Just take a break from this activity and do some maps again when you will feel like it. Don't end up like these people i did see quitting the game because they did force themselves way too much on a kind of content they were not enjoying anymore.

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Originally Posted by Eyrilona

Serious question, is it also a possible factor that the RNG algorithm in FFXIV is.. at least by reputation, quite bad at generating series of independent results, with both losing streaks and winning streaks too often appearing in clusters over time?

If you are getting a 'no portal' result, you would to be moving through your locations rapidly because you move right on to the next one. Whereas if you do get a portal, it is going to take time to clear, during which a time period in which 'good result numbers' were experiencing a cluster might be over by the time you get to your next map. So if these supposed clustered 'rng result streaks' are real, it would make sense you would be opening more maps during a streak of bad rng numbers than during a streak of good rng numbers, right? And such an effect would bring the experienced rate of success always below the theoretical average rate of success.

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And by the time you clear a dungeon, you could also get the other kind of supposed cluster streak you are trying to get or avoid. Or if you are in a supposed bad streak, the next try could also be bad, or suddenly switching to the begining of a good one. Stop trying to find logical explanations to what is only good or bad luck, and just spam more maps XD

Mao sad. Maps is one of things Mao likes doing in FFXIV. FC whats Mao belong to started doings level 100 maps few weeks ago but then stopped. Mao seems to recall not good success in terms of completion and pretty blah loots. Mao thinkings Mao FC mates just lost interest. Is seem likes players nots allowed to has funs in FFXIV.

I've had map parties where we barely got any portals all day, but most of them have portals all the time (at least in EW).

I honestly ignored maps until EW as well, because I found them boring for these exact reasons. Just a single map party would burn me out.

It really works better if you stop thinking about the maps themselves and focus on the social interaction with your party, and the maps as just a background thing.

They do add rewards to them over time.

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Originally Posted by SeriousPan

We only got like 5 portals out of 40 maps in our most recent run, one of my FC members counted. Now they can't be bothered to do anymore since it's just kind of a waste of our time. As you said even when we got into the treasure room we got kicked out in room 2. We've seen the finale of the dungeon exactly once since the maps came out. It's a real bummer. I don't expect hand outs but give me more portals, please, it hurts!

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Some people might disagree, but I think maps should essentially be handouts. This game desperately, desperately needs rewarding content that isn't sitting in town queuing for stuff. Make every map give a portal, and make every portal dungeon go at least to room three for free. Get people out into the world doing stuff, please.

I agree, the actual zones have no exploration value at all outside of the msq and treasure hunts could be a good vehicle to actually have some meaningful gameplay interactions with the environment. I feel more "connected" to the world when I'm gathering than when I play the main post-MSQ content.

Perhaps the treasure hunt itself could be a bit more engaging and longer (in a fun way, not in a "this is a tedious chore" way) but you'd be guaranteed a portal and a certain number of rooms like suggested above.

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

And by the time you clear a dungeon, you could also get the other kind of supposed cluster streak you are trying to get or avoid. Or if you are in a supposed bad streak, the next try could also be bad, or suddenly switching to the begining of a good one. Stop trying to find logical explanations to what is only good or bad luck, and just spam more maps XD

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From the tone I have the odd feeling that you meant to dismiss my comment, but then what you said actually backs me up, so.. yay? xD

I think the issue is the rewards in the map.
Currently the glamour mat in there is extremely cheap on the market board. Most other drops aren't very expensive either, and while the mount is really nice, that's really the only big ticket item currently.
I have the 20 wins for the new map already, but I got lucky week one because everyone was running them. Now I barely see any PFs. I know they will add more rewards in later patches, but I really enjoy maps and I would like to see more reasons to run them. Heck, add rewards in old maps.

This is very interesting because it doesn't seem to be just treasure maps. My wife and I have both been leveling our trusts slowly since expac launch and neither of us have seen a single minion drop. Cards are also dropping very slowly for both of us. In previous expansions you'd get through the occasional round of leveling them through a specific dungeon without a minion but it's never been this bad. Maybe we just have bad luck or maybe the loot rates in DT are just this abyssmal. Can others please weigh in on dungeon loot? I'm very curious.

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Originally Posted by TemporalFruitsAndVeggies

This game desperately, desperately needs rewarding content that isn't sitting in town queuing for stuff. Make every map give a portal, and make every portal dungeon go at least to room three for free. Get people out into the world doing stuff, please.

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All I can say, is when spawning S ranks over the last 6 years (which involve traveling to different areas of the map in many cases), I frequently see map parties around the map. It's a popular social content, especially for FCs, despite the RNG.

There could be less RNG but some may be good because of how the RNG sparks conversation, which helps with making it a social content. If you compare this to a dungeon with no RNG, since there isn't any RNG everyone just goes through it confidently, not even bothering to talk.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

I think the issue is the rewards in the map.
Currently the glamour mat in there is extremely cheap on the market board. Most other drops aren't very expensive either, and while the mount is really nice, that's really the only big ticket item currently.
I have the 20 wins for the new map already, but I got lucky week one because everyone was running them. Now I barely see any PFs. I know they will add more rewards in later patches, but I really enjoy maps and I would like to see more reasons to run them. Heck, add rewards in old maps.

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heck yeah, add portals to the ARR maps too!

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Originally Posted by Erin1491

This is very interesting because it doesn't seem to be just treasure maps. My wife and I have both been leveling our trusts slowly since expac launch and neither of us have seen a single minion drop. Cards are also dropping very slowly for both of us. In previous expansions you'd get through the occasional round of leveling them through a specific dungeon without a minion but it's never been this bad. Maybe we just have bad luck or maybe the loot rates in DT are just this abyssmal. Can others please weigh in on dungeon loot? I'm very curious.

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It does seem a lot slower this time around… I usually have all the TT cards from the trials and dungeons before I go around playing the NPCs, but I’m still missing a few. Orc rolls and minions from dungeons seem to be a lot harder to come by, but some of them seem to be cheap on the mb, so someone is getting them!

Maps… I haven’t done many of the 100 maps yet. I still have never seen the silver stage from EW’s Elpis maps, and I’ve probably done hundreds of those! Had to buy the one minion, can’t afford the other one because it’s way too expensive!

the portal rates etc are just normal, same as any other map.
They could have the mount item always drop in the final room tho, I've only seen it once in multiple clears

Yeah, the sad part is it's pretty hard to get to the end of a map, and then most of the time you just get rewarded with one of the things that can drop from any of the chests before that. It's rough. I do maps every week with my friends, but it's not been as rewarding as it was in EW, for sure.

I think people were just spoiled from the guaranteed portal ones in mog events.

I'm seeing about the same rates of portals and final rooms as in Endwalker. Which isn't to say I think the rates are good, just trying to point out that it's been like this for a while. I think the issue is more that the rewards kinda suck? The people who do maps are happy they don't have to spam Expert so much thanks to maps, but the gil isn't great, the special material gear is ugly as sin and the mount token drops are incredibly low. They aren't even guaranteed in the final room, either.

It sucked getting to the last floor with my FC and being all excited we cleared one of the new maps, only to open the chest and get...another of the same crafting item we got a few floors back. Nothing exciting. Nothing special or different for managing to clear the RNG hurdle just to get to the last level. That was such a disappointment for us.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

I think people were just spoiled from the guaranteed portal ones in mog events.

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I'm with you on that.

Just going to say I have never found maps an enjoyable experience due to the layered RNG and relative hassle of organization.

Now, the idea of randomized treasure hiding in the world is neat and I 10000% wish they would expand upon that concept a more interesting and (solo friendly) engaging way, but all the current system is is basically XI's BCNMs, but somehow worse. And those were already a pretty low bar.

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Originally Posted by Saidosha

relative hassle of organization.

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It's never really been hard to setup a PF for it.

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(solo friendly) engaging way

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There are solo maps, but even the 8-person maps were soloable in EW ('cause Warrior and PLD) but obviously you want to be max item level before trying that so waiting for the item level cap to grow can help.

As with anything PF, making the lobby may be easy, but getting it filled is the wildcard. The MMO experience can wildly vary when you don't play at peak times, and for some, those are the only times they can. Really, the whole "Just make your own party!" push (for any content) gets stale with the assumption everyone has good luck doing so.

Soloability when satisfying niche conditions is also never a good indicator of game play health. If you're not already a WAR or PLD, spending 50+ hours to level them from scratch late in an expansion cycle is a pretty daunting proposition for someone who just wants to do some maps now and then at their own pace.

The system just needs improved all around and I'm not going to budge on that after repeated attempts to get into it over multiple expansions.

Ive always been pretty reluctant to run maps because it’s never ever felt worth my time.

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

Ive always been pretty reluctant to run maps because it’s never ever felt worth my time.

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Pretty much this. I ran them a few times in PF in Stormblood and didn't see the appeal but joined a new FC in ShB that ran them religiously. Joined them a few nights and only about half of us got any noteworthy loot, and I definitely wasn't one of them because RNGesus has always hated me. With the time I spent doing the maps, I could've just gathered mats and crafted some lignum vitae accessories to have made more gil, even if I did get loot.

tbf, with how good BLU is, i have no interest to run treasure map with other people, i rather wait until BLU catch up and do it solo, currently i did alot of 80 treasure map alone, 90 soon

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Originally Posted by ShariusTC

tbf, with how good BLU is, i have no interest to run treasure map with other people, i rather wait until BLU catch up and do it solo, currently i did alot of 80 treasure map alone, 90 soon

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What abilities do you use when you run 80s solo with BLU?

Sadly looks like my FC runs may be done. As of tonight's, i had 1 signup, myself.

RIP

*Edit* Isnt Blue mage done now? Like it will never get a new level cap or skills since they are switching to the next limited job?

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

What abilities do you use when you run 80s solo with BLU?

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this is my setup (this setup to kill overworld monster)

make a macro to swap "dimensional shift, choco meteor, ultravibration, ram voice" out and swap "goblin punch, moon flute, toad oil, off-guard" in once i am enter instance

"toad oil, off-guard" kinda place holder incase future patch give me better spell, both of them not really mandatory for the run, also mimic stance is tank stance

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...440&height=483

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Originally Posted by Sililos

Sadly looks like my FC runs may be done. As of tonight's, i had 1 signup, myself.

RIP

*Edit* Isnt Blue mage done now? Like it will never get a new level cap or skills since they are switching to the next limited job?

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BLU never done, they will keep putting it 10 level behind current patch level, infact they said it will get new update by the end of this xpac, probly 7.4 or 7.5