Mr. Naoki Yoshida, have you forgotten your own "Three Easy Steps to Failure"?

In light of the ongoing criticism of Dawntrail and your recent responses in interviews, let's explore:

1. An unhealthy obsession with graphic quality

Dawntrail is planned as the first major graphic update. However, have you been overly focused on very specific graphics, such as the grass and every polygon on Lalafell faces? It took the first benchmark and players flooding the forums to point out that there is more to the game than just grass and Lalafell. As a result, for the first time, there was a "patch" for a benchmark.

2. A surprising lack of MMORPG knowledge among development team members

Does this also extend to the writing team? Is your current writing team lacking the knowledge and experience needed to create a compelling story within the current MSQ structure/formula? It seems so, especially if you thought that main story quests should have been side quests.

3. The mindset that the solution to every problem could be patched in a future update

Did you approve the Dawntrail story under the pretense that any "weaknesses" in the story would be addressed later following player feedback?

This is just one slide in a presentation written by you, Mr. Yoshida, about the lessons learned after 1.0 and the launch of 2.0. And it’s not just this one slide. There are a few others that seem to reflect forgotten lessons: "Fun comes first; if it isn’t fun, you’re doing it wrong" or "Never back down; always aim to amaze."
How about "Learn to listen and adapt. A complaint is worth twice as much as a compliment. The silent always leave first. If players are complaining, it means they still care."

I work in a certain design profession where we were strongly taught in college to "take criticism for what it’s worth." We receive criticism from the deepest pits of the seven hells to the pinnacle of the heavens.
For example, "You dumb [redacted]! This is the worst color placement in history!"
What worth does this kind of dripping toxic statement have?
Simple: it highlights the effect of color placement.

All points you bring up has been present since ARR, and you were blind to them back then.
So why now? Why is Dawntrail the sticking point to you all.

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Originally Posted by Audson

We receive criticism from the deepest pits of the seven hells to the pinnacle of the heavens.

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Just wanna say congrats on making a sentence clunkier than anything in FFXIV right now.

It's hardly an unhealthy obsession with graphic quality. It's quite healthy for the game to be getting an upgrade to graphics after 10 years. And it has happened to other aspects than what you said, such as all faces especially Elezen and Roagadyn, clothes, shaders, lighting, weather and system (such as better AA and dynamic resolution).

Most of their team (talking hundreds here) play the game. And many of them play other games, including Yoshi-P, and you can see the inspiration from those games in the content. Like how Solution Nine is basically cyberpunk and they even admitted it when revealing it. Given many WoW developers have played FFXIV even by Yoshi-P's account, it would surely stand to reason that the reverse is true.

They never tend to patch the story, even if people didn't like something. The only real exception is when they revamped ARR and older dungeons and this was after years and years of everyone asking for it to the point that it was "obviously needed".

As for fun, that is subjective and down to opinion. Obviously it is fun in his opinion. And he aims to amaze in the sense he is always looking for a way to create a "high-fantasy" story. An ishgardian knight of the round in the clouds fighting the dragons? A war to liberate nations and dethrone the ruler? Visiting a faerie kingdom and saving a world engulfed in light? Defeating the elder primals, stopping the final days, meeting the ancients in the past and traveling to the edge of the universe? Finding the city of gold, long rumored and dreamed of by giants, and ending up engulfed in part of another world that underwent turmoil, to stop the Queen of Alexandria from abusing souls?

I don't know what "overly focused on graphics" means but the game looks great if that's what you mean.

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Originally Posted by Audson

In light of the ongoing criticism of Dawntrail and your recent responses in interviews, let's explore:

1. An unhealthy obsession with graphic quality

Dawntrail is planned as the first major graphic update. However, have you been overly focused on very specific graphics, such as the grass and every polygon on Lalafell faces? It took the first benchmark and players flooding the forums to point out that there is more to the game than just grass and Lalafell. As a result, for the first time, there was a "patch" for a benchmark.

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Wha? There was no "unhealthy obsession" with graphics quality. The game's been out ten years, they clearly wanted to spruce it up a bit so it didn't look as dated, which I think most people would agree is a good call. Now, the issue with faces is a mess, but that too is not an "unhealthy obsession" either, it was a mistaken stylistic direction people didn't ask for. And the benchmark patch was their attempt to fix mistakes based off player feedback, not obsession. I know you want to strengthen your case by forcibly shoving Dawntrail into each of these categories, but doing so with number 1 is pretty disingenuous.

I love how they do one graphics upgrade in 11 years and suddenly there's somehow an unhealthy obsession with graphic quality.

Time passes, everything ages, FFXIV was looking old, and it's a game they want to remain developing for another decade which means it has to be competitive against newer, possibly more innovative games in the future competing to capture the same (and new) audiences that this game will also need to attract in order to continue getting the same degree of development we players have enjoyed for the past 11 years.

Regarding point #2 "A surprising lack of MMORPG knowledge among development team members"

XI and then XIV both pretty much defined the modern genre of narrative MMO, so much so that WoW now borrows from the XIV method of blending a lot of in game cutscenes as part of the narrative instead of burying the story in text boxes bookended with pre-rendered cutscenes.

Dawntrail's story failure is not so much MMO storytelling failure..... but more JRPG storytelling in general.


This Hero's Journey kind of sucked.

Yeah, I am sorry but every single point you've raised has pretty much been universal since ARR.


Some of these points just seem shoehorned in. e.g., poor story-telling doesn't necessarily equate to poor MMORPG knowledge, otherwise the genre itself is failing, more than what it already is. Poor story telling is poor story telling. That's all it is. It isn't anything else.

Now if you wanted to argue the game trades of QoL for basic RPG mechanics then I would be inclined to agree to a certain extent. But that isn't the point being raised here.

Poor MMORPG understanding to me would be poor understanding and facilitation of social dynamics and groups (grouped content), in addition to poorly managed progression systems, or a non-pragmatic expectation that the game should be developed for solo-play. - All of these points the game has done fairly poorly since it's inception. Of all things raised you decided to go with poor story telling lol.

Point 3., is bizarre, and has been going on for a millennia. - That said, if anything, I would argue the problems with the story were largely by design.

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Originally Posted by Audson

...However, have you been overly focused on very specific graphics, such as the grass and every polygon on Lalafell faces? It took the first benchmark and players flooding the forums to point out that there is more to the game than just grass and Lalafell...

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I just have to nitpick this statement because Lalafells in the first benchmark were uncanny demons as soon as they opened their mouth.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Dawntrail is my most disliked of all expansions, and if this is the direction the game is going in regards to the writing and content - it will fail. We've seen it happen so many times before, so much that Yoshi even has this formula to predict it. Player numbers high or low currently doesn't matter - what matters is the staying power of the expansion to draw people back in with seasonal events and patches. I can only speak for myself, I couldn't care less. Even as a XI player that squealed when I saw Vana'diel's raid announcement at the fanfest (which was such a disappointment in and of itself), I don't care.

The writing team has showed they couldn't care less about my character, backseat or not - 2.0 did a better job handling the WoL before they were the WoL as a backseat character, as did Stormblood and Heavensward and every other expansion that focused on other cast members. The content isn't there, it's constantly being pushed off in patches and next expansion. Lastly, Yoshi isn't playing this game anymore - I can't believe he is with the comments he's making. Even those that I've seen somehow enjoyed this slop of a story recognizes the blaring issues that are brought up - they just focus on their enjoyment than the negatives.

I hate seeing this. I'm so invested in XIV. I've white knighted this game so hard for over a decade. No more. If Yoshi doesn't course correct and get the writing team to actually handle the WoL properly, fix these stupid plot holes in the main scenario and not beast tribes / side quests (looking at you Endwalker beast tribes...), and actually implement what fans are asking for instead of silly ideas from the whimsy of the team (Summoner anyone?) this game will fail.

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Originally Posted by Talamh

All points you bring up has been present since ARR, and you were blind to them back then.
So why now? Why is Dawntrail the sticking point to you all.

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You are out of your mind if you think all 3 of those have been a problem since arr lol

The devs up until EW at least felt like they knew what an MMO was and what people want to get out of it. These days I have no idea what the primary design decisions going into this game are being based off.

As for “everything can be fixed in a future patch” we don’t even get that any more at this point they just ignore problems until 14 stans gaslight themselves into thinking it’s a feature

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Originally Posted by Audson

1. An unhealthy obsession with graphic quality

Dawntrail is planned as the first major graphic update. However, have you been overly focused on very specific graphics, such as the grass and every polygon on Lalafell faces? It took the first benchmark and players flooding the forums to point out that there is more to the game than just grass and Lalafell. As a result, for the first time, there was a "patch" for a benchmark.

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The game looks way too bad, that you could assume, that Yoshi-P is obsessed with graphics. They added some more polygons to the faces and they messed it up. Because either the devs do not know what they are doing or the small indie company is lacking of ressources.


Cheers

The only reason the game has received a lot of criticism now is because there is no good story to shield it and blanket everyones eyes. Criticism leads to change. The cardinal sin aside from the two expansions in a row rushing their story is the lack of any open world content.

Its substandard for an MMO. You have randomly popping fates you cant even hide away, that cut the flow and a little bit of enjoyment of traveling around. The questing is bare bones "walk to A and press B" or "Go to purple circle and kill an enemy"
The maps while pretty are only that. No substance just pretty to look at. They dont feel alive. Settlements STILL have 90% of the houses locked.
More quest types, more living areas, open houses, camps and minigame areas, chocobo minigames, flying minigames. More dynamic quests not "you enter into a cutscene for 1.5 minutes". And stop being stingy on the VA's. Get voice acted npc's already.

1 - the graphical update was wasted on XIV, it was still great before.
FF7 remake is a thing, but it's a complete remake not just a coat of paint.
It should have been FFXI getting an update (graphics on par with 14 and "modern" UI), not 14.

2 - Writing aside, the rpg aspect of the game is getting stream-lined into an action/ddr boring mess for "balance reasons"
The gameplay diversity butchered into a few flavors with different colors of sprinkles.
For DT, most job got one(1) extra m&m as topping.
A while back, we had interesting flavors mixed trough AND a specific topping. Chocolate and Caramel worked great ; Mustard didn't ; Mayo was strange but interesting. These are now removed for artificial coloring.
Bringing back writing, the lack of job quests & lore leave these favors bland because "Writing quests for 20 jobs is too much work". I don't think it's more work than the graphical update, and in 10 years you'll just have a shallow story and outdated graphics.

3 - "Job homogenization" has been a problem since ShB. Thousands of complaints, mostly unacknowledged for 7 years, and we got a "it'll be for 8.0".
Except you lost and kind of trust some of us had for that to works.
We gave feedback for years here, yet they almost always go with their idea and back it with "players feedback" that comes from nowhere.

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Originally Posted by Calysto

Thousands of complaints, mostly unacknowledged for 7 years, and we got a "it'll be for 8.0".

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You know you are in a weird market when them responding to complaints after seven years still actually makes it one of the faster response times among the large MMO companies, no?

I'm so confused by all of this.
I've been playing since ARR and i've been loving the story and pretty much everything about it.
People seem to be raving about EW while I thought the whole expansion including combat was mostly boring af..
I enjoyed the story including Wuk. Maybe the difference is is that I didn't hype DT at all after not expecting much after EW.
Different folks different strokes I guess.
Not saying ppl arent entitled to their opinion, but geez its a bit over the top

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Originally Posted by Eyrilona

You know you are in a weird market when them responding to complaints after seven years still actually makes it one of the faster response times among the large MMO companies, no?

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No. Because that's not the case. The whole "ffxiv devs are great at communicating" was always such a meme. Even Destiny devs were faster and better at communicating. Their equivalent of live letters releases every week. GW2 devs address complaints faster. OSRS devs have surveys and address complaints faster. WoW devs it depends. Probably same level of speed. As in sometimes they don't address anything for many years, and sometimes they do collect feedback from their beta testing and actually fix/change things. At least they have beta testing though. FFXIV you don't even know what kind of slop you'll get before it's too late. LOTRO and DDO address complaints faster, and that with the 2 devs they share between those MMOs.

What MMO does not address complaints faster? Only completely dead ones like SWTOR? I mean, sure, if that's the bar we're setting for ourselves.

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Originally Posted by BakoolJaJa

No. Because that's not the case. The whole "ffxiv devs are great at communicating" was always such a meme. Even Destiny devs were faster and better at communicating. Their equivalent of live letters releases every week. GW2 devs address complaints faster. OSRS devs have surveys and address complaints faster. WoW devs it depends. Probably same level of speed. As in sometimes they don't address anything for many years, and sometimes they do collect feedback from their beta testing and actually fix/change things. At least they have beta testing though. FFXIV you don't even know what kind of slop you'll get before it's too late. LOTRO and DDO address complaints faster, and that with the 2 devs they share between those MMOs.

What MMO does not address complaints faster? Only completely dead ones like SWTOR? I mean, sure, if that's the bar we're setting for ourselves.

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You are right, and I should have narrowed it down to 'conventional MMORPG companies', because MMORPGs are the only kind of MMO games I play. I never occurred to me that the MMO label also applied to MMOFPS games like Destiny which to me feels like an entirely different genre and I will immediately agree, indeed more responsive. The particular example I had on my mind at the time of my comment was indeed World of Warcraft's reputation for how long they'll delay taking complaints about the direction of the game seriously.

But you're even more right, even within that definition there are faster innovators I just hadn't thought off. I'll completely take my loss on this one. Have a Like :)

Yoshida lies to make him/his product look good?
no way...

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Originally Posted by Dorito_Burrito

Just wanna say congrats on making a sentence clunkier than anything in FFXIV right now.

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.....he quoted Lahabrea during his monologue in the Ultima trial. Athena also says it during her trial (being his wife and all and the heart of Sabik, from which he likely got the quote).

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Originally Posted by Calysto

1 - the graphical update was wasted on XIV, it was still great before.
FF7 remake is a thing, but it's a complete remake not just a coat of paint.
It should have been FFXI getting an update (graphics on par with 14 and "modern" UI), not 14.

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Have to disagree with this one, every time I've come back to FFXIV for the past couple of years after playing newer games, XIV has looked more and more outdated and it's aging graphics were more apparent than ever. A graphics update was absolutely needed for an 11 year old game they intend to try and keep competitive on the market for another decade. They obviously messed up with certain character model faces so they do need to address that, and seeing as parts of the graphics update aren't even implemented yet (many textures and materials still are highly pixelated and ugly), it's not really fair to assess the totality of the graphics update til all of it is implemented. Sure, FFXI getting an update would be cool for anyone who actually still plays that game, but that isn't the title they're really trying to push forward in the way that they are with XIV.

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Originally Posted by Audson

In light of the ongoing criticism of Dawntrail and your recent responses in interviews, let's explore:

1. An unhealthy obsession with graphic quality

Dawntrail is planned as the first major graphic update. However, have you been overly focused on very specific graphics, such as the grass and every polygon on Lalafell faces? It took the first benchmark and players flooding the forums to point out that there is more to the game than just grass and Lalafell. As a result, for the first time, there was a "patch" for a benchmark.

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Graphics update looks okay to me personally, and I am sure other players have their own opinions. Although they definitely did seem to hyper-fixate on certain things a bit too much. My eyesight also isn't the best, so there are actually a lot of things that "changed" that I haven't even noticed. I hope they just gradually keep fixing things as they go along.

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Originally Posted by Audson

2. A surprising lack of MMORPG knowledge among development team members

Does this also extend to the writing team? Is your current writing team lacking the knowledge and experience needed to create a compelling story within the current MSQ structure/formula? It seems so, especially if you thought that main story quests should have been side quests.

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I think the current team is a bit "in over their heads." They relied WAY too much on doing constant "Call backs" to the past expansions with moments and certain characters, but making them for Wuk Lamat, without really seeming to understand why those original moments and those certain characters were important and meaningful to our WoL. Do I think the current team all need be fired? No. But if all of them are more use to side content, like Hiroi was, then I think they need to be overseen more thoroughly, at least until they can get their footing.

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Originally Posted by Audson

3. The mindset that the solution to every problem could be patched in a future update

Did you approve the Dawntrail story under the pretense that any "weaknesses" in the story would be addressed later following player feedback?

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I really want to say that Yoshi-P wasn't as involved with Dawntrail as past expansions. With essentially having to work on both FF14 and FF16 at the same time, he probably had to take a step back for most of Endwalker's MSQ's and Dawntrail MSQ and give the okay to ship them, even if the quality as a result wasn't as good as expected. I mean he even said Endwalker content put him to sleep, so the quality certain wasn't at the level he was probably expecting. And while Dawntrail's content is certainly a step up from Endwalkers, the story still needs work. I know OP is roasting Yoshi-P for his "The mindset that the solution to every problem could be patched in a future update" point, but I DO hope they actually take what they said seriously about listening to feedback and working on things during the Dawntrail patches.

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Originally Posted by ZXN

I really want to say that Yoshi-P wasn't as involved with Dawntrail as past expansions. With essentially having to work on both FF14 and FF16 at the same time

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Let's do some maths. FF16 was originally going to release about 6 months earlier, so in 2022, but covid delayed their office communication and the delivery of assets (they out-source a lot to other companies).

"That said, we have spent much of 2021 addressing this issue, and hope to see its impact to a minimum by the new year, allowing us to better focus on the tasks at hand: increasing graphic resource quality, refining combat mechanics, fleshing out individual battles, putting the finishing touches on cutscenes, and conducting overall graphical optimization,"

These sort of words suggest the game was more or less done when Endwalker released in 2021 and they were adding finishing touches, refining and optimizing it. This is evident even from the trailer in 2020. Therefore, the argument that it took most of his focus during Endwalker patches doesn't make a lot of sense.

At the end of 2023, he said the "development team for FF16 has been disbanded, except for the main DLC team".

Their actual FF16 development team had been "distracted" with FF16 going back to the Heavensward patches, so an argument would have to made that Stormblood and/or Shadowbringers suffered from this too.

Despite all of these things, people still continued to say "they are distracted with FF16". The reality is, people just didn't like their content and gameplay decisions and FF16 was just a convenient scapegoat.

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he even said Endwalker content put him to sleep, so the quality certain wasn't at the level he was probably expecting

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However, he approved the idea of increasing the hitbox size and other decisions around "making content comfortable". He just didn't realize it would lead to where it did and it was something he had to observe in the long-term. The specific content probably felt exciting when testing it for the first time, but in the long-term you see trends and limitations with the big hotboxes and certain similar mechanics. Given the time it took to say this, it probably took player feedback to make him question it enough.

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Originally Posted by Audson

2. A surprising lack of MMORPG knowledge among development team members

Does this also extend to the writing team? Is your current writing team lacking the knowledge and experience needed to create a compelling story within the current MSQ structure/formula? It seems so, especially if you thought that main story quests should have been side quests.

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That's even true for for the dev team too. The first problem with the EW patch was that they removed any kind of MMO content except for beast tribes quest. And by mmo content. I mean content made for last. Exploratory zones and relics used to be that content, but they removed it without giving anything to fill that role. I once read "the complains with the lack of exploratory zones is not the fact that we liked eureka or bozja that much, but it gave us some to engage on the long term" and I totally agree with that.

A mmorpg NEED shelf content, that will ask for some kind of farm. Up until ShB, FFXIV understood that. They achieve to give us enough farm to be satisfying, while it was not long enough to become a chore and most of all not mandatory, but present for people that like that, and giving enough rewards to . They removed all that and I don't get how the team of a mmo could that. It's mindblowing. Even now, this a problem, there's been 2 month since the release, and we're 2 month away from the next patch, and once again, the shelf content hasn't been renewed.

I had a small fear they wouldn't get the right conclusions from the lack of exploratory zone complains, but with how out of touch they seem to be lately, this fear is not so small anymore.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

A mmorpg NEED shelf content, that will ask for some kind of farm. Up until ShB, FFXIV understood that. They achieve to give us enough farm to be satisfying, while it was not long enough to become a chore and most of all not mandatory, but present for people that like that, and giving enough rewards to . They removed all that and I don't get how the team of a mmo could that. It's mindblowing. Even now, this a problem, there's been 2 month since the release, and we're 2 month away from the next patch, and once again, the shelf content hasn't been renewed.

I had a small fear they wouldn't get the right conclusions from the lack of exploratory zone complains, but with how out of touch they seem to be lately, this fear is not so small anymore.

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That isn't really true...

We are getting a lot more social, large-scale content, such as:

• Field Operations with relic grinds
• Cosmisc Exploration
• Savage alliance raids

As for long-term content, that is subjective and depends on the person. I have been busy farming hunts for the hunt mount, PvP for its mount, FATEs for its rewards and mount and still need to do the raid content for those mounts. All of this content is large scale and involves playing with 24+ people. If some people sped through this, congrats, but I need to actually eat and sleep as well...

I'll say this much: I can't claim to know much about the lore of Final Fantasy, but I think Dawntrail was a failure of writing in general. Down to the basic features, the one who got the most spotlight and the actual least development was Wuk Lamat, who was being uplifted by this expansion's writing team and they were ultimately shooketh by JP and EN not widely receiving her warmly. We've had fantastic writing and genuine Final Fantasy depth before, so Dawntrail felt like a slap in the face. The entire experience likens to that of a DnD group that has been together for a fair amount of time, the DM allows a new player in, gives them a catch-up sheet, and they proceed to stick their nose into every single experience while preaching the same message on repeat, almost non-stop, and by the grace of the RNG gods is given a free pass by everyone on the island and even overcomes her physical shortcomings with the plot device of 'power of resolve' because her cause was better than her opponent's. And not a single time do we genuinely shepherd or coach her, but instead everything we say is "you go, girl boss" and we don't get to say anything even remotely critical against the NPC. It's the first time I felt like the team said "We drive the narrative and we want you to like this character and your WoL will love this character and there's nothing you can do about it except skip the CS", and it was a genuine Western taste and betrayal that I got from this game.

I like it when all characters experience depth and growth on a relatively similar plane, but this all overshadowed the real journeys we were intending to take, like with Krile. For an opening expansion, this has been the worst in terms of story-telling. It doesn't help that the PR answers given were basically "We failed to bring forth Wuk Lamat in the intended way" but didn't elaborate on why the playerbase majorly dislikes the character. We've had characters with less screentime and with more endearing traits than Wuk Lamat, like Wuk Evu. Bloody Wuk Evu was more engaging.

So back to the original post: I can't say with confidence if the three rules were tarnished or upheld, but I can say without question that the story-telling at a basic level was an utter catastrophe when scaled next to the expansions we've gotten thus far.

Bakool Ja Ja: "You couldn't fathom the amount of dead men behind me."

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That isn't really true...

We are getting a lot more social, large-scale content, such as:

• Field Operations with relic grinds
• Cosmisc Exploration
• Savage alliance raids

As for long-term content, that is subjective and depends on the person. I have been busy farming hunts for the hunt mount, PvP for its mount, FATEs for its rewards and mount and still need to do the raid content for those mounts. All of this content is large scale and involves playing with 24+ people. If some people sped through this, congrats, but I need to actually eat and sleep as well...

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Tbf though, that content isn't in the game yet so we don't know how it will be implemented.
Field operations sure, I give you that (even though Bozja was pretty solo friendly) but after EW I wouldn't be surprised if the relics will be completely soloable.
Cosmic Exploration could be like Ishgard and that was solo.
Savage Alliance raid would be that. But who knows when that comes.
Giving more and more solo choices was the policy of them lately, at least in the more casual content.

Right now DT is really just like the expansion before it. You have Savage + Extremes and that's it.

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Originally Posted by Audson

Dawntrail is planned as the first major graphic update. However, have you been overly focused on very specific graphics, such as the grass and every polygon on Lalafell faces? It took the first benchmark and players flooding the forums to point out that there is more to the game than just grass and Lalafell. As a result, for the first time, there was a "patch" for a benchmark.

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But... if you want to play Minecraft, it's right there. Get it and look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That isn't really true...

We are getting a lot more social, large-scale content, such as:

• Field Operations with relic grinds
• Cosmisc Exploration
• Savage alliance raids

As for long-term content, that is subjective and depends on the person. I have been busy farming hunts for the hunt mount, PvP for its mount, FATEs for its rewards and mount and still need to do the raid content for those mounts. All of this content is large scale and involves playing with 24+ people. If some people sped through this, congrats, but I need to actually eat and sleep as well...

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I thought it was obvious I meant right now, since I even talk about field operation future implementation (and that field operation is not before X.2 or X.25), which mean in 6 to 8 month from now. They could change that, but my hopes on that are limited.

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Originally Posted by Talamh

All points you bring up has been present since ARR, and you were blind to them back then.
So why now? Why is Dawntrail the sticking point to you all.

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because it is bad just simple as that. its boring provides nothing intresting so far. While HS SB ShB and Endwalker had an intresting story DT just made me fall asleep like ff16 tbh. QoL changes doesnt exist because the graphic update is here which in my side havnt changed much but brought some funny bugs not gonna lie. While the other things been enjoyable some others enjoyed the battle systems like in SB. Considered for raider the best expansion was SB. See people are not talkin DT like they do because they hate it, most just want the game beeing good again and evolve. I dont know why its so hard to understand this.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

I'm so confused by all of this.
I've been playing since ARR and i've been loving the story and pretty much everything about it.
People seem to be raving about EW while I thought the whole expansion including combat was mostly boring af..
I enjoyed the story including Wuk. Maybe the difference is is that I didn't hype DT at all after not expecting much after EW.
Different folks different strokes I guess.
Not saying ppl arent entitled to their opinion, but geez its a bit over the top

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cant agree. After EW 6.X i had no expactations at all and i knew it will be slow. So i was like ill give it a try. never felt so bored in 14 not even in ARR...

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Originally Posted by Audson

1. An unhealthy obsession with graphic quality

2. A surprising lack of MMORPG knowledge among development team members

3. The mindset that the solution to every problem could be patched in a future update

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1 - Thank your fellow players and their obsession with graphics. There are usually small graphics updates each expansion that affect new assets but players always want old assets updated as well.

2 - What standard are you using when you make that claim? A MMORPG is not a single specific thing and this game has always been somewhat outside of what western players are used to seeing from western MMORPGs. The poor story in DT isn't from a lack of MMORPG knowledge and experience (the main writer has done several parts of the MSQ in the past). It was just a bad story.

3 - That's not their mindset for Dawntrail and it hasn't been their mindset since YoshiP took over. Their goal is to try out new things in Dawntrail and see what players like and what they dislike. It is the very essence of "Learn to listen and adapt." Players have said "we want you to shake the game up and try new things". So they've shaken some things up and now they're combing through the feedback so they can adapt based on what did or didn't work.

I don't think he's lost sight of what he said in that presentation at all. Seems more like some players forget the game doesn't revolve around what they personally want. Not giving you what you want doesn't mean they're not listening or they don't know their jobs.

You can try to downplay the game as much as you want but it's still one of the best MMORPGs on the market today and I doubt that's going change any time soon. If there is a better MMORPG out there, sounds like you should go play it so you can come back with more specific point to point comparisons.

No, that wasn't a "then quit" comment. Nothing says we can only play one game.

we've been in maintenance mode since the last 2 patches of EW, almost 2 years now? or more, savage and extremes are the only real content currently, and the looting system for savage has sucked ever since launch of a savage, the world isn't large enough to really want to explore, once you've been to the zones, there's nothing else to do, once you've levelled up all your jobs, i guess you could go for single digit percentile catch rate fish on a busted timer that you have to google to find or something.

The game is very new player friendly, but once you've done most of the content, it's really just sitting about till an eventual large open zone is patched in, at the least they could look into reworking BLU, it's a very lonely job, there should be some sort of duty queue with basic skills so you can at least play without the need to go out of your way to look for people.

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Originally Posted by IvoryHawk

we've been in maintenance mode since the last 2 patches of EW

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Strange that you think this. I don't see any difference since like... Heavensward really. I think it's your imagination.

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Originally Posted by Audson

3. The mindset that the solution to every problem could be patched in a future update

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*looks at Viera and Hrothgar awkwardly* Like, yeah they've been not really following that plenty in prior years but those two races are the WORST offenders AND it was all done on purpose with the intent to just leave it for later.

The Graphics update was needed, it was just not thoroughly tested and executed. It would have needed a lot more time.