MK4 is to hard

MK4 is just to hard. I have seen all the streams saying DT raids are not to hard and just get GUD, but I have 3 alts doing MK4 3 times a week and I can't get it right .... the phase where 1/4th of the room is left and we have to go back and forth is impossible ... Can anyone provide any tips ..I'm so lost on it and I play healer and when the healer dies it's game over .. I need help. (cries)

Personally UMK3 is my fave. Though I always enjoy some MK Trilogy

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Originally Posted by sagacious

MK4 is just to hard. I have seen all the streams saying DT raids are not to hard and just get GUD, but I have 3 alts doing MK4 3 times a week and I can't get it right .... the phase where 1/4th of the room is left and we have to go back and forth is impossible ... Can anyone provide any tips ..I'm so lost on it and I play healer and when the healer dies it's game over .. I need help. (cries)

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are you talking bout N or savage?


if n it really is just....memorizing which one shes blasting, it really is training goldfish memory to recognize very quick series of action to just tosss away a half second after, otherwise try to stay at the very line to try to minimize big movments from going north to south

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

are you talking bout N or savage?


if n it really is just....memorizing which one shes blasting, it really is training goldfish memory to recognize very quick series of action to just tosss away a half second after, otherwise try to stay at the very line to try to minimize big movments from going north to south

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(normal) if I did savage I'd be dead in real life already.. please explain in simple terms. I wish I were a gold fish at least i can survive under water.

When it is a Five times cannon, it will alternate sides, and only ever flash the same symbol twice in a row once.

i.e., it will never ever ever do Left Left Right Right Left, or Left Right Right Left Left, for example. It will do "Left Left" or "Right Right" only once, and then everything else will be alternating.

Once you know that, you can make a mental note for yourself, for example "move over to the other side and wait twice, then keep alternating" or "move and come back, then stay here twice, then keep alternating" or etc. You only need to care about when the "wait twice" is, everything else is just keep moving.

(This applies to the Four-times cannon as well. It's never Left Left Right Right or Right Right Left Left. The "wait twice" spot happens only once. The Three cannon is just always alternating.)

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Originally Posted by sagacious

MK4 is just to hard. I have seen all the streams saying DT raids are not to hard and just get GUD, but I have 3 alts doing MK4 3 times a week and I can't get it right .... the phase where 1/4th of the room is left and we have to go back and forth is impossible ... Can anyone provide any tips ..I'm so lost on it and I play healer and when the healer dies it's game over .. I need help. (cries)

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Leaving aside whether or not M4N is difficult or not -- because that's going to be something of a subjective measure -- and just focusing on your lament about how to read the "3/4 of the arena is vanishing" mechanic...

When she finally finishes making the gun and swings it around to aim at the arena, she will be aiming slightly to the east or west. If she's aiming west, the three western columns will be going away; the far east column will be safe. If she's aiming east, the opposite is true; it's the west-most column that's safe. You can thus stand right on the center line in front of her as she starts to prepare her gun, wait, and book it to the safe side as soon as you see her take aim. The first couple of hits actually don't actually hit that hard, so what's important is just to make it to the safe side before that last hit (and the floor going away).

If you mean the shifting back and forth on the safe one, she just telegraphs it ahead of time with sort of aiming circles; it's easy to start on the side opposite the first circle, and then just sort of tell yourself "Swap" or "Stay." For the four and five hit variants, there will always be only one "Stay," so a five-hit one might be "Swap, Swap, Stay, Swap" --- coming up with that in your head will make it a lot easier.

To elaborate slightly -- she'll be standing right on the dividing line between two of the 'squares' on the floor, and you'll see a sort of targeting circle appear on one or the other end of the gun; if you turn your camera so you are looking directly across the arena, you'll see the circles to either the left or right side of your screen. That's the side she's going to hit; you can immediately position yourself on the opposite side of that dividing line.

After that, you just look at whether the circle is on the same side as the previous one ("Stay") or the opposite side ("Swap"). Since there will be at most four moves -- you've already parked yourself in the safe spot for the first hit -- and only one of those is going to be "Stay" it is (hypothetically) easy enough to remember the pattern, like the "Swap, Swap, Stay, Swap" that I mentioned above.

Being serious now, I absolutely struggle with the same part.

Every time.

I just suck at it, and I'll probably never get it right 100%.

The only time I ever get it right is if I'm right at the line to move between the front and the back. If I move a little too far when dodging, I'm cooked, without fail.

lmao just follow someone if its normal

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Originally Posted by Dels

When it is a Five times cannon, it will alternate sides, and only ever flash the same symbol twice in a row once.

i.e., it will never ever ever do Left Left Right Right Left, or Left Right Right Left Left, for example. It will do "Left Left" or "Right Right" only once, and then everything else will be alternating.

Once you know that, you can make a mental note for yourself, for example "move over to the other side and wait twice, then keep alternating" or "move and come back, then stay here twice, then keep alternating" or etc. You only need to care about when the "wait twice" is, everything else is just keep moving.

(This applies to the Four-times cannon as well. It's never Left Left Right Right or Right Right Left Left. The "wait twice" spot happens only once. The Three cannon is just always alternating.)

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left left right right only happens twice? ughhhh mommy help!!!!

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Originally Posted by Xuled

lmao just follow someone if its normal

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I died many times following only works if follower knows where he/she is going ughhhh this doesn't help at all ...

It sounds to me like while a part of the issue might be the mech itself (I just call it out loud which sides are safe, keep repeating it and memorize it as well as possible before it happens), another seems to me is snapshotting.

So here's the thing,

The /moment/ an AOE marker is gone, the snapshot is taken. The area is now safe. This /feels/ wrong, but you can walk right into beams and flames and everything that looks like it'll kill you and it will /never/ hit you. The moment it feels like it's the least safe to be there, it's safe. Walk right into those tasty beams like a moth!

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Originally Posted by Shinku_Tachi

The only time I ever get it right is if I'm right at the line to move between the front and the back. If I move a little too far when dodging, I'm cooked, without fail.

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The snapshot on it seems a little over-eager at times, so if you have to book it more than a few steps to swap sides you may be in trouble, yeah; I've seen people move and die as they move.

But, as you observe, if you stay right smack beside the line it's fairly easy to shift safely.

The first threefold laser blast move always alternates. If you know the first hit, you know the rest of the pattern. I think Fourfold mostly follows a pattern like orange-blue-blue-orange or other way around. So position on the side that won't get hit, wait for the first blast to go off, move to that side, wait for the other two blasts to go off, and move back. Fivefold can be tricky. I like to chunk it, and track them as 3 plus 2 hits instead of trying to remember each hit individually. So I am keeping track of 2 patterns instead of 5 individual hits. Also stay in the boss's hitbox when dodging.

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Originally Posted by Kiyumi

It sounds to me like while a part of the issue might be the mech itself (I just call it out loud which sides are safe, keep repeating it and memorize it as well as possible before it happens), another seems to me is snapshotting.

So here's the thing,

The /moment/ an AOE marker is gone, the snapshot is taken. The area is now safe. This /feels/ wrong, but you can walk right into beams and flames and everything that looks like it'll kill you and it will /never/ hit you. The moment it feels like it's the least safe to be there, it's safe. Walk right into those tasty beams like a moth!

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So lets say it's Right, Left, Right, Left

After the Right beam starts, it's safe to go ahead and move over there before the Left beam starts? You don't have to wait for the animation to complete?

Threefold cannon is always alternating, so you swap after each shot.

Fourfold cannon has you swapping sides twice and staying for a shot once. Simply remember the timing when to stay put and otherwise keep dancing.
Fivefold cannon same story, but has a total of three swaps, regardless how it looks. You again just look for when you DON'T move and otherwise keep switching.

Bonus tip - stay closer to the intersecting line between the two middle tiles for faster side switching.

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Originally Posted by sagacious

left left right right only happens twice? ughhhh mommy help!!!!

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To try to simplify: for each blast, you will either need to change sides ("Swap") or stay in the same spot ("Stay"). There will only ever be one "Stay" per set (and may be none, in the three-hit variant). So if the pattern of which side she was hitting was "Left Right Right Left Right", you would start on the right side (since she's hitting left), swap to the left side (since she's hitting right), stay put (because she's hitting right again), swap to right (because she's hitting left), and swap to left (because she's hitting right).

Hence, "Left, Right, Right, Left, Right" and "Swap, Stay, Swap, Swap" are the same thing; saying "it will only ever do the same side twice in a row once" is just another way of saying "there will only be at most one 'Stay' step in the dodging pattern." Really, all you need to know to dodge correctly is which step is the Stay.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Leaving aside whether or not M4N is difficult or not -- because that's going to be something of a subjective measure -- and just focusing on your lament about how to read the "3/4 of the arena is vanishing" mechanic...

When she finally finishes making the gun and swings it around to aim at the arena, she will be aiming slightly to the east or west. If she's aiming west, the three western columns will be going away; the far east column will be safe. If she's aiming east, the opposite is true; it's the west-most column that's safe. You can thus stand right on the center line in front of her as she starts to prepare her gun, wait, and book it to the safe side as soon as you see her take aim. The first couple of hits actually don't actually hit that hard, so what's important is just to make it to the safe side before that last hit (and the floor going away).

If you mean the shifting back and forth on the safe one, she just telegraphs it ahead of time with sort of aiming circles; it's easy to start on the side opposite the first circle, and then just sort of tell yourself "Swap" or "Stay." For the four and five hit variants, there will always be only one "Stay," so a five-hit one might be "Swap, Swap, Stay, Swap" --- coming up with that in your head will make it a lot easier.

To elaborate slightly -- she'll be standing right on the dividing line between two of the 'squares' on the floor, and you'll see a sort of targeting circle appear on one or the other end of the gun; if you turn your camera so you are looking directly across the arena, you'll see the circles to either the left or right side of your screen. That's the side she's going to hit; you can immediately position yourself on the opposite side of that dividing line.

After that, you just look at whether the circle is on the same side as the previous one ("Stay") or the opposite side ("Swap"). Since there will be at most four moves -- you've already parked yourself in the safe spot for the first hit -- and only one of those is going to be "Stay" it is (hypothetically) easy enough to remember the pattern, like the "Swap, Swap, Stay, Swap" that I mentioned above.

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This is a good read :) I will copy this down and read it many times ty ...... best answer <----------

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Originally Posted by Shinku_Tachi

After the Right beam starts, it's safe to go ahead and move over there before the Left beam starts? You don't have to wait for the animation to complete?

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For what it's worth, the vast majority of telegraphed attacks in this game are instant snapshots rather than sustained damage; in those cases, you can move in before the animation is complete, because the damage has already been calculated/resolved when the animation started. (And yes, this is one of those.)

I say "the vast majority" because there are exceptions. But if you get used to dodging into mechanics after they go off but before the animation is done, you will very quickly find the handful of exceptions scattered throughout the game. Trust me on that; I speak from experience here. ;)

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Threefold cannon is always alternating, so you swap after each shot.

Fourfold cannon has you swapping sides twice and staying for a shot once. Simply remember the timing when to stay put and otherwise keep dancing.
Fivefold cannon same story, but has a total of three swaps, regardless how it looks. You again just look for when you DON'T move and otherwise keep switching.

Bonus tip - stay closer to the intersecting line between the two middle tiles for faster side switching.

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I also like your answer and you look bad ass :)

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Leaving aside whether or not M4N is difficult or not -- because that's going to be something of a subjective measure -- and just focusing on your lament about how to read the "3/4 of the arena is vanishing" mechanic...

When she finally finishes making the gun and swings it around to aim at the arena, she will be aiming slightly to the east or west. If she's aiming west, the three western columns will be going away; the far east column will be safe. If she's aiming east, the opposite is true; it's the west-most column that's safe. You can thus stand right on the center line in front of her as she starts to prepare her gun, wait, and book it to the safe side as soon as you see her take aim. The first couple of hits actually don't actually hit that hard, so what's important is just to make it to the safe side before that last hit (and the floor going away).

If you mean the shifting back and forth on the safe one, she just telegraphs it ahead of time with sort of aiming circles; it's easy to start on the side opposite the first circle, and then just sort of tell yourself "Swap" or "Stay." For the four and five hit variants, there will always be only one "Stay," so a five-hit one might be "Swap, Swap, Stay, Swap" --- coming up with that in your head will make it a lot easier.

To elaborate slightly -- she'll be standing right on the dividing line between two of the 'squares' on the floor, and you'll see a sort of targeting circle appear on one or the other end of the gun; if you turn your camera so you are looking directly across the arena, you'll see the circles to either the left or right side of your screen. That's the side she's going to hit; you can immediately position yourself on the opposite side of that dividing line.

After that, you just look at whether the circle is on the same side as the previous one ("Stay") or the opposite side ("Swap"). Since there will be at most four moves -- you've already parked yourself in the safe spot for the first hit -- and only one of those is going to be "Stay" it is (hypothetically) easy enough to remember the pattern, like the "Swap, Swap, Stay, Swap" that I mentioned above.

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*strokes chin*hmmm, We the people of bad explanations agree that this is a excellent explanation. *smashes with stamp of approval.*

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

The snapshot on it seems a little over-eager at times, so if you have to book it more than a few steps to swap sides you may be in trouble, yeah; I've seen people move and die as they move.

But, as you observe, if you stay right smack beside the line it's fairly easy to shift safely.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

For what it's worth, the vast majority of telegraphed attacks in this game are instant snapshots rather than sustained damage; in those cases, you can move in before the animation is complete, because the damage has already been calculated/resolved when the animation started. (And yes, this is one of those.)

I say "the vast majority" because there are exceptions. But if you get used to dodging into mechanics after they go off but before the animation is done, you will very quickly find the handful of exceptions scattered throughout the game. Trust me on that; I speak from experience here. ;)

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Got it! Thank you so much for taking the time to explain and the thorough explanation. I really appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by sagacious

This is a good read :) I will copy this down and read it many times ty ...... best answer <----------

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Thank you for making this thread. I honestly would have never thought to ask about this here, had you not made this thread.

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Originally Posted by Shinku_Tachi

Got it! Thank you so much for taking the time to explain and the thorough explanation. I really appreciate it.

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Always glad to help! As I've said in in a thread from back in Shadowbringers, most of the mechanics in this game are like stage magic; they're made to look complicated and confusing, but have a fairly simple answer. And generally, if folks are feeling puzzled, there's plenty of other players willing to pull aside the curtain and show how the trick is done. :)

Correct! About 95+% of attacks work this way. The very rare cases where it doesn't work that way, you'll find out when you come across them. You can usually tell them apart but it takes experience. I don't think this raid has any of them.

For now, eat those tasty damage animations!

Since the OP's question seems to have been answered, does people have some trick for the part with the 4 clones doing half room cleaves ?

While i did understand how it is working, 4 half room cleaves from the clones before a 5th from the boss, the main problem i have with this part is that it is a lot of purple things on purple things behind other purple things all that on top of a floor which color is not that different from purple as well. Despite one of the guide i did see saying "the clones are dropping slowly and you have all the time in the world to adjust", it takes because of the all similar colors and the visual clutter so much time for me to finally see what the first two clones are going to do, that the whole sequence is already going boom, boom, boom, boom and boom, meaning that if i survive the last 3 hits or not is just a matter of luck.

I am already aware of the "look at the spinning boxes that are easier to see", and it doesn't change a thing because they are purple like all the rest. Is there some kind of special pattern that is always used, or is it really all random ?

I find the easiest to just say the sequence of shots, whether she'll shoot to the front or behind, to myself as I watch her setting the shots up.

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

Since the OP's question seems to have been answered, does people have some trick for the part with the 4 clones doing half room cleaves ?

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Like Wicked Thunder herself, the clones will have the arm that's going to cleave raised up; you can see this even before the lightning starts to crackle visibly—heck, even before the clone has fully appeared—and that gives you more time to read, react, and reposition. (Plus it's easier to pick out amidst all the purple.)

As a result, you can stand in the center of the arena facing the first clone and immediately move to the side that isn't the raised arm. Then turn to the second, and move there. That ensures you're safe for the first two cleaves. Now you're free to stand there and turn to look towards the third clone; as soon as the first cleave has gone off, you can move to the quadrant that's safe from the second and third, to watch the fourth clone. And so on.

A general reason why a lot of people struggle with XIV's content is that they're waiting way too long to move for mechanics.

With very few exceptions it's safe to run into something as soon as you see the animation happening and the mentioned laser mechanic is a perfect example of one that gives you little to no time to dodge it if you're not abusing the damage snapshots to the fullest and not switching sides the instant you see a beam go off.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Like Wicked Thunder herself, the clones will have the arm that's going to cleave raised up; you can see this even before the lightning starts to crackle visibly—heck, even before the clone has fully appeared—and that gives you more time to read, react, and reposition. (Plus it's easier to pick out amidst all the purple.)

As a result, you can stand in the center of the arena facing the first clone and immediately move to the side that isn't the raised arm. Then turn to the second, and move there. That ensures you're safe for the first two cleaves. Now you're free to stand there and turn to look towards the third clone; as soon as the first cleave has gone off, you can move to the quadrant that's safe from the second and third, to watch the fourth clone. And so on.

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This ends up being particularly important with Midnight Sabbath in the savage version of the fight because you're having to ID the cleave direction of two clones simultaneously on top of dodging other AoEs in the same movement.

I typically position my camera so it's directly behind one of the clones that's forming so there's absolutely no way I can misidentify which way it's cleaving.

We died 3 times when I told the group what this community told me 1 22 1 and after I said 1 22 1 we beat it ... I have a heart felt appreciation for this forum, thank you :)

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Originally Posted by sagacious

We died 3 times when I told the group what this community told me 1 22 1 and after I said 1 22 1 we beat it ... I have a heart felt appreciation for this forum, thank you :)

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Congratulations on your success Sage! ^_^

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Originally Posted by sagacious

MK4 is just to hard. I have seen all the streams saying DT raids are not to hard and just get GUD, but I have 3 alts doing MK4 3 times a week and I can't get it right .... the phase where 1/4th of the room is left and we have to go back and forth is impossible ... Can anyone provide any tips ..I'm so lost on it and I play healer and when the healer dies it's game over .. I need help. (cries)

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Stay as close to the center line between front and back of the cannon as possible.

The timing is extremely tight and frankly, half of the time I still see people failing to it.

The snapshot just very quick. If you wait for the animation to be over and move, that's already too late.

If you have sound on, then using the sound effect of the cannon fire is actually easier than visual. As soon as you hear the shot goes off, move.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

A general reason why a lot of people struggle with XIV's content is that they're waiting way too long to move for mechanics.

With very few exceptions it's safe to run into something as soon as you see the animation happening and the mentioned laser mechanic is a perfect example of one that gives you little to no time to dodge it if you're not abusing the damage snapshots to the fullest and not switching sides the instant you see a beam go off.

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I'm going to just underline this and then run over it with a yellow highlighter for emphasis. For any mechanic that involves dodging between two spots in this game, I do not think there is anything more important to remember than this.

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Originally Posted by sagacious

we beat it ... I have a heart felt appreciation for this forum, thank you :)

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Glad you got through the fight! And glad the help/advice was useful. :)

Again. I've really gotta express my thanks to y'all in this thread.

I've been playing 14 since the beginning, and I've never heard of the "snapshots" thing; or, even the term itself, in the context it has been used in this thread, until this thread.

Better late than never I guess, lol.

But thank you. Thank you Packetdancer and everyone else in this thread taking time to offer explanations and help.

I find the bit with the 4 (or 5?) half room cleaves from circles that fall really hard to read as well. It's not like I don't understand the mechanic, it's just very hard to see through all the visual clutter. Mostly I appreciate the slightly harder content they've done for DT, but it's bad design to rely on visual impairment to make something challenging.

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Originally Posted by Shinku_Tachi

I've been playing 14 since the beginning, and I've never heard of the "snapshots" thing; or, even the term itself, in the context it has been used in this thread, until this thread.

Better late than never I guess, lol.

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Snap shot tend to refer to the difference between where you are physically on your screen, and where the server believe you are (usually 0.2 to 0.5 seconds behind). And FF14 is very notorious about it.

That's why in most case, people learn how to move "ahead" of the animations.