Does anyone miss the old mechanics of the ARR and Heavensward dungeons?

I've recently been getting a lot of HW dungeons in my roulette - some I haven't done since the updates to allow for trusts, and I have to say it's quite sad sometimes to see how dumbed down and distilled the fights and designs have become.

Some dungeons have full arenas that we used to jump around and have to do things on various platforms that now sit unused and are dusty relics of a time long gone. While I appreciate trusts, and the ability to play through the MSQ solo if you want, it does make me sad going into some of these old dungeons and remembering how dynamic and diverse they used to be in terms of mechanics/design.

Sorry, feeling nostalgic.

I miss real dungeons too but anything less than a hallway with regulated pulls was too confusing I guess

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Originally Posted by gllt

I miss real dungeons too but anything less than a hallway with regulated pulls was too confusing I guess

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I did Sohr Khai last night and one of the sprouts was like "Wow, this dungeon is hard." And, I was like... X_X

Ngl, I always hear about this from people and wish I got to experience it myself before they changed it. That does sound interesting to have a small/easy platform puzzle in the middle of a dungeon instead of it being just straight linear.

*edit to add random thought*
And then Hard mode dungeons having just harder puzzles to think through *starry eyed* yup, def a fan of the idea

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Originally Posted by LyraShu

Ngl, I always hear about this from people and wish I got to experience it myself before they changed it. That does sound interesting to have a small/easy platform puzzle in the middle of a dungeon instead of it being just straight linear.

*edit to add random thought*
And then Hard mode dungeons having just harder puzzles to think through *starry eyed* yup, def a fan of the idea

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Heavensward in particular had some seriously spectacular dungeons in their OG form. I wish you could have experienced them, too.

Do I miss, not exactly.

Do I miss how side quests dungeons worked.
Yes.

Since the implementation of Trusts/Duty Support.

I can't say much but, it was gonna happen.

What I do miss is in, not MSQ Dungeons getting changed when there was absolutely no reason to.

For Example OG Coincounter in Aurum Vale.

That boss basically taught players to learn/notice the bosses "Tells"/Untelegraphed Stances. as well as to read the name of cast bars in order to understand what to do. Or know which skills can prevent certain actions.

Boss Holds Club in Air/Cast Bar Says Swipe = He's probably gonna cone the tank/specific player.

Boss Holds Club Close in a Tight grip/Cast Bar Says Swing = He's Probably gonna do a AOE around himself.

(Or any other situation in which the boss turns or stares in a certain direction for awhile. Since he's gonna line, or 3/4 Ring AOE.)

Which players can learn to stun/interrupt depending on boss or mob.

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Most harmless sidecontent like this taught players to understand the basics of the game at lower levels.

More so cause there is no Telegraphed Orange Puddle for players to see. (Not even the late orange flash puddle)

and it was easy enough to complete, and tactically stun the boss.

I didn't mind totoraks Shiny green dot collection. but since I took the path that got you the extra one. and others took the lazy backtracking one. It was probably better off to stream line it, despite the interesting parts being gone.

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Things change, some cause of the game needing to develop. others cause of a few players Greed or disregard of others. (Looks at MSQ Roulette Changes over the years.)

Glad to have the memories of the times.

Something no others will have.

The old bees from Sunken Temple... man I miss those. For real though, I ran Sohm Al the other night with my wife, neither of us have done that in a long time and when we got to Nid and Estinien wasn't there brought a tear to our eyes.

I wish we had more wow like dungeons, yes
Something like black rock depths would be sick as hell

the dungeon content in this game is probly the most disappointing aspect for me

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Originally Posted by gllt

I miss real dungeons too but anything less than a hallway with regulated pulls was too confusing I guess

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It's not that it was confusing; it's that we as the players just found the most "optimal" route and made it linear, anyway. Why spend the time adding all these extra side rooms and paths and the like when almost everyone is just going to run the shortest possible route...and gripe at the few who don't? Same with the "walls" we get in current dungeons - they exist because people would just abuse the game mechanics to speed run to bosses and skip everything else.

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I did Sohr Khai last night and one of the sprouts was like "Wow, this dungeon is hard." And, I was like... X_X

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Worth noting that "earlier" dungeon difficulty today is not necessarily due to "old dungeons were tougher" but more the way abilities are gained at different relative levels now. I find the 51-60 group the most "challenging" now, but only because tanks are used to just wall-to-wall pulling and don't always realize they don't necessarily have their self-sustain yet, while healers don't have many of their oGCD's yet, either.

we miss the randomization of encounter design..

the current design is like writing each second what boss will do..

many many many times i sleep while playing old dungeons

Having side routes gives dungeons flavour and makes them feel more like actual places. They can always add loot and bonus bosses and stuff to side routes to make them more interesting to players.

Watching sprout tanks lead us into dead ends in ARR dungeons always makes me chuckle a bit. Yesterday the sprout tank said, "oh....we arrived at a wall!" I do kind of miss places feeling slightly more real/maze like than straight lines.

Actually the other day I died in Cutter's Cry because I forgot that I could get 2 shot by the sand on the ground that doesn't come with big orange circles. Had to laugh at myself as I wasn't used to having any real situational awareness in some time.

Trusts are why they should do this kind of stuff more, since solo players can actually explore the dungeons as much as they want. Get some extra dialogue off your party too

Yes and no.

On paper a lot of these design ideas were fun, in reality a lot of them turned up tedious because the goal of Dungeons in this game is to be a 15-20 minutes run.
Like, there was two paths you could take in Toto-Rak... but one was by far quicker, so the side path wasn't really taken. Yes you could throw more loot in this path, but people rarely go dungeonning for loot. And MMO player brain defaults to the path of least resistance always, and it creates frictions when paired with players who don't want to.

Tbh Variant Dungeons are a nice compromise imo

True, dungeons were more creative back then, now they are so dumbed down you can do them blindfolded, no paths you can take around or explore, just a straight line to the end.

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Originally Posted by Sekundessounet

Yes and no.

On paper a lot of these design ideas were fun, in reality a lot of them turned up tedious because the goal of Dungeons in this game is to be a 15-20 minutes run.
Like, there was two paths you could take in Toto-Rak... but one was by far quicker, so the side path wasn't really taken. Yes you could throw more loot in this path, but people rarely go dungeonning for loot. And MMO player brain defaults to the path of least resistance always, and it creates frictions when paired with players who don't want to.

Tbh Variant Dungeons are a nice compromise imo

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Loot is an issue also, alot of gear seems to be recolors of the old stuff, ARR was creative when it came to loot, alot of things you could mix and match.

I would like us to go back to these better designed dungeons, like actual dungeons, with good interesting loot.

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Originally Posted by Windwalker

Loot is an issue also, alot of gear seems to be recolors of the old stuff, ARR was creative when it came to loot, alot of things you could mix and match.

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Patch-ARR yeah, release ARR I disagree; Besides the lvl 15 and 30 gearsets, the rest was either forgettable or ugly. Some dungeons didn't have gear pieces for some slots at all !
I'm fine with recolor personally, but I think they should be dyeable from the get-go.

Over the years people have shown they want quick, efficient and less time-consuming dungeons to run through for tomes. Dungeon mechanics, dungeon layouts and dungeon progression design that run contrary to this are met with disdain by the larger community that simply wants in and out.

hell ya gimme aurum vale 2 baby lets goooo

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I've recently been getting a lot of HW dungeons in my roulette - some I haven't done since the updates to allow for trusts, and I have to say it's quite sad sometimes to see how dumbed down and distilled the fights and designs have become.

Some dungeons have full arenas that we used to jump around and have to do things on various platforms that now sit unused and are dusty relics of a time long gone. While I appreciate trusts, and the ability to play through the MSQ solo if you want, it does make me sad going into some of these old dungeons and remembering how dynamic and diverse they used to be in terms of mechanics/design.

Sorry, feeling nostalgic.

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Nothing wrong with feeling nostalgic <3

I miss ARR and Heavensward era dungeon design and boss mechanics too.

There are times I also miss arr and hw era for dungeons and gameplay elements.

I want interesting little mechanics to do in dungeons. Something as simple as look for one thing and make a simple action based on if said thing is white or black. Little things like winches from Halatali to open the doors instead of killing trash makes rubble fall over.

I'm grateful that I was able to experience the ARR and HW dungeons prior to their current versions. I even miss the "very glib" Prae, despite the fact that my teammates rushed off without me while I watched the cutscenes the first time I did it...

Because that was an early version of tome farming. By the 5th tome type to farm, people were over it. They just wanted to be done as fast as possible.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Because that was an early version of tome farming. By the 5th tome type to farm, people were over it. They just wanted to be done as fast as possible.

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Yeah, I figured. I wasn't super upset, but I was kinda disappointed that I didn't get to fully experience the fights as a first time sprout.

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Originally Posted by Sekundessounet

Tbh Variant Dungeons are a nice compromise imo

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Wish there was a variant dungeon roulette

i've been feeling quite nostalgic too, OP. the game used to be so much more interesting. the world used to be so much more interesting. i'm really grateful that i've been playing since 2.1 and gotten to see everything as it's came out. i know this sounds silly but i miss when in Castrum Meridianum, people actually had to use the magitek cannons to kill mobs. it was so hectic and fun then. i loved Steps of Faith launch as well. it was thrilling to run to the ballistae and fire. and like another poster said, it's so sad that Estinien is no longer in The Aery... that used to be one of my favorite parts as a White Mage main, keeping Estinien alive. they stripped that mechanic and now he isn't even there. lol. it's just sad.

Yeah, I honestly think Variants should have been more open dungeons rather than 3 linear dungeons stapled together at the begining.

Seeing as its a universal complaint of the FF series as a whole now, I doubt SE is capable of anything beyond hallways

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I've recently been getting a lot of HW dungeons in my roulette - some I haven't done since the updates to allow for trusts, and I have to say it's quite sad sometimes to see how dumbed down and distilled the fights and designs have become.

Some dungeons have full arenas that we used to jump around and have to do things on various platforms that now sit unused and are dusty relics of a time long gone. While I appreciate trusts, and the ability to play through the MSQ solo if you want, it does make me sad going into some of these old dungeons and remembering how dynamic and diverse they used to be in terms of mechanics/design.

Sorry, feeling nostalgic.

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I miss EVERY dungeon that had something Unique and got cut out. The reason? The trust system. The AI cannot do those mechanics so they edited them out or changed whole bosses (Sor Khal is just...wtf did they do?), All this, as always, to pander to the players that wants to play an MMO solo like it is a single player game. I think they should have left the OG dungeon for normal duty finder and the modified one for when you join with trust...but i guess spagetti 1.0 code had something to say about it.

I also miss the unique things old dungeons had , or even the side routes. Sure on reruns you didn't have to go to them all the time but the open aspect of exploration was a delight for a first-time run.

The fact that the endgame currency grind is tied to re-running dungeons like mentioned before is probably why some people complained , compounded with them having to do more super scripted mechanics so that they can code their trust system for them. Which tbh is kind of a shite trade-off. Instead of having some more engaging mechanics you have the same scripted dance you have everywhere else in the game and artificial mob pack cut offs worse than before that just bloat the run time. I'd really rather have the time increase in a dungeon be from a silly mechanic like the bees in Qarn than having a magical barrier that made me do 1 mob before it drops down and I do 3 more before the boss. Give me some pads to step on again , or even more engaging trash mobs , just anything else.

I feel bad for new players that didn't get to experience how silly and fun some of the old dungeons used to be. For sure dungeon design as a whole in this game has never been anything spectacular but ,man, the new versions are such a snore.

ARR no Heavensward was alright cuz they started the current formula.

ARR was too aimless and labyrinthian most of the time. Like every dungeon was the equivalent of WoW's Wailing Caverns. I like the idea of just trash pull, boss, trash pull, boss, etc.

I miss dungeons having "gimmicks" that added to potential extra damage taken or added a little bit of feeling you were doing more than just pulling enemies to the next wall during their trash segments, something they stopped doing as of Keeper of the Lake. It made dungeons set themselves apart in more than just the bosses and the scenery behind the invisible walls.
ARR optional dungeons showed you could have that while still adhering to the linear hallway design.

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Originally Posted by EdwinChucklenuts

ARR no Heavensward was alright cuz they started the current formula.

ARR was too aimless and labyrinthian most of the time. Like every dungeon was the equivalent of WoW's Wailing Caverns. I like the idea of just trash pull, boss, trash pull, boss, etc.

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There is nothing "labyrinthian" about the vast majority of ARR dungeons. The only dungeon with that problem was the old Thousand Maws of Totorak. The handful leveling dungeons in ARR that still have optional rooms (Sastasha, Stone Vigil and Temple of Qarn) make it very obvious what the critical path is.