Removing mana for most jobs is ridiculous

It is just a dumb idea that most jobs do not any kind of resource management

WAR MNK SAM RPR VPR and other jobs too

Even I would add PLD as there is nothing to manage

Mana/Rage management should be mandatory to all jobs managing it is a part of skill that jobs could have

Having too many bars and too many job guages is just going to fill my screen with stickers and that isn't interesting

Resource management shouldn't be only DRK/BLM duty in this game

Job gauges ARE resource management.

Honestly I do completely agree, it really sucks to me that Bard went 3 expansions with MP Management being such an integral part of the job, just for SE to turn around in Shadowbringers and say ‘ oh you’re not a caster, you must be too dumb to manage an MP bar ’.

Then Endwalker comes and suddenly it’s ‘ Oh you’re a caster, you must be too dumb to manage an MP bar ’

They may as well just delete MP as a mechanic now with how completely pointless it is as a mechanic.

It barely even limits Raise anymore because every healer has such easy to access to instant MP restoration (Thin Air/Assize, Aetherflow, Draw, any Addersgall ability) has

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

Job gauges ARE resource management.

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Strongly disagree with this tbh. Most job gauges you literally just hit at 100 and that’s it; there isn’t any actual ‘management’ involved unless maybe you’re a Dancer trying to deal with Tilana overcapping Espirit lol

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

Job gauges ARE resource management.

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"Don't overcap before burst or you won't be optimal" barely constitutes resource management.

I think what people want back are the team management of shared resources. Otherwise it's just a really bad single player game and I guess other people are there too.

It's a shame but I don't think the system works in this game all that well if you think about it: In other games, MP is used for special powerful techniques outside the standard attacks and spells in general but those very powerful attacks are classified as "abilities" making them limited by cooldowns instead of resources which is quite a shame really. On the other hand, that would mean you'd end up spamming your strongest skill every time unless you need another skill for a particular niche situation - a lose-lose situation really...

I wouldn't mind every skill having a fairly low cooldown but with a MP cost attached to carefully choose which special ability you want to use when - but that means that abilities should be more than "deal 300 potency lul"

TP used to be a thing used by Jobs that didn't actually use any MP... But most jobs were largely TP neutral in their rotation so it just ended up being a limit to your ability to AoE.

They could do with adding more ways to make MP useful on more jobs. Sadly, I don't think the current job design team is up to the task due to lack of manpower and/or severe lack of creativity.

Uh, honestly... The job gauges are part of the resource management... Whether this could be embedded within MP in some way is another question.

As someone else said, we previously had TP management for the physical classes, and in many cases the rate of TP generation would always exceed the cost of TP for attacking, minus when you went into AoE situations, then you would find yourself spending more than you would regen.

It was a bad mechanic then, and it would be a bad mechanic now.

Edit: Team resource management would be a nice additive, e.g., enmity management, but then the question comes how exactly would you implement something like that without it being a copy and paste of the stance dancing tanks used to do back when using stance was a deficit to damage.

TP is bad designed resource that doesn't mean MP/Rage shouldn't be part of the design

OGCD for example could take MP resources

Healers could serve not only as HP potion but MP potion as well

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Uh, honestly... The job gauges are part of the resource management... Whether this could be embedded within MP in some way is another question.

As someone else said, we previously had TP management for the physical classes, and in many cases the rate of TP generation would always exceed the cost of TP for attacking, minus when you went into AoE situations, then you would find yourself spending more than you would regen.

It was a bad mechanic then, and it would be a bad mechanic now.

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BLM for example have to manage 3 resources now

Why othey jobs have to manage 2 or 1 or even 0?

I don't get it

Resource management is fun when it feels meaningful. Lucid dreaming isn't meaningful. It's a one minute press and forget button. Pre DT BLM had engaging MP mechanics that were fun to play with and if classes had something similar to that I'd welcome it.

MP management did used to matter more and it was fine. That is true. You could easily mess up PLD and run out of MP so that you couldn't do your Holy Spirit burst properly. That's not really a thing anymore.

But obviously they want to make it difficult to mess up the rotation due to lack of knowledge/experience so that's why.

They'd have to shift back to ARR's style or away from the 2 minute meta. Mana/TP would have to be a system where you can spam something high in damage like DRK but greed is punishing.

They likely won't do that though with their hyper focus on aligning buff windows. If not, the system would just go back to punishing deaths or a lame soft enrage where you can't do anything after 5 min or whatever it would be.

TP just limited every melee job's ability to AoE and was universally celebrated when it was removed at the end of SB.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

and in many cases the rate of TP generation would always exceed the cost of TP for attacking, minus when you went into AoE situations, then you would find yourself spending more than you would regen.

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Just to clarify, the only cases where this happened were for physical ranged and Warrior. Melee would bottom out on TP, even with optimal Invigorate usage, though mainly on longer fights, ie. trials raids. Dungeons bosses weren't generally an issue as they didn't last long enough.

Physical ranged didn't have this issue as they had Tactician (or equivalent) to help them alongside Invigorate. Warrior had Equilibrium in Deliverance, which restored TP, that being the DPS stance and so was used 99% of the time, so no thought there.

If you wanted to sustain your TP as a physical job, you had to get help from outside sources, whether that is the aforementioned Tactician, Goad (which can only be used on someone else, not yourself) or AST cards (Balance or bust).



As for resource management, how are we defining it? Technically, using a skill before it overcaps to give yourself the most amount of resource to use in the 2 minute window is resource management. But, for some, that doesn't count. So what extra is actually required for it to count?

We also need to talk about other party members. Should other party members contribute to your resource management? If others have to contribute to your resource management, is it still technically your resource management? Or are you making everyone else in the team manage everyone's resources. How would that work?

Also, why does the OP (or anyone else that agrees with this statement) not agree that the job gauges are resource management? Just hit at 100? That is you managing that resource.

They are just fill and spend, so is every resource. They get built up in different ways, they get spent in different ways. Provide an example where that isn't the case. Something that isn't just fill and spend.

Mana is bad

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

Job gauges ARE resource management.

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rofl, thats cute

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Originally Posted by Kashou

Mana is bad

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-Signed: all melees

Job resources arent resources, theyre just what let you do your rotation.
You could delete all job gauges and just highlight every button to press next and it would have the same zero variability.

Depending on job, TP was actually limiting in longer single target fights. Particularly for HW era PLD and DRK. Even with perfect play, they would inevitably have to either ask for Army's Paeon or Muscle Relaxant (or just stop using physical GCDs for a few tics, which for PLD equated to dealing no damage).

It was also fairly limiting for any physical job after death, as you'd only come back with about 200 TP.

The Arrow buff from Astrologian would actually increase damage by letting people GCD faster, but if the fight was too long for it, basically almost any raid fight, and it'd cause TP issues. Particularly on DRG who had higher TP cost for WS to offset their higher potency compared to MNK or NIN, which was innately offset by DRG not having a skill speed buff.

Sprint would also consume ALL of it, so large pulls done with sprint used to have an extra layer of skill tied to them (well for WAR anyway). Also meant no using sprint to make mechanics easier in boss fights.

Its removal was cheered on in SHB, but that's because people are bad at the game and want to be bad at the game. And SE thinks they get more customers if they cater to that mindset, never realizing it's a never ending downhill slope of, "Change this. Make it more convenient(easier)." Until we land where we are now.

So you either regen mana on cooldown or you run out of mana. What's the point of this? We already have one button for some jobs. Or let other jobs manage their dots/buffs up and mana/TP at the same time, while watching which tea cup is haunted and where it moves. Maybe even pull mob one by one, sleep the other one to have resources to use buttons? WoW healer sets in early expansions were focused only on mana regen and at some point, it just got boring while encounter design hit healer mana limits. Mana got realistically killed. You still can OOM but you really have to try. Only Arcane Mage in WoW and Black Mage here use mana as its core mechanic - but also in a unique way and won't sit waiting for mana doing anything.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

It is just a dumb idea that most jobs do not any kind of resource management

WAR MNK SAM RPR VPR and other jobs too

Even I would add PLD as there is nothing to manage

Mana/Rage management should be mandatory to all jobs managing it is a part of skill that jobs could have

Having too many bars and too many job guages is just going to fill my screen with stickers and that isn't interesting

Resource management shouldn't be only DRK/BLM duty in this game

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This game is no longer the game if you're looking for RPG elements like that. It has become a mediocre action game that designs the entire battle system based on single boss encounters.

Having MP matter for every magical dps spec would make every magical dps spec be BLM with different flavors. All of them having a burn and conserve phase. Doesn't really open the floor to jobs being unique.

Well that, or it would just be "hit lucid on cooldown" which is very boring. RDM already kind of has to do that because their base rotation drains their mana

Thats why I love DRK people say its easy because it has one combo when pressing combo action is literally brain dead no DRK shine among tanks because they have no restriction but will have to manage how to spend their bloodgauge and their mana every miss step you do with DRK will cost you

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Originally Posted by Xephna

This game is no longer the game if you're looking for RPG elements like that. It has become a mediocre action game that designs the entire battle system based on single boss encounters.

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I played in stormblood

The RPG element was OKAY at best but not good either
Instead of improving it they litterly removed it from RPG first MMO second game