Giving feedback in this game is pointless (Viper changes)

When they announced changes to simplify Viper these forums were flooded with posts saying to leave it alone. They went ahead and dumbed it down anyway. Viper didn't even get to go a single damn patch before getting dumbed down.

I liked managing the debuff timer. I was having such a good time with the job, it was my new favourite after they removed timer management from Monk. Then they just gave it the same treatment anyway.

Why does anyone even bother giving feedback anymore? It just gets ignored and they do what they were going to do anyway. Can't have anything fun in this game without it getting "fixed". I'm so sick of this.

These viper changes are the closest I've ever come to a kneejerk un-sub reaction. It's absolutely braindead now and I hate it.

IDK why SE insists on making knee-jerk reaction changes to a job that's been out a month. It was the most fun I've had playing a DPS and now most of what I loved about it is gone.

Welcome to the "ignored by SE" experience. You'll find the healers in the back with their picket line.

I mean, the changes fit the rest of vipers playstyle.

NG was basically auto-refreshed anyway. Plus it was just carbon copy rpr mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I mean, the changes fit the rest of vipers playstyle.

NG was basically auto-refreshed anyway. Plus it was just carbon copy rpr mechanic.

You want timer management play blm.

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No, it was not. You were actively monitoring NG to decide whether to use Dread or Steel Fangs, which made the combo starter more dynamic, and made you reference it with your Dreadwinder. To me, it was an actual fun engaging mechanic that helped keep my brain engaged in the class and the fight.

Square Enix has no faith in their product, thats for sure. Remember when they told MCH's that they were playing it wrong, back in Heavensward? I kinda wish that mentality came back slightly. Now, all SqEx does is remove any possible friction for a class.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

NG was basically auto-refreshed anyway. Plus it was just carbon copy rpr mechanic.

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Just keep removing flavor until there is no flavor. That's worked out well for them. It doesn't matter if it was "essentially" the same as Death's Design, it still brought a specific flow to Viper that people enjoyed. Genuinely who was saying Viper was too hard? I haven't seen anyone mention it in either the JP or ENG forums.

Why are jobs barely allowed to have timers anymore, besides? They removed them from Monk, too...

Absolutely terrible Viper change. Makes it homogenous with Monk and Ninja and removes any sort of thought needed for the rotation. The burst phase is completely brain dead now, just press the blue buttons every 2 minutes. LISTEN TO OUR FREAKING FEEDBACK.

Probably would have been better to go with the initial plan and remove positionals.

https://i.imgur.com/wQYrNpN.png

https://i.imgur.com/swbMKjF.png

What the hell Square?

Great, you listened about the positionals, but then you blindside us with this nonsense instead. Who asked for this? I certainly didn't, no one I know asked for this, the forums at large said nothing about this, instead asking for the overall flow to remain unchanged.

So again; what the hell? "Managing of its combo routes" it's literally press the glowing button, there was nothing to manage. The only thing the combos really asked of you was "do you reapply Noxious yet or do the bigger damage button?" and instead it was replaced with another "press the glowing button".

The job is barely a month old and Square thought we were having too much fun apparently. I don't have the desire to level it beyond what I've already got it at if this is how Square is going to treat it. Why bother learning it when they'll just gut it.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

The job is barely a month old and Square thought we were having too much fun apparently.

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Damn I hate how good this describes the situation. The job is not barely month old, people were having fun, and that goes against everything CBU3 stands for, apparently.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

Probably would have been better to go with the initial plan and remove positionals.

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I wonder if these changes would've been added if the positionals were removed as well or if this is because they decided to listen and not remove the positionals and somehow make the job "easier" to play in a different way.
If the latter I'd be scared whenever I see people voice feedback, as it could lead to something even worse.

Going to play devil's advocate here, but have you ever considered that the amount of feedback that advocates to keep the class as it is, is outweighted by the amount of feedback asking for change?

I'm fairly sure that none of the decisions made by SE are just a "let's try this" and are founded on numbers they have from the game, as well as other threads.
Not saying that I don't understand the concern, as we do have seen cases where changes were done and rolled back later on.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Going to play devil's advocate here, but have you ever considered that the amount of feedback that advocates to keep the class as it is, is outweighted by the amount of feedback asking for change?

I'm fairly sure that none of the decisions made by SE are just a "let's try this" and are founded on numbers they have from the game, as well as other threads.
Not saying that I don't understand the concern, as we do have seen cases where changes were done and rolled back later on.

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While that may be, I have seen a lot of feedback "do not change it", and not even a single thread asking for easier debuff management, as that patch has now gifted to us. Granted, I don't speak Japanese, so I can't check the JP forum, but somehow I doubt the outcries for changes in Viper were that loud over there, considering there was backlash against the proposed changed from the Blogpost a few weeks ago in JP as well.

The job has barely been out a month. Gutting the singular point of upkeep and engagement in Noxious Gnash to cater to players who think it's upkeep was too difficult is an egregious example of a knee-jerk reaction. One that's coming right on the tail of them promising that they wouldn't be simplifying any more jobs. This is incredibly disappointing.

There's some poetic irony in there about the job based on snakes not be able to poison/wound their target.

it feels like they're afraid of people being able to make mistakes in their rotations. it just makes me wonder why i even bothered learning how to play the job when i could have just waited for the job to play itself.

Game is like supporting low performance people who can't learn how to rotation.. so they can feel good about their self's instead of actually play the game

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Originally Posted by ovIm

No, it was not. You were actively monitoring NG to decide whether to use Dread or Steel Fangs, which made the combo starter more dynamic, and made you reference it with your Dreadwinder. To me, it was an actual fun engaging mechanic that helped keep my brain engaged in the class and the fight.

Square Enix has no faith in their product, thats for sure. Remember when they told MCH's that they were playing it wrong, back in Heavensward? I kinda wish that mentality came back slightly. Now, all SqEx does is remove any possible friction for a class.

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You had to keep track of it twice a minute, because using Dreadwinder was anyway a dmg increase filter, so you needed to keep track of it 2x with dreadfang, thats it

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Going to play devil's advocate here, but have you ever considered that the amount of feedback that advocates to keep the class as it is, is outweighted by the amount of feedback asking for change?

I'm fairly sure that none of the decisions made by SE are just a "let's try this" and are founded on numbers they have from the game, as well as other threads.
Not saying that I don't understand the concern, as we do have seen cases where changes were done and rolled back later on.

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If they have this mountain of thereotical feedback they need to start actually pointing to it or if there is threads in the forums (either side) actually doing something like linking them in their explanation of job changes because the phenomenon of “make a change nobody appears to have asked for then ask for feedback, everyone opposes the change, ignore said feedback and leave the change intact” is appearing to become way more prevalent to the general playerbase

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

You had to keep track of it twice a minute, because using Dreadwinder was anyway a dmg increase filter, so you needed to keep track of it 2x with dreadfang, thats it

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And now we track it 0 times a minute, we just press the glowing button instead. The fact that Dreadwinder also affected the debuff at least had me think "alright, I just refreshed it, I'll need to wait another x seconds before I press Dreadwinder or I'll overcap".

The fact that I could look at the lack of charges on my Dreadwinders cooldown, see that I had about 6s left on my Noxious timer, and think "alright, after this combo I need to refresh or it drops". Now I just press the glowing button and press Dreadwinder without any extra thought or care if it might have any secondary consequences.

I think lorewise it kind of kills the class to remove that debuff, we're a viper with no venoms or poisons.

Kinda odd on the skill name changes too.. dropping Dread and changing it to Vice.. sounds like all the Vipers are now drug addicts

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Going to play devil's advocate here, but have you ever considered that the amount of feedback that advocates to keep the class as it is, is outweighted by the amount of feedback asking for change?

I'm fairly sure that none of the decisions made by SE are just a "let's try this" and are founded on numbers they have from the game, as well as other threads.
Not saying that I don't understand the concern, as we do have seen cases where changes were done and rolled back later on.

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Well where is that outweighing feedback? Have you found it?

21 jobs and they feel the same, it's not even 1 major patch and a new shiny job is getting changed lmao

Hey, Square Enix, just so you know, with approximately 557,460 active players, I don't think you need to simplify more jobs to attract more players to your game.

Clearly the job remake to make it "fun" in 2 or 3 years will fix it guys dont you worry

In the meantime we can all enjoy our great watered down jobs because it's just so much fun ! /s

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

Clearly the job remake to make it "fun" in 2 or 3 years will fix it guys dont you worry

In the meantime we can all enjoy our great watered down jobs because it's just so much fun ! /s

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I have no faith not this time at least

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I have no faith not this time at least

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Oh I was being sarcastic

Absolutely nothing will change. SE will keep doing what they want as they always have, that's what happens when game devs get overconfident that they think anything will slide.

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

Oh I was being sarcastic

Absolutely nothing will change. SE will keep doing what they want as they always have, that's what happens when game devs get overconfident that they think anything will slide.

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They want to attract sims-like gamers to play rpg games with mechanic and job design complexity? Hell no let's simplify everything

Remember relic from realm reborn and endwalker
You will know this game tries to attract what type of player

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

Oh I was being sarcastic

Absolutely nothing will change. SE will keep doing what they want as they always have, that's what happens when game devs get overconfident that they think anything will slide.

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I wonder when will it reach the point of having FFXIV refugees, I certainly feel like DT has been pushing it.

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Originally Posted by Rueby

I wonder when will it reach the point of having FFXIV refugees, I certainly feel like DT has been pushing it.

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Not gonna lie probably never going to happen. The majority of this community has absolutely no backbone and will defend this company until the very end, its only the minority that truly cares about the game, the majority just accepts anything they're given and are happy that way (and even grateful), which is pathetic really because they have absolutely no standards but this is just how this game's community is

I'm just glad the positionals stayed. They listened to the feedback on that, at least. I'm not too worried about the loss of the noxious debuff. It'll still play the same.

Edit: I do sympathise with those that enjoyed the debuff management. Just putting in my 2c that I don't think I will even notice a change, but I WOULD notice the lack of positional requirements.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Well where is that outweighing feedback? Have you found it?

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I have actually, it's called the Japanese forums.
This is the Viper thread in their DPS Forum: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...3%83%AC/page49

Using a bit of Google Translate and my own knowledge, the reactions seems to be more or less positive to the changes.
They applaud the holding off on the positional requirements, and there's a few posts that are sad about the removal of the poison changes, but overall people seems to be welcoming and willing to try the changes at least.
Which feels for me a huge contrast to how our forums are discussing the changes.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I mean, the changes fit the rest of vipers playstyle.

NG was basically auto-refreshed anyway. Plus it was just carbon copy rpr mechanic.

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it does not fit vipers fantasy
Viper, has no debuffs or poisons
VIPER

Honestly I agree

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Originally Posted by CamuiKushi

I'm just glad the positionals stayed. They listened to the feedback on that, at least. I'm not too worried about the loss of the noxious debuff. It'll still play the same.

Edit: I do sympathise with those that enjoyed the debuff management. Just putting in my 2c that I don't think I will even notice a change, but I WOULD notice the lack of positional requirements.

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I wish they kept it, we went from a Viper to a Ball Python :(

Not commenting on the changes because I only play Viper casual but…

The entire reason why they didn’t remove positionals was because of the heavy feedback. They write that themselves.

So I don’t agree that feedback is not listened to.

If anything it shows to give keep giving feedback.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

I have actually, it's called the Japanese forums.
This is the Viper thread in their DPS Forum: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...3%83%AC/page49

Using a bit of Google Translate and my own knowledge, the reactions seems to be more or less positive to the changes.
They applaud the holding off on the positional requirements, and there's a few posts that are sad about the removal of the poison changes, but overall people seems to be welcoming and willing to try the changes at least.
Which feels for me a huge contrast to how our forums are discussing the changes.

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Oh so...they only listen to JP feedback? Classic.

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Originally Posted by Rueby

Oh so...they only listen to JP feedback? Classic.

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I honestly don't know if that's true, or contains any truth.
I wouldn't be surprised if the developers focussed mainly on Japanese feedback, them being Japanese themselves.
The Japanese player base makes up around 1/3rd of the total player base of FFXIV, so it's definitely a huge portion.

I'm fairly sure that the EU/US feedback is collected as well by community managers or something, so I doubt they are ignoring the things we post here.
But it's speculation at best.

Love how they took away the thing people said NOT to take away, but kept the thing that most people said probably SHOULD go away (Coils positionals).

Its literally ass backwards to feedback. Can they even read?