Stats Rework

Stats have little affect on the game and the playstyle of the job..
1- I would like to share my brainstorm for Stat rework.

Tenacity: Increase Max HP and Phy + MGC Defense

Determination: Increase Damage and Restoring HP for each hit based on HP (self and party)

Direct Hit: Increase damage output ignoring % of Phy + MGC Defense

Haste: Increase damage output for OGCD spells/skills

Crit: increase damage by 150% (Crit can't be melded it is flat 25% for all jobs)

Piety: Increase buffs duration and its effectiveness (even heals) (for example you can increase damage buff to 1% and 1 more seconds each 100 piety)

Luck: increasing crit damage more than 150% up to 220%

Skill speed and Spell speed I think should be removed from the game

let some jobs play 2.5 and others 2.0 by design it is better for the game.. if job feels bad at 2.5? just play job with 2.0 instead of increasing 0.2 second at max

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2- let abilities scale with these stats

for example:

Tank defensive abilities scale with Tenacity
Tank offensive abilities scale with Determination

but burst is like 50% for each

DPS:
Ninja / Viper / Machinist / Summoner:
scale with Direct Hit and Haste

Samurai / Dragoon / Black mage / Picto:
scale with Direct Hit and Luck

Reaper / Monk:
scale with Determination and Luck

Bard and Dancer:
scale with Haste and Piety


Healers:
scale mix between: Piety, Haste , Determination.


these are just a brainstorm that I think could give some variety for the gameplay

The only stat that really needs a complete make over is Piety. It's functionally a detrimental stat to have in gear as MP is not really hard to manage and having Piety takes away from other stats.

Additionally, Skill Speed and Spell Speed should become just one unified stat as there are Jobs that use both Spells and Weaponskills.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

The only stat that really needs a complete make over is Piety. It's functionally a detrimental stat to have in gear as MP is not really hard to manage and having Piety takes away from other stats.

Additionally, Skill Speed and Spell Speed should become just one unified stat as there are Jobs that use both Spells and Weaponskills.

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Skill speed and Spell speed I think should be removed from the game

let some jobs play 2.5 and others 2.0 by design it is better for the game.. if job feels bad at 2.5? just play job with 2.0 instead of increasing 0.2 second at max

Skill and spell speed should be merged and buffed <.<

would be nice if FFXIV or SE would release charts and the likes, so can adjust after it, it is kind of ridicoulous that the community have to do the debunking twice, when the math already has been done once by SE themself.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Skill speed and Spell speed I think should be removed from the game

let some jobs play 2.5 and others 2.0 by design it is better for the game.. if job feels bad at 2.5? just play job with 2.0 instead of increasing 0.2 second at max

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I would rather SE not experiment with something like that in terms of job design and just merge the two together and let each job figure out for itself if there is value in stacking it.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

I would rather SE not experiment with something like that in terms of job design and just merge the two together and let each job figure out for itself if there is value in stacking it.

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The gains from speed is just depressive.

Can fill your gear with it and you got like 0.03 gain.

Personally, I don't find FF14's stats to be interesting; they don't offer any meaningful customization when there are mathematically correct answers. I think the game would be better off if the only "stats" we had were item level and job level.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

The gains from speed is just depressive.

Can fill your gear with it and you got like 0.03 gain.

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Agreed. Which is why I support this:

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Skill and spell speed should be merged and buffed <.<

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The main issue with stats is that people will look up optimal stats and gear for their jobs, regardless of what they do.
Even with the current, very simple system, this is already happening.

Making stats more complex and meaningful is not going to change what players already do:
- Wear and meld whatever they want without consulting external resources.
- Or look up guides and BiS gear tables that tell them what to wear and meld.

In an ideal world players could prioritize stats that suit their playstyle, and each playstyle would be equally viable or at least very close to each other.
The harsh reality of math is, however, that this is very difficult to accomplish for the amount of jobs available.

I do agree that stats should be more meaningful and fun, and I'm pretty sure the devs do too. They just have not found a solution to rework stats in a way yet, that actually incentivises players to pick their gear up and meld it without relying on theorycrafters telling them what to do. And neither have I to be honest.
I have thought about this a lot, specially when I kept juggling skill speed for Samurai around, and I always came to the conclusion that gearing up and managing stats is never fun (for me). It ends up being a priority system of Stat 1 > Stat 2 >= Stat 3 > Stat 4 with or without threshholds, to a point where having to pick up gear with suboptimal stat distribution can even feel bad. Most of the time changing what stats do will not break this system, which is probably why devs don't even bother with them anymore.

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Originally Posted by Xelanar

The main issue with stats is that people will look up optimal stats and gear for their jobs, regardless of what they do.
Even with the current, very simple system, this is already happening.

Making stats more complex and meaningful is not going to change what players already do:
- Wear and meld whatever they want without consulting external resources.
- Or look up guides and BiS gear tables that tell them what to wear and meld.

In an ideal world players could prioritize stats that suit their playstyle, and each playstyle would be equally viable or at least very close to each other.
The harsh reality of math is, however, that this is very difficult to accomplish for the amount of jobs available.

I do agree that stats should be more meaningful and fun, and I'm pretty sure the devs do too. They just have not found a solution to rework stats in a way yet, that actually incentivises players to pick their gear up and meld it without relying on theorycrafters telling them what to do. And neither have I to be honest.
I have thought about this a lot, specially when I kept juggling skill speed for Samurai around, and I always came to the conclusion that gearing up and managing stats is never fun (for me). It ends up being a priority system of Stat 1 > Stat 2 >= Stat 3 > Stat 4 with or without threshholds, to a point where having to pick up gear with suboptimal stat distribution can even feel bad. Most of the time changing what stats do will not break this system, which is probably why devs don't even bother with them anymore.

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So what ?

let people who like to optimize optimize as they want..

and people who like to try new things let them do what they want..

in the end all of them can clear content it is just playstyle rather than "let's find the optimal stat and do it"

let people build their character..
we feel like we have nothing to build

the only stat rework i need is please for the love of god and all that is holy, stop putting skill speed on maiming gear

An old idea I've always had was they should merge Det and DH and Skillspeed/Spell Speed and add a new stat (umbral / astral) that can augment abilities based on meeting certain thresholds or enable certain actions. This would allow people to build gearing around skill affects they like to have, better customizing around their playstyle so for example, if you like more damage out of positionals, stack umbral, if you want more simplistic play but maybe a DoT to manage in your rotation, stack Astral.

Healers, can stack umbral if they want more DPS utility or Astral if they want strong heals/ skills around healing. etc. If you build actions around hitting certain requirements of these stats, but not making it possible for the gearing to support all skills max effectiveness at the same time, it'll add alot more creativity to the gearing.

Feel like that would hit everyone's wants.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

An old idea I've always had was they should merge Det and DH and Skillspeed/Spell Speed and add a new stat (umbral / astral) that can augment abilities based on meeting certain thresholds or enable certain actions. This would allow people to build gearing around skill affects they like to have, better customizing around their playstyle so for example, if you like more damage out of positionals, stack umbral, if you want more simplistic play but maybe a DoT to manage in your rotation, stack Astral.

Healers, can stack umbral if they want more DPS utility or Astral if they want strong heals/ skills around healing. etc. If you build actions around hitting certain requirements of these stats, but not making it possible for the gearing to support all skills max effectiveness at the same time, it'll add alot more creativity to the gearing.

Feel like that would hit everyone's wants.

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Astral and Umbral feels like bozja kind of stat.. I understand it could add something to the game but if we have to 2 healers all are umbral we can it will be harder and DPS loss for both of them

second thing that job animations are so stiff to the point if you try to reduce casting time it will cut the animation which will broke the game visuals

at this point just add new job that focus on dps more like sage or something like old scholar to be more dots..

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Astral and Umbral feels like bozja kind of stat.. I understand it could add something to the game but if we have to 2 healers all are umbral we can it will be harder and DPS loss for both of them

second thing that job animations are so stiff to the point if you try to reduce casting time it will cut the animation which will broke the game visuals

at this point just add new job that focus on dps more like sage or something like old scholar to be more dots..

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For the Healers, that's fine if both would like umbral builds, that doesn't mean that they wouldn't have potentially spicier runs by not having less shielding/ healing etc. Having a more guaranteed and safer run is a playstyle as well which I'm positive many people, myself included would prefer. I could give two craps about fflogs nowadays. I've gotten my orange parses once upon a time and I've realized while I can still enjoy seeing my number go up every week, it's not worth the stress or hassle to pursue the perfect run timewise. I rather keep the party going and get the raids done for the week (alongside getting my drops, especially when we talk about PF timelines), then dealing with "ooh, big number"

With healers, it's also more complicated because you have two distinct identity theories clashing on what the "change" should be. You have a set of players that wants MORE DPS options on the class as a solution and another set that wants their HEALING skills to be more viable. You simply cannot have both. There is not enough healing any raid can force out consistently that doesn't put a massive strain on healer MP / resources while also asking them to maintain DPS. If you have to heal more especially via GCD, then you are doing less DPS but is the raid requirement for DPS going down? No and no evidence has ever shown that to date.

City of Heroes didn't have gear and thier gear system was more interesting.

Merge the speed stats, and make it not so problematic for job rotations please! I am so sick of defaulting to crit.

I think Skill/Spell Speed would become a really practical stat if they ever pulled the trigger and made all DPS greedy with unique kits.

Then you could use Speed to tweak your kits timeline to work better on the boss you are progging.

Remove DH as it is just Crit but worse. It would be cool to make enemies auto attack more frequently and while they are casting to actually make a stat like tenacity a bit more worthwhile alongside giving it another buff to make it competitive.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Skill and spell speed should be merged and buffed <.<

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I am a fan of just making it haste like FF11 and have it lower CD between auto attacks alongside increasing auto attack damage while also having it lower the CD on all abilities with a CD instead of just a few.

Question... They recently reworked Tenacity right? Does it have any bearing to the gear now? I heard it during 7.0 release but I dunno if tenacity ever became useful after the tweak they did.

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Originally Posted by Mnemy

Question... They recently reworked Tenacity right? Does it have any bearing to the gear now? I heard it during 7.0 release but I dunno if tenacity ever became useful after the tweak they did.

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It is still worse of a damage increase than Det and because the only thing that matters for mitigation are tank busters (unless that changes in savage) the damage mitigation aspect doesn't matter since you just use CDs for tankbusters.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

It is still worse of a damage increase than Det and because the only thing that matters for mitigation are tank busters (unless that changes in savage) the damage mitigation aspect doesn't matter since you just use CDs for tankbusters.

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The point of having stats in any game that it can scale with skills and spells

Then you can create unique jobs and different playstyle

I know there should be optimal way to play like you can't have full determination dark knight for example

But you can lean more into it could create new playstyle that people could enjoy

Or some spell could be scaled with different stats could create much more complex and fun designs

This games stats are extremely boring. I think currently the only job that has any stat interaction, with regards to its rotation, (unless you count the speed stats) is monk where you gain a chakra when you crit. Would be nice if the stats actually had a noticeable effect on your rotation other than bigger number. WoW, for example, does stats really well. they have far better stat interaction with their classes like crit allowing fire mages to get to use an instant cast pyroblast if they crit twice in a row or activating various other procs on other classes. Haste increases the tick rate of hots/dots, increases attack speed and reduces gcd. And then there's the mastery stat which may be the best stat that has ever been designed in an mmo as it usually interacts with the core mechanic of your classes rotation in an interesting way and what it does is different for every class/spec.

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Originally Posted by Azlith

This games stats are extremely boring. I think currently the only job that has any stat interaction, with regards to its rotation, (unless you count the speed stats) is monk where you gain a chakra when you crit. Would be nice if the stats actually had a noticeable effect on your rotation other than bigger number. WoW, for example, does stats really well. they have far better stat interaction with their classes like crit allowing fire mages to get to use an instant cast pyroblast if they crit twice in a row or activating various other procs on other classes. Haste increases the tick rate of hots/dots, increases attack speed and reduces gcd. And then there's the mastery stat which may be the best stat that has ever been designed in an mmo as it usually interacts with the core mechanic of your classes rotation in an interesting way and what it does is different for every class/spec.

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to make stat noticeable make it skills scale with the stat

this is the only way to make gameplay more flexable

it is like this:

Skill X do 300 base damage + (20% tenacity)+(60% determination) = around 500 depend on stats

and some abilities will do 25% defense + 70% tenacity + 30% determination = around 40% depend on stat

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Originally Posted by Tunda

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How to tell me you have no idea how the stats work, without telling me you have no idea how the stats work.

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Originally Posted by Alchemii

How to tell me you have no idea how the stats work, without telling me you have no idea how the stats work.

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so please tell me how stats work, I challenge you

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Originally Posted by Tunda

so please tell me how stats work, I challenge you

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Or you can actually research what your talking about instead of saying "We need stat changes" then present the most simple minded braindead take on how to do stats. And here's a hint, the reason I know you don't understand, is because you want to add Luck and want to get rid of skill speed. That tells me you have no idea how the stats work, what most of the stats actually do, or how they interact with the skills in this game. And it's gonna take to long for me to explain it too you, and I know you won't read it, because you made this thread without actually understanding it first.

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Originally Posted by Alchemii

Or you can actually research what your talking about instead of saying "We need stat changes" then present the most simple minded braindead take on how to do stats. And here's a hint, the reason I know you don't understand, is because you want to add Luck and want to get rid of skill speed. That tells me you have no idea how the stats work, what most of the stats actually do, or how they interact with the skills in this game. And it's gonna take to long for me to explain it too you, and I know you won't read it, because you made this thread without actually understanding it first.

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Acting like you know what you saying isn't enough
It is not only showing that you don't know what to critique but also you don't know why ffxiv devs want to get rid of skill speed and spell speed

If you claim that I don't know and you know why giving us a better option ? Is it because you have no idea? Or you just trying to make a point on nothing!

That's sad to see even for a player who plays since 2014 can't understand why sk/sp speed nerved

Such an ignorant

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Skill speed and Spell speed I think should be removed from the game

let some jobs play 2.5 and others 2.0 by design it is better for the game.. if job feels bad at 2.5? just play job with 2.0 instead of increasing 0.2 second at max

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Then avoid Skill Speed if you want the base GCD. Don't remove the ability for others to play at a higher pace if that extra engagement is worth the damage loss for them.

Frankly, the biggest change Skill Speed and Spell Speed require... is just to be merged. (And ideally, they buffed to be competitive with Crit on most jobs, with maybe even a slight preference given to it on jobs whose skill-portion-of-damage scales with hastened GCDs more so than most.)

The redundant stat is Direct Hit, without which we'd have far more gameplay choice in spending via the larger stat portions remaining to each surviving stat, for bigger booms, greater consistent damage, or deeper rotational thresholds.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Then you can create unique jobs and different playstyle

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I have trouble believing this is your intent given that you want to remove, without any effective replacement, the only stat that actually affects gameplay. (And all to, what, make it so you have to stick to just one job per gear class by making their identical-gameplay BiS stat different for each?)