Buying an EX Mount for 99 totems right away instead of waiting 8 months...

Why do developers punish unlucky players?
Why do some spend 10 minutes and get a mount, while others spend 17 hours (not counting waiting for PF, entry, etc.), and some even more time to make 99 totems. And then wait another 8 months. This is unfair to the players. If I went, learned the mechanics, spent time on this EX, got 99 totems, why can't I just go and buy it now? Or is this a punishment for being unlucky players? When reality has already punished you for the fact that you have never seen a mount in 99 runs, or you throw 1, 2 or 3..

When I did 50 runs on the EX1 and saw the mount 3 times. And when I threw 1 on the first mount, threw 1 on the second mount and threw 3 on the third mount... and immediately remembering when every time I bought a mount for 99 totems that no longer brought a drop of joy. I'm no worse than other players who got the mount in less than 10 runs...
I'm the same player who tried harder to get this mount now..

I really ask the developers to make it possible to purchase the mount right away, I just beg you...

I totally agree with this

FF does not have a lot in game that keeps it's rarity very well. Getting the mount early gives the, 'oooeh shiny' feeling. At least for a while till they let you buy it and everyone and their mother gets it and for many players it's no longer as special.

Plenty people value that bit of exclusivity. Similar to having full BiS in early savage tier or the ultimate weapons soon after the release. Sure later on in time more people will have all those things, they get easier to get. But it's nice to have that time to show off your shiny thing for a bit.

I don't mind getting the mount later. I appreciate the happy medium with the system as is.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

FF does not have a lot in game that keeps it's rarity very well. Getting the mount early gives the, 'oooeh shiny' feeling. At least for a while till they let you buy it and everyone and their mother gets it and for many players it's no longer as special.

Plenty people value that bit of exclusivity. Similar to having full BiS in early savage tier or the ultimate weapons soon after the release. Sure later on in time more people will have all those things, they get easier to get. But it's nice to have that time to show off your shiny thing for a bit.

I don't mind getting the mount later. I appreciate the happy medium with the system as is.

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There's no prestige due to luck
Prestige with savage and ultimate already exists. I'd rather they increase the totem trade to 200 for bragging rights while removing rng drop. I'd praise someone who cleared said duty 200 times for it than someone who got a lucky roll.

Gotta shove in reasons to stretch that sub money, one way or another!

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Gotta shove in reasons to stretch that sub money, one way or another!

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if that's their goal 200 (as example) clears vs rng would make more sense. With rng you'll have some that get it in clear 1 or those who won't even try until they add the totem exchange so they will have no real incentive to sub until it becomes easier to do said extreme while at the same time they add the totem trade.

I have to agree, I’d you put in the time to get 99 tokens, you should be rewarded by getting it now.

A player in my FC wanted a mount so badly they had to grind hundreds of tokens to win the drop. They did that because they didn’t want to wait.

I never farmed an ex trial for a mount when it was relevant content because i consider doing the same fight over and over a tedious waste of time.

Now i would if it was a 100% drop rate chance though or if it cost only 10 totems but since it's not the case i just wait the end of the next expansion to roll over the fight in a couple of minutes.

I dont understand the arbitrary time between it either.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I dont understand the arbitrary time between it either.

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It's a relic of the past when casual players were actually doing extreme trials as regular content. Most casual players are over it and just wait until unsync or until they add the totem trade; rng isn't a good system for "hard" content just to get a mount.

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Originally Posted by NovaStella

Having rare items in an MMO is fun. Honestly I think the sudden amount of complains about the system is because more people want the mount, you'll get it eventually, why does it have to be right now?

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What’s being rewarded by having the totem exchange locked until 7.2?
It’s not skill. There’s no skill in pressing ‘need’ and letting a RNG decide if you beat 7 other people to be rewarded.
It MIGHT be networking. Rewarding players for networking into static groups that never slot in fills, so that there’s a chance that all 8 players will get a mount before the static reaches 99 runs.
But by your argument, why not just remove the random mount drop and make it only a 99 totem purchase? You’ll still get the mount eventually, so why should anyone be able to get it in 1 run when somebody can be on their 98th run in a group, and lose it to the 1st timer who dies off cooldown and gets a zombie carry?
Maybe if the loot system made players unable to roll need if they come in below a certain DPS value for their role, you could make an argument this system rewards skill.
But as it is, it really rewards nothing but sheer luck. And sheer luck is not fun, because it allows for no individual expression or achievement.

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Originally Posted by NovaStella

Having rare items in an MMO is fun. Honestly I think the sudden amount of complains about the system is because more people want the mount, you'll get it eventually, why does it have to be right now?

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Well...
If those rare items are GUARANTEED once the content is completed, I agree.
If those rare items are drops from an RNG system I can’t see where the fun should be

The system should get rid off the Mount drop and leave just the tokens, so every players are treated equally.

Same for all the others rng system in this game.

The delay is why I don't farm extreme trials when they are current content. If I have to wait a year to buy the mount, it's already irrelevant and I might as well wait two years and do it during the next expansion when the boss dies faster.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

FF does not have a lot in game that keeps it's rarity very well. Getting the mount early gives the, 'oooeh shiny' feeling. At least for a while till they let you buy it and everyone and their mother gets it and for many players it's no longer as special.

Plenty people value that bit of exclusivity. Similar to having full BiS in early savage tier or the ultimate weapons soon after the release. Sure later on in time more people will have all those things, they get easier to get. But it's nice to have that time to show off your shiny thing for a bit.

I don't mind getting the mount later. I appreciate the happy medium with the system as is.

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I'd say if someone goes out of their way to clear a fight 99 times, they deserve to show off

We can't have anything fun anymore like rare drops because people cry about luck. I'd almost rather them just remove the option to even buy it, then this wouldn't even be an issue. (Which is the case in other MMOs)

But naturally because this is the FFXIV community, people instead complain about not being able to grind something at the expense of people who felt good rolling on a rare drop. (Which are exceedingly rare in this game to the point where they're almost nonexistent.)

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Originally Posted by Jokerz_93

Well...


The system should get rid off the Mount drop and leave just the tokens, so every players are treated equally.

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I completely agree with this. Why can't you make it so that you can buy a mount immediately after EX appeared for 100 totems. Let's say at release, 1 totem drops per run (100 runs). After 6-10 months, increase the totem drop from 1 to 2 (50 runs). By the end, make 4 totems per run (25 runs). After all, the developers were able to make normal loot in Creterions, there you either get a mount from a chest or you are guaranteed to get it for coins after 25 runs.

Get rid of totems altogether.

Get it as a random drop or not at all.

I mean, jealousy is what drives a lot of markets. And that jealousy/vanity equals money in the bank for SE.

As in, a Ford Mustang is a perfectly fine kinda-sporty car that does everything a car needs to do and costs like 1/10th what a Lamborgini costs. People still wanna buy and show off their Lambo tho.

So, if player A got 99 totems and is ready to buy in that 8 months or w/e, do they actually wait, or keep trying for the RNG? If they go for RNG, jealousy/vanity wins, playtime is burned and SE gets paid.

Not that I'm saying anyone is wrong or vain person mind you; it's just a business tactic.

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Originally Posted by SekiaTa1ga

We can't have anything fun anymore like rare drops because people cry about luck. I'd almost rather them just remove the option to even buy it, then this wouldn't even be an issue. (Which is the case in other MMOs)

But naturally because this is the FFXIV community, people instead complain about not being able to grind something at the expense of people who felt good rolling on a rare drop. (Which are exceedingly rare in this game to the point where they're almost nonexistent.)

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I don't know about you, but I didn't see the appeal of running the 89 dungeon in Endwalker probably close to 1000 times just so I could finally get the Tiny Troll minion. Same thing applies to these mounts.

Also at this point with some PFs, I assume some people with the mounts just "paid for it". You know the PFs. "1 million to each person for the mount" and such like that.

I gotta agree with the author, being timegated when not getting it after 99 runs most feel bad, (i only have done the fight twice atm) Like op said there isn't much skill in just getting lucky with a drop and a high roll.

So why not make it avaible now, for the super dedicated people, you would still need to run 99 times and lose all rolls to even get it which takes a long time.

They need it to keep replayability. Keep farming or wait. You have the choice. It incentivizes play time and subscription.

Imo, they should just give the mount after the 10th clear via achiements. "Farming" a duty over and over isn't fun.

>someone gets the mount drop when they get their 99th totem
>justify it because "now I don't have to wait 8 months!"
change the system if only because I am tired of people like this

I mean you are punished enough already if you have to do the fight 99 times but then having to wait half a Year is just over the top. Was like this for me with the Zodiark EX Mount.

I totally agree why to wait?? if we run 99 times we deserve the mount...

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Originally Posted by Infindox

I don't know about you, but I didn't see the appeal of running the 89 dungeon in Endwalker probably close to 1000 times just so I could finally get the Tiny Troll minion. Same thing applies to these mounts.

Also at this point with some PFs, I assume some people with the mounts just "paid for it". You know the PFs. "1 million to each person for the mount" and such like that.

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Well then don't do it? This is the thing that to this day I've never understood about the FF community; you're not entitled to anything just because you 'want' it. The entire community does this almost constantly about every facet of the game despite FF being better than almost any other MMO about this as it is. Because of this mindset we've pretty much lost all exclusivity when it comes to this game because everyone wants what their neighbor has and if they can't get it, they cry about it. It's overall made the game worse in that regard and removed the prestige of achieving quite alot of (most) stuff because nothing is rare anymore.

I mean the mounts aren't even that uncommon as it is, you go to to any random hunt train and you'll see like 20 people with EX1 or EX2 wings. Equity on every footing makes stuff boring and removes alot of the cool feeling you get when you're one of the few people to get a mount, item etc. But hey, I mean, as long as nobody feels left out then making everything homogeneously boring is fine, right?

The irony is that removing rng and making it 99 clears lengthens the content more than the current rng system which they buff in the future.
If they don't want people to have to farm 99 totems when they're unsynced the following expansion they can just manually decrease the number.

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Originally Posted by SekiaTa1ga

Well then don't do it? This is the thing that to this day I've never understood about the FF community; you're not entitled to anything just because you 'want' it. The entire community does this almost constantly about every facet of the game despite FF being better than almost any other MMO about this as it is. Because of this mindset we've pretty much lost all exclusivity when it comes to this game because everyone wants what their neighbor has and if they can't get it, they cry about it. It's overall made the game worse in that regard and removed the prestige of achieving quite alot of (most) stuff because nothing is rare anymore.

I mean the mounts aren't even that uncommon as it is, you go to to any random hunt train and you'll see like 20 people with EX1 or EX2 wings. Equity on every footing makes stuff boring and removes alot of the cool feeling you get when you're one of the few people to get a mount, item etc. But hey, I mean, as long as nobody feels left out then making everything homogeneously boring is fine, right?

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What prestige do you gain by having a random number generator give you a higher number than 7 other people? What did you accomplish that means you deserve more tangible recognition for your efforts than those 7 other people?
I’m genuinely interested in understanding your viewpoint, if you can explain the logic behind it.

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Originally Posted by Innio

Why do developers punish unlucky players?
Why do some spend 10 minutes and get a mount, while others spend 17 hours (not counting waiting for PF, entry, etc.), and some even more time to make 99 totems. And then wait another 8 months. This is unfair to the players. If I went, learned the mechanics, spent time on this EX, got 99 totems, why can't I just go and buy it now? Or is this a punishment for being unlucky players? When reality has already punished you for the fact that you have never seen a mount in 99 runs, or you throw 1, 2 or 3..

When I did 50 runs on the EX1 and saw the mount 3 times. And when I threw 1 on the first mount, threw 1 on the second mount and threw 3 on the third mount... and immediately remembering when every time I bought a mount for 99 totems that no longer brought a drop of joy. I'm no worse than other players who got the mount in less than 10 runs...
I'm the same player who tried harder to get this mount now..

I really ask the developers to make it possible to purchase the mount right away, I just beg you...

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Agree... The mount being available for purchase so late just cheapens it a lot. When that happens, people will outgear this fight and will probably trivialize mechanics. So why not let the grind be now that the fight is actually a challenge?

I feel the EX2 is way more annoying to reclear than the EX1, so I'll probably just wait later on to have an easier time with the farm.

Also, make the tokens useful for something else!

Or, if people want their shiny """rare""" EX mount, give it a single patch before releasing the 99 totem purchase. For example, these recent EXs that came out 7.0, in 7.1 give an option to buy. Though, I prefer just being able to buy it right away since im always having to buy these dumb mounts bc my lluck with rolls is abysmal.

It's just meaningless and arbitrary. If people have 99 totems then all you're doing is forcing them to sit on those totems for several months for no reason whatsoever other than to add artificial rarity.

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Originally Posted by Innio

Why do developers punish unlucky players?
Why do some spend 10 minutes and get a mount, while others spend 17 hours (not counting waiting for PF, entry, etc.), and some even more time to make 99 totems.

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And on many cases its the one player that literally got his butt dragged through the fight lol

It just hurts, the joy stops around the 50-60th kill for me... the mount its tainted and feels sour for ever after having to buy it... had too many i REALLY wanted but after 160+ Suzaku runs i just gave up and set my limit to 100 kills + how ever many more i need to get my needed weapons - yes before the coffers i managed to be that unlucky i didnt even get all weapons after 100+ kills lol...

Id be all in for having the mount from an 100 kill Achievement.

Ive said it before, some very few to the hell grind till 500+ kills, some give up midway, some just dont even try.

Back during heavensward i was very unlucky and had to buy many and SB had me buy every mount from Susanoo onward, only titania showed some mercy at 74 kills... way later i was having really fun with emerald, having 3 drops within my first 10 kills, rolling 90+ on each... and gettin beat by at least 2 ppl on each of em... took really all the joy.

And to add insult to the injury they added those mounts to mogtome...


Endwalker ive had another batch of mounts i had to buy, but at least the fights dropped two tokken. still gettin Bahamut months later just because i was Unlucky on zeromus hurt... at the very least the last one should be available before that quest is unlocked.



And personally... my goal is to clear those trials within a week of their release, i like the challenge, its fun when its new and you can go in blind... doing it several patches later is just... frustrating, i cant bear melting those trials.

If you want my hon est opinion, they shoudl be unlocked in the x.x5 in the patch after the trial was introduced. Like for these two it would 7.15 instead of 7.2

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

If you want my hon est opinion, they shoudl be unlocked in the x.x5 in the patch after the trial was introduced. Like for these two it would 7.15 instead of 7.2

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I can see this being a more reasonable ask.

I think unlocking it right off the gate is a mistake and would kill interest in the content way too soon after release.

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Originally Posted by AlysCamoa

What prestige do you gain by having a random number generator give you a higher number than 7 other people? What did you accomplish that means you deserve more tangible recognition for your efforts than those 7 other people?
I’m genuinely interested in understanding your viewpoint, if you can explain the logic behind it.

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Of owning something that most people don't have obviously. Why do you think people value are things in real life that are seen as uncommon or rare, it's exactly applicable to this. What a ridiculous question lol. It has nothing to to with 'recognition for effort.' That already exists in the game as well as it should. It doesn't mean rare drops shouldn't exist; even better when they're both combined.

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Originally Posted by SekiaTa1ga

Of owning something that most people don't have obviously. Why do you think people value are things in real life that are seen as uncommon or rare, it's exactly applicable to this. What a ridiculous question lol. It has nothing to to with 'recognition for effort.' That already exists in the game as well as it should. It doesn't mean rare drops shouldn't exist; even better when they're both combined.

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Except this isn't real life. Real Life has already enough time demanding things. and no everyone has time to farm. (Same bs with Fomo, DCTravel killing Hunts of the less populated homeworlds. or The fact that PVP items have yet to return-let alone the bs, demands for t100. Rather than a ranked bp and improving the content/duty.)

There is no gain in exclusivity, more so when you know the exclusivity is fabricated.

It doesn't even benefit the game long term. as noted by players here who just go by the waiting now instead of actually running the content.
(It just Dies once more and more people get theirs and others tire out. Making the game less entertaining and fun. rather than any sense of achievement.)

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As for those who ask for Totem removal. that just exacerbates the situation. Some get item, they no longer queue and ditch.

Less players filling the queues/pf, increasing fatigue. so alot will just wait till it unlocks or becomes unsync able.

What is the outcome of that?

oh idk, ever so quickly abandoned content.

I just don't waste my time with that. I am waiting for wingmounts for years. But I don't want to waste my time with pointless EX farms with under 5% droprate.

I was never a fan of such artificial scarcity. The droprate should be 30% minimum. I wonder..., how is everything below respecting their players time?

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

Except this isn't real life. Real Life has already enough time demanding things. and no everyone has time to farm. (Same bs with Fomo, DCTravel killing Hunts of the less populated homeworlds. or The fact that PVP items have yet to return-let alone the bs, demands for t100. Rather than a ranked bp and improving the content/duty.)

There is no gain in exclusivity, more so when you know the exclusivity is fabricated.

It doesn't even benefit the game long term. as noted by players here who just go by the waiting now instead of actually running the content.
(It just Dies once more and more people get theirs and others tire out. Making the game less entertaining and fun. rather than any sense of achievement.)

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As for those who ask for Totem removal. that just exacerbates the situation. Some get item, they no longer queue and ditch.

Less players filling the queues/pf, increasing fatigue. so alot will just wait till it unlocks or becomes unsync able.

What is the outcome of that?

oh idk, ever so quickly abandoned content.

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Yeah but, I fundamentally don't care because I don't think everyone has a right to every item in the game anyways. Not everything needs to be farmable and equally acquirable. Diversity is much more interesting than equal accessibility in how items are acquired and FFXIV is already more than generous on this front.

FFXIV already has one of the most boring loot systems out of pretty much any other MMO and opinions like this only serve to make it way worse. The crazy thing people don't realize is these kinds of opinions are microcosms/derivative of almost everything wrong with this game right down to the dull itemization, all DPS feeling the same, tanks/healers lacking diversity etc etc. All of it done in the name of balance and fairness.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

I mean you are punished enough already if you have to do the fight 99 times but then having to wait half a Year is just over the top. Was like this for me with the Zodiark EX Mount.

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i just completed 99 totem for both EX trial and i can't agree more than that, it feel so unfair and unrewarding.
SE really need to change those weird unhealthy design choices.

When you have been going through EX at the start for more than 5 years, when it is relevant. And during these years you buy mounts for 99 totems of lvl 80/90/100 EX. When out of these 16 mounts you only get 2 with the help of Gacha, and you buy the remaining 14 for totems 8 months later = it is not fun. Not fun at all. I like to go through difficult content, I like to get things that I spent a lot of time and effort on (I closed some EX more than 200+ runs). The same example Criterion, it is the same difficult content as EX. But for some reason I was able to get a mount from there with my bad luck, because there you are guaranteed to get it in 25 runs. Yes, I will get only 1 mount, others may be lucky to get it from the chest. BUT you did it, spent time, effort .. and got it. And don't drag other MMOs into this, we play this game, not some other one.
If you say that we need to remove 100% item drop completely. Then let's also remove 100% totem drop from Ultimate or make 1 totem for 8 people per playthrough. Or drop 1 chest with one item in Savage per week without additional books.
Then the game will turn into a second job on which you will most likely need to spend all your time (most likely even quit your job in IRL and completely forget about IRL) in order to get at least something in the game. THIS is absurd.
People play to relax, to distract themselves from work and problems to get the long-awaited item on which they spent time and effort. And not to come home from work and once again fall into despondency from bad luck gacha...

I see. So from the two replies I got, I gather that the prestige comes from no achievement accomplished by oneself, but rather by sheer luck combined with the misfortune of others conferring some sort of prestige through sheer rarity.
I can only assume this is the sort of mindset that gambling addicts have.