Progression system that could improve endgame (By a lot)

After reaching level 100 I think it would be silly if we just increase 10 levels each expansion so I have imagined a progression system that I think could improve endgame:

All character will reach level 100 and I believe it is time to stop increasing the cap and introduce a new system that will change game vertical progression to partially horizontal progression, improving replayability.
I like how the game is easy until the story ends after that everyone after that the game had no reason to make game easy but not raids not other content that is not related to story.
Here is my idea for after story content as we call it (end game content)

Skills on Gear:
Skills on gear is not a new system it is one of the main pillars of other gaming genres.
We have 3 main patches x,0 x,3 x,5
Use it as a starting gear system when moving from X,1 to X,3 increase Item level.
Gearset have skills that attached to gear of equipped 3 pieces for example activate certain skill
Gear Skills examples:

Tanks: if HP below 50% increase tenacity by 20%.
Melee DPS: if 5 positional done right next 3 GCD will have 20% direct hit.
Magical DPS: if casting downtime is < 5 second in 1 min increase determination.
Range DPS: For every successful ranged attack within the optimal range (25-30 yalms), gain a stacking buff that increases damage dealt by 2% (max 5 stacks). This encourages staying within the optimal range for maximum damage output.
Healer: When a party member drops below 50% HP, your next single-target heal (like Cure or Cure II) on them will also apply a Regen effect that heals them for an additional 10% of their max HP over 10 seconds. (Provides reactive healing support)


Elemental weapons:
in game we gave 8 elements: Wind, Water, Fire, Lightning, Ice, Stone, Dark, Light

light and dark are special elements
dark counter 3 elements which is: Wind, Water, Stone
light counter 3 elements which is: Fire, Lightning, Ice
Job abilities doesn't effect from elements what is to be affected is boss damage bonuses

for example shiva is Ice element,
if you pick Ice weapon against her you will do 95% damage which is 5% less
if you pick fire element it will do 110% damage
if something like water it will do 105% damage
else will 100% which is normal percentage.

weapons will drop from various content in the game I will explain below:


How to farm gearsets?
Contents we have:
- Fates (first patch)
Fates are meant to be easy content; I call it a tutorial for expansion, and it is the first content after story people usually do.
Fates gives currency and loot box that can give gear.
Fates gives first gear that gives additional effects that is more defensive example:
o If hp above 50% increase defense by 15% for 10 sec.
o Element resistance (I will explain in stats).

- Hunts (first patch)
Hunts is basically a boss fight with no mechanics just a DPS check so all people know actually how to do combos without simplifying job design.
Hunts gives first gear that gives additional effects that is more offensive example:
o If hp above 50% increase crit rate by 15%.
o Element resistance (I will explain in stats).
- Extreme trail (Second Patch)
will give 2 Weapons with different element example: fire, lightning, wind, earth, ice and water
- Variant Dungeon (Second Patch)
will give 2 Weapons with different element example: fire, lightning, wind, earth, ice and water
- Alliance Raid (Second Patch)
will give 2 Weapons with different element example: fire, lightning, wind, earth, ice and water
- Normal Raids (Second Patch)
Add augment to improve Fates and Hunts Gear
- Savage Raid (Third Patch)
Give new gear that has epic augment and last boss will be 2 weapon with different elements (Dark, Light)
- Unreal: Give cosmetic (mount / housing/minion) (Third Patch)


this design is just an example but it keeps player coming and actually want to play the game after finishing story + content.

please let me know your opinion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tunda

this design is just an example but it keeps player coming and actually want to play the game after finishing story + content.

please let me know your opinion

---

Just sounds like a version of WoW's gear system, but with fates and hunts instead of M+ and raids. People are just going to grind for whatever is meta so these type of gearing systems are an illusion of choice.

i am not here for horizontal progression i am here for vertical.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gortys

Just sounds like a version of WoW's gear system, but with fates and hunts instead of M+ and raids. People are just going to grind for whatever is meta so these type of gearing systems are an illusion of choice.

---

I didn't play WoW before and I don't know their systems..
I play other RPG games and other PvE genres,

I have seen games Like monster hunter which is implementing this system and it is very successful,
If there is a problem of "Illusion of choice" then it is implementation problem

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Musashidon

i am not here for horizontal progression i am here for vertical.

---

good then u have the current system enjoy it

I would just like better rewards. Or even rewards after you reach max level that could be earned with the XP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tunda

After reaching level 100 I think it would be silly if we just increase 10 levels each expansion so I have imagined a progression system that I think could improve endgame:

All character will reach level 100 and I believe it is time to stop increasing the cap and introduce a new system that will change game vertical progression to partially horizontal progression, improving replayability.
...

please let me know your opinion

---

This sounds like it was taken from another game where it doesn't work, also see the original relic quest where you had to collect 75 alexandrite, 12 atmas, 8 books with like 30 some odd fights/dungeons to do each.

Like what I want is there to stop being "5 new sets of gear" per expansion that are largely thrown away in favor of the tomes/raid gear. Like how many people used the relic armor? (the only armor that has a logical class lock)

What I would like is that they flatten the gear creep. Instead of 5 new sets of disposable gear for the expansion and another 7 for the raids, only put out one new gear set for the expansion and one for each raid set. Let Square-Enix make these gear sets have individual identities like the relic gear instead of being grouped into 5 job roles.

Then ripping a page out of the original relic quests, make the pieces of gear have an EXP curve on them. Fighting with each piece of gear adds experience to them like the "spiritbond" and then it gains additional ilevel ranks, and getting the glowing/sparkles effects when they have maxed out. None of this hunting down easy trash mobs, simply using the gear to fight equal-or-higher mobs is enough. Experience is only gained on the gear if you do expert dungeons or raids at synced.

While a gear overhaul to make it more interesting would be great, I think just increasing the ilvl steps would give people some extra goals.

Use more xx5 ilvl gear to bridge gaps and mix the secondary stats more, improve secondary stats so that speed isn't hindrance to most Jobs etc.

Eventually allow stuff like upgrading Alliance raid pieces with Savage tomes for alternate secondary stat versions of savage level gear or make it ever just slightly better to make alliance raids more worthwhile than running once for them and to keep savage bit mroe alive during the off-patches. There's lot's of options.

Just gerenally having different paths to gear from long-ish basic grinds to combination of different stuff. You could give some extra utility to crafters, even if it requires expert recipes to further tweak gear obtained from different places.

I actually think some modicum of horizontal progression in XIV would help.
I'd at least like for old gear to be upgradable to match current new gear- like, an old relic weapon that you can enhance to the current ilv by doing current content.
This would give you many options for gear instead of the current "savage or tomestone" dichotomy we've had for ages.
Some people here are echoing that sentiment.
I also think there are some inoffensive traits gear could have, like adding an extra gapcloser charge or lower the cooldown of swiftcast by 10s in exchange for some raw stats.
I don't want them to go crazy with traits, but minor things like that might provide situational utility in some fights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gortys

People are just going to grind for whatever is meta so these type of gearing systems are an illusion of choice.

---

It depends. In GW2 and FFXI, there are different metas for different roles for different content. And experimenting with them is fun.

Also, like, illusions are fun. Do you not like illusions? It's a video game, it's all illusory. It's just electrons.

I dont think your proposal works really and someone else mentioned.
Also are you aware how much work it would be to go back and add elemental properties to each enemy in the game?

From what we currently know CBU3 doesnt want to add more levels so level 100 is the End. thats true.
if they stick with it is diffrent story but currently thats were we are. But while Yoshida didnt say much the new progression seems very much not Item based, they spoke about talents, skill points and ability modifications.
Considering Higher Numbers is what they want to avoid because they dont want a second numbercrush i think Items will have a shallow progression from then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayalu

I dont think your proposal works really and someone else mentioned.
Also are you aware how much work it would be to go back and add elemental properties to each enemy in the game?

---

I feel like the OP just posts any new topic they can think of the moment one of their threads isn't on the first page without much thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

This sounds like it was taken from another game where it doesn't work, also see the original relic quest where you had to collect 75 alexandrite, 12 atmas, 8 books with like 30 some odd fights/dungeons to do each.

Like what I want is there to stop being "5 new sets of gear" per expansion that are largely thrown away in favor of the tomes/raid gear. Like how many people used the relic armor? (the only armor that has a logical class lock)

What I would like is that they flatten the gear creep. Instead of 5 new sets of disposable gear for the expansion and another 7 for the raids, only put out one new gear set for the expansion and one for each raid set. Let Square-Enix make these gear sets have individual identities like the relic gear instead of being grouped into 5 job roles.

Then ripping a page out of the original relic quests, make the pieces of gear have an EXP curve on them. Fighting with each piece of gear adds experience to them like the "spiritbond" and then it gains additional ilevel ranks, and getting the glowing/sparkles effects when they have maxed out. None of this hunting down easy trash mobs, simply using the gear to fight equal-or-higher mobs is enough. Experience is only gained on the gear if you do expert dungeons or raids at synced.

---

I don't like how each patch we throw our gear.. if every expansion I think it is fair..

why not just experiment some kind of gearing system that could implement replayability? i think that would be awesome..

I think each major patch their should be item level increase but not every patch.. I think it is silly and lazy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayalu

I dont think your proposal works really and someone else mentioned.
Also are you aware how much work it would be to go back and add elemental properties to each enemy in the game?

From what we currently know CBU3 doesnt want to add more levels so level 100 is the End. thats true.
if they stick with it is diffrent story but currently thats were we are. But while Yoshida didnt say much the new progression seems very much not Item based, they spoke about talents, skill points and ability modifications.
Considering Higher Numbers is what they want to avoid because they dont want a second numbercrush i think Items will have a shallow progression from then.

---

not for each enemy.. just for the next content..

skill points and talent tree is the worst idea that could have been done to FFXIV and I don't believe that it would work..

for example:
if you play monk and there is 2 talent trees then 1 should be better even at 1% dps.. or gameplay will be the same.. at this point just do new job why bothering.

but if talent tree that will be implemented has "change role" I agree it would be better.

like playing monk as tank or as healer.. changing kit but same weapon.
or dark knight as DPS / machinist as tank (actual tank) that would work 100%.

but gearing currently is so replaceable sometimes I say to my self why farming new extreme?
just wait next tomestone.

that is my issue with the current system

If this is already implemented in gathering why not for battle jobs?

https://i.postimg.cc/B6CvSYx8/image.png

for balance?
I see how Warrior is balance currently with no gearsets which is the best tank in the game by far

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UNDEAD10000

I have to say big NO to this endgame idea because adding skills to the gear and element system to the weapons will cause massive amount of toxicity towards to players who don't have certain skills on the gear and don't use correct element on the weapon.

---

this argument will be countered by Item level.. which is already been locked in with party finder..

I can now create new party farming extreme and +700 item level can be joined only.. even though people with 690 Item level can clear it easy with no issues if they know mechanics.. isn't this toxicity? according to CBU 3 NO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tunda

Skills on Gear

---

I like the basic concept, but as for theming I'd feel better if it was the player acquiring legendary axes that bring an additional ability, or equipping a magic trinket, or installing socketing magic crystal into their weapon. Getting a legendary belt that passively heals you in Legion, or an Azerite armor shoulderpad that gives you a new ability in BFA felt weird. The MoP legendary cloaks were cool, but sadly chestpieces, cloaks, shoulderpads, and cloaks are all the one same package in FF14.

The above design style is how you end up with an item like Hyperthread Wristwraps or Corruptions like Twilight Devastation in WoW.

Expecting SE to do anything even remotely this creative is a pipe dream. They can’t even change up the leveling formula.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gortys

Just sounds like a version of WoW's gear system, but with fates and hunts instead of M+ and raids. People are just going to grind for whatever is meta so these type of gearing systems are an illusion of choice.

---

It takes all kinds of people. Some who care will follow the meta others won't. Games should not be designed for people who optimise the fun out of everything. Make a fun game first and then let people who care about it meta slave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tunda

If this is already implemented in gathering why not for battle jobs?

https://i.postimg.cc/B6CvSYx8/image.png

for balance?
I see how Warrior is balance currently with no gearsets which is the best tank in the game by far

---

That's a relic item (purple), that is literately the thing I said we should not do.
"Splendorous Tools", even to get there you need to do 7 types of grinding, and then of course DT comes out and now you gotta throw it away.

Zodiac: 8
Anima: 8
Eurekan: 16
Resistance: 6
Manderville: 4
Eurekan (Armor): 8
Resistance (Armor): 5
Mastercraft (Tools): 3
Skysteel (Tools): 6
Splendorous (Tools): 8

What happens when the next patch comes out? You throw these away, making it entirely pointless to ever even start the grind.
A much simpler scheme is to simply "level from use", weapons from fighting FATE/Dungeons that are equal or higher than the player
Armor, same.
Tools, is difficult to really establish because people would just grind out garbage to level them and then you get 200 people at the same mining node for a three months. Collectables suck, but it at least keeps people from just getting gated. But it makes the game's entire crafting and gathering completely pointless.

Anyway what I want to see is players able to just take whatever gear they like, stage 0 it's exactly the same as normal
Stage 10, it's the same ilevel as current tomes gear. If you really like that ilevel 130 gear and want it to glow like 690 gear, now you can.
Applying any kind of "prefix of (item name) suffix + X" just turns it into a multi-dimensional grind like the original relic weapons wound up being and then you threw them away in HW.

What I do not want to see are gear items turning into horizontal grind fests, because that always ends up destroying the game because most players can't keep up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

It depends. In GW2 and FFXI, there are different metas for different roles for different content. And experimenting with them is fun.

Also, like, illusions are fun. Do you not like illusions? It's a video game, it's all illusory. It's just electrons.

---

Honestly I was originally hoping that 1.0 would be XI 2.0 but yeah. I guess we are stuck with what we have?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xellith

Honestly I was originally hoping that 1.0 would be XI 2.0 but yeah. I guess we are stuck with what we have?

---

I've been thinking about this a lot, but modern MMOs experienced a harsh divergent evolution from classic MMOs like that.

FFXIV and WoW evolved to optimize themselves for instanced endgame raiding.

GW2 evolved to optimize a sense of exploration, progression, individuality, and a living world.

Hit me up, play with me some time :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

It takes all kinds of people. Some who care will follow the meta others won't. Games should not be designed for people who optimise the fun out of everything. Make a fun game first and then let people who care about it meta slave.

---

I agree about game design, but if horizontal level and or gearing systems were more "fun" there would be a lot more people who liked games with these systems, but that enjoyment in the MMO community seems to be an exception.

The thing about GW2 is that it's gear is still usable and you don't necessarily have to grind for better gear as you horizontally progress. LOTRO had similar gear where you may not need to replace your max level raiding gear for a couple of expansions - if you just replaced some "materia" (can't remember what it's called there) then you were on par with people with the latest gear.

What I read the OP as saying is that instead of new levels they would want new gear to grind for every expansion. Depending on what you enjoy doing in GW2, you can skip a year or two (or longer) and likely not have to replace your gear at all. But most MMO players see "new gear" as progression more than anything. The point is you can't copy one aspect of a game you like without considering the other aspects it affects and how the other MMO's system works as a whole.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gortys

I agree about game design, but if horizontal level and or gearing systems were more "fun" then I'd still be mainly playing GW2, ESO, or WoW.

The thing about GW2 is that it's gear is still usable and you don't necessarily have to grind for better gear as you horizontally progress. LOTRO had similar gear where you may not need to replace your max level raiding gear for a couple of expansions - if you just replaced some "materia" (can't remember what it's called there) then you were on par with people with the latest gear.

What I read the OP as saying is that instead of new levels they would want new gear to grind for every expansion. Depending on what you enjoy doing in GW2, you can skip a year or two (or longer) and likely not have to replace your gear at all. But most MMO players see "new gear" as progression more than anything. The point is you can't copy one aspect of a game you like without considering the other aspects it affects and how the other MMO's system works as a whole.

---

it is "grindy" but not that much..

Just implementing gearing system on fates that we already are doing..

for me I don't have a house and I am not interesting in houses what do i get from fates currency? a door? what should I do with it? i don't have house and I dont care about housing..

farming +100 fate for items are not usable by players like me..

the idea: "We already grinding Dawntrial just we don't like how items we get are not usable by most of us who don't own house and don't craft"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tunda

the idea: "We already grinding Dawntrial just we don't like how items we get are not usable by most of us who don't own house and don't craft"

---

I mean, you could look at what you get from fate grinding and then decide how it can be used either currently or in the future. The fact that you need gear to be all you get from content just proves my point that some only see new gear as viable rewards and no amount of horizontal progression will change that. Again, in GW2 I haven't changed my gear in quite a few years and every time I jump back in it is still viable. Because of that I can jump into new content rather than having to grind for gear. The content in GW2 gives the horizontal progression which increases stats.

Nobody is forcing anyone to grind fates. People hate this answer, but if you don't like certain content then you don't have to do it. I haven't finished grinding Fates in ShB and I likely won't. I don't do content just because a developer creates it. Gamers love to talk about accountability when raiding, but you are just as accountable for how you decide to consume the content or if you decide to not consume it at all.

They should just do it like FF11 and make an Ilvl cap increase, and actually make a better progression system, i don't wanna be stuck melding crit for the next 6 years, they've done the same formula for so long and it's just tiresome when games like FF11/WoW have skills and effects tied to their gear, but then they'll say "ah we can't do that because of the code" and people are like "ok mr Yoshida, ill take another serving of crit materia at level 110" it's an overused excuse that's made with tons of things that have been proven to be a lie.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IvoryHawk

They should just do it like FF11 and make an Ilvl cap increase, and actually make a better progression system, i don't wanna be stuck melding crit for the next 6 years, they've done the same formula for so long and it's just tiresome when games like FF11/WoW have skills and effects tied to their gear, but then they'll say "ah we can't do that because of the code" and people are like "ok mr Yoshida, ill take another serving of crit materia at level 110" it's an overused excuse that's made with tons of things that have been proven to be a lie.

---

It isn't a systems restriction. Relic weapons originally had special effects associated with them but the feature was removed later. We have literally had this in FFXIV before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigCheez

It isn't a systems restriction. Relic weapons originally had special effects associated with them but the feature was removed later. We have literally had this in FFXIV before.

---

The issue really is that we have no content where it's relevant.

XIV is first and foremost a visual novel, and after that it's built precariously for raiding. Every other thing you can do is molded so that the raid kit they designed can function in it. And raids are just "do damage" and "stand here". We can add elemental effects like blue mage or vampirism on gear, but it's not relevant to any content unless they create one where it's part of progression.

This is why deep dungeons, blue mage, and exploratory zones are the only parts of the game I enjoy anymore. It's the only place where there's a degree of fluidity and experimentation. Even then, the latest updates on all three of those have been leaning more and more rigid and raid-like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Musashidon

i am not here for horizontal progression i am here for vertical.

---

Well you are playing the wrong game then, this game is pretty much flat progression. You go up 10 levels, it means nothing, now you are back at the start of the road doing the same shit you did the last expansion but your number just says 100 now. We already know exactly when everything releases, what patch number it will be, none of your "vertical" progression gear even matters you just get the next released thing and boom you can do everything again, its all just fake numbers that mean nothing at all. This game would be exactly the same if you just removed the gear and just made it so you couldn't do dungeon 2 unless you did dungeon 1 first. /shrug

Do you have an example of vertical progression that isn't effectively flat, Wolferey?

My understanding of the idea is that everyone is effectively put on a treadmill going nowhere. I don't like that, but I'm not sure it can be done differently.

I mean we are, welcome, you've discovered why vertical progression sucks, with time literally everyone is the same and going nowhere. This game REALLY have you going nowhere, since you can play all jobs and do everything on 1 character. Horizontal would mean that you picked path a, someone else picked path b, we are both lvl 100 but different.

Here, let me phrase this better:

Vertical progression is prone to wasting your time. The only way forward is to level up your classes/whatever thing that needs level, to gather enough material to craft the thing etc.
Horizontal progression is prone to meta and choice paralysis. You got path A, B and C, you don't know what is best and everyone says B is best.
You can also combine both, pick path A, now you gotta level it up 10 times, get 10 skill points etc.

Both have their pro's and con's, Vertical feels nice when you feel the time wasted is good, i.e. it has good content to make those levels meaningful to you. Be it a good story, an engaging dungeon, cool looking gear etc. Horizontal feels nice when the path you pick fits your playstyle - if you like the zoomy zoomy swish swosh skills and path A gives you more of those its perfect. Vertical feels horrible when you feel the time wasted is bad, the dungeon is a slog to run through, the XP you need vs. what you get is way too slow etc. and Horizontal in the same way that its not giving you what you want or thought it was, or you feel forced to pick it because its better.

I'm not gonna sit here and say I got a good answer to what is best, I like both so a good combo of both in some way is good for me, but the reason why I call this game flat is because there is barely any vertical progression to do. Getting something to level 100 is just following the MSQ, you get all the gear you need to go through it, grabbing the materials and crafting something doesn't take much time at all, you'd have to be so incredibly slow in this game to make the vertical progression mean much at all really. I had vertical progression for roughly (checks clock) 5 days.

...But once you reach level 100, its basically flat. Do any content, get tomes/do alliance/normal raid, that tiny ilvl bump in the road is gone. That savage gear you got is mostly used in Ultimates and even then its not something you level or anything, its just a guaranteed drop you roll on. Relic weapon is worse than pretty much everything until the end of the expansion. You are on the least bumpy road now for roughly 2.5 years until the next expansion releases.

Again, not saying its bad, flat is good too. It means to progress in any hard content (ex, savage, criterion etc.), you gotta have the skill and patience to do it. Anyone can beat savage in crafted gear because its flat, you just need to learn the fight, get skilled doing your rotation and knowing the timeline, and have the time and patience for it. Many of us like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolferey

Here, let me phrase this better:

Vertical progression is prone to wasting your time. The only way forward is to level up your classes/whatever thing that needs level, to gather enough material to craft the thing etc.
Horizontal progression is prone to meta and choice paralysis. You got path A, B and C, you don't know what is best and everyone says B is best.
You can also combine both, pick path A, now you gotta level it up 10 times, get 10 skill points etc.

Both have their pro's and con's, Vertical feels nice when you feel the time wasted is good, i.e. it has good content to make those levels meaningful to you. Be it a good story, an engaging dungeon, cool looking gear etc. Horizontal feels nice when the path you pick fits your playstyle - if you like the zoomy zoomy swish swosh skills and path A gives you more of those its perfect. Vertical feels horrible when you feel the time wasted is bad, the dungeon is a slog to run through, the XP you need vs. what you get is way too slow etc. and Horizontal in the same way that its not giving you what you want or thought it was, or you feel forced to pick it because its better.

I'm not gonna sit here and say I got a good answer to what is best, I like both so a good combo of both in some way is good for me, but the reason why I call this game flat is because there is barely any vertical progression to do. Getting something to level 100 is just following the MSQ, you get all the gear you need to go through it, grabbing the materials and crafting something doesn't take much time at all, you'd have to be so incredibly slow in this game to make the vertical progression mean much at all really. I had vertical progression for roughly (checks clock) 5 days.

...But once you reach level 100, its basically flat. Do any content, get tomes/do alliance/normal raid, that tiny ilvl bump in the road is gone. That savage gear you got is mostly used in Ultimates and even then its not something you level or anything, its just a guaranteed drop you roll on. Relic weapon is worse than pretty much everything until the end of the expansion. You are on the least bumpy road now for roughly 2.5 years until the next expansion releases.

Again, not saying its bad, flat is good too. It means to progress in any hard content (ex, savage, criterion etc.), you gotta have the skill and patience to do it. Anyone can beat savage in crafted gear because its flat, you just need to learn the fight, get skilled doing your rotation and knowing the timeline, and have the time and patience for it. Many of us like that.

---

I see the current system that it all in vertical which is done very badly.

I feel it should be 50% vatical and 50% horizontal i don't like GW2 approach.

for example patches:
X.0 Vertical
X.1 Horizontal
X.2 Vertical
X.3 Horizontal
X.4 Vertical
X.5 Horizontal ( which will be major 6 months before new expansion releases)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tunda

for example patches:
X.0 Vertical
X.1 Horizontal
X.2 Vertical
X.3 Horizontal
X.4 Vertical
X.5 Horizontal ( which will be major 6 months before new expansion releases)

---

I don't think you understand what we're talking about.

In GW2, horizontal progression isn't "catch up" gear, we're talking about different build tools, different ways to interact with the world, etc. You would be able to say "No, actually, I don't want the dumb butt fury system on my monk build." There are different gear types that you might want for different builds, but it's been the same set of stat distributions for a long time. If you geared up eight years ago, you're probably still geared up for any build you want to use.

To put it in FFXIV terms, you're kind of asking for a new well-designed, differentiated job every odd number patch. You're asking for collectable alternatives to flight (which, why would you ever not use in ffxiv? it's literally god mode with no drawbacks). You're asking for a brand new stat or skill bonus to be added that changes the game up dramatically (and not just -0.3s GCD for a full SkS build). That's more than literally anyone is asking for.

Endwalker definitely killed any sense of love I had for this game, and just thinking about the lackluster progression available to me, walking that treadmill for another 3 years, kind of makes me roll my eyes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

I don't think you understand what we're talking about.

In GW2, horizontal progression isn't "catch up" gear, we're talking about different build tools, different ways to interact with the world, etc. You would be able to say "No, actually, I don't want the dumb butt fury system on my monk build." There are different gear types that you might want for different builds, but it's been the same set of stat distributions for a long time. If you geared up eight years ago, you're probably still geared up for any build you want to use.

To put it in FFXIV terms, you're kind of asking for a new well-designed, differentiated job every odd number patch. You're asking for collectable alternatives to flight (which, why would you ever not use in ffxiv? it's literally god mode with no drawbacks). You're asking for a brand new stat or skill bonus to be added that changes the game up dramatically (and not just -0.3s GCD for a full SkS build). That's more than literally anyone is asking for.

Endwalker definitely killed any sense of love I had for this game, and just thinking about the lackluster progression available to me, walking that treadmill for another 3 years, kind of makes me roll my eyes.

---

There are benefits for horizontal and vertical progressions..

there should be a limit where stat can go or it will be a mess to balance

we want both but in a balance way,

currently I am farming fates for leveling and have currency to exchange..
I have nothing to exchange with..

I have no house.. no crafting and no interest of crafting.. nothing..
this currency is meaningless for me and should have some value for people like mw
there should be some kind of horizontal progression here.

but not that we are using the same build there should be meta shaking changing how new gear skill to see how things can interact with each other..

just to let you know Bloodbath is so broken with Viper but it is almost none existence with jobs like ninja because it can be applied with jobs with physical attacks.

this is kind of skills we need to interact with but without using a button to use.. it needs some activation that could improve how we can plat the jobs and shake the meta which is existing currently in 1 boring form.