Stop it with the forced stealth

I don't know if this has been already said before but stop it with the stealth already, it was bad in endwalker and is bad in Dawntrail, this is not a stealth game, nobody plays this game for the stealth and it doesn't matter how much you improve it is never going to be good, the quests are annoying and tedious. If you are going to keep those quests then stop forcing them on us in the MSQ and the aether current quests.

I wouldn't mind it once or maybe twice an expansion. But almost every instance feels ham-fisted and like it's being used as padding.

My only gripe with the stealth sections is not being teleported to the start when you fail and having to make a long trek, especially since it's unclear how far back you can actually tail the character so they may turn around at the worst time

Least it's some attempt at spicing up the quests.

Still, more solo instances would have been better. Should have had one during the 96 cutscene, rather than having the cutscene where we just stand and stare.

They just need to add an option if want to skip them or do them. Just give an exp. bonus if you decide to do them.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Least it's some attempt at spicing up the quests.

Still, more solo instances would have been better. Should have had one during the 96 cutscene, rather than having the cutscene where we just stand and stare.

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Don't forget when we just take a step forward menacingly when the bad guys take a hostage for the 4987th time instead of ignoring cover/rescue/Bahamut conveniently located on our hotbar.

But y'know, we can't have agency because it detracts from Wuk Lamat's screentime

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

Don't forget when we just take a step forward menacingly when the bad guys take a hostage for the 4987th time instead of ignoring cover/rescue/Bahamut conveniently located on our hotbar.

But y'know, we can't have agency because it detracts from Wuk Lamat's screentime

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That part should have been a solo instance, or had us punch him like the other gecko did.

TBH, I was yearning for more stealth instances, or even the damned Spyglass, in each of the 6 hours of semi-mandatory cutscenes between gameplay...

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

My only gripe with the stealth sections is not being teleported to the start when you fail and having to make a long trek, especially since it's unclear how far back you can actually tail the character so they may turn around at the worst time

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Or when you fail it and have to start over and then when you finally complete it in the cutscene after you just walk right up to the guy and he's like "Oh I just like to sneak around for fun, I'm not doing anything bad".

Agreed, it's always a relief to me on an Endwalker replay to be through with the last stealth sequence, like "That's done, now I can relax", and then Dawntrail brings them back. They were a little less finicky here, so that was nice, but I'd prefer just no mandatory stealth at all, as said above, keep them out of the MSQ and the quasi-mandatory aether current quests (because there's no way we'll just not care about flying).
Stealth in games not built as stealth games basically never works. And for the few times it might be fun, maybe offer an optional stealth-based side quest. Like a Metal Gear Thancred quest line specifically for fun and for stealth enthusiasts without blocking main progression because you didn't stand behind the right tree again.

There was a grand total of like one of these stealth follow quests this Expansion that felt like it made sense.

Every other time I was like 'just let me beat the evil npc up for the info instead of following them.'

Now i want another "In from the cold" quest in Dawntrail just to see people cry here over it.

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Originally Posted by darkghost38

I don't know if this has been already said before but stop it with the stealth already, it was bad in endwalker and is bad in Dawntrail, this is not a stealth game, nobody plays this game for the stealth and it doesn't matter how much you improve it is never going to be good, the quests are annoying and tedious. If you are going to keep those quests then stop forcing them on us in the MSQ and the aether current quests.

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IMO, the problem is it doesn't feel like a "stealth" event, it feels like a "follow behind" as opposed to "lead a NPC around like a lost puppy", while I don't really care for either of these, I think the implementation just isn't very good for both.

For "X NPC is now following you", please, no more instructions about how to find them if you lose them. Put that in the journal log, cause it's making me click several times while I roll my eyes at seeing the instructions for the nth time. For the Stealth, actually make it more fun please. Like carry a box or a shrub or something to hide in. Most of these sequences feel like "follow behind just outside the white glow" now, and seem to serve no actual purpose but to make you slowly walk to the next area.

I am a believer in the "don't mix genres" . I want to play a MMORPG that has a good story. I don't want to have to suddenly play a no-stakes minigame that suddenly slows the pace down.

I mean, the follow thing is a bit tedious. Still I get it that if they don't do it, people do tend to complain "Why is it always talk to npc, talk to npc, kill a mob, talk to npc." Granted, talking to the npc usually is not a problem since story is so good.

This said, and putting aside cost effectiveness, obviously it'd be a lot more fun to have enemy encampment to sneak into - due to whatever reason, perhaps they have a hostage and you can't go in 'guns blazing'. In some situations it feels natural to follow someone, in others... honestly, a stare from a butcher like WoL (who did kill a lot of Garlemald soldiers and defeated quite a lot of beasts of all sorts) could be enough to make someone talk and solve the information gathering in much faster fashion - but the problem that they have is that it's too specific, giving WoL too much character and so they become less of a blank slate.

Lastly, while I am by no means a fan of 'stealth' in FF XIV, the DT iteration of it felt cleaner in execution than Endwalkers, there was less random 360 spins in middle of nowhere, with no cover after game said "stay close" so it was not nearly as annoying.

Yea, I'm not a fan of this. It's annoying to be near the end then have DF ready goes off and end up having to redo the entire walk again...

Only joy I get is using Namazu Party Float, making as much noise as possible.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

Don't forget when we just take a step forward menacingly when the bad guys take a hostage for the 4987th time instead of ignoring cover/rescue/Bahamut conveniently located on our hotbar.

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Bahamut

You do realize we're supposed to PROTECT/RESCUE the hostage ... not atomize it. :'D

BTW: you'd be surprised about how often police is condemned to do the "menacing stare" in real life in order to not endanger hostages in such situations.

What pisses me off infinitely more is that my Kitten, supposedly a powerful and gifted White Mage, always just stands there like a derp whenever some NPC is wounded while Alphinaud etc. get to do the actual healing. UGH.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

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Bahamut

You do realize we're supposed to PROTECT/RESCUE the hostage ... not atomize it. :'D

BTW: you'd be surprised about how often police is condemned to do the "menacing stare" in real life in order to not endanger hostages in such situations.

What pisses me off infinitely more is that my Kitten, supposedly a powerful and gifted White Mage, always just stands there like a derp whenever some NPC is wounded while Alphinaud etc. get to do the actual healing. UGH.

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yeah, that healing things has been ongoing since Heavenward.. yep, your dying.. if ONLY there was a healer standing right there that could do something... if ONLY someone could rez you.. oh well... bye.. been nice knowing you...

its like I wear a white dress just to prove my laundry detergent is superior or something.

I don't think any of it was that bad this expansion.

The Urianger one at Lv84 was 100% the worst one though. You tail him and at the end he literally tells you he is glad that you followed him. What. ?????

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/L..._to_Old_Tricks

The story justification for these stealth quests are hilariously bad.

I actually personally like the mechanics of these quests but man, they don't know how to fit these into the story.

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Originally Posted by lolnotacat

I wouldn't mind it once or maybe twice an expansion. But almost every instance feels ham-fisted and like it's being used as padding.

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to be fair its only every instance because everything else are cutscenes

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

For "X NPC is now following you", please, no more instructions about how to find them if you lose them. Put that in the journal log, cause it's making me click several times while I roll my eyes at seeing the instructions for the nth time. For the Stealth, actually make it more fun please. Like carry a box or a shrub or something to hide in. Most of these sequences feel like "follow behind just outside the white glow" now, and seem to serve no actual purpose but to make you slowly walk to the next area.

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Square Enix, or maybe specifically CBU3, do not understand what accessibility is or how it works. So they just put check marks on an arbitrary accessibility features checklist. People who struggle with figuring out the following quests will NOT be helped by a wall of text detailing how to find an NPC again. The reason why people messed up on stealth quests is NOT because the NPCs weren't surrounded by flashing, blinking, blinking spinning things. It was because the stealth logic, detection distance, etc, do not intuitively make sense. Because the devs also don't know how stealth works. But in the end they just throw random changes at the wall and hope they stick. Meanwhile we have to suffer these ridiculous, eye cancer innovations.

I wonder, does the dev team ever think about how come other games never have these issues? Why Elden Ring does not need to put an orange "danger zone" circle around the bosses? Why games like Last of Us that received a million awards for accessibility features do NOT have any of this nonsense, and instead have actual accessibility features developed by actual experts, who did actual user testing to ensure their solutions SOLVE problems instead of add more?

Probably not. And until the devs properly sit down and think about what is actually wrong with their "stealth" quest implementation, nothing will change.

I will never forgive assassins creed for making this garbage mechanic a thing other games copy

I was doing one for an aether current where I had to follow a Hrothgar. Right where I assume the end is he stopped for a solid 2-3 minutes without moving or talking before I figured maybe I need to approach him to "confront" him or something. I guess he was just bugged because I immediately failed it. So I rage quit and moved on. Super annoying I'd rather talk to Wuk Lamat.

Yes, we don't want any more stealth.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Least it's some attempt at spicing up the quests.

Still, more solo instances would have been better. Should have had one during the 96 cutscene, rather than having the cutscene where we just stand and stare.

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me, a bard at the time: oh I can shoot arrows! Let's do it >:3
the game: [unable to act at this time]

I believe stealth scenes could potentially be done right. Remember that duty with thancred infiltrating Garlean base in Endwalker? That was fun.

As a person who is awful at stealth games I had to ask a friend to help me complete one of them because the first time was so upsetting. If I fail at LEAST send me back to the start instead of making me do the walk of shame. It nearly made me quit.

The questing is terrible anyway. It has been for years, but these quests take the cake on this. They're almost as awful as when you make us play as npcs.

I don't mind them in a vacuum, but they tend to over commit on using "the new gimmick" and treat it like it's a core gameplay feature (like jobs, or crafting are), rather than a narratively appropriate tool to convey a specific feeling.
There was a point where I was like "You know, I don't mind these tailing quests so long as they don't over use them". This was the first time in the expansion one had shown up... And then they made me do another one right after I finished the first, and the bad taste returned to my mouth...

It often feels at times like the story is being forced to come up with a situation where we need to stalk someone to fill some "mandatory low-stress gameplay" quota as to not step on the toes of the "fun demanding gamplay" that's meant to be quarantined in instanced content while still having the player technically do something.

Like if they were used in a way that made sense (person we're tailing is strong or has a way to get away that our gap closers/mobility tools can't catch up to, or has a hostage) and had an interactive failure state (have to fight them in the open and avoid causing too much collateral damage, a chase sequence that's like cart racing on foot, have to find a way to deal with the hostage situation NOW) that would at least feel better than "tiptoe behind that lvl 1 guy you could just pick up and shake down for information" or "Follow behind The Problem but DON'T KILL THEM NOW! Surely they have information on them that'll lead you to dismantling their plans after you kill them in an ambush, but no you have to wait until they move themselves to a WAYY move advantageous position so that they can have a cutscene to laugh at you and then disappear"

Also tailing missions, while related to them, aren't exactly "stealth missions" imo. Stealth missions have more freedom with how you solve problems, while tailing missions are more linear and offer less room for agency. Open ended problem solving vs binary pass/fail solutions and all that. I loved in from the cold (the original implementation), and while something with that level of narrative intensity doesn't belong in DT's story, it's a far more interesting sequence than "go hide behind 4 trees".

I'm of two minds.

It's GOOD in that they're almost the only interactive moments in the MSQ. I would rather be doing stealth missions than walk from point A to B.

It's BAD because they serve almost no narrative purpose, they're not particularly engaging (just stand still until the npc turns around, then run to the next hiding spot), and they take a while. Apparently some people have failed them as well, but I really don't think the difficulty is anything to complain about.

Deep Dungeon solo is a better stealth experience in this game, even "In from the Cold" was a better experience.
I wouldn't have minded the stealth sections in DT, as bad as they were in EW if they didn't put an obnoxious AOE cone, marker and circle on the target, it's like they think their entire player base has the cognitive functionality of a toddler when in reality it's a very vocal minority.

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

I'm of two minds.

It's GOOD in that they're almost the only interactive moments in the MSQ. I would rather be doing stealth missions than walk from point A to B.

It's BAD because they serve almost no narrative purpose, they're not particularly engaging (just stand still until the npc turns around, then run to the next hiding spot), and they take a while. Apparently, some people have failed them as well, but I really don't think the difficulty is anything to complain about.

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I failed an ather current one like 4 or 5 times. The npc kept seeing me through a tree. But I chalk it up to bad implementation rather than it just not working. I should've reported it, but it was so frustrating, and I just wanted to be done with it. I powered through it. I'm not even a stranger to stealth. I can play and have played European Extreme Metal Gear. I know my stuff, but when they have see through objects laser vision, what do you do?

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Originally Posted by darkghost38

I don't know if this has been already said before but stop it with the stealth already, it was bad in endwalker and is bad in Dawntrail, this is not a stealth game, nobody plays this game for the stealth and it doesn't matter how much you improve it is never going to be good, the quests are annoying and tedious. If you are going to keep those quests then stop forcing them on us in the MSQ and the aether current quests.

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I totally agree with you. I hated them in EW & hate them in DT.

I wouldn't really call it stealth, more of a stalking simulator.