Game Difficulty level 100

level 100 dungeon difficulty is equal to difficulty of level 50 dungeon..

I think 50 levels is enough for people to make things a bit challenging, in shadowbringers there is some attempts to make dungeon feels like challenge and I like the approach but in endwalker everything is easy even easier than shadowbringers.

I have a concern that DT will have same difficulty as other expansions, please make game more challenging.

I think in theory, level 90 dungeons are more difficult. I mean you have stepping in AoEs giving you Doom in a lot of 90 dungeons. You also have it not telegraphing a lot of things with orange aoes and instead expecting us to just figure it out based on where the boss is looking or environmental clues. There is also the boss that shoots lasers that involves observing the environment to identify the safe spot. They also aren't afraid to make us do a little bit of maths, like observing the order water spurts will come out in Dohn Mheg or the order the floor will explode in the second boss of Troia. It's just that since we farm this level 90 dungeon for 8 months to a year, it quickly becomes "easy" and gets boring to keep doing it to cap tomestones. To the point hunts are genuinely more fun.

So part of the solution would just be merging Expert Roulette with Level 90 Roulette to provide more variety.

The other issue is Yoshi-P said the 2 sidequest expert dungeons will be more challenging. He's not afraid to make the sidequest ones more intense. The problem with that is we only get 2 in the entire expansion. They discontinued sidequest dungeons. We could say "well they make variant dungeons". But these are not something you get in expert roulette or farmed for as great a duration of time. Which is perhaps part of the problem of separating this dungeon system from regular dungeons. Variant dungeons are also flat out designed to be soloable and to ignore the need for the trinity.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

level 100 dungeon difficulty is equal to difficulty of level 50 dungeon..

I think 50 levels is enough for people to make things a bit challenging, in shadowbringers there is some attempts to make dungeon feels like challenge and I like the approach but in endwalker everything is easy even easier than shadowbringers.

I have a concern that DT will have same difficulty as other expansions, please make game more challenging.

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What are you basing this claim on considering no one has access to any level 100 dungeons yet?

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Originally Posted by Tunda

level 100 dungeon difficulty is equal to difficulty of level 50 dungeon..

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Some lvl 50 dungeons are harder than lvl 90 ones. Just try to do full pull before first boss in Amdapor Keep. Most healers who want to strike because healing is 2 easy wont be able to heal tank with what they got at this level.
Another great example is Pharos Sirius first boss where still more parties wipe than in any other dungeon.
In general it would be hard for them to make current dungeons harder, since all they can do is to reuse all old mechanics and just serve them to us in new coat of paint, may be new paint, but still same mechanic that you will figure right away. Only way to make dungeons harder right now would be making trash in between bosses harder and at same time removing wall to wall meta and making bosses fights way more fast in term of using mechanics. Still it will never happen because Yoshi want them to be easy and he dont want people to lose more than 15-20 minutes on them.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I think 50 levels is enough for people to make things a bit challenging.

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Even though I agree, I know its not true. You will change your mind when you will see similar situations: 70 dungeon with tank that don't know what tank stance is, lvl 90 dungeon with tank using mitigations on bosses instead on full pulls, lvl 70 dungeon with bard not using single song or a single dot. I could give you way more situations like this but I guess you get the point, and no I didnt make any of these up. A lot of people playing this game are not the best players, to the point they can not read a single skill tooltip while going through whole story. And a lot of them dont care that they wasting not only yours but also theirs time by not giving even 1% care.

It's quite funny that the game actually gets easier as you progress through the levels (I think they probably peaked around 70 where Ivalice raids were designed).

The sad part is that if they hadn't nerf all the content up to 50, they'd be the most challenging content in the game lol, like the invisible coin-counter attacks in Aurum Vale or even any of the WoD alliance bosses, I still see lots of deaths at some of the parts even.

Meanwhile we had 0 issues during day 1 dungeons or Thaleia alliance raid (seemingly advertised as the same difficulty as Orbonne no less!).
And it's definitely because the game really babies you in every single battle where the boss is already at 60% after 2 "tutorial" attacks...

But then they increase the "difficulty" by adding cheap dooms/one-shots and no-rez mechanics where you basically have no chance of getting better unless you wipe and restart. It's either baby mode or savage mode in this game

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Originally Posted by Shikiseki

It's quite funny that the game actually gets easier as you progress through the levels

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Its because you already seen it and done this. They cant come up with any new mechanics that would be suited for normal mode content, other than reusing and mixing what we already seen.

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Originally Posted by Rikka_Chu

Its because you already seen it and done this. They cant come up with any new mechanics that would be suited for normal mode content, other than reusing and mixing what we already seen.

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It's not just that, Labyrinth of the Ancients has a trash mob that occasionally causes mass deaths when the tank doesn't point it away while Myths of the Realm has nothing close.

Stormblood had funny prime number bot, tsunami ewers, and time explosion. Endwalker does... what, I'd say the scales but they always get skipped now, a rotate arena mech that that gives you 7 years to resolve it?

I cannot stress this enough: normal difficulty content is meant to be chill and accessible and it is not designed to make you feel like a special, elite snowflake that is better than the chaff of gamer scum that surrounds you. That's just not the purpose of normal difficulty DF content. That's not to say that you need to like it, but if what you want is more difficult normal content, it might make sense to just find a game that you like more.

Probably won't increase difficulty. Level skip potions were a mistake and when they inevitably put lvl90 Potions(which is just WoW level boost) on the Mog Station that'll basically cement that all content will have to be easy at all levels. Monkey's Paw.

So you'll run into the situation that you have players all the way up to level 90(currently 80) that will potentially be Sprouts and have little experience with the game.

On one hand SE will make a lot of money off of P2W on the other hand you introduce a pool of inexperienced players.

You are kind of not proving me wrong. Like I said, everything been seen and done. Neither of mentioned mechanics was really hard. Not pointing ads by tank is not mechanic being hard, but tank not paying attention. Math boss should not be difficult to anyone who can add to 4 etc. Not all mechanics are made to be difficult in the first place, but to be fun. And like I mentioned before they have limited number of possibilities for adding new mechanics that can be relatively challenging for easy difficulty content without using what we already seen (yes alliance raid and normal raid are easy content). Unless you would like some f***ery like giving people 10 different debuff, making them figure out what they need to do with em, but for this we got savage :D

PS. Scales were not even remotely hard, they sure were kind of unique, but I personally didn't see a single wipe since day 1, that wasn't done just by person trolling :D

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

I cannot stress this enough: normal difficulty content is meant to be chill and accessible and it is not designed to make you feel like a special, elite snowflake that is better than the chaff of gamer scum that surrounds you. That's just not the purpose of normal difficulty DF content. That's not to say that you need to like it, but if what you want is more difficult normal content, it might make sense to just find a game that you like more.

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Noone wants it to be super hardcore mode but at this point, it feels like playing a mario game without any pits or enemies. At least add a tiny gap here and there to learn and get better step by step - you have 1-89 levels before to increase the difficulty and yet the game feels exactly the same - All 89 stages have the same difficulty. Even mobile puzzle games start with level 1 that you can complete in 1 second and then slowly ramp up in difficulty where it might take you a minute to solve.

Normal difficulty should be accessible enough but not constantly feel like you're playing easy mode where the game holds your hand so you never ever get to stumble and improve how to walk on your own 2 feet

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

I cannot stress this enough: normal difficulty content is meant to be chill and accessible and it is not designed to make you feel like a special, elite snowflake that is better than the chaff of gamer scum that surrounds you. That's just not the purpose of normal difficulty DF content. That's not to say that you need to like it, but if what you want is more difficult normal content, it might make sense to just find a game that you like more.

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The point is not feeling elite, the point is content demanding the players are at least half awake. There are some Normal fights that are actually challenging. But there are also many that are a complete snoozefest. Wierdly, the fights seem to get easier as you progress through the game, instead of harder.

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Originally Posted by Rikka_Chu

Even though I agree, I know its not true. You will change your mind when you will see similar situations: 70 dungeon with tank that don't know what tank stance is, lvl 90 dungeon with tank using mitigations on bosses instead on full pulls, lvl 70 dungeon with bard not using single song or a single dot. I could give you way more situations like this but I guess you get the point, and no I didnt make any of these up. A lot of people playing this game are not the best players, to the point they can not read a single skill tooltip while going through whole story. And a lot of them dont care that they wasting not only yours but also theirs time by not giving even 1% care.

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if someone is boosted as you say fukem i don't care just vote them or disband duty.. people are just tired of easy content in something related to story.. if someone is having a bad time learning a job go something like Bozja or do some fates.. you cannot just tell me that level 91 dungeon is easier than some level 50 dungeon..
PEOPLE DOING BOOSTING IS NOT MY PROBLEM AS SOMEONE WHO DO ALL DUNGEONS FROM LEVEL 15 TO 90
JUST DO ANOTHER QUEUE CALL IT BOOSTERS QUEUE AND MAKE MENTOR GO THEIR TO MAKE THEIR LIVE EASIER.

If I want to get relaxed I will do fates.. I will do Bozja.. I will do level 20 dungeons.. but bro not in 100

I can't tell how many times I slept in Endwalker dungeon

I guess last post for today. IMO dungeon difficulty itself inst a problem, the problem is lack of content diversity
In easy category we have: Dungeon's, Normal Raids, Alliance Raids, Variant Dungeons, Eureka, Bozja
In medium category we got: Absolutely nothing.
In Hard difficulty we got: Trials (even though its mixed bag, some of em can be considered hard, and some easy (like 5th trial of ew) so difficulty range can differ for trials)
In Very Hard difficulty we got: Savage Raids and Criterion Dungeons
In I dont have social like, I have no work and I sleep in my mom basement we got Ultimates, and Savage Criterion

Seems a lot but at end of the day it isn't. There should be also some harder dungeons that we could put in medium category that dont follow regular wall to wall and 3 bosses formula, then we should get separate tier of medium difficulty fast paced trials like barbaricia, or trials that dont follow regular formula of doing every single mechanic in order, and instead forcing players to adjust by spamming at them mechanics in random order (best example would be wol that had a lot of randomness)

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Originally Posted by Rikka_Chu

I guess last post for today. IMO dungeon difficulty itself inst a problem, the problem is lack of content diversity
In easy category we have: Dungeon's, Normal Raids, Alliance Raids, Variant Dungeons, Eureka, Bozja
In medium category we got: Absolutely nothing.
In Hard difficulty we got: Trials (even though its mixed bag, some of em can be considered hard, and some easy (like 5th trial of ew) so difficulty range can differ for trials)
In Very Hard difficulty we got: Savage Raids and Criterion Dungeons
In I dont have social like, I have no work and I sleep in my mom basement we got Ultimates, and Savage Criterion

Seems a lot but at end of the day it isn't. There should be also some harder dungeons that we could put in medium category that dont follow regular wall to wall and 3 bosses formula, then we should get separate tier of medium difficulty fast paced trials like barbaricia, or trials that dont follow regular formula of doing every single mechanic in order, and instead forcing players to adjust by spamming at them mechanics in random order (best example would be wol that had a lot of randomness)

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I agree but first let's define what is easy?
Easy - is content where you can play one handed or play on second monitor while watching netflix.
Normal - No high damage but mechanics are important to get it done.
Hard - High Damage and Mechanics are important to get it done.
Very Hard - which is ultimate basically.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

if someone is boosted as you say fukem

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Damn, it was supposed to be my last post for todaybut lets do 1 more.I never said they were boosted, and I can tell you right away all these examples were of people who were not boosted. if they would be: mentioned bard would be lvl 80 not 7x, same goes to tank not knowing stance, and lvl 90 tank would have 10 lvl's to learn that mitigations are used on trash, not to mention it was his 4th tank. So dont put words in my mouth when I never said they were boosted, but they couldnt play.

FF14 really really need a mythic+ system

6 to 8 max level dungeons, with difficulty for everyone (casuals, midcore, hardcore) and with a lot of random things, each even patch you put 8 new dungeons to the m+ system

I think the biggest contributor to the issue is dungeon roulettes being made to be the main way of leveling up or gaining currency for gear.

Back in ARR, alliance raids and dungeons initially had more going on for them and a variety of different mechanics. Leveling was done with FATE parties since it was faster and less a drag on your sanity than some of the dungeons, especially Aurum Vale and Dzaemel Darkhold. Labyrinth of the Ancients and some of the dungeons people think "fondly" of as being hard were never difficult for their own sake, but the difficulty came mostly from other players not paying attention or doing the content badly. Even stuff like Orbonne can be done with half your brain concentrating on something else, but the difficulty is making sure that everyone knows what to do and doesn't screw it up for everyone else.

A push to enforcing roulettes as the main source of daily content meant players needing to spam the same content repeatedly every day for multiple patches, which can be a drag on everyone's sanity if it's going to end up with players deciding to leave duty because it's the "longer dungeon" or the one they just plain hate the mechanics of. So everything gets smoothed over because like it or not, ultimately all that stuff just ends up being a daily grind on the rail of getting people equipped for raids.

It would be nice to see the dev team go back to that wild west where they didn't know which content would stick and we had dungeons that were more "interesting" and guildhests and stuff like that but I don't know if we will.

I started playing this game as a healer, then I dared to level up the "other healers" and as a tank, I began to notice between healer players. Like in Snowcloak there are few drakes that do AoE damage and some struggled to heal through that, so I had to limit the pulls then. Or the current Tower of Zot - healers spamming Cure I or spamming Cure III and going OOM. Sometimes - no job stone. And In Dawntrail Freecure, Cure I is still there, job stones aren't required, so how the content can change when everything else isn't changing and is in a semi-working state?

And doing Astro and Scholar. spamming Mt. Gulg at the level range - tanks asking about big pulls often because if both healer and tank can't do buttons then those pulls will fail.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Probably won't increase difficulty. Level skip potions were a mistake and when they inevitably put lvl90 Potions(which is just WoW level boost) on the Mog Station that'll basically cement that all content will have to be easy at all levels. Monkey's Paw.

So you'll run into the situation that you have players all the way up to level 90(currently 80) that will potentially be Sprouts and have little experience with the game.

On one hand SE will make a lot of money off of P2W on the other hand you introduce a pool of inexperienced players.

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If someone wants to become better, he’ll do it, skipping/not skipping doesn’t matter at all

Seems the same mixture. Tower of Zot was handing DF its lunch and I remember a LOT of complaints about the difficulty of that dungeon. It smacked the playerbase in the head just like Holminster did. Also the final bosses of Vanaspati and Ktisis and all of Dead Ends. It's really only Babil and Aitiascope this expansion that don't see a ton of complaints.

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

It's not just that, Labyrinth of the Ancients has a trash mob that occasionally causes mass deaths when the tank doesn't point it away while Myths of the Realm has nothing close.

Stormblood had funny prime number bot, tsunami ewers, and time explosion. Endwalker does... what, I'd say the scales but they always get skipped now, a rotate arena mech that that gives you 7 years to resolve it?

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You know that the reason why people die in LoA isn't because it's HARD, right? It's because no one gives a crap anymore and 90% of people are watching something on another monitor or scrolling tiktok or twitter while running it because it's a SNOOZEFEST and we have all of 2 buttons to push.

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Originally Posted by Rikka_Chu

Its because you already seen it and done this. They cant come up with any new mechanics that would be suited for normal mode content, other than reusing and mixing what we already seen.

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That's not true considering wow still has new mechanics in its dungeons/lfr raids 20 years later
the devs are just not being creative enough

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Originally Posted by Rikka_Chu

I guess last post for today. IMO dungeon difficulty itself inst a problem, the problem is lack of content diversity
In easy category we have: Dungeon's, Normal Raids, Alliance Raids, Variant Dungeons, Eureka, Bozja
In medium category we got: Absolutely nothing.
In Hard difficulty we got: Trials (even though its mixed bag, some of em can be considered hard, and some easy (like 5th trial of ew) so difficulty range can differ for trials)
In Very Hard difficulty we got: Savage Raids and Criterion Dungeons
In I dont have social like, I have no work and I sleep in my mom basement we got Ultimates, and Savage Criterion

Seems a lot but at end of the day it isn't. There should be also some harder dungeons that we could put in medium category that dont follow regular wall to wall and 3 bosses formula, then we should get separate tier of medium difficulty fast paced trials like barbaricia, or trials that dont follow regular formula of doing every single mechanic in order, and instead forcing players to adjust by spamming at them mechanics in random order (best example would be wol that had a lot of randomness)

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I'd define Bozja/Eureka as the proper "midcore" content personally because the damage tuning and general mechanic density/complexity are a fair bit higher while not being as punishing as the actual "hard" content like extremes.

Or at least the number of people I see on the floor during critical engagements/raids would suggest as much.

Idk about that one....

Personally, speaking mechanics-wise, I personally do think the dungeons at our current level cap are generally a little more difficult. At least in their current form.

From my experience, the only time I can recall anyone dying on a non-Endwalker dungeon was during Snowcloak with Fenrir, and in a lot of cases I chalk this up to their color scheme not being great.

I would probably say the dungeons I've experience most people die on (or in many cases even wipe on):
- Grand Cosmos final boss
- Paglth'an
- Vanaspati final boss
- Ktisis Hyperboreia final boss. -- In fact, this dungeon I almost always see KOs. It's a regular occurrence
- Dead Ends (first and second boss) - This one generally I think is one of the hardest dungeons. Simply because there are instances where mechanics will outright KO you. Most dungeons can just eat AoEs all day long without issue.

Personally, I am fine with the current difficulty of dungeons, granted, I think the mechanics should be somewhat threatening to fail, generally. Just so it doesn't develop a bad habit in thinking that you can just ignore AoEs.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

level 100 dungeon difficulty is equal to difficulty of level 50 dungeon..

I think 50 levels is enough for people to make things a bit challenging, in shadowbringers there is some attempts to make dungeon feels like challenge and I like the approach but in endwalker everything is easy even easier than shadowbringers.

I have a concern that DT will have same difficulty as other expansions, please make game more challenging.

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Source: Trust me bro?

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Originally Posted by Tunda

if someone is boosted as you say fukem i don't care just vote them or disband duty.. people are just tired of easy content in something related to story.. if someone is having a bad time learning a job go something like Bozja or do some fates.. you cannot just tell me that level 91 dungeon is easier than some level 50 dungeon..
PEOPLE DOING BOOSTING IS NOT MY PROBLEM AS SOMEONE WHO DO ALL DUNGEONS FROM LEVEL 15 TO 90
JUST DO ANOTHER QUEUE CALL IT BOOSTERS QUEUE AND MAKE MENTOR GO THEIR TO MAKE THEIR LIVE EASIER.

If I want to get relaxed I will do fates.. I will do Bozja.. I will do level 20 dungeons.. but bro not in 100

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Tell me you're a toxic player without telling me you're a toxic player.

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Originally Posted by Rikka_Chu

Just try to do full pull before first boss in Amdapor Keep. Most healers who want to strike because healing is 2 easy wont be able to heal tank with what they got at this level.

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You realize big pulls are actually primarily a tank and DPS mechanic?

tbh from what i seen atleast from 91 dungeon it will be easier than most level 50 dungeons lol arr dungeons when synced are some of the funnest to go through 50 ones anyways

People asked for harder expert roulettes and compared them to mythic dungeons from WoW. What did we get? Variant Dungeons.

While Variant dungeons are fun the first time, they get pretty repititive after a while. Then, you get criterion and criterion savage. Instead of being another midcore content, both of them are rather tedious to do without a dedicated 4man static. Plus, the rewards aren't really great or heavily gated (glowy weapon effects)

Here, I'd hope for variant dungeons roulette - just so you have another option next to expert roulettes.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

People asked for harder expert roulettes and compared them to mythic dungeons from WoW. What did we get? Variant Dungeons.

While Variant dungeons are fun the first time, they get pretty repititive after a while. Then, you get criterion and criterion savage. Instead of being another midcore content, both of them are rather tedious to do without a dedicated 4man static. Plus, the rewards aren't really great or heavily gated (glowy weapon effects)

Here, I'd hope for variant dungeons roulette - just so you have another option next to expert roulettes.

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honestly it would be nice if we got some dungeons you couldnt q for, that you had to spend like max poetics to geta key then go the area of it unlock a cave door or something and it closes behind you kind of thing as in a basicly open world dungeon


honestly would be great to have open world dungeons that can have up to beyond even what savage can challange ppl with, and we can pick how hard we want it to be by buying the right key for the door

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

You realize big pulls are actually primarily a tank and DPS mechanic?

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Unless your tank is a DRK and to a lesser extent GNB.

The problem is purely about a tank's self sustain and more importantly, the differences between them. Dungeons have to be designed around the lowest denominator (everyone has to clear it) and so they are designed with DRK's comparatively abysmal self healing. If tank's self healing was more normalised, they could design incoming damage where the self healing from tanks doesn't just provide a self benediction every 25 seconds. Once damage is too much for a tank to handle on their own, that is when healers can come in and deal with the rest.

I is worth noting that when I say normalise the self heal from tanks, that does not exclude taking self healing away completely and leaving the recovery entirely on the healers (though personally, I think that is a bit extreme).

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Unless your tank is a DRK and to a lesser extent GNB.

The problem is purely about a tank's self sustain and more importantly, the differences between them. Dungeons have to be designed around the lowest denominator (everyone has to clear it) and so they are designed with DRK's comparatively abysmal self healing. If tank's self healing was more normalised, they could design incoming damage where the self healing from tanks doesn't just provide a self benediction every 25 seconds. Once damage is too much for a tank to handle on their own, that is when healers can come in and deal with the rest.

I is worth noting that when I say normalise the self heal from tanks, that does not exclude taking self healing away completely and leaving the recovery entirely on the healers (though personally, I think that is a bit extreme).

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Sure, I was just trying to remind people that big pulls heavily rely on the tanks using their mits properly, and also heavily on the DPS for completing the pull as soon as possible before the tank runs out of mitigations.