SE please stop the buying housing with alts on the new DC's

SE, this is the time to prohibit this kind of activity for good meaning to be able to do so, you must give up eg. house or FC on the other server where was from, or if in need to be established a few months permitted then given the option to disband FC and or land on other servers.

Current system is abused, and is all from a bot central to RMT factories as it is today.

Houses should be restricted to one house per region per service account without grandfathering. This includes FC houses so if you have an FC house you can't have a regular one.
This is the last restriction that is needed, and make sure to demolish all extra houses except the last one visited. If you have an FC house the FC house gets priority, if one has several FCs then the latest visited one counts.
This should free up a lot of houses for regular folks to bid on.

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Originally Posted by Gokki

Houses should be restricted to one house per region per service account without grandfathering. This includes FC houses so if you have an FC house you can't have a regular one.
This is the last restriction that is needed, and make sure to demolish all extra houses except the last one visited. If you have an FC house the FC house gets priority, if one has several FCs then the latest visited one counts.
This should free up a lot of houses for regular folks to bid on.

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Okay cool. can't have houses on multiple servers. but why shouldn't you be able to have a personal if you have an FC house? Who owns the FC house? The FC does, yes? So does that then mean every person in an FC cannot have a house? That's ridiculous. The leader of the FC does not own the house. If you said they did, and then they didn't log in for 30 days, and leadership auto transferred to someone who DOES have a personal house, suddenly their house or the FC house gets deleted, no warning, depending on which was last visited? That would cause riots. You have no control over when other people log in, or who gets control of the FC if leadership is passed from someone not logging in for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Gokki

Houses should be restricted to one house per region per service account without grandfathering. This includes FC houses so if you have an FC house you can't have a regular one.
This is the last restriction that is needed, and make sure to demolish all extra houses except the last one visited. If you have an FC house the FC house gets priority, if one has several FCs then the latest visited one counts.
This should free up a lot of houses for regular folks to bid on.

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The problem with that is that FC's can change leadership. What happens if the leadership changes to someone who already has a house? Does it get deleted? Seems unfair when FC leadership can change automatically if the leader doesn't log in for a while.

just give up on housing entirely. they cant be bothered to fix it and allow single players to own multiple wards. just forget it.

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Originally Posted by Gokki

Houses should be restricted to one house per region per service account without grandfathering. This includes FC houses so if you have an FC house you can't have a regular one.
This is the last restriction that is needed, and make sure to demolish all extra houses except the last one visited. If you have an FC house the FC house gets priority, if one has several FCs then the latest visited one counts.
This should free up a lot of houses for regular folks to bid on.

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It's common for people to end up in a position of house control within an FC. How would you determine who is the "owner" at that point? Before we moved to our Large plot, we grabbed a Medium and one of my FC friends paid for it (split the cost but I gave my gil to them). Should they lose their house then even though I'm the leader?

I'm all for having more houses to be bid on, but you're attacking a part of the playerbase with your idea, most of whom own a personal house fair and square and also help with an FC, and who aren't the problem with the system in the first place.

The problem is not the alts, the ‘duplication’ of personal house and fc house, but the system itself. Stop yelling at other players: it's the game itself that's badly designed.

I'd also like to tackle the submarine, which is a very bad idea, but I'm going to get an earful.

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Originally Posted by justausername

Okay cool. can't have houses on multiple servers. but why shouldn't you be able to have a personal if you have an FC house? Who owns the FC house? The FC does, yes? So does that then mean every person in an FC cannot have a house? That's ridiculous. The leader of the FC does not own the house. If you said they did, and then they didn't log in for 30 days, and leadership auto transferred to someone who DOES have a personal house, suddenly their house or the FC house gets deleted, no warning, depending on which was last visited? That would cause riots. You have no control over when other people log in, or who gets control of the FC if leadership is passed from someone not logging in for a long time.

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You could think a little longer and just make it work. Leadership won't be transfered to someone else who already has a house, or they could become a Custodian - can control it like the owner without owning it per-se until someone shows up. Certain housing and FC functions would be blocked until house ownership is trasfered. You can make it work, just takes more than 10 seconds to come up with a system to cover the edge cases.

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

The problem with that is that FC's can change leadership. What happens if the leadership changes to someone who already has a house? Does it get deleted? Seems unfair when FC leadership can change automatically if the leader doesn't log in for a while.

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They can't change to that person. "Unable to transfer leadership to Bristol Russ as they already own a property."

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Originally Posted by Infindox

It's common for people to end up in a position of house control within an FC. How would you determine who is the "owner" at that point? Before we moved to our Large plot, we grabbed a Medium and one of my FC friends paid for it (split the cost but I gave my gil to them). Should they lose their house then even though I'm the leader?

I'm all for having more houses to be bid on, but you're attacking a part of the playerbase with your idea, most of whom own a personal house fair and square and also help with an FC, and who aren't the problem with the system in the first place.

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When the system is implemented there will be a grace period for existing owners to sort out who owns what. If they're unwilling to give up their personal house they can excuse themselves from being an FC leader or demolish the FC house. It's a choice to be made on a case-by-case and personal level. There would be ample warnings (including in-game mails), a grace period based on people logging in and a choice dialog when the time comes - everyone would be able to choose which one to keep, which one to transfer, etc. There are many ways to do it, it's not difficult imo.

The reality is that a lot of people make small FCs just to get around the restrictions for FCs and Large plots, including extensive use of alts. It's not fair to everyone else and it's an easy sacrifice i'm willing to make so more people can have access to houses.
Anyone arguing against this is part of the problem and not letting newer players participate in the housing system.

Yes, the system is not very well designed, that's why we're arguing here FOR a better design, these restrictions make it more fair to everyone and let newer players participate in the housing gameplay. It's fine.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

SE, this is the time to prohibit this kind of activity for good meaning to be able to do so, you must give up eg. house or FC on the other server where was from, or if in need to be established a few months permitted then given the option to disband FC and or land on other servers.

Current system is abused, and is all from a bot central to RMT factories as it is today.

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there is currently nothing in place to stop me making an alt on shadow and buying a house. so.. i will. why.. because i can. there are not going to be maybe players already so i see absolutely nothing wrong with occasionally logging in for that sweet sweet mansion

Go back to clicking placards. Was better

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Originally Posted by Gokki

When the system is implemented there will be a grace period for existing owners to sort out who owns what. If they're unwilling to give up their personal house they can excuse themselves from being an FC leader or demolish the FC house. It's a choice to be made on a case-by-case and personal level. There would be ample warnings (including in-game mails), a grace period based on people logging in and a choice dialog when the time comes - everyone would be able to choose which one to keep, which one to transfer, etc. There are many ways to do it, it's not difficult imo.

The reality is that a lot of people make small FCs just to get around the restrictions for FCs and Large plots, including extensive use of alts. It's not fair to everyone else and it's an easy sacrifice i'm willing to make so more people can have access to houses.
Anyone arguing against this is part of the problem and not letting newer players participate in the housing system.

Yes, the system is not very well designed, that's why we're arguing here FOR a better design, these restrictions make it more fair to everyone and let newer players participate in the housing gameplay. It's fine.

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The issue isn't with private housing so I don't know why we're suggesting blocking people from having a private house if they're an FC lead. You cannot multi-own private houses the same you can FCs, it's literally 1 per person period.

Also, let's not pretend there aren't thousands of houses available across the entire game, Dynamis alone has several thousand on 3/4 servers and as far as I remember the situation is similar on the newer EU worlds. If new players really want housing they have the option to get a free transfer to any new server and they can go get one. We're about to get thousands more with the new worlds added in EU and NA.

Since you specifically pointed out people getting around restrictions for large plots, I'm assuming that is what this is ultimately fueled by: you want a mansion. The same reason that anyone brings up wanting to shake up housing to remove mansions from people, because they ultimately want to make it easier for themselves to get one. Just move to a new server when it opens and plan ahead if you want one that badly. I picked up two during the first month of Dynamis opening just by planning, I was the sole bid on both of them. It's that easy.

As I've said before, can either adapt and live with/conquer the situation or sit and wait for Square to do something about it. This topic has been discussed for years now so that should say which option is probably the better for your overall well being.

Feels like irl, changing it would break my immersion ... :3

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

there is currently nothing in place to stop me making an alt on shadow and buying a house. so.. i will. why.. because i can. there are not going to be maybe players already so i see absolutely nothing wrong with occasionally logging in for that sweet sweet mansion

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Actually there is because Shadow, at least for DT launch, is only going to be an overspill DC to help congestion. You can't create new characters on, nor transfer characters to Shadow.

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Originally Posted by Gokki

Houses should be restricted to one house per region per service account without grandfathering. This includes FC houses so if you have an FC house you can't have a regular one.
This is the last restriction that is needed, and make sure to demolish all extra houses except the last one visited. If you have an FC house the FC house gets priority, if one has several FCs then the latest visited one counts.
This should free up a lot of houses for regular folks to bid on.

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I can understand getting rid of those that owns an entire ward to themselves, but I feel as though you're hard punishing those that regularly uses an alt.

On second thought, I think you're trying to punish those that are up in a free company. I shouldn't have to choose between being in a group and playing solo just for housing reasons. I already have to deal with this in pvp. Can we please not bring this to a non-combat activity?

Taking things away doesn't fix anything. It creates new problems.

Detach workshops from housing and attach them to the Grand Company HQs. Detach gardening from housing and add it to Island Sanctuary. You've now removed most of what incentivizes multiple FC house ownership by a single player - the profit potential - while leaving the profit potential in place and reducing demand on the housing system.

Improve instanced housing to include multiple sizes and be interior/exterior neutral. You now have a system where players can get what they want without having to compete against other players for a small chance to get it. Wards can stay in place for those who like the competitive aspect of obtaining the prime plots.

Fix the stupid furnishing placement restrictions. Players shouldn't have to resort to third party mods to easily and precisely place furnishings where they want them to be.

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Originally Posted by Gokki

Houses should be restricted to one house per region per service account without grandfathering. This includes FC houses so if you have an FC house you can't have a regular one.
This is the last restriction that is needed, and make sure to demolish all extra houses except the last one visited. If you have an FC house the FC house gets priority, if one has several FCs then the latest visited one counts.
This should free up a lot of houses for regular folks to bid on.

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That's a stupid idea if I ever heard one.
It would essentially mean that you can either have a private house, OR be in an FC. But not both.
No, thanks. Even if the current situation is bad, it is way, way better than what you propose.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

SE, this is the time to prohibit this kind of activity for good meaning to be able to do so, you must give up eg. house or FC on the other server where was from, or if in need to be established a few months permitted then given the option to disband FC and or land on other servers.

Current system is abused, and is all from a bot central to RMT factories as it is today.

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If a player has a house on a dead server and a popular server and has to delete one of them, they are going to give up the one on a dead server. Here's a recent example of this player mentality. When players are forced to make a choice, most players will choose to own a house on a big server, and the minority who don't, already have a house on a dead server and you don't want them to own more. All this restriction would do is free up houses that no one wants to buy.

Why would it matter if a house people don't want to buy and decorate is taken by someone who uses it for their own gain in a way that doesn't impact you? It's pointless to ask I guess. No one ever answers that question in good faith and neither will you.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Taking things away doesn't fix anything. It creates new problems.

Detach workshops from housing and attach them to the Grand Company HQs. Detach gardening from housing and add it to Island Sanctuary. You've now removed most of what incentivizes multiple FC house ownership by a single player - the profit potential - while leaving the profit potential in place and reducing demand on the housing system.

Improve instanced housing to include multiple sizes and be interior/exterior neutral. You now have a system where players can get what they want without having to compete against other players for a small chance to get it. Wards can stay in place for those who like the competitive aspect of obtaining the prime plots.

Fix the stupid furnishing placement restrictions. Players shouldn't have to resort to third party mods to easily and precisely place furnishings where they want them to be.

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That i agree, some of the systems tied to an FC should go for GC, so players who don't/can't engage in an FC can do those by themselves. That said - if a player's sole reason to engage with an empty FC is to do the workshop stuff on their own then maybe they should want to join an existing FC, the way it was designed in the first place.

I stand by my reasoning, the inconvenience of some people is easily worth sacrificing so other players can have their own house.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

That's a stupid idea if I ever heard one.
It would essentially mean that you can either have a private house, OR be in an FC. But not both.
No, thanks. Even if the current situation is bad, it is way, way better than what you propose.

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Please think carefully. Only FC leaders can't have both personal and FC house: either transfer FC ownership to someone who doesn't or demolish your personal house. Anyone else in the FC doesn't have this problem, it's really only FC leaders who bear this burden. I'm OK with it. If you want you own house AND have a mansion for the FC don't be an FC lead.

If you currently own a house AND an empty FC for your personal use that's PRECISELY what i'm advocating for breaking.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

If a player has a house on a dead server and a popular server and has to delete one of them, they are going to give up the one on a dead server. Here's a recent example of this player mentality. When players are forced to make a choice, most players will choose to own a house on a big server, and the minority who don't, already have a house on a dead server and you don't want them to own more. All this restriction would do is free up houses that no one wants to buy.

Why would it matter if a house people don't want to buy and decorate is taken by someone who uses it for their own gain in a way that doesn't impact you? It's pointless to ask I guess. No one ever answers that question in good faith and neither will you.

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I do agree that the rules can be relaxed on emptier wards. Owning a house on a mostly-vacant ward should, reasonably, suspend enforcement of the Housing Exclusion Principle.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Also, let's not pretend there aren't thousands of houses available across the entire game, Dynamis alone has several thousand on 3/4 servers and as far as I remember the situation is similar on the newer EU worlds. If new players really want housing they have the option to get a free transfer to any new server and they can go get one. We're about to get thousands more with the new worlds added in EU and NA.

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That is a good counter-argument. I do think it's reasonable to suspend the exclusion rule on empty wards, this way owning a house in an empty ward would allow anyone else to have an FC house and vice versa. However, if all wards fill up then choices should be made eventually, though this is unlikely. That said - the main goal is people owning multiple houses on alts for no good reason. That should absolutely be broken up.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Since you specifically pointed out people getting around restrictions for large plots, I'm assuming that is what this is ultimately fueled by: you want a mansion. The same reason that anyone brings up wanting to shake up housing to remove mansions from people, because they ultimately want to make it easier for themselves to get one. Just move to a new server when it opens and plan ahead if you want one that badly. I picked up two during the first month of Dynamis opening just by planning, I was the sole bid on both of them. It's that easy.

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I'm not on Dynamis, and i don't want a mansion, i'm happy with my Medium plot, but i do have friends and have experience new players unable to get a house at some point or another.

I’d be down for 1 FC house and 1 Personal house per service account and compensating anyone for any excess properties they’d have to give up. The supply just doesn’t meet the demand. And no the solution isn’t for people to leave their FCs to transfer to emptier worlds just to become a home owner. It would be nice if everyone’s alts could have houses but we really should be rationing them like wartime.

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

Actually there is because Shadow, at least for DT launch, is only going to be an overspill DC to help congestion. You can't create new characters on, nor transfer characters to Shadow.

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For what it's worth, the NA worlds will not be. So anyone can make an alt and grab up plots within the first month.

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Originally Posted by Gokki

I'm not on Dynamis, and i don't want a mansion, i'm happy with my Medium plot, but i do have friends and have experience new players unable to get a house at some point or another.

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Fair enough, as I said if they really want one there are plenty of servers in need of people to play in them with thousands of houses available. They'd be doing more good by going there and helping to boost the population alongside getting an easier plot compared to staying in a packed server.

I play on alts regularly on other servers. When shadow opens up I have four alts I'd love to get homes for. Won't be for quite some time but idm, gives me time to get the gil together. I'd love a little beach front cottage for an alt I plan on making a picto main.

I see no benefit screwing over normal players because of paranoia over RMT. RMT can use bots to farm gil 24/7 they don't need to spend 6 months setting up subs.

Dear SE,

Penalizing paying characters that are playing by the rules of your TOS, to sate a vocal minority when you don't even have close to enough houses for everyone is a mistake.

Focus on the real issue, which is removing the scarcity aspect of the system and figuring out what needs to be done for an equitable solution since we all pay subs.

Remove submarines and crossbreeding from needing a physical plot as well.

Long standing players that have been here and earned their homes should not have to care about, or be impacted by people who came after.

Sincerely a happy landlord playing by your GM approved TOS that pays for multiple subs each month specifically for my well earned housing empire.


P.S. Winning a house on a lottery is an endorphin rush of the ages. I actually surprisingly prefer this because it injects real accomplishment that the first come first serve system didn't have for me personally.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

I play on alts regularly on other servers. When shadow opens up I have four alts I'd love to get homes for. Won't be for quite some time but idm, gives me time to get the gil together. I'd love a little beach front cottage for an alt I plan on making a picto main.

I see no benefit screwing over normal players because of paranoia over RMT. RMT can use bots to farm gil 24/7 they don't need to spend 6 months setting up subs.

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As an FYI check the lodestone, I do not think Shadow will be available for home buying. There is no guarantee it will turn over into real servers at this time.

Want to really cause a riot go with...

ONE house per account

Get rid of FC housing in its entirety

Then sit back and watch the fireworks. Could be a good show

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Originally Posted by Gokki

This includes FC houses so if you have an FC house you can't have a regular one.

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I dislike this take immensely. Just because you're a leader of an FC with a house, you shouldn't be allowed a personal house? The impact would be almost nothing on people who are monopolizing FC housing (multiple accounts and those who don't much care about personal housing) and would be brutal to regular players just doing their thing. The FC house belongs to the FC, not the individual.

I disagree with the OP too. One thing SE could do to free up a bit of housing is decouple airship/submarine production from housing. Make it so FCs can purchase an entrance to the workshop elsewhere, and it'll likely help a bit. They could also make apartments upgradable and provide a little outdoor garden area, and this would make them more attractive as an alternative.

The real issue with housing, however, is that there is not enough supply to meet the demand. No amount of draconian rules are going to fix that issue. We need a supply that can meet player demand (instanced housing, most likely) to really fix it.

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Originally Posted by ErysNight

As an FYI check the lodestone, I do not think Shadow will be available for home buying. There is no guarantee it will turn over into real servers at this time.

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If it's 6 months from now or a year I really don't mind. I got my first house around the end of 2018, my longest held mansion has been since 2019. I play the long game for housing in this game haha. Patience is important.

SE loves RMT and housing exploiters so much that they keep making content for them.

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Originally Posted by Brynne

I dislike this take immensely. Just because you're a leader of an FC with a house, you shouldn't be allowed a personal house? The impact would be almost nothing on people who are monopolizing FC housing (multiple accounts and those who don't much care about personal housing) and would be brutal to regular players just doing their thing. The FC house belongs to the FC, not the individual.

I disagree with the OP too. One thing SE could do to free up a bit of housing is decouple airship/submarine production from housing. Make it so FCs can purchase an entrance to the workshop elsewhere, and it'll likely help a bit. They could also make apartments upgradable and provide a little outdoor garden area, and this would make them more attractive as an alternative.

The real issue with housing, however, is that there is not enough supply to meet the demand. No amount of draconian rules are going to fix that issue. We need a supply that can meet player demand (instanced housing, most likely) to really fix it.

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Let's just be specific here:
The demand is for larges/mediums, there are still thousands of small houses available. It kinda grinds my gears when people say there isn't supply when there are houses that have been sitting abandoned for months on multiple data centers just because they're smalls or in the Goblet. I was able to get a house within my first week on Diabolos just because it was a small that no one else bid on in a decent location in Goblet.

It's correct to say that there aren't enough "ideal houses" to meet the demand of the community but literally I feel like a broken record repeating myself about the state of Dynamis and the thousands of personals just chilling there (not including unopened wards).

The stupidity when it comes to Housing suggestions on the OF never ceases to amaze me.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Let's just be specific here:
The demand is for larges/mediums, there are still thousands of small houses available. It kinda grinds my gears when people say there isn't supply when there are houses that have been sitting abandoned for months on multiple data centers just because they're smalls or in the Goblet. I was able to get a house within my first week on Diabolos just because it was a small that no one else bid on in a decent location in Goblet.

It's correct to say that there aren't enough "ideal houses" to meet the demand of the community but literally I feel like a broken record repeating myself about the state of Dynamis and the thousands of personals just chilling there (not including unopened wards).

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A big problem i feel with small houses is their stringent limits of items. If the item limit is raised, both inside and outside, then it'll aleviate the problem i feel.