Will there be SOLO queue for PVP in Dawntrail

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I hope they update chat to show who is removing markers and greifing their own team.

I strongly support both suggestions.

Additional: had a match a couple of days ago in which someone on my alliance put <1> through <7> markers on their own alliance members. Given they're pretty much universally used to mark enemy targets, I think this was one time when removing them was necessary.

It already exists ? If you're talking about fl/rw it's fine as is.

Play Crystalline Conflict.

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Originally Posted by Teno

It already exists ? If you're talking about fl/rw it's fine as is.

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I'm pretty sure that they meant forced solo q which in that case it'll definitely be a miserable experience if you wanted to learn specific synergies and testing things out with another or a few.

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Originally Posted by Teno

It already exists ? If you're talking about fl/rw it's fine as is.

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Do you play FL on a premade-infested DC?

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

I'm pretty sure that they meant forced solo q which in that case it'll definitely be a miserable experience if you wanted to learn specific synergies and testing things out with another or a few.

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Custom matches for scrims would be great.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Custom matches for scrims would be great.

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If we had proper customs I would be pvping instead of being on the forums.

Besides, if premades were to go away today and customs were left unchanged my only way of testing out things would be strictly 1v1 fights which would be useless to me since majority of fights are huge team fights. If the Elixers didn't exist for frontlines then maybe I would be solo wandering trying to push out how much I can do in terms of quick kills and surviving on my own instead of being confined to the team and the decisions that they decide to do.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

If we had proper customs I would be pvping instead of being on the forums.

Besides, if premades were to go away today and customs were left unchanged my only way of testing out things would be strictly 1v1 fights which would be useless to me since majority of fights are huge team fights. If the Elixers didn't exist for frontlines then maybe I would be solo wandering trying to push out how much I can do in terms of quick kills and surviving on my own instead of being confined to the team and the decisions that they decide to do.

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My guess is you'll be fine for at least a year, but SE isn't going to indefinitely tolerate 4 people out of 24 flipping the expected win rate from 33% to 80%.

How do I play with my casual friends

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Originally Posted by Valence

How do I play with my casual friends

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It would be a shame if that ability became a casualty of this.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

My guess is you'll be fine for at least a year, but SE isn't going to indefinitely tolerate 4 people out of 24 flipping the expected win rate from 33% to 80%.

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Let’s be honest, if the the devs actually gave a care about frontlines they wouldn’t use the cc sandbox for it. It took MONTHS to fix the paladin cheese from oovo and it we basically were told that 7.1 is when they will finally do adjustments for PvP. We will still be dealing with this after 7.1 since I highly doubt they look at these forums and understand how annoying the DRK bs is in conjunction with ast being overpowered, scholar dot going way to long, dnc and rpr lb stopping shields and the inability to purify them, etc.

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Originally Posted by EvianYmir89

Let’s be honest, if the the devs actually gave a care about frontlines they wouldn’t use the cc sandbox for it. It took MONTHS to fix the paladin cheese from oovo and it we basically were told that 7.1 is when they will finally do adjustments for PvP. We will still be dealing with this after 7.1 since I highly doubt they look at these forums and understand how annoying the DRK bs is in conjunction with ast being overpowered, scholar dot going way to long, dnc and rpr lb stopping shields and the inability to purify them, etc.

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That's fair, but equally it's completely counter to the SE philosophy to allow a mode to persist in which you'll lose 9/10 games just because you are facing a premade. I'm still amazed they went for a 3-way mode without figuring out a way of having two winning teams every match.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

That's fair, but equally it's completely counter to the SE philosophy to allow a mode to persist in which you'll lose 9/10 games just because you are facing a premade. I'm still amazed they went for a 3-way mode without figuring out a way of having two winning teams every match.

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It depends on the specifics of the implementation, but without a massive change to how scoring works, I imagine most variations of a two-winner format would only end in 2nd and 1st place hard-focusing the team in 3rd in order to guarantee a zero-effort win. The leading team--especially if it has a premade--would be virtually uncontested since it would be easier for 3rd place to fight 2nd for a chance at winning.

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Originally Posted by Silhart

It depends on the specifics of the implementation, but without a massive change to how scoring works, I imagine most variations of a two-winner format would only end in 2nd and 1st place hard-focusing the team in 3rd in order to guarantee a zero-effort win. The leading team--especially if it has a premade--would be virtually uncontested since it would be easier for 3rd place to fight 2nd for a chance at winning.

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Absolutely, I wasn't advocating for it, just surprised that SE introduced a mode in which expectation is to lose 2 out of 3.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Do you play FL on a premade-infested DC?

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I spam solo FL for hours a day on one of the most "premade-infested" dc there is. It's perfectly fine as is, stop complaining about premades, you don't lose 90% of the games against one, or git gudder.

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Originally Posted by Teno

I spam solo FL for hours a day on one of the most "premade-infested" dc there is. It's perfectly fine as is, stop complaining about premades, you don't lose 90% of the games against one, or git gudder.

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I'll complain about whatever I want.

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Originally Posted by Teno

I spam solo FL for hours a day on one of the most "premade-infested" dc there is. It's perfectly fine as is, stop complaining about premades, you don't lose 90% of the games against one, or git gudder.

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Curious why people being frustrated about something made you tell them to “get good”. I’m guessing you’re on a premade group in FL usually and from what I can also see you play on an EU by your character info. Seriously doubt the N.A. servers and EU servers are comparable PvP wise. Regardless people are allowed to be annoyed.

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Originally Posted by EvianYmir89

Curious why people being frustrated about something made you tell them to “get good”. I’m guessing you’re on a premade group in FL usually and from what I can also see you play on an EU by your character info. Seriously doubt the N.A. servers and EU servers are comparable PvP wise. Regardless people are allowed to be annoyed.

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Plus this isn't tensor calculus, it's simple arithmetic. Premades on NA consistently report a win-rate of 80%. That leaves 20% to be divided between the other two teams. Hence you figure to lose 9/10. The only way to avoid the conclusion is if premades are lying about their win-rate, and while as a culture they do seem to have difficulties telling the truth, on this issue I tend to believe them.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Plus this isn't tensor calculus, it's simple arithmetic. Premades on NA consistently report a win-rate of 80%. That leaves 20% to be divided between the other two teams. Hence you figure to lose 9/10. The only way to avoid the conclusion is if premades are lying about their win-rate, and while as a culture they do seem to have difficulties telling the truth, on this issue I tend to believe them.

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As much as I would like to talk about win rates I'll stay silent. If I've made no convincing arguments then when I joined the forums there's no sense of trying now. If this does go to solo q only I may attempt to push towards a 40% win rate overall to prove a point. If I get addicted to frontlines once more for the fun of it, 45%. Currently everything is 33% after 2.6k games as I type this.

I've finished getting all the achievements that I want to get from FLs about a month ago or so after close to 2.5k campaigns, most were done before I start actually partying up with friends to start the daily spams. Since then I only queue solo once a day very occasionally (low priority), or do more than 5 a day if a friendo wants to party up together.

If they take away party queue, I'm just gonna bench Frontline for good. I don't like getting matched with bunch of defeatists. They ruin my enjoyment out of the game more than "premades", just like how those enablers in regular DF contents who pardons terribad plays in current contents just because "it's just roulette bro".

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I've finished getting all the achievements that I want to get from FLs about a month ago or so after close to 2.5k campaigns, most were done before I start actually partying up with friends to start the daily spams. Since then I only queue solo once a day very occasionally (low priority), or do more than 5 a day if a friendo wants to party up together.

If they take away party queue, I'm just gonna bench Frontline for good. I don't like getting matched with bunch of defeatists. They ruin my enjoyment out of the game more than "premades", just like how those enablers in regular DF contents who pardons terribad plays in current contents just because "it's just roulette bro".

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You'll still get matched with a bunch of defeatists, but if you're meta-stacking you might create additional ones on the opposing teams.

Defeatism has a source.

I don't know about premades, but normally even in a party with my Guild members, i tend to see the winning faction being the one with the most organization; you don't need premades for that- it's just a question of having people with the initiative of doing callouts to help drive the flow of the ant army to various objectives, letting people know of possible incoming, pinches, etc. The groups with the most communication will always have the advantage; i won't say a guaranteed win, but a advantage.

There is also a bit of rng involved, there's going to be new people mixed into trail-mix of ants, even with the so-called 'premades' there is no 100% guarantee that there aren't going to be newer PvPers mixed in.

And i've tested the whole 3, 2 ,1, queue countdown with others many times and that's also rng, there is no real way to game the system and if there is, i don't know about; and frankly i don't want to know.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

You'll still get matched with a bunch of defeatists, but if you're meta-stacking you might create additional ones on the opposing teams.

Defeatism has a source.

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I've seen defeatism long before these "DRK premades ruins FL" even came to be. Meta stacking probably contributes, but it's not the only factor. I think it's unfair to laser focus on them & potentially undermining the other factors.

At the end of the day, what I have issue with is 'the unconducive mindset' (i.e. don't even try, vendetta, poor sportmanship, etc) rather than 'how they choose to play'. The only way for me to reduce that irritation to tolerable degree is to party up with my friends. We try to win, but if it's a loss then it is what it is, no hard feelings---off to another game we go.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I've seen defeatism long before these "DRK premades ruins FL" even came to be. Meta stacking probably contributes, but it's not the only factor. I think it's unfair to laser focus on them & potentially undermining the other factors.

At the end of the day, what I have issue with is 'the unconducive mindset' (i.e. don't even try, vendetta, poor sportmanship, etc) rather than 'how they choose to play'. The only way for me to reduce that irritation to tolerable degree is to party up with my friends. We try to win, but if it's a loss then it is what it is, no hard feelings---off to another game we go.

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Well sure, defeatism/apathy has multiple sources, and the premade source and Q-synching long predates the DRK+ meta. But it's completely fair to note that I overfocus on premades. The likely reason for this is that I intensely dislike playing on the same team as a premade. But I agree with you that other sources of people simply not trying are important to understand and, in a perfect world, eradicate.

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Originally Posted by Bunny_Girl

I only engage in Crystal Conflict for the sake of obtaining my mount and seasonal rewards; honestly, the current rewards don't motivate me much. In my opinion, large-scale conflicts like Frontline are where each character truly shines the most.

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Good for you, but don't expect a 72/48man instance with 72/48 solo queuers anytime soon. Whole point of being able to party up in FL/RW is to have some control over with who you play with, making it less of a headache to rely exclusively on randoms.

Also, it's actually where each character shines less and certain jobs even less than others. Less players, more individual responsibility/impact and vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Good for you, but don't expect a 72/48man instance with 72/48 solo queuers anytime soon. Whole point of being able to party up in FL/RW is to have some control over with who you play with, making it less of a headache to rely exclusively on randoms.

Also, it's actually where each character shines less and certain jobs even less than others. Less players, more individual responsibility/impact and vice versa.

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That may be the point, but due to player abuse, the history of FL has been to reduce the party size. That's why we're randomly assigned to a GC and why the queue subsequently went from full to light.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

That may be the point, but due to player abuse, the history of FL has been to reduce the party size. That's why we're randomly assigned to a GC and why the queue subsequently went from full to light.

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8-man queue as an option along with GC-lock was actually kinda awful, I agree. But what we have now is miles away from that and definitely miles away from solo-queue-only.

I think it is a healthy middle.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

8-man queue as an option along with GC-lock was actually kinda awful, I agree. But what we have now is miles away from that and definitely miles away from solo-queue-only.

I think it is a healthy middle.

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I think what people are looking for is the option of a solo-only queue. You may not agree with the growing hostility towards premades, but the fact is it exists. The twin queue idea has been criticized on the grounds that if there were two queue modes, one that allows light parties and one that does not, the former would never pop. I find this somewhat amusing.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I think what people are looking for is the option of a solo-only queue. You may not agree with the growing hostility towards premades, but the fact is it exists. The twin queue idea has been criticized on the grounds that if there were two queue modes, one that allows light parties and one that does not, the former would never pop. I find this somewhat amusing.

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I don't mind either of them as I adjust to whatever the game hands me, but I can't realistically see a second queue for solo-only coexist with up-to-4-queue. Not because it would be a bad idea, but because it would divide the playerpool of frontlines greatly, to detriment of both. I am uncertain if we have a playerbase large enough to facilitate both.

Now if it was 8v8v8, that'd be a different story.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

The twin queue idea has been criticized on the grounds that if there were two queue modes, one that allows light parties and one that does not, the former would never pop. I find this somewhat amusing.

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Maybe because some of us has seen it for ourselves when it came to feast. While I personally believe that it's wrong to compare solo rank and team rank together we only have the one season of team, and that tells the entire story. Compared to solo q rank queues was the worst in team rank. While I personally can't say why that is you can probably put the pieces together by looking at the team ratings.

Maybe if 24 mans was brought back and it was an option to queue premade it may work. Having 72 on the other hand is just not feasible. It is most likely going to be dead without help from the queue syncers...just like where Rival Wings are currently at outside of Moogle events.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

Maybe because some of us has seen it for ourselves when it came to feast. While I personally believe that it's wrong to compare solo rank and team rank together we only have the one season of team, and that tells the entire story. Compared to solo q rank queues was the worst in team rank. While I personally can't say why that is you can probably put the pieces together by looking at the team ratings.

Maybe if 24 mans was brought back and it was an option to queue premade it may work. Having 72 on the other hand is just not feasible. It is most likely going to be dead without help from the queue syncers...just like where Rival Wings are currently at outside of Moogle events.

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I'd much prefer smaller teams. But on Aether at least the queue times are currently so short I see no issues from that perspective with a solo-only queue.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I don't mind either of them as I adjust to whatever the game hands me, but I can't realistically see a second queue for solo-only coexist with up-to-4-queue. Not because it would be a bad idea, but because it would divide the playerpool of frontlines greatly, to detriment of both. I am uncertain if we have a playerbase large enough to facilitate both.

Now if it was 8v8v8, that'd be a different story.

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Agreed. A different and happier story.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I'd much prefer smaller teams. But on Aether at least the queue times are currently so short I see no issues from that perspective with a solo-only queue.

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So do I. It feels as though I can actually win a game through problem solving rather then brute force and praying for a miracle. As for queue times they're going to be short. The roulette exist. Whether it's for fun or to simply get xp everyone is heading there.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

So do I. It feels as though I can actually win a game through problem solving rather then brute force and praying for a miracle. As for queue times they're going to be short. The roulette exist. Whether it's for fun or to simply get xp everyone is heading there.

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Roulette doubtless has an impact on queue times, but on Aether at least I recognize over half the players in any given match as regulars. If region-wide queueing ever became a thing, my guess is that, even with reduced rewards/XP, queue times would be super short. Sort of funny that the common view is PvP in 14 is crap, and yet thousands of people play it daily.

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Originally Posted by Bunny_Girl

Choosing to play in premade teams is fine, but it's not a license to prey on players who queuing up solo. Fairness matters. Letting pre-mades face each other.

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It is fair... everyone has access to the same tools.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

It is fair... everyone has access to the same tools.

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One can define it as fair simply because it's currently legal, but it's not desirable. My one and done today featured Slark and the Princesses engaging in a completely pointless and boring massacre of the other two teams. It's just shitty gameplay carried out in this specific case by shitty people.

(To be 100% clear, I don't think you're remotely shitty, Olivia. These Q-synching clowns, a group of which vote-kicked me when I hadn't typed a thing in chat, are the absolute dregs of the FL community.)

It's fair because everyone has the choice to group up, to make calls, and to play a strong job.

You're free to not do these things, but not doing so is handicapping yourself. If you're wanting to win, you can't really complain when not taking advantage of these things.

Aa for if it's desirable... generally, I think so. I want people to work more closely together and improve their gameplay so we can move on to new strategies and tactics.

I don't think premades are incredibly strong. I think it is the playerbase that is incredibly weak. They die over and over to the same setup, and don't start wondering how to stop it, counter it, or use it themselves.