Betrayal and Wuk Lamat

I suspect we're going to be betrayed by Wuk Lamat.

Consider: she apparently had to come to a distant land to obtain skilled killers to support her political agenda. And that's what we are, killers. Put someone or something on our Hunt List or offer us a sack of nuts for it, and we go kill it. She didn't want us for our verbal or written communication skills.

She specifically sought out people who knew nothing of her and nothing of her nation's politics. Now why is that? And as foreigners who, being brought in to her country to interfere with it's political succession, are likely to receive a cold reception, we're likely to learn the truth, right?

Why couldn't she get the support she needed back home?

And her personality: so brash, so boastful, so seemingly insecure ... that's a princess in line for the throne? Or is it a faked immaturity meant to lull us into carelessness?

It's all very suspicious. I don't trust her one bit.

That would make Erenville her accomplice though, since he is vouching for her good intentions.

What would even be the point of betrayal? She wants our help getting the Throne so her evil brother can't get it first, assuming we do that why would she betray us? How? Would she sell the location of the Golden City to someone else or something? Heck it wouldn't get very far since she told us bringing in foreigners was not frowned upon but outright encouraged so if we got there and people were giving us the cold shoulder it'd be pretty obvious she was lying.

Like, yeah, don't trust her or whatever but how could she even betray us in the first place when we're using her as a petty excuse to go to Tural?

It's not like we're poisoned and only she has the antidote or something.

We don't know that we're killing anybody, it could just be another Naadam.

Also she's too cute and silly to become a villain.

Something these writers would never be brave enough to do. We'll show up, the other party will be clear bad guys doing villain stuff, maybe summon a primal or two, we'll beat them up and that'll be that.

I could see several ways for her to be less open/upfront than she initially seems during the course of the story but an outright betrayal without an outside force twisting her arm feels like a stretch just because there's very little motive for it. It helps her case that Erenville is vouching for her; unless she's also going to shiv him in the back, we've seen more of his character than we have of hers and a knowing betrayal would run counter to what we've seen of it.

I don't expect her brother to be exactly what she says, mind, she's not exactly an unbiased source, and I do expect the conflict between them to end up more nuanced (or for her to just be wrong in her character assessment for whatever reason).

Took the given materials and made something impossible out if it.

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Originally Posted by Rudje

I could see several ways for her to be less open/upfront than she initially seems ... It helps her case that Erenville is vouching for her; unless she's also going to shiv him in the back, we've seen more of his character than we have of hers and a knowing betrayal would run counter to what we've seen of it.

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Do we really know Erenville any better than we knew Ilberd?

And also, note that Erenville doesn't seem particularly enthusiastic about Wuk's plan. He's been busy being a gleener, and may not be current on Wuk Lmat's doings; it's possible she's is using him, too.

Not saying it'll happen, but for the people wondering why she'd bother; A tyrant put in power by the efforts of someone else will usually want to get rid of that someone else as they have already demonstrated the ability to make sure the tyrant gets replaced.

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Originally Posted by Embran

True, not once has this game ever had a trusted ally turn on us. Nope, not a single time. Cowardly writers.

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There was Ilberd, which was kind of a big deal in changing the direction of the story, indirectly leading to Y'shtola and Thancred to be disabled and Minfilia to be taken by Hydaelyn, and directly caused the story to go into 2 expansions and indirectly a 3rd.

His betrayal was such a big deal that I doubt they'll do it twice since it's already tread ground story-wise.

Yeah like. If they do go for coldly calculated betrayal they're going to need to fight the Ilberd... 2!! allegations the entire way. He literally directly influenced two expansions and also got exactly what he wanted in the end even if it killed him to get it. Ilberd is such a huge deal that for another betrayal to hit in the same way it would have to come after even more story establishing friendship and camaraderie and also foreshadowing not... a x.55 quest plus whatever Wuk Lamat gets in 7.0. And Erenville literally decided to go to a foreign country, take a job that would require him to leave it often, have specific assignments given by people who aren't him or linked to his home, and rarely enter settled areas (so not great for spywork), and generally seems fine with that as long as he and his coworkers aren't being overworked and mistreated. That doesn't speak to great political ambition.

It's not impossible, to be clear. But I think it's not very likely and it's more likely that any conflict with Wuk Lamat specifically will be more straightforward.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

There was Ilberd, which was kind of a big deal in changing the direction of the story, indirectly leading to Y'shtola and Thancred to be disabled and Minfilia to be taken by Hydaelyn, and directly caused the story to go into 2 expansions and indirectly a 3rd.

His betrayal was such a big deal that I doubt they'll do it twice since it's already tread ground story-wise.

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I don't think Wuk Lamat is going to betray us at all. She might indirectly screw us over because of her naivete. I just thought the insinuation that the writers are "too scared" to have a betrayal was funny.

It would be a nice twist if she is actually the evil one and she tricked us and erenville but I doubt the writers are brave enough to have any twists like that. They tend to play it very safe when it comes to plot deveopments.

We haven't had a death or major betrayal since stormblood at least

I doubt she'll be betraying us. If there's any conflict with Wuk Lamat, it'll more likely be us butting heads with what she wants to do due to her ambitions and naivety.

My prediction is the actual antagonist will be Wuk Lamat's brother or some other competitor we'll be introduced to, but not because they're our opponent in the competition, but because they has ulterior motives. Crap will hit the fan leading up to the second trial, Thancred, Urianger and whoever else were helping them will be thoroughly disgusted with what they had a hand in and will rejoin the WoL to atone, and this will all lead into the next major storyline and take us to whatever that weird futuristic area that Solution Nine is a part of, and the Golden City.

I actual thought about this too. (>▽<)
It's more of a wishful thought where I want them to subvert our expectations.

I don't think she is scheming or has ill intent, but Wuk Lamat is absolutely putting on a face, and not being honest about her wants. She has too much of an adventurer's heart to be the leader of a nation. She just wants to eat, and hunt. I have a feeling team Wuk is gonna fail early on in the story which will cause a lot of tension.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

She has too much of an adventurer's heart to be the leader of a nation.

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See I got the exact opposite impression of her, to me she was just putting on an act to try and 'fit in' with us, hence the trembling hand and terror in the face of danger, if anything I imagine she's actually a dweeb under it all and just wants to look cool.

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Originally Posted by Boa-Noah

See I got the exact opposite impression of her, to me she was just putting on an act to try and 'fit in' with us, hence the trembling hand and terror in the face of danger, if anything I imagine she's actually a dweeb under it all and just wants to look cool.

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If the Man who Survived the 8th, Helped Make the 1st Be saved in the first place, and saw Darkest Calamity/Deepest Despair was able to sus her facade(regardless of its origin)

I doubt it had to do with Anything But A Lack of Experience in such situations.

Not(hing) like hunting(/training) in Royal Forests, Prospective Ruler.

<aka, agreed. If you were adopted by the ruler if a Head of state, along with many various Children's of different Origins. You definitely will rub more Educated in managing separate People's than dealing with anything out if nowhere like Adventurers.>

PS/AKA/Edit:

G'Raha could Sus out a shook/shocked cat. or Prospective Politician/Leader out of hiding.

Different take:

Wuk Lamat is just as she is and the real villain will be the mysterious girl at the top of this poster:

https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...kOu1G5_hGU.jpg

Who I am predicting is the leader of Solution 9.

I mean to be entirely honest she did come to a Foreign Country and asked her to help us rig her election in her favor.

I do not believe SE is smart enough to write this but damn is it funny to think about.

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Originally Posted by Boa-Noah

See I got the exact opposite impression of her, to me she was just putting on an act to try and 'fit in' with us, hence the trembling hand and terror in the face of danger, if anything I imagine she's actually a dweeb under it all and just wants to look cool.

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Mao agrees. Is why Mao gonna bring all Mao brushes for the brushings of furs with Mao to the new lands. Mao thinkings Mao will has do much brushings to cheer Lady Fuzzy Cat ups. Also, Mao hopings for chance to beats Thancred ups. Mao still angrys at him for being rude to Ryne.

Yeah I don't really like how we're forced to go along with her plan.

I bet $5 that her betrayal will be her not paying us for winning the throne for her.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Also she's too cute and silly to become a villain.

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So true! Now let's go awaken those crystals!
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/br...y_Sticker2.png

Wuk Lamat will eventually realize she's a poor fit for a country's leader, surrender her claim in favor of a more fitting candidate, and join the Scions more permanently.

Okay, not likely, I just want some new long-term characters that aren't elezen and miqo'te, damnit.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I mean to be entirely honest she did come to a Foreign Country and asked her to help us rig her election in her favor.

I do not believe SE is smart enough to write this but damn is it funny to think about.

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It’s not like her brother didn’t do the exact same thing and hire other Scions as well. She probably heard about his plan and came to do it on her own too since he’s been established in Sharlayan far longer.

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Originally Posted by Ryvick

Different take:

Wuk Lamat is just as she is and the real villain will be the mysterious girl at the top of this poster:

https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...kOu1G5_hGU.jpg

Who I am predicting is the leader of Solution 9.

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That's what I think too. And the Mamool Ja at the bottom is the heir that wants to go to war with Eorzea and is probably being manipulated by her. °˖✧◝(⁰▿⁰)◜✧˖°

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Originally Posted by Embran

I just thought the insinuation that the writers are "too scared" to have a betrayal was funny.

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That was a very different time when it comes to this game's story writing.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Wuk Lamat will eventually realize she's a poor fit for a country's leader, surrender her claim in favor of a more fitting candidate ...

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Good point: "poor fit for a country's ruler" is a logical conclusion from "needs foreigners with no knowledge of or stake in the country to support her."

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Originally Posted by Bun_Vivant

Good point: "poor fit for a country's ruler" is a logical conclusion from "needs foreigners with no knowledge of or stake in the country to support her."

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I've seen other stories that justified hiring foreigners for succession fights. For example, in Fire Emblem Awakening, the clan leaders of Ferox hire foreign mercenaries because having the clan leaders fight it out themselves just leads to blood feuds that drag the nation into civil wars, while hiring the right foreigners shows they know how to assess their neighbors and recognize talent and strength outside of their own clans. Time will tell if Dawntrail does anything about it, or if we're just there as an adventure hook.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I've seen other stories that justified hiring foreigners for succession fights. For example, in Fire Emblem Awakening, the clan leaders of Ferox hire foreign mercenaries because having the clan leaders fight it out themselves just leads to blood feuds that drag the nation into civil wars, while hiring the right foreigners shows they know how to assess their neighbors and recognize talent and strength outside of their own clans. Time will tell if Dawntrail does anything about it, or if we're just there as an adventure hook.

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It wouldn't be the first time our WoL has been hired out as a mercenary in a political struggle either.

Prince Hien used us to uproot the entire political status quo of a whole race of people just so he could have them as his army to reclaim his throne. Just like now, it was in our own interest to help him because doing so drew Garlean attention away from Ala Mhigo, which was arguably more personally important to us. And now we have a warmonger who wants to bring an army to our homeland while the three great continents are weak from multiple wars so we have an interest to at least check out to see what's going on.

Using the WOL to win the support of the xaela tribes was as you say beneficial to the WOL because it allowed the far east to draw attention away from Ala mhigo. As it stands right now the WOL has absolutely zero stake in this conflict. The dialogue of the WOL also shows that they continue to grow tired of being used as a mindless weapon for the leaders of the world so it’ll definitely be important to the story as to whether this conflict actually draws the WOL in in a meaningful way

Right now we only have Wuk’s assurance that one of the other competitors wants to invade the 3 great continents but that could simply be used as a hook to draw in the scions

Actually meaningfully engaging with the WOL as a sentiment human is I think something the game needs to focus on going forward

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Originally Posted by Bun_Vivant

Do we really know Erenville any better than we knew Ilberd?

And also, note that Erenville doesn't seem particularly enthusiastic about Wuk's plan. He's been busy being a gleener, and may not be current on Wuk Lmat's doings; it's possible she's is using him, too.

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I mean, Ilberd basically had a giant red sign reading VILLAIN above his head the entire time. It was very clear he'd turn out to be a traitor. Wuk doesn't read like that to me. You're giving the writers way too much credit.

I think it is Erenville that has bad intentions.... there is something about that guy...

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Prince Hien used us to uproot the entire political status quo of a whole race of people just so he could have them as his army to reclaim his throne.

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We went to the Far East in the first place to start a revolution and split the Empire's attention from Ala Mhigo, so it was more a case of mutual interests.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

I think it is Erenville that has bad intentions.... there is something about that guy...

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I'm don't think he's the bad sibling who was mentioned but something does seem off. Did you notice how Erenville described his relationship with Wuk compared to how Wuk described it?

*SPOILER ALERT*

Wuk said they were thick as thieves since they were little. Erenville said they were long standing acquaintances, nothing more.

:confused:

my greatest fear is that they kill her off. and her betraying us would lead to that so pls, pls nooo

(my suspicion is that either one of the siblings wins and then shit hits the fan in a way that they have a very hard time handling even with our help)

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Originally Posted by Ancalagon_Blacktalon

my greatest fear is that they kill her off. and her betraying us would lead to that so pls, pls nooo

(my suspicion is that either one of the siblings wins and then shit hits the fan in a way that they have a very hard time handling even with our help)

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hmm, maybe a 'sibling assassinates their father, takes control and poop hits the fan'. Classic, but has lots of potential. Also, the tech savvy brother and Section 9? Unleashes some ancient evil? Good stuff :D

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

As it stands right now the WOL has absolutely zero stake in this conflict.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

We went to the Far East in the first place to start a revolution and split the Empire's attention from Ala Mhigo, so it was more a case of mutual interests.

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My whole point is that there is mutual interest.

Firstly there’s the whole thing about the sibling who wants to invade us if he wins the throne. In addition, we’re going because of the letter Krile has and promise of adventure. We also got involved in Azdaja’s whole thing because of a promise of adventure and accidentally broke something.

There’s more than one reason to motivate the WoL to go west and I don’t believe for a second they’d prefer to twiddle their thumbs in Sharlayan or dance in Limsa Lominsa when we’ve been invited to be an actual adventurer again in a place we’ve never been to before that is referenced by Emet-Selch in his last words to us with the potential for treasure while at the same time a potential invasion is at stake.

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Originally Posted by Hoban 'Wash' Washburne

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

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Wuk Lamat!

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

My whole point is that there is mutual interest.

Firstly there’s the whole thing about the sibling who wants to invade us if he wins the throne.

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There's a chance we're being lied to about that. It would make for an interesting story.