Marking People In PvP

I witnessed an amusing argument in the Frontline roulette today. Some guy trying to lead (I guess?) kept placing the triangle marker icon on some other guy. The marked guy apparently did not want this mark and took it off, saying he didn't want to be marked. The "leader" marked him again. They got into an argument over the marking icon which persisted throughout the entire match.

While this was hilarious to observe, it made me wonder--I'm guessing there's no way to prevent yourself from being marked if you do not wish to be?

Indeed there is no way to hide yourself from being marked other than not being in that party (or alliance I guess if it's pvp).
I can mark anyone I walk across anything I want. They won't see it unless they're in a party with me.

I'm guessing the one being marked was some random DRK, and the person trying to lead assumed that said individual was going to be a pro-initiator with the DRK jump/draw-in.

I see people randomly mark DRKs throughout the alliance... It's funny when said DRKs don't do anything and clearly don't know what they're doing. There seems to be this stigma in many cases thanks to the DRK premade meta where people coming on DRK are expected to lead the alliance and function in that capacity for the rest of the alliance. Can't say I envy them. Mind you, this isn't all the time, but I see it often enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

I witnessed an amusing argument in the Frontline roulette today. Some guy trying to lead (I guess?) kept placing the triangle marker icon on some other guy. The marked guy apparently did not want this mark and took it off, saying he didn't want to be marked. The "leader" marked him again. They got into an argument over the marking icon which persisted throughout the entire match.

While this was hilarious to observe, it made me wonder--I'm guessing there's no way to prevent yourself from being marked if you do not wish to be?

---

I'll sometimes drop a triangle on a random DRK in the hope they're competent. At the least it provides the possibility the team might stick together. Equally, if they remove it, that's fair enough. I'm not dropping it on them again.

It's not just DRKs that people mark. I've occasionally seen people troll the alliance by marking a random person with the sprout or returner symbol, because they find it funny when the entire alliance follows a clueless sprout.

Really, if the person wanted to be marked, they would probably mark themselves. If you want to mark a dark, you should probably ask first.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cidel

I'm guessing the one being marked was some random DRK, and the person trying to lead assumed that said individual was going to be a pro-initiator with the DRK jump/draw-in.

I see people randomly mark DRKs throughout the alliance... It's funny when said DRKs don't do anything and clearly don't know what they're doing. There seems to be this stigma in many cases thanks to the DRK premade meta where people coming on DRK are expected to lead the alliance and function in that capacity for the rest of the alliance. Can't say I envy them. Mind you, this isn't all the time, but I see it often enough.

---

There is a world of difference between commanding and just wearing a mark to make you a bit easier to see for those who do want to make use of anything you voke. Just because you wear a mark for the latter, it doesn't mean you have to take complete responsibility for the former. Yes, sometimes it is a total waste of time when you mark a DRK and they spend the entire game just destroying ice and don't voke a single player at all. It can often work the opposite way too: a DRK will mark themselves to make them and their vokes easier to see, only for the rest of the team to completely ignore it. Sadly, that's just how it goes with some random matches and the lack of teamwork within random teams is one thing contributing towards the huge imbalances in some games.

Though if they've marked someone and that person has removed it themselves, then I wouldn't mark them again - it's obvious they don't want it, they aren't going to keep it (even if it would do a bit to help the team), and it will likely just lead to an even more unhelpful and distracting argument.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jessica_VS

Huh, it's weird that there's no way to prevent oneself from being marked, though I suppose the expectation is for everyone in a party/alliance to be working together rather than getting into fights about marks.

The whole affair was hilarious because I have: A, never seen someone so adamant about not being marked before; B, never seen someone so adamant about marking somebody else before. They spent the entire match yelling at each other and marking and unmarking each other. Somehow the team still came into second place.

---

Marking wars can definitely break out. I've even seen a commander claim in chat that their waymark was being removed, although I don't see how that is actually possible. I think what it boils down to is a culture war between those who want to see FL as a highly-organized, commander-driven exercise, and those who prefer something more chaotic. That said, while I'm mostly in the latter camp, I wouldn't get involved in these marker shenanigans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Really, if the person wanted to be marked, they would probably mark themselves. If you want to mark a dark, you should probably ask first.

---

But you've trained everyone so well to follow their DRK!

Fair point, though. About my 5th game as WAR someone dropped a marker on me, so I just told them I had no idea what I was doing. They responded I was the only WAR we had.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mawlzy

But you've trained everyone so well to follow their DRK!

Fair point, though. About my 5th game as WAR someone dropped a marker on me, so I just told them I had no idea what I was doing. They responded I was the only WAR we had.

---

Their reasoning doesn't seem sound. Putting a marker on someone who can't or won't lead just seems like a recipe for disaster

I hope with the blacklist improvements they include markers. So that way, if you blacklist someone, they can't mark you. It would solve the problem easily.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hexxxx

I hope with the blacklist improvements they include markers. So that way, if you blacklist someone, they can't mark you. It would solve the problem easily.

---

If blacklist worked as an actual blacklist it would prevent you getting placed on the same team as someone you blacklisted. I also like your idea.

DELETE SALTED EARTH, problem solved we are 1 year in and salted earth is still a thing. I dont understand how 1 single class move directs the whole game, this is just bad design. fix your game square enix. The only people to blame are dev, they are absolute lazy fucks.

Getting marked is why I stopped playing DRK in PVP (despite how busted it truly is), because I can not and will not play leader for people. It's the same reason I don't tank in general, because I don't know the first thing about shot-calling and such, and don't want to be the one taking all the blame when we inevitably lose/wipe.

In a similar vein though, marking has also helped me to avoid pointless matches. People keep marking someone named Olivia on the enemy team and that's my cue to take the leaver penalty because the fight is already over in the first couple of minutes, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

In a similar vein though, marking has also helped me to avoid pointless matches. People keep marking someone named Olivia on the enemy team and that's my cue to take the leaver penalty because the fight is already over in the first couple of minutes, lol.

---

I wonder who that Olivia person is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

I wonder who that Olivia person is.

---

Got to be some Russian troll imposter, definitely not you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

I wonder who that Olivia person is.

---

Ah... I didn't know you used the forums.

But yeah, it's pretty much a given at this point that if I know you're on an enemy team, it's a waste to keep trying and it's less painful to just leave, and if you somehow end up on my team, I can literally just follow on my mount and win while doing nothing, there really isn't an in-between when it comes to you specifically and I wouldn't be surprised if you can't even remember that last time you lost a match (or even died during one), lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Ah... I didn't know you used the forums.

But yeah, it's pretty much a given at this point that if I know you're on an enemy team, it's a waste to keep trying and it's less painful to just leave, and if you somehow end up on my team, I can literally just follow on my mount and win while doing nothing, there really isn't an in-between when it comes to you specifically and I wouldn't be surprised if you can't even remember that last time you lost a match (or even died during one), lol.

---

Make sure you're not actually doing nothing ;-; winning is a team effort! My WR hangs around 60-70% and I die once or twice every few matches... though it's more from being greedy >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Ah... I didn't know you used the forums.

But yeah, it's pretty much a given at this point that if I know you're on an enemy team, it's a waste to keep trying and it's less painful to just leave, and if you somehow end up on my team, I can literally just follow on my mount and win while doing nothing, there really isn't an in-between when it comes to you specifically and I wouldn't be surprised if you can't even remember that last time you lost a match (or even died during one), lol.

---

I think the important thing to understand is that, when you're on Olivia's team, you're simply playing a minor cameo role. The only WoL on the field is Olivia, and we might as well be having a cup of tea at the spawn point or waving pom-poms.

It's all grimly reminiscent of why my planned career on the stage fell apart.

The school was putting on Sleeping Beauty, and naturally I was heavily tipped to land the eponymous role, thanks to my long, elegant limbs and pleasing disposition. So I was a both stunned and devastated when the cast list was sent round and I see, towards the bottom:

Katherine Mawlz: Tree

That wasn't a character's name, I was an actual tree in Act 2.

Naturally I button-holed the head of English asking if there'd be some sort of mistake, but no, that was my role.

The good news was that after the performance, the aforementioned head of English complimented me on my swaying, and told me she was sure I'd have a bigger role the following year.

So what happens? We do Cinderella, and as a method actor I spend several weeks wearing glass slippers and so forth, expecting the lead role.

Cast list comes out.

Katherine Mawlz: Third Vagrant.

That's pretty much my job on Olivia's teams. Third vagrant.

Which is why I go fishing.

Sorry you feel that way, but you're the one choosing to place so much emphasis on me and so little on others. Every individual who is doing their best is a valued member of the team.

It takes a team to win the game. I can only assume insidious intentions by suggesting players should be complacent just because I'm calling. Truly, I can call as much as I like, go in on the enemy as often as I can, but if the team isn't with me than I'm useless.

I am glad that I have enough reputation and enough people trust in my calls to lead effectively, but there are short comings to having everyone in one big jumble, so I don't hesitate to call out and praise the people who successfully stalled out the rest of a node, or went and gathered other small ice. There's the people that call out they'll be the bait, or reserve their LB's to stop enemy pulls who have major impact in the outcome of a match.

Even if you're part of the main force. We need multiple darks to ensure one of gets in and gather the enemies, multiple guard breaks staggered out to keep up aggression and everyone is responsible for dealing as much damage as they can.

It's a team game. The more people that cordinate and cooperate, the higher chance they have of winning. I happen to be quite adept at facilitating these things.
Since you've mentioned several times about new callers being bad, I've started searching for those willing to be personally taught by some veteran callers, so I hope you look forward to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

It takes a team to win the game. I can only assume insidious intentions by suggesting players should be complacent just because I'm calling. Truly, I can call as much as I like, go in on the enemy as often as I can, but if the team isn't with me than I'm useless.

...

It's a team game. The more people that cordinate and cooperate, the higher chance they have of winning. I happen to be quite adept at facilitating these things.
Since you've mentioned several times about new callers being bad, I've started searching for those willing to be personally taught by some veteran callers, so I hope you look forward to it.

---

My only intention is to emphasize that being on your premade-dominated "team" makes my contribution largely irrelevant and consequently my enjoyment non-existent. I know others who feel the same. I'm also aware you have a fan club, and am sure your presence is a boon to those farming wins for achievements/rewards. For anyone interested in a balanced, competitive match, you are a nightmare.

I understand that if the other 20 of us didn't trail around after you like lemmings that this would cut into your win-rate, but frankly most of your conscripts are simply cannon fodder, absorbing the damage as you and your premade "scoot back a bit."

The weakness of many of the new callers has made me better appreciate your map awareness, but I certainly am not looking forward to Olivia clones further reducing FL to a pregame toss of a 3-sided die. Besides, since I assume they will be dutifully spamming your noisy macros, I'll be blacklisting them.

As an aside, SE we *really* need the ability to mute in instance. Olivia, I tried turning off system sounds, but I need to hear some sounds on the same channel like my LB ready ding.

Please look forward to it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Please look forward to it

---

That sounds like a threat. I'm resigned to it; you've made your intentions very clear. Only pop music and SE can save me now.

The only marking war I've gotten in has been for the chain1-3 icon. I like to use them to mark enemy DRKs to watch their moves. It's handy for when I am primed to Meteodrive them and disrupt their engage. But people also use those marks occasionally for dps focus as well, so I have to reapply them to track major players. No keyboard battles have happened over it, I just had to be more mindful of who had what.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Make sure you're not actually doing nothing ;-; winning is a team effort! My WR hangs around 60-70% and I die once or twice every few matches... though it's more from being greedy >.>

---

Eh, I wouldn't put much stock into my own contributions with or without you on the field, given I've gone some weeks with a dozen matches with maybe 1 win out of them all, lol.

Campaigns: 667
First Place: 215(Victory Rate: 32.2%)
Second Place: 231(Victory Rate: 34.6%)
Third Place: 218(Victory Rate: 32.6%)

Hell, my personal kill count only recently started going up/my deaths going down when I went MCH full time. Still doesn't mean my staying alive and taking people out (even key ones) made much of a difference in most matches though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Eh, I wouldn't put much stock into my own contributions with or without you on the field, given I've gone some weeks with a dozen matches with maybe 1 win out of them all, lol.

Campaigns: 667
First Place: 215(Victory Rate: 32.2%)
Second Place: 231(Victory Rate: 34.6%)
Third Place: 218(Victory Rate: 32.6%)

Hell, my personal kill count only recently started going up/my deaths going down when I went MCH full time. Still doesn't mean my staying alive and taking people out (even key ones) made much of a difference in most matches though.

---

The stats you are supposed to have. My first place has never varied by more than a couple of tenths from 33.3% over 2000+ matches. Given that in the majority of my matches I have the best K/D/A for the job I play, it's clear that anyone with a 70%- win-rate is simply exploiting a (for now) legal loophole. And making the mode pointless for everyone else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Eh, I wouldn't put much stock into my own contributions with or without you on the field, given I've gone some weeks with a dozen matches with maybe 1 win out of them all, lol.

Campaigns: 667
First Place: 215(Victory Rate: 32.2%)
Second Place: 231(Victory Rate: 34.6%)
Third Place: 218(Victory Rate: 32.6%)

Hell, my personal kill count only recently started going up/my deaths going down when I went MCH full time. Still doesn't mean my staying alive and taking people out (even key ones) made much of a difference in most matches though.

---

That's really not a lot of games. You still have lots of room to improve! And, when everyone is attacking together, the amount of damage that everyone needs to do goes down significantly. If all you can manage is a chain saw or a bioblaster into a pull before you run to safety that's a huge boon for the team!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

That's really not a lot of games. You still have lots of room to improve! And, when everyone is attacking together, the amount of damage that everyone needs to do goes down significantly. If all you can manage is a chain saw or a bioblaster into a pull before you run to safety that's a huge boon for the team!

---

Were you a cheerleader in college, Olivia? I have to say I admire this rah-rah positivity you spread, particularly in the face of the growing hostility to your playstyle. But you do seem to have a pleasing disposition. I see you baking bread in an Upper MidWest kitchen, trying to keep the cigarette ash out of the dough as you pound it into submission via coordinated LBs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Were you a cheerleader in college, Olivia? I have to say I admire this rah-rah positivity you spread, particularly in the face of the growing hostility to your playstyle. But you do seem to have a pleasing disposition. I see you baking bread in an Upper MidWest kitchen, trying to keep the cigarette ash out of the dough as you pound it into submission via coordinated LBs.

---

If I was who I am now maybe XD
No reason not to cheer on anyone who wants to improve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

If I was who I am now maybe XD
No reason not to cheer on anyone who wants to improve.

---

A rare moment of concordance. I just hope your approach doesn't remove the will of others to improve.

I would much rather Olivia's approach, then the disorganized, headless chicken approach of some (most) games I've seen, with people seemingly blind to score, position or map status.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

I would much rather Olivia's approach, then the disorganized, headless chicken approach of some (most) games I've seen, with people seemingly blind to score, position or map status.

---

When you remove the head of the chicken (Olivia), you're left with many players who have never learned to read the map or consider the score. Simply following orders doesn't increase the skill of such players. Quite the reverse. More to the point, it's perfectly possible for multiple people to provide suggestions and reminders, rather than this all-powerful, self-appointed general with a locked-on premade, which typically determines the outcome of the match before it has even started. At least Napoleon provided regular meals. Until that Russian business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mawlzy

When you remove the head of the chicken (Olivia), you're left with many players who have never learned to read the map or consider the score. Simply following orders doesn't increase the skill of such players. Quite the reverse. More to the point, it's perfectly possible for multiple people to provide suggestions and reminders, rather than this all-powerful, self-appointed general with a locked-on premade, which typically determines the outcome of the match before it has even started. At least Napoleon provided regular meals. Until that Russian business.

---

That's really no different. Whether it is one person leading or leading by committee, it's still having some form of leadership, trying to drive the company to stick together and attack as a group. Except leadership by committee doesn't work when you get conflicting goals shouted out.
Compare to the people who show up to pvp and don't want to learn, don't want to improve and have no interest in actually pvping. It's a complete drain, landing in those teams. So, yes, give me Olivia's approach any day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

That's really no different. Whether it is one person leading or leading by committee, it's still having some form of leadership, trying to drive the company to stick together and attack as a group. Except leadership by committee doesn't work when you get conflicting goals shouted out.
Compare to the people who show up to pvp and don't want to learn, don't want to improve and have no interest in actually pvping. It's a complete drain, landing in those teams. So, yes, give me Olivia's approach any day.

---

I'm sure we'd all like people who enter FL to make some effort and ultimately improve. I'm convinced Olivia's approach is one of the reasons that such improvements are not happening. I'm certainly not getting any better at the mode when her presence compels me to leave. Neither are those who note in chat that the premade is on another team, and suggest we throw to get it over as quick as possible.

The simplest path to have FL populated by people who want to PvP is to remove all the rewards and XP. "But it would kill the mode!" We don't know that. Many people engage with FF14 content because they actually enjoy it. And if queue times get long, make the teams smaller. That'd be an improvement anyway, I suspect.

I do understand the attraction of more organized matches, but the people who don't try and don't care are still there when a premade commander is on the field. The amount of AFKing during this Mogtome thing is terrible. In parallel to that, there are people who do care about PvP, but who have no interest in playing in matches with Olivia and her cohorts as they hijack the mode for their own ends. It's not a competitive contest when the winning team is determined by the location of the premade, and in which the contributions from those not in that premade are largely irrelevant. It's nice that Olivia cheers them on. I'm sure sports coaches provide encouragement to players who spend most of their time warming the bench.

I will give Olivia the benefit of the doubt on this and believe her when she says she is trying to make the games better. But lurking on Discord for the last year or so has made it very clear to me that this is not the motivation of 90% of those in premades. The attitudes are frankly sickening and detract from my enjoyment of the entire game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

That's really not a lot of games. You still have lots of room to improve! And, when everyone is attacking together, the amount of damage that everyone needs to do goes down significantly. If all you can manage is a chain saw or a bioblaster into a pull before you run to safety that's a huge boon for the team!

---

Nah... I hit my skill cap a long time ago, and I'm kinda tired of thinking that's going to change so I've been dozing through matches lately because I just want to get my mogtomes/series XP and leave already.