Paladin vs. Warrior in Garuda fight

Hello, fellow Paladins.

Our Linkshell has been trying to defeat Garuda for a while now. Haven't been able to defeat her yet but we are getting closer and closer :o Last time we tried it, we decided to change our Paladin tank (me) to a damage dealer Warrior. So we used the Warrior as a tank and it turned out that he might have kept hate a bit better than my Paladin.
And I think that I have a decent Paladin gear:

Weapon : Cobalt Winglet (Enmity materia +37)
Shield : Thormoen's Purpose
Head : Gallant Coronet (could be better but thats what I'm currently using)
Body : Cobalt Cuirass (HP materia +60)
Hands : Sentinel's Gauntlets (HP materia +65)
Waist : Sentinel's Plate Belt (Enmity materia +18)
Legs : Felt Trousers (HP materia +60)
Feet : Sentinel's Sabatons (HP materia +65)

Ears : Stonewall Earrings
Neck : Stonewall Chocker
Wrists : Coral Armillae +1
Ring R. : Electrum Ring
Ring L. : Stonewall Ring

Is there any tips to improve my gear? I of course know that Darklight gear would be really nice and I could get double melds to certain items (like the belt) but would increasing enmity actually help that much? From our experience agains Garuda we have noticed that the damage dealer Warrior (He does not have Darklight. Some double melds and few expensive pieces) is better than my current Paladin.

Suggestions? Should I double meld Cobalt Celata with MND and buy few damage dealing accessories? Should I really buy Stom Lieutenant's Cutlass for damage and accuracy? etc. etc. Thanks for your help!

STR on hands would work a lot better for holding hate than HP, would be good if you aimed for at least +30 or more. Also, it would help if you swapped out the stonewall ring for another accuracy ring so it helps with missing. Curing yourself and others often also helps a lot with enmity. Getting a double melded enmity on a belt also works wonders and if you aim for about +40 you'll notice the difference. PLD is a good choice for Garuda, I wouldn't think you need to change that.
But, the problem could also be with the rest of your party. For example, although WAR is fine in some parties, replacing him with a well geared DRG might be better for your party just because it can kill faster. Also helps if your BRD's are saving TP for uncombo'd rain of death when the plumes spawn.

Finally got around to doing Garuda seriously tonight and I got it done 3rd try. Not all that hard if you got a party who knows what to do.

My group has mostly consisted of 2x BRD, 1x WHM, 1x DRG, 2x BLM, 1x WAR, 1x PLD/WAR (me). From a personal standpoint I've had an easier time holding hate on PLD than WAR, both jobs having similar stats.

From a technical standpoint, I think PLD is stronger in this fight because PLD has more frontal combos making it easier to damage Garuda and hold hate without turning her around. WAR suffers in this part because over half it's combos require them to move to utilize their combos, and many times the party wants you to save Steel Cyclone to assist with plumes reducing their DPS and ability to produce hate overall, that and PLD has two hate combos that have higher hate modifiers than Skull Sunderer's combo.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

My group has mostly consisted of 2x BRD, 1x WHM, 1x DRG, 2x BLM, 1x WAR, 1x PLD/WAR (me). From a personal standpoint I've had an easier time holding hate on PLD than WAR, both jobs having similar stats.

From a technical standpoint, I think PLD is stronger in this fight because PLD has more frontal combos making it easier to damage Garuda and hold hate without turning her around. WAR suffers in this part because over half it's combos require them to move to utilize their combos, and many times the party wants you to save Steel Cyclone to assist with plumes reducing their DPS and ability to produce hate overall, that and PLD has two hate combos that have higher hate modifiers than Skull Sunderer's combo.

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Awesome, I like that :) But do you think that upgrading my gear like Amy suggested is a good option? What kind of gear do you have?

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Originally Posted by Zenchiro

Hello, fellow Paladins.

Our Linkshell has been trying to defeat Garuda for a while now. Haven't been able to defeat her yet but we are getting closer and closer :o Last time we tried it, we decided to change our Paladin tank (me) to a damage dealer Warrior. So we used the Warrior as a tank and it turned out that he might have kept hate a bit better than my Paladin.
And I think that I have a decent Paladin gear:

Weapon : Cobalt Winglet (Enmity materia +37)
Shield : Thormoen's Purpose
Head : Gallant Coronet (could be better but thats what I'm currently using)
Body : Cobalt Cuirass (HP materia +60)
Hands : Sentinel's Gauntlets (HP materia +65)
Waist : Sentinel's Plate Belt (Enmity materia +18)
Legs : Felt Trousers (HP materia +60)
Feet : Sentinel's Sabatons (HP materia +65)

Ears : Stonewall Earrings
Neck : Stonewall Chocker
Wrists : Coral Armillae +1
Ring R. : Electrum Ring
Ring L. : Stonewall Ring

Is there any tips to improve my gear? I of course know that Darklight gear would be really nice and I could get double melds to certain items (like the belt) but would increasing enmity actually help that much? From our experience agains Garuda we have noticed that the damage dealer Warrior (He does not have Darklight. Some double melds and few expensive pieces) is better than my current Paladin.

Suggestions? Should I double meld Cobalt Celata with MND and buy few damage dealing accessories? Should I really buy Stom Lieutenant's Cutlass for damage and accuracy? etc. etc. Thanks for your help!

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PLD generally hold better single target threat than WARs. i wouldnt suggest replacing HP with STR like amy said because as a pld you generally need alot of hp, accuracy, and emnity. Accuracy is extremely important for tanks but u really wanna get that from accessories mostly.

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Originally Posted by Malix

PLD generally hold better single target threat than WARs. i wouldnt suggest replacing HP with STR like amy said because as a pld you generally need alot of hp, accuracy, and emnity. Accuracy is extremely important for tanks but u really wanna get that from accessories mostly.

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Not for Garuda. It's a very low damage fight in comparison to most others. I healed a PLD with not a single HP meld and there were times that I didn't need to heal for a whole minute. This fight is also a DPS race so any extra damage that the PLD can add can only benefit. Most other fights on the other hand, it's a very different story.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Not for Garuda. It's a very low damage fight in comparison to most others. I healed a PLD with not a single HP meld and there were times that I didn't need to heal for a whole minute. This fight is also a DPS race so any extra damage that the PLD can add can only benefit. Most other fights on the other hand, it's a very different story.

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That 30 extra STR doesnt do much if your not gearing for caps which pld doesnt need/want to do. As far as dps race goes if u need that much more dps you either need to get better dps or get a warrior tank. From the looks of it the biggest thing thats hurting him is Acc not STR. And no the solution to everything in this game is not more STR fyi.

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Originally Posted by Malix

That 30 extra STR doesnt do much if your not gearing for caps which pld doesnt need/want to do. As far as dps race goes if u need that much more dps you either need to get better dps or get a warrior tank. From the looks of it the biggest thing thats hurting him is Acc not STR. And no the solution to everything in this game is not more STR fyi.

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I wouldn't listen to this guy Zenchiro, he's a troll who like to disagree with everything I post.
I can hold hate against some pretty mean BLM's and STR is pretty good for that.

@Malix, yes STR is the primary damage stat for all Melee so if you want to increase damage, you add STR. If you want more enmity, you increase your damage. It's not rocket science. If you don't have/can't get HDL then adding DPS is the best tool you can use to increase your threat.
And I already told him he should get another ACC ring and with 2 electrum rings you shouldn't have massive accuracy issues no matter what class or weapon (aside those bad ones that have -acc)
And no I never said anything about needing to increase DPS because they need it, I said it can only help and not hurt.
Also, coming from someone who noticed a big change in my ability to hold hate after getting STR gauntlets and giving away some triple melded HP gauntlets, I can say that I do not miss that 150 HP at all.

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Originally Posted by Zenchiro

Hello, fellow Paladins.

Our Linkshell has been trying to defeat Garuda for a while now. Haven't been able to defeat her yet but we are getting closer and closer :o Last time we tried it, we decided to change our Paladin tank (me) to a damage dealer Warrior. So we used the Warrior as a tank and it turned out that he might have kept hate a bit better than my Paladin.

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Suggestions? Should I double meld Cobalt Celata with MND and buy few damage dealing accessories? Should I really buy Stom Lieutenant's Cutlass for damage and accuracy? etc. etc. Thanks for your help!

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+Enmity gear is very powerful, especially when you start adding it all up. I would suggest looking into Militia Gauntlets and Militia Choker to start. Over a given period of time, PLD's enmity generation outdistances WAR's, but it does depend on a certain extent to how much incoming damage you can heal. Since most of the party doesn't take much damage until phase 3, an equivalently geared WAR relying on damage output and Collusions off BLMs may or may not outpace a PLD. We tend to rely upon two WARs not because of enmity generation, necessarily, but moreso because the additional physical AoE damage is a boon for handling plumes.

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Originally Posted by carraway

+Enmity gear is very powerful, especially when you start adding it all up. I would suggest looking into Militia Gauntlets and Militia Choker to start. Over a given period of time, PLD's enmity generation outdistances WAR's, but it does depend on a certain extent to how much incoming damage you can heal. Since most of the party doesn't take much damage until phase 3, an equivalently geared WAR relying on damage output and Collusions off BLMs may or may not outpace a PLD. We tend to rely upon two WARs not because of enmity generation, necessarily, but moreso because the additional physical AoE damage is a boon for handling plumes.

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I see your point with using 2 Warriors, that gives a nice edge when dealing with the plumes.
But what do you think about that STR meld to gloves? (And which gloves? Cobalt Mitt Gauntlets or Cobalt Gauntlets to meld materia to?) Is that really a bad idea and just a gil sink or would it actually make a difference? And yes, I've set my eyes to the militia gear already but I haven't got my hands to it yet :)

Oh, and would you guys suggest to put Ironman's Will or Swordsman's Cry materia melds to pants? Would the STR boost from there too help or is there a better meld for pants?

I wonder what percentage of a paladin's enmity is generated from damage versus other sources. I suspect relatively little. This is why I like the theme of the Militia gear, which is HP + enmity. I like the Militia head and hands over STR and MND melded alternatives. Maybe I'm wrong about which choice will typically generate the most enmity.

Specifically for Garuda: The very start of the fight before her first "jump" is a great time for the whole party to pour on as much damage as you can, before plumes come into play. I always thought a WAR tank would be better in this situation, but my LS has used WAR and PLD and both seem to generate sufficient enmity off the top.

How much does a WAR who is tanking contribute to killing plumes? All you really have to do in the first phase is put as much damage on Garuda as possible and survive Aerial Blast. I doubt a tank's contribution to plumes is going to make or break you on surviving Aerial Blast.

Clones is another time I would think Collusion on a BLM would be sorely missed with a PLD tank, but maybe a PLD can handle the burst of damage required against clones as well as it does the opening minute of phase one.

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Originally Posted by Zenchiro

Awesome, I like that :) But do you think that upgrading my gear like Amy suggested is a good option? What kind of gear do you have?

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The STR meld gloves are kind of a toss up between the rings and choker in this particular fight. You can either go with 2x STR rings and a Electrum Gorget with a double meld acc. guantlets, or go with a double melded pair of Cobalt/Sentinels Guantlets (Makes sure it's 30+ STR or your wasting your time) and use Explorers Chocker and 2x Electrum Rings.

I say this because naturally acc. is a BIG player in this fight and you want to aim somewhere between 450-480 acc. after food/bard songs. Salt Cod Puffs give the biggest buff to acc. through food, however Tuna Miqot'bobs (sp) are a cheaper but decent alternative, Minuet gives roughly 40 Acc on top of that.

I'd also recommend getting a hold of one of the Lieutenants weapons as well, because they have better overall DPS than Ifrit's and some even give a little acc. in turn like the Lominsan Lieutenant's Cutlass.

Anyways here's a posting of my groups Damage and the stats I had on the last run we did to give you an idea what you can realistically hit . My numbers are usually tied for third with Hoolie most of the time, however 2nd phase can drastically alter the numbers based on how many she picks off before the PLD bites the dust.

Acc Build before food/buffs
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...rdsdon/Acc.jpg

Damage
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2.../GarudaDPS.jpg

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

The STR meld gloves are kind of a toss up between the rings and choker in this particular fight. You can either go with 2x STR rings and a Electrum Gorget with a double meld acc. guantlets, or go with a double melded pair of Cobalt/Sentinels Guantlets (Makes sure it's 30+ STR or your wasting your time) and use Explorers Chocker and 2x Electrum Rings.

I say this because naturally acc. is a BIG player in this fight and you want to aim somewhere between 450-480 acc. after food/bard songs. Salt Cod Puffs give the biggest buff to acc. through food, however Tuna Miqot'bobs (sp) are a cheaper but decent alternative, Minuet gives roughly 40 Acc on top of that.

I'd also recommend getting a hold of one of the Lieutenants weapons as well, because they have better overall DPS than Ifrit's and some even give a little acc. in turn like the Lominsan Lieutenant's Cutlass.

Anyways here's a posting of my groups Damage and the stats I had on the last run we did to give you an idea what you can realistically hit . My numbers are usually tied for third with Hoolie most of the time, however 2nd phase can drastically alter the numbers based on how many she picks off before the PLD bites the dust.

Acc Build before food/buffs

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This is a pretty good set up as well and it's really just a choice of which you think would be cheaper for you. Although with heavens eye IV being so expensive because of the relic quest I'd imagine it would be better to reach 30 str on gloves and +36 accuracy from +1 rings can't really be beat unless you triple meld some grade III's.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

This is a pretty good set up as well and it's really just a choice of which you think would be cheaper for you. Although with heavens eye IV being so expensive because of the relic quest I'd imagine it would be better to reach 30 str on gloves and +36 accuracy from +1 rings can't really be beat unless you triple meld some grade III's.

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Aye that's a good point, it's probably better to go with the double melded STR gloves not only because it's easier on the wallet, but it also when it comes to accessories you can be alot more flexible in adjusting your stats.

IE: Your having just a little bit of acc. issues, so you can swap out one STR ring for an Electrum ring and not take as big a hit on damage.

If your just a bit curious though, here's my entirely offensive stats.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...on/Offense.jpg

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Aye that's a good point, it's probably better to go with the double melded STR gloves not only because it's easier on the wallet, but it also when it comes to accessories you can be alot more flexible in adjusting your stats.

IE: Your having just a little bit of acc. issues, so you can swap out one STR ring for an Electrum ring and not take as big a hit on damage.

If your just a bit curious though, here's my entirely offensive stats.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...on/Offense.jpg

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Those are some pretty nice stats for PLD I usually just leave myself at a little over 300 STR. And your VIT/MND is pretty decent too. Really nice.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

I wouldn't listen to this guy Zenchiro, he's a troll who like to disagree with everything I post.
I can hold hate against some pretty mean BLM's and STR is pretty good for that.

@Malix, yes STR is the primary damage stat for all Melee so if you want to increase damage, you add STR. If you want more enmity, you increase your damage. It's not rocket science. If you don't have/can't get HDL then adding DPS is the best tool you can use to increase your threat.
And I already told him he should get another ACC ring and with 2 electrum rings you shouldn't have massive accuracy issues no matter what class or weapon (aside those bad ones that have -acc)
And no I never said anything about needing to increase DPS because they need it, I said it can only help and not hurt.
Also, coming from someone who noticed a big change in my ability to hold hate after getting STR gauntlets and giving away some triple melded HP gauntlets, I can say that I do not miss that 150 HP at all.

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Alli gotta say is i main PLD and this person doesnt even have pld leveled so you can either take the advice of a warrior (warrior gear completely different from paladins) or the advice of a fellow paladin. I was actually saying gettin acc from accessories was the good thing u mention so i dont even know why u attacking me on that lol. Every PLD on this forum will pretty much agree that PLD has huge ACC issues so ou saying no clashould have massive acc issues proves how little you know about the class right there. i was keeping the arguement civil but you decided to take it to that level. As far as disagreeing with you goes i can pull up several post that shows a ton of people disagreeing with you. In case you didnt know your a WARRIOR you generate threat through damage much more so than pld but PLD has ALOT more threat generating abilities than warrior and i can sit here and list them all day long but i shouldnt have to if you have done your research. you need at least 400 ACC on pld and you dont stack str on pld you just dont every pld knows this (hell mind is more important than STR) now dont come to my pld forums spouting nonsense about a class you dont even play.

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Originally Posted by Malix

Alli gotta say is i main PLD adn this person doesnt even have pld leveled so you can either take the advice of a warrior (warrior gear completely different from paladins) or the advice of a fellow paladin..

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Now I'm sure you're trolling.
Please get off this thread.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Now I'm sure you're trolling.
Please get off this thread.

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just looked you up ill admit i made a mistake you do have it leveled but doesnt change all the other things i said.

To the OP this is a great guide to follow: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...8post-1.22b%29

also look up kanican's emnity skill table and that should help you decide what you want to do.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

I'd also recommend getting a hold of one of the Lieutenants weapons as well, because they have better overall DPS than Ifrit's and some even give a little acc. in turn like the Lominsan Lieutenant's Cutlass.

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This is something that I'm wondering. Should I change my +37 enmity sword to ACC that I would gain from this Cutlass? Is it worth it? And Is there something else that I could use from the company? I see that youre using Lominsan Officer's Overcoat and I've been wondering that would it do me any good agains Garuda. Overall it seems to be a nice piece and with that sanction boost, it looks great.

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Originally Posted by Zenchiro

This is something that I'm wonereing. Should I change my +37 enmity sword to ACC that I would gain from this Cutlass? Is it worth it? And Is there something else that I could use from the company? I see that youre using Lominsan Officer's Overcoat and I've been wondering that would it do me any good agains Garuda. Overall it seems to be a nice piece and with that sanction boost, it looks great.

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double enmity on a sword is a pretty nice to have for tanking over almost anything.

hmm, is enmity realy an issue here? Also I noticed your gear set up lacked mind stat, stacking mind is super helpfull for keeping hate, as it increases enmity from the fast blade > flat blade combo. this combo can be spammed at a pretty constant rate through out the fight and dosent require much TP to do soo , soo it would not interfeer with any other tp based abilities.

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

hmm, is enmity realy an issue here? Also I noticed your gear set up lacked mind stat, stacking mind is super helpfull for keeping hate, as it increases enmity from the fast blade > flat blade combo. this combo can be spammed at a pretty constant rate through out the fight and dosent require much TP to do soo , soo it would not interfeer with any other tp based abilities.

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the MND stat is pretty exclusive to melding on your head slot so that has nothing to do with his other gear. That is a good point though, adding MND can't hurt.

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Originally Posted by Zenchiro

This is something that I'm wondering. Should I change my +37 enmity sword to ACC that I would gain from this Cutlass? Is it worth it? And Is there something else that I could use from the company? I see that youre using Lominsan Officer's Overcoat and I've been wondering that would it do me any good agains Garuda. Overall it seems to be a nice piece and with that sanction boost, it looks great.

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Enmity gear is subjective, you have to remember that every +10 Enmity is only a 1% increase, and likewise you have to keep in mind just how much your sacrificing in order to get high enmity in the process. IE: what good is it to get 200+ Enmity if your DPS drops 30% in the process. It's very important to keep track of that otherwise your wasting your time/money for gear that might not really be helping.

Here's my gear setup, underlining all the storm gear.

Storm Lieutenant's Cutlass +20 Acc, (5 Pieces) +30 Atk.
Vintage Kite Shield +1 (+16 Def)
Cobalt Celata (+34 MND)
Lominsan Officer's Overcoat +10 STR, VIT, DEX, MND, Sanction: +70 Def
Felt Trousers (+12 STR, +12 VIT)
Cobalt Guantlets (+35 STR)
Storm Sergeant's Jackboots +30 Eva., (2 Pieces) +10 DEX
Cobalt Plate Belt (+42 Enmity)
Storm Sergeant's Bracelets +3 Atk., (3 Pieces) +7 STR
Storm Sergeant's Earrings +4 Atk., (4 Pieces) +7 Crit. Atk.
Explorer's Choker
Electrum Ring x2

Frankly hate hasn't been an issue even though I haven't been stacking hundreds of Enmity or using Maddening Pots with a BLM in the group consistently doing over 100 DPS, just make sure a bard can keep Minuet up on you early in the fight and you should be solid w/o any worry after a few Weaponskills. Hell you'd be surprised how much DPS makes a difference in hate generation, but each person has their own preference and I've only just built this setup a few weeks ago so I haven't had sufficient time to really test the setup on anything beyond Garuda or Ifrit atm.

Thank you for all the replys guys. This has been helpful :) I'm still kinda wondering that Storm set. Of course the pieces woun't go waste, those pieces can be used with other Jobs as well. Is there a second opinion about that Storm set? Would love to hear :)

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Originally Posted by Zenchiro

Thank you for all the replys guys. This has been helpful :) I'm still kinda wondering that Storm set. Of course the pieces woun't go waste, those pieces can be used with other Jobs as well. Is there a second opinion about that Storm set? Would love to hear :)

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Storm set is the best tanking set when it comes to GC gear.