(THALEIA) Tanks have "AUTO" knockback???

I was today years old when I tried tanking in Thaleia for the 1st time. I was the main tank & everything was going smoothly until the final boss when s/he is about to cast Hydrostasis. As usual, I went near the puddle that will inflict the 1st knockback. However, somehow I wasn't pushed to the 2nd puddle & that caught off my guard, caused me to fall to the abyss because the next puddle indeed pushed me this time & I was far away from it. It happen for the 2nd time when the boss casted Byregot's Strike. I went near the blue circle, expecting to get knockbacked, but it didn't push me at all.

Are tanks supposed to resist knockback sometimes? I've tried to look for answers but couldn't find one. And I swear I didn't activate my ARM'S LENGHT during both mechanics.

Thank you for your answers!

Warrior detected

Also if take no damage most effects/debuffs wont actually apply to you (some effects are forced, even through things like hollowed), but yeah something like mit+a chunky healer shield could prevent a knockback.

Were you playing a Warrior? Inner Release prevents knockbacks for like 10 seconds.

we need to bring back pre SHB warrior oh my fuck

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Also if take no damage most effects/debuffs wont actually apply to you (some effects are forced, even through things like hollowed), but yeah something like mit+a chunky healer shield could prevent a knockback.

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This is true, sometimes, yes. My experience in Thaleia however is that 0 dmg doesn't prevent knockback effects. I regularly suffer 0 damage and still get yeeted across the horizon in Thaleia.

Thx for the answers, dear Sirs/Madams! And yes, I was a warrior. Seems Inner Release was the culprit. Been playing for years, but still have no idea about it >_<

Inner Release's knockback immunity very rarely comes up, as it's mostly used for the Fell Cleaves and Primal Rend... But it is a thing, and actually lasts longer than Arm's Length. If you use it as the Hydrostatis is happening, you can just ignore the entire mechanic with it.

In general, some attacks that inflicts status will only do so if you take damage. If a barrier completely negates the damage, those attacks will not apply its negative effects to you.

Plus, WAR conveniently has 2 knockback resistance abilities while the rest only have 1.

Playing for years but don't read tool tips before queuing up with others.

The fact that simply not knowing your job is so normalized over here might be why other communities don't want us to come visit lol.

Also, if you have a shield is powerful enough to resist an attack without breaking, usually the secondary effect doesn't go through.

At the top of my head: You can skip the Doom mechanic The Queen puts on the tank in DR if you just give them a big enough shield.
So... a crit SCH/SGE shield, or a Benison plus Blackest Night or whatever.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Also, if you have a shield is powerful enough to resist an attack without breaking, usually the secondary effect doesn't go through.

At the top of my head: You can skip the Doom mechanic The Queen puts on the tank in DR if you just give them a big enough shield.
So... a crit SCH/SGE shield, or a Benison plus Blackest Night or whatever.

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Not sure about the shield thing but I do know that doom in DR is removed when you reach full HP. So the shield doesn't make you resist it, it simply has the requirement to remove it already done.

And now I'm second guessing my memory on this XD
At least I'm pretty sure that's one of the heal dooms.

Warriors get training wheels in the form of a billion additional effects. Inner release let's you ignore KB too as part of your basic damage rotation.

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Originally Posted by Mecia

we need to bring back pre SHB warrior oh my fuck

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Nothing changes, Its had this ability even in SHB.

Can confirm that taking no damage from The Queen when Doom would normally be applied skips getting Doom. There was no indicator for Doom at all on my screen when I did that.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

And now I'm second guessing my memory on this XD
At least I'm pretty sure that's one of the heal dooms.

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I had a bit of time to look it up and yup I was wrong. The doom on queen is esuna. Been too long I guess.
I would just delete the comment but I have no idea how on mobile.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

I had a bit of time to look it up and yup I was wrong. The doom on queen is esuna. Been too long I guess.
I would just delete the comment but I have no idea how on mobile.

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don't think you can lmao.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

Not sure about the shield thing but I do know that doom in DR is removed when you reach full HP. So the shield doesn't make you resist it, it simply has the requirement to remove it already done.

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I know for sure I've had several instances in which a shield blocked a secondary effect. I'm not sure if some attacks are unaffected.
For the DR thing, it's not like the doom gets applied and then instantly removed, it just never applied at all.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

Nothing changes, Its had this ability even in SHB.

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I am joking about the state of WAR and its players, i know its been there.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I know for sure I've had several instances in which a shield blocked a secondary effect. I'm not sure if some attacks are unaffected.

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Some will get through, some will not. I don't even think there is anything that you can say for certain is one side or the other except debuffs that are required for mechanics will go through, though that should be obvious.

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Originally Posted by Eyinyin_Eyin

Thx for the answers, dear Sirs/Madams! And yes, I was a warrior. Seems Inner Release was the culprit. Been playing for years, but still have no idea about it >_<

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You've been playing for years but never bothered to read your tooltips? That didn't strike you as important information? :confused:

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

You've been playing for years but never bothered to read your tooltips? That didn't strike you as important information? :confused:

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Point to all the copious amounts of content in this game where it matters when you press Inner Release for the knockback immunity. Or better yet, the sleep immunity. Or the bind immunity. Or the heavy immunity. Like, seriously. It's easy to forget that button X has effect Y when effect Y is irrelevant in 90% of the game's content.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Point to all the copious amounts of content in this game where it matters when you press Inner Release for the knockback immunity. Or better yet, the sleep immunity. Or the bind immunity. Or the heavy immunity. Like, seriously. It's easy to forget that button X has effect Y when effect Y is irrelevant in 90% of the game's content.

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P8S P1 DOG 1

please read your tooltips.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Point to all the copious amounts of content in this game where it matters when you press Inner Release for the knockback immunity. Or better yet, the sleep immunity. Or the bind immunity. Or the heavy immunity. Like, seriously. It's easy to forget that button X has effect Y when effect Y is irrelevant in 90% of the game's content.

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I think every ew alliance raid has 1, at least half the ew dungeons have 1, half the ew normal trials also have one, probably 1/3 of the normal raids have 1 too.
Impossible to make it all the way to 90 and all the MSQ without immunizing a kb by accident, there's so many in the game you would need to be completely ignorant and oblivious to what just happened, or it was a boost. In which case huge user error.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

You've been playing for years but never bothered to read your tooltips? That didn't strike you as important information? :confused:

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You'd be surprised how many don't read their tooltips. Ever found an ice mage? That's a classic example.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

You'd be surprised how many don't read their tooltips. Ever found an ice mage? That's a classic example.

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Ecshoose me sweaty my tooltips say blizzard 4 and fire 4 have the same potency but I get unlimited mana in ice phase so obviously I should stay in ice phase

Learn to play next time UWU

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

You'd be surprised how many don't read their tooltips. Ever found an ice mage? That's a classic example.

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Ice Mage is a bad example. The tooltips dont explain the umbral or astral stances at all - not on the spells and not on the traits. If you want to see what they do in game then you need to: get into a fight, cast an ice spell, not die, read the BUFF description during the 15 seconds the buff lasts, then either repeat everything for fire or transpose and read the fire buff description in your 15 seconds. And even then, astral fire doesnt tell you HOW MUCH it buffs damage - just that it increases damage and mana cost. Running out of mana in ~6 spells can feel bad for a newer player, so seeing that spamming ice means you never need to stop casting might feel like a logical conclusion. There is a brief tutorial pop up window that explains stance changing when you get transpose, but it doesnt explain the benefits. So the entirety of the game trying to help new THMs is a single tutorial/help screen popup that you get like 5 mins after you start leveling the class in the middle of dozens of other popups that many new players dont read because they are in the process of being overwhelmed with info. And again, all it explains is HOW to stance dance - not why you want to.

I feel like if you have two stances one that gives massive mana gain and the other that freezes your gain and your spells all have massive costs it should be pretty obvious that the “freeze mana regen” stance is providing some kind of massive benefit, if not there is literally no reason to ever leave umbral ice

Why even have astral fire if umbral ice is objectively better in every way

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Originally Posted by Frizze

Ice Mage is a bad example. The tooltips dont explain the umbral or astral stances at all - not on the spells and not on the traits. If you want to see what they do in game then you need to: get into a fight, cast an ice spell, not die, read the BUFF description during the 15 seconds the buff lasts, then either repeat everything for fire or transpose and read the fire buff description in your 15 seconds. And even then, astral fire doesnt tell you HOW MUCH it buffs damage - just that it increases damage and mana cost. Running out of mana in ~6 spells can feel bad for a newer player, so seeing that spamming ice means you never need to stop casting might feel like a logical conclusion. There is a brief tutorial pop up window that explains stance changing when you get transpose, but it doesnt explain the benefits. So the entirety of the game trying to help new THMs is a single tutorial/help screen popup that you get like 5 mins after you start leveling the class in the middle of dozens of other popups that many new players dont read because they are in the process of being overwhelmed with info. And again, all it explains is HOW to stance dance - not why you want to.

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As if the game is ever good at explaining anything. How many times have you researched something about the game, like GarlandTools or any wiki to find information that should've been in the game?

If ice mage is a bad example, let's try another one: how many times have you seen a tank never use Arm's Length to slow down enemy attacks? Because they think slow = movement speed, not attack speed. And this goes both ways, not just sprouts, but veterans as well. Or WHM using cure 1 because of "freecure" trap? How many times have you seen tanks always use the second part of their AoE combo, but not the first? (i.e. WAR only use Mythril Tempest, but not Overpower) How about SAM's using only AoEs on bosses in raids because doing 123 is slower than their 1 + 2 aoe combo? Or heck, how many have they ever used Meikyo Shisui correctly on Gekko and Kasha for their buffs?

The problem is that the game is good at describing essays. The moment a sprout sees a wall of text (like in Intervention from PLD) they will just give up and press buttons. I don't blame the sprouts, but the game is just not good at making things look simple.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

As if the game is ever good at explaining anything. How many times have you researched something about the game, like GarlandTools or any wiki to find information that should've been in the game?

If ice mage is a bad example, let's try another one: how many times have you seen a tank never use Arm's Length to slow down enemy attacks? Because they think slow = movement speed, not attack speed. And this goes both ways, not just sprouts, but veterans as well. Or WHM using cure 1 because of "freecure" trap? How many times have you seen tanks always use the second part of their AoE combo, but not the first? (i.e. WAR only use Mythril Tempest, but not Overpower) How about SAM's using only AoEs on bosses in raids because doing 123 is slower than their 1 + 2 aoe combo? Or heck, how many have they ever used Meikyo Shisui correctly on Gekko and Kasha for their buffs?

The problem is that the game is good at describing essays. The moment a sprout sees a wall of text (like in Intervention from PLD) they will just give up and press buttons. I don't blame the sprouts, but the game is just not good at making things look simple.

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I consider a wall of text to be multiple paragraphs, if people can't be bothered to read 3 or 4 sentences then no wonder so many are lost hopes

I mean I think the descriptions of skills are explained pretty simply it's more a case of people just not giving a shit

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Originally Posted by JuicyHeals

I consider a wall of text to be multiple paragraphs, if people can't be bothered to read 3 or 4 sentences then no wonder so many are lost hopes

I mean I think the descriptions of skills are explained pretty simply it's more a case of people just not giving a shit

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I agree and disagree. My text above usually speaks about sprouts, and let me tell you, new excited sprouts don't want to read, they just want to go pewpew. Today earlier I got Euphrosyne, and the AST healer used Horoscope, but never used Helios or Aspected Helios to upgrade the skill. Why? Because people don't read or don't want to read. This similarly happened when I had another AST while doing mentors (non-sprout) who had the same issue. When I asked why, they replied "oh, I didn't read my skill entirely"

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

I agree and disagree. My text above usually speaks about sprouts, and let me tell you, new excited sprouts don't want to read, they just want to go pewpew. Today earlier I got Euphrosyne, and the AST healer used Horoscope, but never used Helios or Aspected Helios to upgrade the skill. Why? Because people don't read or don't want to read. This similarly happened when I had another AST while doing mentors (non-sprout) who had the same issue. When I asked why, they replied "oh, I didn't read my skill entirely"

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Unless they actually stated that they never read their skills (gods, please no, lol) or have displayed poor performance in general, it's usually alright to give them the benefit of doubt. 'Cause let's be real though: what damage/mechanic in Euphrosyne that really needs charged Horoscope when 9 out of 10 times a blast from Earthly Star every 60s would've just solved every required healings on its own? Also, seeing Horoscope as a free partywide 200p is a totally viable choice if that gets the job done.