We need an Eastern themed caster

There is literally a land of the far east, and not a single eastern caster. Western and European themed magic is cool, but its time for the east to get a caster next time around.

Geomancer
A mage with paper seals floating around them (love those class types in RPG)
Onmyoji
Oracle

There are so many themes that could be used to make an eastern caster a reality in FFXIV.

I would prefer a theme that fixes what we have currently, before adding in yet more jobs.

GEO is already covered by AST as per the game’s lore and even though it’s meant to be pages so many of SCH’s moves already look like they have the “seal” from eastern lore in them (aetherflow, excog and protraction all use this style of move)

But I also agree with kes I know that “new jobs sell expansions” but the current jobs are already in the toilet (especially the 7 current casters), pls fix them first

Ast is an eastern caster. I looked it up where astrology started it said West Eurasian which looks like its China now. From there it said it spread to Europe and other places.

No mention of mystic knight? All of these are niche in comparison

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Originally Posted by Sheriyana

No mention of mystic knight? All of these are niche in comparison

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I doubt they'd make it a true caster considering RDM already kind of covers the melee+magic niche within the role, so perhaps as a melee DPS or, eugh, a Tank, but... what does it have to do with an Eastern-themed caster?

I was sure Onmyoji would make an appearance sooner or later after it got so much attention in Bozja and last year's? Heavensturn, but now that Pictomancer has claimed brushes as its weapon, and AST already has cards as part of its kit (even if they're not a weapon outright, auto-attacks notwithstanding) I'm not longer so certain.

We don't have an offensive caster that uses bells with water/wind/earth ambient aether magic, so no, GEO is not covered.

Although I'm not a fan of eastern culture at all, it would fit GEO as we already have precedent for it with the Swallow's Compass.

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Originally Posted by Mithron

We don't have an offensive caster that uses bells with water/wind/earth ambient aether magic, so no, GEO is not covered.

Although I'm not a fan of eastern culture at all, it would fit GEO as we already have precedent for it with the Swallow's Compass.

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The entire lore of the 70 AST questline is basically “AST look up at stars, GEO look down at star but we are the same”

They won’t make GEO an offensive caster when they have gone out of their way to include it in the lore it’s just AST

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The entire lore of the 70 AST questline is basically “AST look up at stars, GEO look down at star but we are the same”

They won’t make GEO an offensive caster when they have gone out of their way to include it in the lore it’s just AST

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When you guys say offensive casters I imagine some mage throwing out slurs...

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The entire lore of the 70 AST questline is basically “AST look up at stars, GEO look down at star but we are the same”

They won’t make GEO an offensive caster when they have gone out of their way to include it in the lore it’s just AST

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Yeah but who cares. Swallow's Compass has dudes ringing giant bells then huge water wind earth stuff happens. That's GEO. Not AST.

I'm baffled when some people invalidate GEO as the "same thing as AST" - even if the power source is similar, the way they act is vastly different.

While I like the idea of a Geomancer, and defnitely wouldn't mind an Eastern Caster with it, I'd personally prefer a 'curse themed caster' in the form of Mystic/Oracle/Onmyoji.

Lore-wise GEO is described as an eastern equivalent to CNJ/AST in the encyclopedia. GEO is so close to AST that AST barrier magic works on established GEO barriers because the magic is the same. Later on, the stars are described as another aspect of Geomancy and the characters describe AST and GEO as being two sides of the same coin.

There’s also the fact that there are no job stones and training is done from master to apprentice the old-fashioned way. The only proper geomancer in the world is locked behind AST quests and I doubt they’d overhaul a whole questline just to justify the existence of a new job when they can just do something else.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The entire lore of the 70 AST questline is basically “AST look up at stars, GEO look down at star but we are the same”

They won’t make GEO an offensive caster when they have gone out of their way to include it in the lore it’s just AST

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GEO in FFXI was fun to play and it’s a lot different. We could setup “totems” that give buffs or enemy debuffs in bubbles like it does in FFXI. However unlike FFXI, it can still use various types of spells that are Water, Earth, and Wind. We don’t even have a bell weapon yet.

Well, we sort of did...

... as the off-hand of the Classical Smallsword :P

https://attire.jp/wp-content/uploads...013605_814.jpg

If they add a new healer at some point, they could go the Gosetsu route with it.

If only they could've made Pictomancer Hingan in origin and with a traditional inkbrush aesthetic vs. the goofy magical girl-esque nonsense we ended up with.

It always amazes me how people paste NEED on almost everything, not a "Would like", not a "Would be cool", no, we NEED it

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

There is literally a land of the far east, and not a single eastern caster. Western and European themed magic is cool, but its time for the east to get a caster next time around.

Geomancer
A mage with paper seals floating around them (love those class types in RPG)
Onmyoji
Oracle

There are so many themes that could be used to make an eastern caster a reality in FFXIV.

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everybody allways wants doubles of jobs we already have meanwhile whenever i cry for 'nother gunner class I'm ignored
https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m...3aixo1_500.gif

That's what I hoped we'd get in DT, but instead we got pictomancer.

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Originally Posted by WantlessYoYo

It always amazes me how people paste NEED on almost everything, not a "Would like", not a "Would be cool", no, we NEED it

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Yeah, hyperbole's wild and infectious like that. Much like people who say they're "amazed" by fairly mundane things, it's just something we have to get used to in 2024.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

If only they could've made Pictomancer Hingan in origin and with a traditional inkbrush aesthetic vs. the goofy magical girl-esque nonsense we ended up with.

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God this is what I was hoping for when people were speculating Pictomancer as the next job. While I don't mind the colors, I am not a fan of the silly cutesy moogle/spriggan motifs it looks like we're going to be painting. :/ Makes me wish they would implement an "animation glamour" feature where we can change the aesthetics of the VFX.

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Originally Posted by Destati

God this is what I was hoping for when people were speculating Pictomancer as the next job. While I don't mind the colors, I am not a fan of the silly cutesy moogle/spriggan motifs it looks like we're going to be painting. :/ Makes me wish they would implement an "animation glamour" feature where we can change the aesthetics of the VFX.

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If there's one thing to invest resources, this would be it.

Imagine if more jobs, not just Bard, had some nice 'side fluff system':

- Dancers getting their own performance mode where you improvise live with different steps against a track. Could even add some different styles;
- Pictomancers getting an interface to let them customize what they paint style;
- Summoners getting a 'Book of Eikons' (stolen idea from another thread) where, after they get 3 new gemstones in DT, they're able to customize the elemental summons from each respective stones;
- Astrologian getting a cool built in minigame interface where you can do divination readings with the cards for another person;

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

GEO is already covered by AST as per the game’s lore and even though it’s meant to be pages so many of SCH’s moves already look like they have the “seal” from eastern lore in them (aetherflow, excog and protraction all use this style of move)

But I also agree with kes I know that “new jobs sell expansions” but the current jobs are already in the toilet (especially the 7 current casters), pls fix them first

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I am so tired of this argument. Geo is not covered by AST. If Geo were a new job, it would likely not be a healer, and its animations would be completely different. This would change it drastically. I highly doubt they put as much effort into GEO in the lore for the AST quests as much as they would if they made it a new job. People need to realize that devs CAN and will go above and beyond when fully fleshing a new job. Nothing makes a job impossible. Time Mage can still exist with Astrologian in the game. Dark Knight and Reaper are basically the same job in FF history, but are made completely different. The request for a scythe type of Dark Knight in the DPS role was strong, so they did it and made it a thing of its own.

We could definitely get other job splits. Some people for example want Berserker which might be extremely similar to Warrior, but again they could make a different role, and give it a different vibe. SE should definitely avoid early introducing potential future jobs inside of any job quests unless they 100% plan to release them later. The confusion the Geo Astrologian quest caused is obnoxious. Players are not smart enough to think outside of the box, and not assume its dead in the water.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I am so tired of this argument. Geo is not covered by AST. If Geo were a new job, it would likely not be a healer, and its animations would be completely different. This would change it drastically. I highly doubt they put as much effort into GEO in the lore for the AST quests as much as they would if they made it a new job. People need to realize that devs CAN and will go above and beyond when fully fleshing a new job. Nothing makes a job impossible. Time Mage can still exist with Astrologian in the game. Dark Knight and Reaper are basically the same job in FF history, but are made completely different. The request for a scythe type of Dark Knight in the DPS role was strong, so they did it and made it a thing of its own.

We could definitely get other job splits. Some people for example want Berserker which might be extremely similar to Warrior, but again they could make a different role, and give it a different vibe. SE should definitely avoid early introducing potential future jobs inside of any job quests unless they 100% plan to release them later. The confusion the Geo Astrologian quest caused is obnoxious. Players are not smart enough to think outside of the box, and not assume its dead in the water.

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Because this isn’t “the classes are similar and come from the same roots in FF” this is straight up the lore says that GEO and AST are exactly the same class and this is backed up by the fact that the GEO NPC uses a bell like normal GEO, RPR was never mentioned prior as being a DRK in the DRK quest, they aren’t remotely comparable

This isn’t saying “oh they could do more if they actually put GEO into the game” this is the devs putting it into the lore they are the same class, there is no confusion on what the lore of those quests actually means, GEO and AST are the same thing in 14 lore

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Because this isn’t “the classes are similar and come from the same roots in FF” this is straight up the lore says that GEO and AST are exactly the same class and this is backed up by the fact that the GEO NPC uses a bell like normal GEO, RPR was never mentioned prior as being a DRK in the DRK quest, they aren’t remotely comparable

This isn’t saying “oh they could do more if they actually put GEO into the game” this is the devs putting it into the lore they are the same class, there is no confusion on what the lore of those quests actually means, GEO and AST are the same thing in 14 lore

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It never said the same, it said SIMILAR. And even if it were the lore, with enough player demand it could happen, and the devs are allowed to do whatever they want. If they want to make a job exist they will. This game is not 100% beholden to sacred laws, or its lore. Things can be changed if they will it so.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

It never said the same, it said SIMILAR. And even if it were the lore, with enough player demand it could happen, and the devs are allowed to do whatever they want. If they want to make a job exist they will. This game is not 100% beholden to sacred laws, or its lore. Things can be changed if they will it so.

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To make it a playable class would involve redoing part of the AST questline since that establishes that they ARE the same. We use AST magic on the GEO barriers in the game itself and by the end of it, Kyokuho unlocks "stars" as a fourth energy along with fire, wind, and water to complete the geomantic barrier and seal up Kinko for good instead of using blood magic. And again, there are no job stones, the whole reason everything happens is because geomancy is passed down from master to apprentice. We as players have no way to become a geomancer unless we complete the AST quest and then apprentice under Kyokuho.

There is no point in taking extra effort in redoing a storyline for a whole other job just to allow the existence of another job that is set on the opposite end of the planet from where anything of consequence is actually happening when the devs can just make any other job. Considering we're getting a caster in this expansion, it'll be years if we ever get another caster anyway, if it happens at all.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

To make it a playable class would involve redoing part of the AST questline since that establishes that they ARE the same. We use AST magic on the GEO barriers in the game itself and by the end of it, Kyokuho unlocks "stars" as a fourth energy along with fire, wind, and water to complete the geomantic barrier and seal up Kinko for good instead of using blood magic. And again, there are no job stones, the whole reason everything happens is because geomancy is passed down from master to apprentice. We as players have no way to become a geomancer unless we complete the AST quest and then apprentice under Kyokuho.

There is no point in taking extra effort in redoing a storyline for a whole other job just to allow the existence of another job that is set on the opposite end of the planet from where anything of consequence is actually happening when the devs can just make any other job. Considering we're getting a caster in this expansion, it'll be years if we ever get another caster anyway, if it happens at all.

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Nah, could just make it add small text flavor If you completed it first. Doesn’t need to be tied very much.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

To make it a playable class would involve redoing part of the AST questline since that establishes that they ARE the same.

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Even if that is the case (I've not gone to check quotes), it can still simply be excused that the AST quests dealt with Hingan geomancy, and there is another discipline that has been given the same label but is actually very different.

Or even if it was still just Hingan geomancy, all they need to do is put emphasis on the not-similar-to-AST bits, just like AST didn't suddenly become an elemental caster once they realised that both classes functioned on the same principles.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Even if that is the case (I've not gone to check quotes), it can still simply be excused that the AST quests dealt with Hingan geomancy, and there is another discipline that has been given the same label but is actually very different.

Or even if it was still just Hingan geomancy, all they need to do is put emphasis on the not-similar-to-AST bits, just like AST didn't suddenly become an elemental caster once they realised that both classes functioned on the same principles.

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Kyokuho practices Doman geomancy. Hingan geomancy is a bunch of charlatans spouting superstition to get people to pay them for consulting. By the end of the questline they start learning true geomancy under Kyokuho. Then we arrive to the same problem as before where the whole questline only gets kicked off because there are no job stones and Kyukuho is trying to revive it by reading books and taking AST classes.

Levava later talks about using what she learned to practice doing astromancy using the earth like a geomancer and Kyokuho's geomancy students are going to get sent to Levava to learn astromancy from her. At this point they're tied together and new learners of geomancy are being taught by an astrologian.

If you're looking for quotes from the game suggesting they're the same:

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Originally Posted by Kyokuho

Our conversations have been…eye-opening, to say the least. She theorizes that our two schools may actually be one and the same.

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Originally Posted by Levava

Together we have saved Kugane, and with it torn down the walls that separated our two schools.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Nah, could just make it add small text flavor If you completed it first. Doesn’t need to be tied very much.

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It's tied too much to the questline to do that. The whole story is about how no one remembers geomancy enough to fix the barrier preventing a bloodthirsty fox spirit from destroying Kugane. Through the story, AST spells are used to supplement the barriers and characters describe them as being the same thing and then partner together using each other's disciplines in combination with their own.

It would be super awkward to dance around the fact that the main character in that story is having to go read ancient books to learn geomancy and then later revive the art by partnering with an astrologian if some rando with a stone no one knew about is right there.

At this point it's much easier to just invent a new job out of nothing than to take something else and reword it to make it work. Otherwise they would've introduced GEO as the new barrier healer instead of SGE, which has nothing to do with historical sages in the FF series anyway.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Kyokuho practices Doman geomancy. Hingan geomancy is a bunch of charlatans spouting superstition to get people to pay them for consulting.

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I don't recall them ever making such a distinction. Kyokuho's explanation in the level 65 quest seems to indicate that the charlatans are directly mimicking Kyokuho's grandfather's discipline for profit, not that they were a separate pre-existing one.

In any case, my core point remains that just because we've seen one school of geomancy doesn't mean there can't be others, and also that despite any talk about successful merging of astro-geomancy into a single concept, our practical AST skills have little to show for it besides perhaps Earthly Star, which we learn well before the Stormblood questline concludes.

So, if AST remains strictly astrological despite its lore-ties to geomancy, then the opposite can also be true.

The only way I see them adding GEO as a Job is them pulling a reverse-SGE and giving us a Job that evokes the classical GEO (with the necessary changes to make it work in the confines of XIV's combat/party design) but has a different, unrelated name, kind of like a lot of people look at Reaper and take it as the DPS Dark Knight. Or Thief getting rebranded to Rogue.

...which seems like a feasible solution if they can make the Job work mechanically now that I think about it.

Honestly when I heard pictomancer thrown around I thought it would have been neat if it were from Kugane.
In my mind I imagine Okami and the Byakko weapons remind me of the effects in that game.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't recall them ever making such a distinction. Kyokuho's explanation in the level 65 quest seems to indicate that the charlatans are directly mimicking Kyokuho's grandfather's discipline for profit, not that they were a separate pre-existing one.

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Originally Posted by EE2

The discipline first arose in Yanxia, its secrets passed on from aged master to chosen student in the traditional manner.
[...]
In the nation of Hingashi, however, the geomancer's banishing and binding of evil has been misconstrued as a means to manipulate the land and invite good fortune, leading the populace to consider these mages as little more than advisors for aspiring merchants.

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Kyokuho himself in Hingan, but the geomancy he practices is closer to the original since it's legitimate magic. What the charlatans are doing seems to be how the art is perceived as a whole in Hingashi.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Kyokuho himself in Hingan, but the geomancy he practices is closer to the original since it's legitimate magic. What the charlatans are doing seems to be how the art is perceived as a whole in Hingashi.

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You're making assumptions that don't seem to be there. The quest says that people started doing the false type of geomancy after seeing Kazan do it for real. The false type is rife now in Hingashi (or at least Kugane) as a consequence, but that isn't the same as saying the false type is inherently Hingan or the true type is Doman.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You're making assumptions that don't seem to be there. The quest says that people started doing the false type of geomancy after seeing Kazan do it for real. The false type is rife now in Hingashi (or at least Kugane) as a consequence, but that isn't the same as saying the false type is inherently Hingan or the true type is Doman.

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I'm saying what the encyclopedia says, and it says exactly what I quoted about the art being confused in Hingashi. Kyokuho's grandfather Kazan, the one who the Hingan geomancers were copying, was trained in Yanxia. The thing the Hingan charlatans are doing was invented by other charlatans watching Kazan.