What I want as a summoner is to be able to summon all kinds of avatars like fenrir, valefor,bahamut,Phoenix, and espers/etc. I want that whole XI summoner feel with of course improvements. Don't want limits Like hours of cool downs unless they make summons like XI draining mp and brining back gear that reduces mp consumed by avatars. I want rare items relics/AF that gives you exclusive summon like relic for bahamut and AF weapon for diabolos.
Weapons:ORB
Summons: at least more then XI
Cool down: like XI
Post your What do you expect if summoner was released :D yes I'm bored.
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07-11-2012, 04:13 AMKingBerrySummoner: if summoner is the first new class to be released what would you expect?
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07-11-2012, 04:14 AMPhe
a horn.
carbuncle.
fairy elements.
shiva AF. -
07-11-2012, 04:17 AMKoujiGekihttp://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...3_a21y_400.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Phe
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Talk-Summoner -
07-11-2012, 04:23 AMBabydoll
- I want to be able to keep my pet out constantly.
- The traditional summoner horn.
- Whip weapons
^^ -
07-11-2012, 04:24 AMZantetsuken
Summoner is perhaps my favorite job -- and I hated the FFXI (pet) version of it.
Some ways to make it better:
Control Change: The summoner must maintain the summoning spell to keep the avatar out. Avatar appears and then player gains full control of it and can move around and pull special moves that deplete the SMN's MP (as opposed to TP) - no perpetuation cost, if the SMN sustains any damage, the avatar dissapears and the player regains control of SMN.
One Shot - Classic Style: Avatars appear in the same way they did from FFIII - FFIX. That is, they appear. pull off a super attack, and leave. This makes SMN more of a super mage than a pet job and it better reflects the way summoning worked traditionally. Every Avatar would have an assortment of abilities that expands as you level up. You select an ability, the Avatar appears, uses the ability, and is gone. Much more straight forward, and allows for greater variety of things for the SMN to do during a battle. -
07-11-2012, 04:28 AMRannieI'm all for the radio active Rat i mean carby i love him he's always so adorable. Of course if there is summoner the Af is going to have to have a horn in it. It's common like the pimpin rdm Hat is a symbol of a Red Mage. Fairy Elements are nice too atleast it would be better looking than what 11's elementals were dunno about the shiva af....Quote:
Originally Posted by Phe
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07-11-2012, 05:13 AMAndrien
I don't want that FFXI summoner feel, something better is what I want.
I want to be able to cure and buff summoned pets, and use their ultimate technique when I charged them up instead of waiting on a timer. something like normal abilities cost mp and super techniques cost summoner points. -
07-11-2012, 06:16 AMRyansAs fun as the control system would be, this game has too many positional elements for the summoner to worry about its avatar and himself to be an effective member.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
The one shot system would be too boring in my opinion. Maybe if each avatar had a combo and they'd stay out as long as the combo was active.
I'd prefer to have summoner be able to fulfill any of the party slots depending on what avatar they have out. Maybe they get a unique spell depending on their current pet on top of what the combo the avatar itself can do. When they have a light type avatar out, a small cure type of spell that the summoner uses and the pet does regens, curagas, and esunas. When you have an earth avatar out, the summoner can use something like stone throw and the pet has stoneskin, en-stone, slow, and some fist weaponskills. -
07-11-2012, 06:45 AMurtv
the summoner should instead transform into the avatar for the primal and their skills be replaced with a custom skill set for the avatar
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07-11-2012, 07:32 AMForteSo it would be more like Morpher? Then smner and if that is the case that I would like orbs to be weapons and you can have different affinity's to the different beast classes. Always liked Morpher wish to see it in more then FFTAQuote:
Originally Posted by urtv
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07-11-2012, 08:00 AMAirgetThe concept of "Astral Projection" could work if there was a limit to it. Basically a Summoner's body would stay in play and the avatar they are controlling would only be able to move a certain radius away from them. The further they move away the more MP it would cost to keep up the astral projection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte
The main gimmick of this concept would be the proper placement of your character as well as proper usage of Avatar command to prevent to much hate going onto the player. Basically avatars would have 3 types of moves. Moves that give the player enmity, moves that give the avatar enmity and moves that give both the player and avatar enmity. The general idea is that when you are using this is a solo setting you have to be sure your avatar can keep the mobs attention on the avatar and not head after you since if they can defeat the one performing the astral projection the avatar will also be defeated. -
07-11-2012, 08:37 AMFelis
Weapon: Whip
AF: a sexy green costume (sexy male and sexy female of course ^^)
Summons: Carbuncle, Fat Chocobo and Fenrir for the beginning -
07-11-2012, 09:22 AMDuelle
Assuming Summoner is going to be a pet job, I would want it to be built on a less restrictive foundation. Then we can worry about avatars and whatnot. My suggestion would be:
Class: Evoker
Weapon: Crystal Orb, Tamagushi
(note: these are random levels selected)
1. Call
1. Attack - Summoned entity attacks target enemy.
5. Astral Burst - The avatar uses a concentrated magic attack.
7. Symbiosis - Sacrifice some HP to restore 2.5 times the amount to your avatar.
10. Astral Assault - The avatar uses an attack ability
17. Borrowed Burst - You borrow power from your avatar, releasing a magic attack of the same elemental alignment as your summoned avatar
20. Astral Ward - Your avatar uses a defensive or support-oriented ability
...and so on
The basic idea in this case is that the summoner's "abilities" have general names, but the actions themselves are specific for the avatar summoned. Say the SMN has Carbuncle out and they use Astral Ward. Carbuncle would use Wall (FFVII version) on the party. If the SMN had Diabolos out and used Astral Ward, then Diabolos would use Punishing Barbs. If it's Phoenix then Blaze Spikes, and so on.
Likewise, if the SMN uses Borrowed Power while Diabolos is out, the SMN therefore casts Demi. If it's Phoenix then the SMN casts Fire.
Astral Burst would be unique abilities that are native to the avatars but not on the same level as Astral Flow. Like Phoenix's Astral Burst could be Firebird, an AoE attack that does damage to the enemies and does 10% of the damage dealt to Phoenix, as opposed to its Astral Flow, Flames of Rebirth, which deals big damage and heals the party for a portion of the damage dealt.
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Another option would be the Evoker/SMN having only call and auto attack abilities, and the rest of their action bar being determined by the Avatar that's out. This would help assign roles to specific avatars (healing on carbucle, tanking on Golem, damage on Ixion, damage + heals on Phoenix).
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For both ideas, what I'm aiming for is the Summoner gaining abilities of their own from the Avatar, aside from having the Avatar's contributions to combat. -
07-11-2012, 10:23 AMWendyMarvell
Unfortunately, I'm expecting it to be a hybrid DD and buffer, that is so weak in both (due to balancing) that it never gets used for any content...
Hopefully, SE surprises me with a good DD with some non-defensive buffs (different from bard).
The more hybrid a job is... the less chances we will actually use it ... just saying -
07-11-2012, 10:28 AMShurrikhanI'd rather see Summoner as summoning and being able to control his/her pets both directly and indirectly at his/her own choosing. Leave Bahamut nukes for some sort of aggregate battle regimen reform, centered through the summoner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
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07-11-2012, 10:31 AMDelmontyb
It would be interesting if the HP of the summon was linked to the HP of the SMN.
Meaning if the summon dies, so does the SMN... (FFIV)
Anyway, if summoning a tank style monster, then the summoner's HP might get a boost too, etc... The SMN itself could end up being the most versatile class in the game. They could be healer, tank, DD, buff/debuff... it would all depend on how they do it of course, but ether way, I'm excited for the class and can't wait to give it a try. :) -
07-11-2012, 10:34 AMShurrikhanHonestly this sounds more like what a "Conjurer" should be, but without the elemental basis. An "Evoker" by name usually refers to the evoking or outward movement of internal powers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
That's really the only complaint I have with it though. I would enjoy seeing this added to game. It's just that I'd prefer they finish off all possibilities for spell methodologies off the bat, rather than adding otherwise arbitrary classes just to pair with jobs that should be based on uses of the original schools of magic. Elemental/Spiritual/Arcane seems to me to be able to encapsulate everything in FF magic. The only problem then is the system, since Summoning would theoretically come from any of those sources -- live creatures and primals from CNJ, spirits and non-elemental / archetypal eidolens from THM, and elementals and anomalies from Arcanist. -
07-11-2012, 11:31 AMKamikazeMan
I expect it to summon things.
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07-11-2012, 12:43 PMKirohGreat, now that you say it I can't even expect THAT anymore. (Two years of being taught that any expectation will leave you disappointed.)Quote:
Originally Posted by KamikazeMan
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07-11-2012, 02:37 PMDuelleWe're going to have to choose one aspect and stick with it. Otherwise you run the risk of watering down the job. I think a good number of people favor avatars or primals over anything else. It's why people want the recurring avatars like Ramuh and Shiva and such. At the same time, I hope people are aware that the pool of usable summons is going to be smaller with gameplay design and the open world primals per XIV's storyline.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
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07-11-2012, 02:50 PMNiqote
Diversity of abilities. For example in FFXI you have Buffs (Garuda, Fenrir), Healing (Carbuncle), DD (Titan, Ifrit etc)
Balance. I am afraid it will be OP, then shafted with the nerf stick.
Then again... all the classes could use a nice dose of balance. It's a shame to see exclusions.. -
07-11-2012, 02:58 PMChurchill
I don't follow, you can beat any current content with any tank/healer/dd setup you want if you aren't terrible
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07-11-2012, 03:30 PMKoujiGeki
there is alot of lesser primals from all the other FFs for SE to choose from besides the classic Siva ifrit etc. Or Se could surprise us and make all new Primals for us to summon. I just pray that se doesnt get lazy and only give the summoners lame elementals only.
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07-11-2012, 03:36 PMDuelleRanged still has an advantage over melee. That one still needs to be addressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Churchill
Depends. Tanaka & Co. were scared to death of summoners in FFXI because they never placed heavier restrictions on things like switching avatars. They tried to discourage it with summon MP costs and variances in perpetuation and then favors, but the playerbase is very thick-headed and never picked up on it. If you make it really painful to switch avatars, you suddenly don't have to nerf everything out of fear that players will swap avatars faster than they change underwear. I'd use something like the mechanic for Terestian Illhoof, but with player-character detriments instead of just taking more damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niqote
Say that Evokers can keep their avatar out without having to pay perpetuation, and instead spend MP to use avatar abilities as well as abilities they gain from the presence of their avatars. The avatar dies, and the Evoker gets hit by a debuff called Broken Pact that prevents the summoning of another avatar for 3 minutes and reduces all stats by 25%. Dismissing the avatar and trying to summon again within 60 seconds also grants this debuff.
Then at lv30 when you get the Summoner crystal, your first learned ability is Natural Order, an ability that allows Summoners to switch avatars without penalties once every 3 minutes, but it HAS to be an avatar that follows the elemental cycle of the previous avatar (so if you have Phoenix out, you'd have to switch to Shiva as the elemental triat goes from Wind => Fire => Ice). You can justify making avatar abilities stronger across the board under such design, IMO. -
07-11-2012, 03:49 PMHysterior
I want to walk around with Carby again :)
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07-11-2012, 03:50 PMKoujiGekiThere are a few problems with what you said here. Well that WAS a huge problem in 11 for the longest time for summoners, reducing them to only main healer, and almost never actually summoning. I can slighty agree to the not being able to switch Primals once fight starts, BUT if its also includes when they die from AoEs which lets face it they WILL, that will severely hurt Summoners. Cause lets imagine im an elitist, Oh you cant resummon for 3 min?, thats 3 min of no damage, or we get a pet with weakness for 3 min if im reading what you are saying right. Well F*%& summoner get the Blm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
I am in favor of the No perpetual cause, and the more mp to do abilities just not a crippling amount, but it would even out if the cost of summoning was a decent amount to, back to the aoe problem if its alot your gonna got out of mp after your pet dies 3x. So a Summoner should IMO have a refresh even with a Summon out. -
07-11-2012, 03:58 PMDuelleOh, right, I'm thinking in WoW context without really explaining how pet classes in WoW worked. All pets scaled with their master's stats, and also all had inherent damage reduction (I think it was 80%) taken from AoEs. If a pet was dying during a raid fight, it was because it was pulling aggro and the guy playing the hunter/warlock was an idiot that forgot to turn off growl/torment. I'd expect a similar mechanic here, where Avatars would scale with their SMNs stats and also have an inherent mechanic that reduces damage they take from AoEs. Then the game becames about using and focusing on an avatar and, most importantly, keeping the avatar alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by KoujiGeki
Believe me, I'd hate to place such a restriction on SMNs, but I also know that people who graduated from FFXI will try to twist every mechanic they can, and in order to deter it I can't think of something less than a direct kick in the balls to those players.Quote:
I am in favor of the No perpetual cause, and the more mp to do abilities just not a crippling amount, but it would even out if the cost of summoning was a decent amount to, back to the aoe problem if its alot your gonna got out of mp after your pet dies 3x. So a Summoner should IMO have a refresh even with a Summon out.
On refresh, without a doubt it should be and is shared by the caster classes/jobs, so I don't see why Evoker/SMN shouldn't have it as well. -
07-11-2012, 04:09 PMKoujiGeki
ah i see now why some people mentions in other smn threads thats the Primals might not take full aoe dmg. I didnt know wow had that. The problem i see with that now is that defeats bringing any melee DD to ifrit cause whm will need to heal them over time while a Primal takes 80% less from aoes. Thats only an example i know by the time summoners out all Primals will be wanderers.
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07-11-2012, 04:24 PMDuelleVerily. It was done as a way to combat what used to happen in vanilla and TBC, where hunters were prohibited from bringing their pets because it would die in 2 seconds from AoE damage. It's funny because after that was implemented, on progression runs I would die before hunter pets, and I was a ret paladin with a big hammer in my hand wearing heavy armor. XDQuote:
Originally Posted by KoujiGeki
This is why I'd put part of the responsibility on the SMN themselves. The summoner having an ability like Symbiosis means they have the responsibility of helping keep their pet alive.Quote:
The problem i see with that now is that defeats bringing any melee DD to ifrit cause whm will need to heal them over time while a Primal takes 80% less from aoes. Thats only an example i know by the time summoners out all Primals will be wanderers.
As far as the healers go, WoW's healing design played very nicely with pet classes because of smart heals, AoE heals and auras weren't insanely rare nor did it affecting pets cause inconvenience. Prayer of Healing could hit pets and no one lost anything. Chain Heal could bounce off pets, which never caused drama (no "omg my chain heal bounced off your pet and was wasted!?!?!?!?!!"). Pets also benefited from Healing Stream Totem, and again, no problems. I'd like SE to take notes from that so that their game can be friendlier to pet classes without the stupid loopholes that existed in FFXI.
On avatar deaths, I would preffer to discourage people from using their avatars as fodder like they were in XI. I am willing to meet you in the middle, though, and could suggest that Broken Pact takes effect only if you try to switch to another avatar after the one you just had out dies. If you had Phoenix out and it dies from mob damage or from pulling aggro, you get a debuff called Weakened Pact, with a 10% stat pentalty for one minute. The debuff vanishes the moment you resummon Phoenix, thus not giving you much of a pentalty. If you try to summon Leviathan instead, then you get hit with Broken Pact unless you used Natural Order to suppress the penalties.