please no more new jobs

i understand some of you want maybe a gunslinger and i do too to fill out the ranger dps, but if they just give beastmaster a whip and make it a ranger dps, then imo thats good enough.

there are to many jobs in this game resulting in the horrible balancing issues that weve seen in the past with mch/rpr and now rdm. for the games sake, stop with the new jobs and instead expand on what we have.. maybe in 9.0 or 10.0 we can get a new 1 when the game starts to die.. but right now its just not needed anymore. please let this be the end of it.. im sick of my job being underwhelming because its too hard to balance them all. i want my job to give back to me what i give to it. something i feel OTHER mmos do quite well. with professions and tailored skill trees. the jobs are not carrying the expansions anymore.. its the locations, dungeons story and raids.

if beastmaster is a ranged dps with a whip it should honestly be the final job for a LONG time. yes i know its a limited job because it will still be a job in its own right in its own content

Disregarding my personal feelings on the topic the reality of it is that Jobs (and new races) sell expansions.
If we stop doing both of these, as threads on this board suggest, 8.0 and beyond look like really tough sells.

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Originally Posted by Astrus

Disregarding my personal feelings on the topic the reality of it is that Jobs (and new races) sell expansions.
If we stop doing both of these, as threads on this board suggest, 8.0 and beyond look like really tough sells.

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you dont stop developing the currently existing jobs though. you just stop making mroe and mroe low quality jobs. do the jobs really sell the expansions though? did i play endwalker for reaper? hell nah. i played it for the story and the content. the jobs were a nice touch but they werent a big deal to me. i would argue jobs dont sell a game at all. its what you do with them

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

i understand some of you want maybe a gunslinger and i do too to fill out the ranger dps, but if they just give beastmaster a whip and make it a ranger dps, then imo thats good enough.

there are to many jobs in this game resulting in the horrible balancing issues that weve seen in the past with mch/rpr and now rdm. for the games sake, stop with the new jobs and instead expand on what we have.. maybe in 9.0 or 10.0 we can get a new 1 when the game starts to die.. but right now its just not needed anymore. please let this be the end of it.. im sick of my job being underwhelming because its too hard to balance them all. i want my job to give back to me what i give to it. something i feel OTHER mmos do quite well. with professions and tailored skill trees.

if beastmaster is a ranged dps with a whip it should honestly be the final job for a LONG time. yes i know its a limited job because it will still be a job in its own right in its own content

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Then why buy new expansions? This is a terrible idea.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Then why buy new expansions? This is a terrible idea.

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for the story, content, glamour, new skills , new pets for bst and the amazing locations. if you think a job carries a game then why is mhw doing so well despite adding NO new weapons...
just imagine how much they could flesh jobs out if they didnt have to develop more of them.

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Originally Posted by Astrus

Disregarding my personal feelings on the topic the reality of it is that Jobs (and new races) sell expansions.
If we stop doing both of these, as threads on this board suggest, 8.0 and beyond look like really tough sells.

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I was aware of this when I made my thread regarding new races.

It doesn't change the fact that it has to stop at some point.

I grew up playing Pokemon and if there's anything it's taught me it's that multi-generation/expansion/release games have to be careful with the assets they load themselves up with. Eventually they will reach a breaking point where the developers will be overwhelmed with what they have to keep up with.

It'd be far better to tame peoples expectations early on, and find other ways to continue to evolve your series that won't eventually bloat it and burst in your face.

Devs already mentioned they decided to focus on more jobs as they feel its one of the characteristics of an FF game and just an overall big selling point of the game. As for beastmaster its weapon will likely be entirely esthetic as the monster will be doing the heavily lifting, if it plays like pervious version, BM will just be something along a support but just for your monster, healing, buffing, special commands, kind of deal.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

I was aware of this when I made my thread regarding new races.

It doesn't change the fact that it has to stop at some point.

I grew up playing Pokemon and if there's anything it's taught me it's that multi-generation/expansion/release games have to be careful with the assets they load themselves up with. Eventually they will reach a breaking point where the developers will be overwhelmed with what they have to keep up with.

It'd be far better to tame peoples expectations early on, and find other ways to continue to evolve your series that won't eventually bloat it and burst in your face.

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They have already shown that they will homogenise the utter crap out of jobs to make balance easy.
We have 4 different tanks but maybe 1.5 jobs worth of different abilities. They will just introduce new jobs that are functionally the same but look different.

I think they can probably get away from having new jobs each expansion at this point. Many other MMOs, are able to get away with this. However in FFXIV's case, they would have then put more effort into expanding the existing jobs.

I honestly wouldnt mind if next expansion they forgo any new jobs in favor of a combat/job rework but thats wishful thinking on my part

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Originally Posted by Astrus

Disregarding my personal feelings on the topic the reality of it is that Jobs (and new races) sell expansions.
If we stop doing both of these, as threads on this board suggest, 8.0 and beyond look like really tough sells.

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Can I be real a minute? Yoshida could have packaged DT as a box full of human waste and people here would still defend it and buy it on day one. I don't know the exact figures behind it, but there is a massive segment of this game's population that just buys whatever is in front of them regardless of the quality. I know it's difficult to imagine that somebody like this exists (it was for me until I started coming here and looking at posts on the subreddit and XIV twitter) but there are people who only needed the closeup of graha biting a taco to know that they were gonna buy DT day one zero questions asked. The bar is looooow right now, my friend. The bar is in hell. The bar is playing limbo with Satan atm. I have 0 doubt in my mind that they could churn out an expansion pack with a few fanboy cutscenes, no new jobs, and no new races and people here would buy it for the full price while defending it.

The only real question is what percentage of XIV's population are conscientious consumers and what percentage are just fanboys who will buy whatever is in front of them. I'll leave that for you all to decide for yourselves.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

i understand some of you want maybe a gunslinger and i do too to fill out the ranger dps, but if they just give beastmaster a whip

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So, you missed out the announcement of Beastmaster as a second "limited job"?

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

So, you missed out the announcement of Beastmaster as a second "limited job"?

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if beastmaster is a ranged dps with a whip it should honestly be the final job for a LONG time. yes i know its a limited job because it will still be a job in its own right in its own content

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are you being intentionally disengenous?

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

are you being intentionally disengenous?

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Nah. I just read to the line break. Because it seemed odd to mention it at all in a thread titled "please no more new jobs".

Yeah, no. Not having jobs can lead to a lot of discontentment. There's a lot of people that see new jobs as content. I still remember the anger, the absolute rancor when it was announced that Shadowbringers wasn't going to have a Healing Job! The fury! The drama! No new healing jobs for 6 years!? SCANDAL! ...Shadowbringers ended up selling well, of course, but it did cause a rather severe healer shortage for a decent while.

For someone that was originally complaining that endwalkers didn't have enough content and not enjoying the game and hating the games community now you want less content because you don't want more jobs to level.

More jobs are fine.

Would have prefered to not see the level cap raised further. The raised level cap just follows the same trap as other mmo's and just result in design bloat or ridiculous numbers.

There are more ways to retain the grind that are more sustainable.

instead of new jobs I would prefer that they expand current job with different built and skill that you must choose carefully so like for example My DRG will not play the same as your DRG that you have to choose your skills that you want to have and that they are limited

They could even bring back some skills that were removed I would love that it brings interesting possibility or even Variants of curent skills that have different effect like for example : DRK carve and spit attack that usually do 600 potency you could have a variant of it that instead it does 200 potency but it put a Bleed Dot of 50 potency on your target

No more new jobs...

... without an increase in glamour plates.

No. No. No.

At least 2 new jobs have been a working major selling point of expansions forever. Good luck convincing SE of breaking tradition.

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Originally Posted by Tahbitha

No more new jobs...

... without an increase in glamour plates.

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Or a glamour log...

Recession be like.

I dont have a problem with adding more jobs. My problem is them adding more limited jobs. Just make beastmaster a full job in 8.0
Limited jobs are exactly what they are called. Limited. Blue mage must have been a huge success if they are continuing with another limited job.

Huh what-? new jobs rule! Keep adding them!

Y'all ninjas posting in a troll thread.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

for the story, content, glamour, new skills , new pets for bst and the amazing locations. if you think a job carries a game then why is mhw doing so well despite adding NO new weapons...
just imagine how much they could flesh jobs out if they didnt have to develop more of them.

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I've literally never spoken to anyone or heard anyone say they play this game for new jobs. Maybe in the old days that was true. I've never heard that.

It also makes no sense. 20+ jobs and we still haven't made enough for most players? When we have to homogenize and dumb them down due to how many there are? I think there's enough as well.

XIV players undestimate or don't realize how it would be if those resources were poured into refining the jobs and combat vs new jobs. You'd be excited about the changes rather than the illusion of change with a likely homogenous new job.

the problem isn't more jobs make the jobs worse the problem is the jobs are how SE wants them to be, if they stop making jobs to balance them nothing will change cause this is the direction they want the jobs to be and go in.

if anything you need to ask for the direction of jobs to change, they won't but that's what needs to happen for the changes you want.

Jobs are what sells the expansions, alongside the story. They will not stop making new jobs until they stop making new expansions.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I've literally never spoken to anyone or heard anyone say they play this game for new jobs. Maybe in the old days that was true. I've never heard that.

It also makes no sense. 20+ jobs and we still haven't made enough for most players? When we have to homogenize and dumb them down due to how many there are? I think there's enough as well.

XIV players undestimate or don't realize how it would be if those resources were poured into refining the jobs and combat vs new jobs. You'd be excited about the changes rather than the illusion of change with a likely homogenous new job.

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They haven't been getting homogenized and dumbed down due to the amount of jobs in game. It's happening because 1. They for some reason want the small raiding community to use every job equally, and 2. have been dumbing down the entire game for awhile.

I really don't think we want them to start throwing jobs out there that end up being just reskinned existing jobs or incomplete just because expansions have to have new jobs and they can't think of any or don't have the time to. There will come a point where adding new jobs is just not feasible and I feel it's going to be pretty soon. Everquest only has 16 classes, with only 2 of those being added in a later expansion yet the game was successful for a very long time without adding classes every expansion.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

More jobs are fine.

Would have prefered to not see the level cap raised further. The raised level cap just follows the same trap as other mmo's and just result in design bloat or ridiculous numbers.

There are more ways to retain the grind that are more sustainable.

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I think WoW had its level cap up to 120 till the level squish happened in Shadowlands I think? I do hope for FFXIV's sake that they either do a level squish or dont go beyond Lv.100 and introduce some free form horizontal style character progression.

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Originally Posted by Astrus

Disregarding my personal feelings on the topic the reality of it is that Jobs (and new races) sell expansions.
If we stop doing both of these, as threads on this board suggest, 8.0 and beyond look like really tough sells.

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This is the same mentality that green-lights another Star Wars release to sucker nostalgic fans out of their hard earned dollars. It's nothing but a shameful cash grab attempt.

When producers do this, the franchise loses integrity and the main man in charge loses credibility. Releasing new jobs, especially these two abominations coming in 7.0 just to sell expansions says exactly that. You're taking a giant dump on the core playerbase for numbers. This works at first, but once the trust in lost, it's all over.

I don't know how anyone can look at this two new jobs and honestly believe that same time, effort, and dedication is present as it was for HW, SB, and SdB. It's not there, and I know most of us feel it. Especially those who have been around the longest.

If that's the case, it's reasonable to assume that desired changes and improvements to existing jobs, gameplay, and encounter design will be ignored because all of these require the aforementioned time, effort, and dedication. Instead, the devs say, "can't be bothered with all that. Toss 'em a couple carrots and we good."

This airship will nosedive at Mach speed right to the ground. This is coming from someone who has defended this dev team to the nines over many years. I'm noticing the same thing I've seen with popular movie franchises, books, music, animation. A sickness that has infected all forms of entertainment called cash grabbing and pandering.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

They haven't been getting homogenized and dumbed down due to the amount of jobs in game. It's happening because 1. They for some reason want the small raiding community to use every job equally, and 2. have been dumbing down the entire game for awhile.

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I don't disagree with you at all. My point is new jobs are just going to eventually get ruined by the factors you mentioned. So we are stuck in a viscious cycle where little or no resources are being devoted to refining the game vs expanding it, including jobs and combat.

Unless your idea of refining is making almost every class a braindead DPS ripoff so you can finally clear your content with other tabs open.

I think it’s getting really hard to justify new jobs when we straight up had yoshi p stand up during a live letter and go “lol yeah we had no idea what to do with this job so we just threw shit at the wall till something stuck” in regards to a current job

When you have jobs in that condition new jobs just feel like a cheap way to bring in new people while ignoring your core fanbase

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I think WoW had its level cap up to 120 till the level squish happened in Shadowlands I think? I do hope for FFXIV's sake that they either do a level squish or dont go beyond Lv.100 and introduce some free form horizontal style character progression.

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The reason the level cap keeps going up is due to how stripped down the game is from an actual RPG perspective. FFXI was able to maintain a steady player base through multiple expansion cycles without raising the level cap because the game design left a large amount of room for horizontal progression via gear options. People were also more willing to commit time and effort into getting specific gear pieces because the game wasn't going to essentially make it obsolete a few months later.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

It also makes no sense. 20+ jobs and we still haven't made enough for most players?

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I'm not so sure. With 3 major specs in each class in World of Warcraft, that translates to 36 jobs, doesn't it? (Not, of course, counting crafting/gathering).

Heck, they even added another class in their current expansion, 18?19? years after initial release.

i'm starting to believe this guy is just doing well typed bait

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Originally Posted by fantasiaaddict

i'm starting to believe this guy is just doing well typed bait

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Starting to?? Also, well typed??

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I think WoW had its level cap up to 120 till the level squish happened in Shadowlands I think? I do hope for FFXIV's sake that they either do a level squish or dont go beyond Lv.100 and introduce some free form horizontal style character progression.

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And then WoW jumped straight into the endless level pit again, wasting all their effort they put into the damn squish...

I'd love horizontal, though i also know it runs the risk that i experienced with GW2 and ESO, namely that it makes you get content with the game and kinda drop it. Even though i really adore GW2.

Another that could work is just a minor reset, like ok max lvl is 100 but once the next expansion drops everyone at 90+ have their level set to 90 and the gear gets nerfed. Rinse and repeat for every expansions and you've got a sustainable buffer grind before the end-game.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

And then WoW jumped straight into the endless level pit again, wasting all their effort they put into the damn squish...

I'd love horizontal, though i also know it runs the risk that i experienced with GW2 and ESO, namely that it makes you get content with the game and kinda drop it. Even though i really adore GW2.

Another that could work is just a minor reset, like ok max lvl is 100 but once the next expansion drops everyone at 90+ have their level set to 90 and the gear gets nerfed. Rinse and repeat for every expansions and you've got a sustainable buffer grind before the end-game.

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Part of it may also be due to the single long story line spanning multiple expansions. They could take a page from FFXI's book going forward in that each expansion is essentially it's own contained story so when the next expansion releases after Dawntrail, people can experience it without having to complete Dawntrail first. In FFXI you didn't need to finish vanilla to access zilart, promathia, aht ugran, etc...