"SUMMONER" 7.0 Wishlist.

Make Baha summon Levi,Ramuh,Shiva and Pheonix summon Ifrit,Garuda,Titan. (having new gcd / astral flow feel for the opener and even windows will make it feel more engaging and different than the current rotation. Lvl 100 change Baha into Golden baha or somthing cool for power scale feeling and add an aoe 5-10% dmg reduction buff to party to rival RDM magic Barrier and Phoenix Regen. Bring back demi summon combos ( I realize they changed it because phoenix aoe was lackluster due to single target being forced into combo) easy fix, make it so starting the 1-2 combo with ruin demi ability buffs the next tri-disaster demi ability to be a stronger single target one and vice versa tri-disaster 1st makes ruin a stronger aoe ability. Give us "Umbral Flow" giving each Demi and Gemstone Summon a new ability to play with, I doubt this one will happen though because unless its a unique-to-summon ulitlity oGCD it might cram to much into the 60 sec window. HERES TO HOPING WE DONT JUST GET 3 CHARGES OF AEGIS!

They're going to give you High Ruin with a potency of 315 so you can cast that once a minute instead of Ruin III.

LIST
*
*
*
*
/LIST

If you put those inside [ ] you can post a list that isn't just a wall of text.

Not a SMN main here, but anyone else thinks that instead of Bahamut/Phoenix giving access to Ifrit, Garuda and Titan, it should be the other way around? And also that there should be a reason to summon specific primals instead of "It's just your turn now."?

Make it a caster again, finish the rework instead of leaving it in this half-assed state. Like literally do anything with it.

EDIT: But more seriously speaking, the fundamental problem with its current design is that you are given situational utility in terms of movement and healing, but all of that is part of a rigid rotation. You are never going to be able to just opt in for Phoenix for extra healing when you'd actually need it, either it happens to happen at an useful time or not. Once in a blue moon you might be able to adjust your summon order to have the Ifrit dash at an opportune time - But it's already just a dash on an effectively free-movement ranged job. Yay.

It just adds insult to injury to the already paper thin job identity, what little DPS healing (a bafflingly dying mechanic even for actual healers) and a dash on an entirely ranged job provide.

remove the ifrit charge, casters dont need to be warrior charging melee

- Make titan a cast summon.
- Give bahamut cast times.
- Bring back shB's phoenix.
- Separate the carbuncle from the other summons and give it abilities (place dot on the field, rescue, searing light, FoF).
- Reintroduce ruin 4 stacks.
- Halves the Energy drain CD (30s).
- Add only one more summon with melee abilities.

Now, with this little changes, the smn is a class that will strategically use its summons during fights, carefully considering its movement.

I can see us getting a new Demi summon in 7.0. We are spoiled for choice too. Could go with Odin, Alexander or even Thordan and his knights.

How I would expand/change SMN would be

1. add summon Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva, and it would be cool if Ramuh were more of a caster phase, Leviathan had movement based attacks to manage, and Shiva was a full melee phasewith the player transforming into a version of Shiva
2. detach summon Phoenix from the rotation, and make it its own button, but you can now dish out potent heals, and resurrections during its duration
3. the order in which you summon each primal influences your next 2 minute burst ie if your summon order were like Shiva, Ifrit, Leviathan, Garuda, Ramuh, Titan then your burst will be like Bahamut move, Shiva move, Ifirit move, Leviathan move, Garuda move, Ramuh move, and Titan move with the summon buttons transforming into each attack

Let Carby use Aegis on other party members. Learn a trait in the 60s that makes physick use the Int stat like RDM's vercure.

MCH after its rework being one expansion ahead of SMN in that regard, and taking a look at what MCH gained in EW, then I predict that SMN will get:

- A 60s recast spell unlocked by Bahamut and Phoenix that deals a line AoE damage.
- An automatic finisher to the Bahamut and Phoenix pet trances, probably some kind of super Akh-morning (maybe Akh-fternoon idk) that immediately follows up on Akh-Morn and Revelation.

Please look forward to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kreyd

Not a SMN main here, but anyone else thinks that instead of Bahamut/Phoenix giving access to Ifrit, Garuda and Titan, it should be the other way around? And also that there should be a reason to summon specific primals instead of "It's just your turn now."?

---

Without a demi (edit: not primal), it would probably make the opener weaker, but it's like that for many jobs who don't have a full resource anyway, but with that, the 2min marks would have Phoenix instead of baha, which is not really a great feel... I guess the optimal solution would be separating both Demis in their own key and letting us choose.

The reason to summon specific primals is purely situational based whether or not you can stand to cast or be on the move. I think this strategic approach is very superficial, though, and could be more of an interesting problem solving. Maybe it's because they made Garuda and Titan both fill in the same 'free movement' niche, when you can usually save your swiftcast for Slipstream.

For me personally? Make carbuncle an independent summon again. Have him auto attack and maybe give him back some of his old auto use moves. Give us all three flavors of carbuncle, even if the final results are the same.

In general? Get rid of the charge on Ifrit and give us Phoenix's heal as an independent ability. Maybe replace our revive with something Phoenix themed. Fix or remove aetherflow.

I could probably think of more but the old heads in a bit of a haze this morning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Palladiamors

For me personally? Make carbuncle an independent summon again. Have him auto attack and maybe give him back some of his old auto use moves. Give us all three flavors of carbuncle, even if the final results are the same.

In general? Get rid of the charge on Ifrit and give us Phoenix's heal as an independent ability. Maybe replace our revive with something Phoenix themed. Fix or remove aetherflow.

I could probably think of more but the old heads in a bit of a haze this morning.

---

This. I used to play SMN because of the pet doing some damage on its own.. SE changing it to what it is right now left a very sour taste in my mouth that I only spend time on SCH and think of it as the normal progression for ACN. To be honest, it made me love SCH even more.

Reworking Summoners entire raising utility around Phoenix would give some much needed flavor to the job. Maybe instead of the standard boring healer rez, Phoenix would let you mark a party member or two with an auto-raise status. Which is closer to what Phoenix does in some other FF games.

I think it is time to take Physick off ACN actions list. SMN has literally no use for it. As for SCH, disregarding the jank of the pet, this will open up another GCD-like cooldown for the fairy with the same potency as Physick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Reworking Summoners entire raising utility around Phoenix would give some much needed flavor to the job. Maybe instead of the standard boring healer rez, Phoenix would let you mark a party member or two with an auto-raise status. Which is closer to what Phoenix does in some other FF games.

---

It could be Reraise, action only available during the Phoenix phase and maybe with a duration that matches the next application. However if they do this, they must also address RDM's verraise as well. I suppose by just adding a recast time and maybe 2 charges (to keep RDM as a better rezzer of the 2).

It doesn't remove the utility tool completely (not subtracting job fantasy features), and with the constraints and not being available all the time, they can probably think about at least having that rez tax less punitive.

Just a few ideas from me... ill play SMN no matter what happens. These are very Blue Sky Thinking so i know all are unlikely.

Remove:

- Physick
-Resurrection

Adjust:
- the overall rotation so the Jewels give demis and not the other way round. Perhaps give the choice of phoenix or Bahamut by the type of jewels used. so you build up to Demi kinda like how Sb Bahamut was built up to by using Dreadwyrm trance. In this instance, you would need to use all three jewel summons or do something within each to ensure the summon is called.
- Ifrit, Garuda, titan Rotations to further diversify and add more casted abilities.
- Demi Bahamut & Demi phoenix - Restore SHB rotation of 1-2 for phoenix to diversify.
- Energy Drain, energy siphon, affect altered by the current summon you have attuned to or out.
- Fester and Painflare adjusted to be more job Thematic or removed. or affect altered by the current summon you have attuned to or out.
Add

-Add New Gem Summons - Perhaps the warring triad. Or Ramuh, Leviathan and one other (Not shiva due to how she was summoned - although having the SMN become the jewel summons being trance based rather than just attunement would be a good mechanic)
-Add Grand Summon -(They are the eldest and most powerful of all primals after all) Either Hydealyn Simalcrum or Zodiark Simalcrum. As upgrades to bahamut and Phoenix. (and perhaps a glamour system to choose) Alternatively have the grand summon be the finisher burst you build up to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anvaire

Just a few ideas from me... ill play SMN no matter what happens. These are very Blue Sky Thinking so i know all are unlikely.

Remove:

- Physick
-Resurrection

Adjust:
- the overall rotation so the Jewels give demis and not the other way round. Perhaps give the choice of phoenix or bahamut by the type of jewels used. so you build up to Demi kinda like how Sb bahamut ws built up to by using Dreadwyrm trance. In this instance, you would need to use all three jewel summons or do something within each to ensure the summon is called.
- Ifrit, Garuda, titan Rotations to further diversify and add more casted abilities.
- Demi Bahamut & Demi phoenix - Restore SHB rotation of 1-2 for phoenix to diversify.
- Energy Drain, energy siphon, affect altered by the current summon you have attuned to or out.
- Fester and Painflare adjusted to be more job Thematic or removed. or affect altered by the current summon you have attuned to or out.
Add

-Add New Gem Summons (They are the eldest and most powerful of all primals) - Perhaps the warring triad. Or Ramuh, Leviathan and one other (Not shiva due to how she was summoned - although having the SMN become the jewel summons being trance based rather than just attunement would be a good mechanic)
-Add Grand Summon - Either Hydealyn Simalcrum or Zodiark Simalcrum. As upgrades to bahamut and Phoenix. (and perhaps a glamour system to choose) Alternatively have the grand summon be the finisher burst you build up to.

---

We're hauling around Pheonix without issues so I see no reason why Shiva can't be summoned by us either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SieyaM

We're hauling around Pheonix without issues so I see no reason why Shiva can't be summoned by us either.

---

There's a key difference though, we have phoenix due to its aether and Bahamuts being mixed together after the calamity.

We fight phoenix as phoenix, even though it has the soul of lousoix inside it effectively is a primal.

Shiva was evoked as a transformation, it changed how ysale worked and while it could be used as a summon, i personally think it would be better used in a similar way. If we channeled the jewel summons so they affected our player character, i wouldn't be opposed to it. But then, i would also like to have non ARR linked summons as currently thats all we have which is kinda... a shame considering how many Primals / similar constructs we've basked in the aether of.

Bottom line though, its just my personal preference. I'm opposed to it, but not to the point id get mad or upset if they actually added shiva to the summon rosta.

AS a recent summoner leveler, ill add my 2 cents.
#1 please fix psykick, its useless currently
#2 be able to shield others using carby
#3 I personally would love an option to have summon bahamut for example appear much smaller on screen. I get it, its bahamut, but sheesh does he really need to be THAT big?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maolconaire

#3 I personally would love an option to have summon bahamut for example appear much smaller on screen. I get it, its bahamut, but sheesh does he really need to be THAT big?

---

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...d/ded8f6e43d6/

/petsize "Demi-Bahamut" "small"

Wonderful, thank you. Ill check this tonight

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maolconaire

AS a recent summoner leveler, ill add my 2 cents.
#1 please fix psykick, its useless currently
#2 be able to shield others using carby
#3 I personally would love an option to have summon bahamut for example appear much smaller on screen. I get it, its bahamut, but sheesh does he really need to be THAT big?

---

Something does need to be done with Physick, and I would love for Radiant Aegis to be some kind of party wide damage reduction but I don't see how to make it one without mirroring Magick Barrier without the heal potency increase on it.

- Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva
- Bring back Carby/Egi auto-attack
- Re-focus on making SMN a pet job.
- More Egi glamours

SMN/SCH were created because the community voted for a PET class to be added into the game for the launch of 2.0. Therefore SMN/SCH should always be pet orientated jobs first and foremost! SMN's current iteration thematically feels more like an FF SMN...but gameplay wise it is further away from fulfilling it's job purpose than it has ever been...Quite frankly, as a multi billion dollar company SE can easily afford to sink the funding and dev time needed to implement a true pet based SMN/SCH complete with responsive and comprehensive pet AI and a toolkit that revolves around commanding them!...If engine limitations are an issue for this, then it is time to switch to a better engine and begin the transition to FFXIV-2!

Give it a job mechanic ������

- Shiva, Levi and Ramuh on Phoenix phase (or the other way around);
- Titan's gcd have 1.5s cast time;
- Egi Summons stay in the battlefield and attack just like Demi Summons
- 3 Aetherflow charges
- Another aetherflow ability

Still waiting for someone to explain to me the actual benefits of maintaining the current system but adding 3 new colours of ruin 3 into the rotation

I don't get the fascination with Physick. No SMN is ever realistically expected to use it in content past maybe level 20 or so, and even then only if your healer is struggling. Do people want to use it? I don't. With SMN's current design, I'd only get about a single cast of it in safely ever minute; any more than that and It'd be taking the place of a demi GCD. The last time I saw it used to clear a piece of content was somebody solo'ing unsynced A12S two years ago. What's with the obsession with having something done about it that can't be fixed by throwing it off your bars and forgetting it exists?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

I don't get the fascination with Physick. No SMN is ever realistically expected to use it in content past maybe level 20 or so, and even then only if your healer is struggling. Do people want to use it? I don't. With SMN's current design, I'd only get about a single cast of it in safely ever minute; any more than that and It'd be taking the place of a demi GCD. The last time I saw it used to clear a piece of content was somebody solo'ing unsynced A12S two years ago. What's with the obsession with having something done about it that can't be fixed by throwing it off your bars and forgetting it exists?

---

Exactly, vercure is a better version of an INT scaling physick and even it is used basically exclusively as a downtime mechanic to proc dualcast

Why do people want to press physick, I’m physically allergic to pressing it on SCH and SCH is a healer, why the hell would I want to press it on a DPS

this obsession with adding Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva/Alexander/whatever that everyone has with SMN is honestly so embarrassing...

guys, can we address literally anything else about the job first before adding more superficial rainbow explosions? Aetherflow? Carby?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VentVanitas

this obsession with adding Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva/Alexander/whatever that everyone has with SMN is honestly so embarrassing...

guys, can we address literally anything else about the job first before adding more superficial rainbow explosions? Aetherflow? Carby?

---

What; you mean having having 6 colours of ruin 3 instead of three to cast isn’t a job identity

Preposterous, pls take your wrong opinions somewhere else /s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VentVanitas

this obsession with adding Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva/Alexander/whatever that everyone has with SMN is honestly so embarrassing...

guys, can we address literally anything else about the job first before adding more superficial rainbow explosions? Aetherflow? Carby?

---

Nothing "embarrassing" about peoples individual WISHLISTS for a job they love...only thing that is actually embarrassing is your attitude...

Furthermore, at the risk of being mistaken...I will assume you are unaware of the history regarding SMN and having Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva as summons. These three have actually been promised for SMN since way back in the 2.x patch cycle. This was back when SMN was a DoT mage with full control over the Egi as true pets. A model for the Ramuh-Egi was actually developed but ended up being used in the game as the Grey Arbiters in the Ramuh trial. Furthermore in Live Letters back from the 2.x cycle Yoshi-P himself even spoke of a Shiva-Egi being in active development and it apparently looking something like a "cute ice nun"

OG SMN mains have been dying for these three summons ever since they were promised 10 YEARS AGO! So yeah, of course people want them!....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

Nothing "embarrassing" about peoples individual WISHLISTS for a job they love...only thing that is actually embarrassing is your attitude...

Furthermore, at the risk of being mistaken...I will assume you are unaware of the history regarding SMN and having Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva as summons. These three have actually been promised for SMN since way back in the 2.x patch cycle. This was back when SMN was a DoT mage with full control over the Egi as true pets. A model for the Ramuh-Egi was actually developed but ended up being used in the game as the Grey Arbiters in the Ramuh trial. Furthermore in Live Letters back from the 2.x cycle Yoshi-P himself even spoke of a Shiva-Egi being in active development and it apparently looking something like a "cute ice nun"

OG SMN mains have been dying for these three summons ever since they were promised 10 YEARS AGO! So yeah, of course people want them!....

---

But what would they add to SMN, the job is a level 60 job masquerading as a level 90 job as it is, they can’t even do anything unique with the current 3 primals, what does adding 3 new ones actually do besides aesthetic differences

Additions to a job should evolve the job (well besides healers but square pretends they don’t exist), as it stands right now they have shown no proof they have any idea what they are doing with current SMN so what does adding more of the same actually achieve

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

But what would they add to SMN, the job is a level 60 job masquerading as a level 90 job as it is, they can’t even do anything unique with the current 3 primals, what does adding 3 new ones actually do besides aesthetic differences

Additions to a job should evolve the job (well besides healers but square pretends they don’t exist), as it stands right now they bane shown no proof they have any idea what they are doing with current SMN so what does adding more of the same actually achieve

---

That's a very fair point. I had the same concern when they brought the new Gemshine Summon mechanic into play...We never got Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva as Egi back then for the same reason. As a result they were put on the back burner and promised as Egi Glamours instead...(and the devs have failed on that promise too I might add!) So even as Gemshine Summons, it's true they would be better off as glamours...However the purpose of the thread is for an individuals wishlist...Having Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva even as glamours is a wish many SMN players still have. Therefore they're perfectly valid inclusions to have on a SMN wishlist...It is very bizarre that there are people here who are genuinly trying to gatekeep a wishlist of all things...like, the clue is in the name WISH...

With that being said, not a single person here has said they would want Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva over SMN being given an actual identity! These are just hypothetical wishlists...I dunno why people be acting as if only one thing on each list can be chosen over another...How about we get the entire list of wishes...That's the point afterall!

The debate about additional summons being useful and what individual purpose they would serve in the SMN toolkit is one that raged back when 3.0 was on the horizon, and it ultimately lead to the other summons (Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva/even Sephirot) promised as Egi Glamours by Yoshi-P himself...After 3.0 the debate rose again, this time people wanted multiple Trances for each Summon...but again, it was the same issue...Then, after 4.0/5.0 it was multiple Demi's...And now again the same debate has come back with Gemshines...

I think the problem is that the fundamental game mechanics don't allow for enough leeway for multiple truly unique summons to exist...FFXIV is just so insanley vertical in all aspects that there is no room for any kind of flavour or customization to really anything other than glamour and cosmetics. Everything is designed to fit a cookie cutter mold that is used and reused until it falls apart. SMN can never be a true SMN as a result...In fact, I'd argue the only way it could would be to turn it into a Limited Job...because there is no other way to get every summon with unique mechanics/functions into the game any other way unless it's through glamours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

But what would they add to SMN, the job is a level 60 job masquerading as a level 90 job as it is, they can’t even do anything unique with the current 3 primals, what does adding 3 new ones actually do besides aesthetic differences

Additions to a job should evolve the job (well besides healers but square pretends they don’t exist), as it stands right now they have shown no proof they have any idea what they are doing with current SMN so what does adding more of the same actually achieve

---

Certainly, especially if they keep the current system and add Leviathan, Shiva, Ramuh to the rotation, they will only be imitations of Ifrit, Garuda, Titan's mechanisms.

With the current meta based on bursts every 120s, they simply cannot afford DPS fluctuations between the old elemental summons and the new ones.

The worst part is that they won't be able to create unique things either because it would create too much disparity between the cycle after Bahamut and after Phoenix.

In the current state of things, as you mentioned, it would be like a reskin of the three basic summons.

They need to modify how the summoner works for it to be possible and for the job's identity to evolve, not stagnate with an ultra-limited design locked behind a simple reskin system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VentVanitas

this obsession with adding Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva/Alexander/whatever that everyone has with SMN is honestly so embarrassing...

guys, can we address literally anything else about the job first before adding more superficial rainbow explosions? Aetherflow? Carby?

---

Why when obviously it’s not gonna change. “Ahem” healers. Been screaming for years and yet nothing. This is the iteration of summoner we have so might as well roll with it. It’s not gonna change. At least not anything soon. It’s a very popular job right now.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...75#post6402875

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SweetPete

Why when obviously it’s not gonna change. “Ahem” healers. Been screaming for years and yet nothing. This is the iteration of summoner we have so might as well roll with it. It’s not gonna change. At least not anything soon. It’s a very popular job right now.

---

don't care + cringe defeatism + I'm not asking for DoT mage back

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by remiff

They need to modify how the summoner works for it to be possible and for the job's identity to evolve, not stagnate with an ultra-limited design locked behind a simple reskin system.

---

the job (in my opinion, anyway) at the barest minimum to improve requires a change to demi summons and a revisit to the gems' placement in the rotation. specifically, the rigid cooldown on Bahamut/Phoenix and gem summons and how they leave no room for substantial future additions. without addressing that, there's pretty much no moving forward with SMN.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VentVanitas

the job (in my opinion, anyway) at the barest minimum to improve requires a change to demi summons and a revisit to the gems' placement in the rotation. specifically, the rigid cooldown on Bahamut/Phoenix and gem summons and how they leave no room for substantial future additions. without addressing that, there's pretty much no moving forward with SMN.

---

The more I think about it, the worse it gets, even as somebody who doesn't typically try to analyze jobs, but this one's just right there in your face. I'm actually worried they will just add three new summons that replace I/T/G during Phoenix phase, because honestly that's the most straightforward thing they can do with that's on the table. "Well, many players were requesting it... Please look forward to it." Three new summons, and a resource that generates once you go through all 6 primals that's used on a new 120s instant-cast ability you'll use during buffs. I don't like it, but I bet that's what they're going to do, unless they actually do want to do some reworking.