The biggest hurdle to hitting crystal is...

Not getting queues.

For days now, the queue just sits forever.

I only first started getting but a handful of games last night, for a batch of 5 games, and then the queue immediately died again.

It's late in the season, this is normal.

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Originally Posted by iVolke

It's late in the season, this is normal.

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So why smash casual over ranked if neither matter at this point?

Logic doesn't check out.

inb4 faulty logic - "Casual is easier and more enjoyable for higher ranked chars!"

Except not, because nobody likes playing with bots, afkers, and low-efforts in casual. That's a last resort. Ranked sorts that out the higher you go.

Yet here we are, casual queue overwhelmed, and Ranked barren.

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

So why smash casual over ranked if neither matter at this point?

Logic doesn't check out.

inb4 faulty logic - "Casual is easier and more enjoyable for higher ranked chars!"

Except not, because nobody likes playing with bots, afkers, and low-efforts in casual. That's a last resort. Ranked sorts that out the higher you go.

Yet here we are, casual queue overwhelmed, and Ranked barren.

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in ranked theres consequence to losing so it does matter more than casual, some might not wanna risk their rank or are tired of losing so they wait till next season or they got to the rank they wanted, i stayed plat for season 1-4 for alliteration purposes and now im always playing(aside from the days that i cant) because cc is challenging, its because casual offers nothing to lose and alot to gain, that its more active than ranked also its just as ivolke said, the logic checks out fine when you put more thought into it, i would prefer if the rank reset every season but unfortunately that probably wont happen

Have you considered just queuing for ranked with more skill? Just do it better.

It's the usual, there's handful of regulars tackling ranks early season and having last minute games at very end of the season.

There's nothing worthwhile for your average player to queue up for, most of the rewards are one and done.

I miss Season 1 grindfest with tons of people.

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

in ranked theres consequence to losing so it does matter more than casual, some might not wanna risk their rank or are tired of losing so they wait till next season or they got to the rank they wanted, i stayed plat for season 1-4 for alliteration purposes and now im always playing(aside from the days that i cant) because cc is challenging, its because casual offers nothing to lose and alot to gain, that its more active than ranked also its just as ivolke said, the logic checks out fine when you put more thought into it, i would prefer if the rank reset every season but unfortunately that probably wont happen

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What consequence? You go down in ranks until you're at the bottom of that tier and then nothing happens?

Also, you also drop ranks from inactivity so there's that too. Other people outclimb your spot.

Please, the only real consequence is when you're trying to climb out of diamond and into crystal, where you can actually drop ranked tiers.

Other than that it's literally just a numbers game.

I'm climbing on pld right now, and it's just the numbers that matter until Diamond +.

People just have a bad perception in their mind, or they're trying to mask an ego.

You're going to lose, get over it, it's part of the climb. You just gotta outlast the bad matches.

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

What consequence? You go down in ranks until you're at the bottom and then nothing happens?

Please, the only real consequence is when you're trying to climb out of diamond and into crystal, where you can actually drop ranked tiers.

Other than that it's literally just a numbers game.

I'm climbing on pld right now, and it's just the numbers that matter until Diamond +.

People just have a bad perception in their mind, or they're trying to mask an ego.

You're going to lose, get over it, it's part of the climb. You just gotta outlast the bad matches.

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if you think its just about one's rank then you really gotta think more about the facets of the state of ranked activity, i stated rank as just one example but theres a plethora, not everyone has the time or interest in the "numbers game" , so a loss that results in 5-20 min per match and not counting que time is enough for some to to not play in what some might think as waste of time compared to casual where again theres nothing to lose and alot to gain,

also if youre goin into the mindset of "just a numbers game" you probably wont make it that far, its more than just that, theres timing of what and when to use your toolkit as well as team combos and positioning, baiting , blocking ect

i dont know where youre getting this "ego" psycho analytic from but its defo a bit of stretch compared to the more obvious answer that its late in the season and there are other things to do with ones time

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

if you think its just about one's rank then you really gotta think more about the facets of the state of ranked activity, i stated rank as just one example but theres a plethora, not everyone has the time or interest in the "numbers game" , so a loss that results in 5-20 min per match and not counting que time is enough for some to to not play in what some might think as waste of time compared to casual where again theres nothing to lose and alot to gain,

also if youre goin into the mindset of "just a numbers game" you probably wont make it that far, its more than just that, theres timing of what and when to use your toolkit as well as team combos and positioning, baiting , blocking ect

i dont know where youre getting this "ego" psycho analytic from but its defo a bit of stretch compared to the more obvious answer that its late in the season and there are other things to do with ones time

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No it literally is just a numbers game.

Balancing is done based on win ratios, just like their crappy frontline system. Your ability to carry your team is limited, especially in this garbo system unless you're one of the super strong power classes (DRK, NIN, DRG, SAM, MCH - BLM is a meme).

There is no penalty to losing other than dropping a series if you're Diamond +, or dropping that current rank within your tier.

It's literally as straight forward as that.

I've done diamond + on 5 difference characters, in multiple seasons.

How many have you done?

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

No it literally is just a numbers game.

Balancing is done based on win ratios, just like their crappy frontline system. Your ability to carry your team is limited, especially in this garbo system unless you're one of the super strong power classes (DRK, NIN, DRG, MCH - BLM is a meme).

There is no penalty to losing other than dropping a series if you're Diamond +, or dropping that current rank within your tier.

It's literally as straight forward as that.

I've done diamond + on 5 difference characters, in multiple seasons.

How many have you done?

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in the words of The Dude "Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man."

if you wanna keep this mentality then good luck in your ranked endeavors, im not gonna have a pissing match of who has/had a higher rank

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

in the words of The Dude "Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man."

if you wanna keep this mentality then good luck in your ranked endeavors, im not gonna have a pissing match of who has/had a higher rank

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It's not actually opinion, it's fact.

I just want to make it clear, that the issue here is not that I have to be right, it's that you can't be wrong.

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

It's not actually opinion, it's fact.

I just want to make it clear, that the issue here is not that I have to be right, it's that you can't be wrong.

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theres not much to be wrong about, you started this thread because ranked isnt active and despite multiple people telling you the various reason as to why you respond with "but casual is active" as if these are comparable ,
then you go on about saying ranked doesnt have a downside to loosing and therefore people should just keep queing in order to satisfy your own climb instead of just accepting that ranked is gonna get/be slow and make an effort for next season ,since its so easy for you to get to diamond + on 5 characters. i get it ,truly i do but to be honest this thread has gone way past the point of just venting to where youre just now bitter and i get it but its not gonna help you or pvp in this game

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

Not getting queues.

For days now, the queue just sits forever.

I only first started getting but a handful of games last night, for a batch of 5 games, and then the queue immediately died again.

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

What consequence? You go down in ranks until you're at the bottom of that tier and then nothing happens?

Also, you also drop ranks from inactivity so there's that too. Other people outclimb your spot.

Please, the only real consequence is when you're trying to climb out of diamond and into crystal, where you can actually drop ranked tiers.

Other than that it's literally just a numbers game.

I'm climbing on pld right now, and it's just the numbers that matter until Diamond +.

People just have a bad perception in their mind, or they're trying to mask an ego.

You're going to lose, get over it, it's part of the climb. You just gotta outlast the bad matches.

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That's what happens when you make it easier to climb. Something breaks in the ranking system, and queues eventually die somewhere within rank. I honestly don't see that changing as long as getting everyone into the higher ranks remain a priority.

Consequences are severe late into the season. I had to find that out the hard way. A couple of seasons ago I've invaded the Crystal server and got to diamond for the first time. I've coasted throughout the season. However, it took one night to be in a room full of top 100. Instead of staying out of queue I tried to climb. 3 straight hours struggling while being diamond 5 the entire time before eventually being pushed back to platinum. I've never gotten another game for the rest of the season despite queues staying at 5 minutes. So these days I don't spend too much time in rank.

I do agree that for some people there's nothing to learn in casual games. However, let's be honest. Why queue rank if you're going to be potentially punished by not getting games for simply being bad? How can you 'git gud' if you're forced to sit out? There's literally no difference between now and back then when a few people were forced to sit in rank queue for 7+ hours. I'm sorry if you got the short end of the stick, but that's how things are, especially in platinum.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

That's what happens when you make it easier to climb. Something breaks in the ranking system, and queues eventually die somewhere within rank. I honestly don't see that changing as long as getting everyone into the higher ranks remain a priority.

Consequences are severe late into the season. I had to find that out the hard way. A couple of seasons ago I've invaded the Crystal server and got to diamond for the first time. I've coasted throughout the season. However, it took one night to be in a room full of top 100. Instead of staying out of queue I tried to climb. 3 straight hours struggling while being diamond 5 the entire time before eventually being pushed back to platinum. I've never gotten another game for the rest of the season despite queues staying at 5 minutes. So these days I don't spend too much time in rank.

I do agree that for some people there's nothing to learn in casual games. However, let's be honest. Why queue rank if you're going to be potentially punished by not getting games for simply being bad? How can you 'git gud' if you're forced to sit out? There's literally no difference between now and back then when a few people were forced to sit in rank queue for 7+ hours. I'm sorry if you got the short end of the stick, but that's how things are, especially in platinum.

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I really hate derank and was against it for the longest time. But the community asked for this unfortunately. They hated all the casuals being in Crystal rank in season 1 and 2 that made their titles and stuff feel undeserving because of how easy it was to climb. The community wanted ranked to be limited to the most dedicated and try hard of players. Not the causals that decide to play a month after the season starts. You can blame those people for why the queues are as bad as they are now. They wanted this because this is the "industry standard for PvP" they are used to and makes things feel more competitive for themselves by gate keeping everyone else out. I absolutely agree that you can't get good if you have to sit out.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

I really hate derank and was against it for the longest time. But the community asked for this unfortunately. They hated all the casuals being in Crystal rank in season 1 and 2 that made their titles and stuff feel undeserving because of how easy it was to climb. The community wanted ranked to be limited to the most dedicated and try hard of players. Not the causals that decide to play a month after the season starts. You can blame those people for why the queues are as bad as they are now. They wanted this because this is the "industry standard for PvP" they are used to and makes things feel more competitive for themselves by gate keeping everyone else out. I absolutely agree that you can't get good if you have to sit out.

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Let me see if I can explain this without missing the point or outright ignoring you. TL : DR - you're wrong. (JK. Please let me joke...)

Right now you have 3 groups: those who see the game as a skillful game, those who see the game as an RNG game, and those who got left behind and are unable to participate at all due to factors beyond their control.

Those who see it as a skill game is unsurprisingly those who have played for a long time. After all, rank is supposed to be games WITH people of similar skill level. (I have yet to see it this expansion lol) I can't deny about them being upset that them being too many casuals at the top. However, it was said at one point that rank was no different than casual queue. If that's the case why have 2 separate queues? It's a waste. Rank and casual should never have the same atmosphere feeling. While I do think that it should be slightly easier to climb in rank I do not agree with how that was handled at all. I would have been fine with a loss prevention system over...this.

Those who see it as an RNG game is unsurprisingly those who have defended the no penalty system. "I deserve Crystal because of my teammates." "Losing rank progress feels bad." Imagine if you didn't lose any stars for losses. Imagine is you didn't lose any points in Crystal for losses. At that point this is no longer about how great you are as a player but how much points you have earned through winning. Funny enough a similar system was used when crafters and gatherers got their own contest an expansion ago. Those that participated can tell you how that went. If folks are blaming their teammates for losses I do have to worry about what would happen if you were only allowed to que solo mode regardless of what mode you picked. (I'm looking at you frontline players...from a distance)

Then there are those who are left behind. It's those who have either started late or wasn't able to climb with the star system. It's that very small group that are often bypassed. I remember a thread back in season 2 where someone said that they wasn't able to get any games, and the only comment I saw then was "Try again next season." That's the result of not having an impactful punishment for losing games. That's the result of everything being funneled to the top and not having a way to trickle down ever leaving everything below barren. This is the group that I now fight for. "Try again next season" is a poor excuse and doesn't solve the problem of the rank system being broken. It's only justifies the bubble's existence.

I was solely behind adding demotion back into the game. In fact, I wanted folks to get demoted back to BRONZE for repeated losses if it's deserved. It's probably the harshest thing I've said thus far. However, I care about play time. No one should be locked out of rank for simply being low. I do believe that not setting a bar as to where people should go will fix a few things: running into the same players over and over again, playing in a room that's 2 tiers above you, and the inflated crystal ladder to name a few. It's a shame that rank has the 2nd smallest window to play in the entire of pvp queues compared to casual which anybody can play at nearly any given time.

That's just me though. If most are willing to walk away from the traditional way or have an entire different way of pvp's vision I don't mind getting out the way for everyone to do their work, do their magic, and discuss. If I'm wrong about something I don't mind accepting this as well.

I know there are a slew of other reasons as to why the ques die down mid-season, but I want to throw out a take I haven't read yet.

I don't want anything to do with the ranked queues unless I am actively pursuing a reward. The reality is that I don't/won't try as hard unless I am actively working towards something. The pursuit of placing top 100 for the sake of placing a high rank? Not something that interests me. The pursuit of becoming a better pvper? Also not something that interests me anymore (to an extent). I don't want my 4 other teammates to be disadvantaged because of that lack of investment, so I won't queue for ranked.

If incremental rewards (of some variation and value) were given while progressing the ranks, this might be a different story.

Do I dislike pvp? Not at all; between CC and FL that is what takes up 90% of my xiv time now. I bring this up because I know (anecdotally) that I am not the only one here like this. I'm not ready to give my best shot in CC all the time, and I think it would be unfair to my teammates to queue with that type of mentality. So if we're in the business of wondering why the casual queue is constantly on fire and the rank queue is not, this could be one reason.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

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I think the issue I see is that Crystal rank is over valued by the community. It's the furthest rank so it must mean something right? But Crystal rank is just the start of the ranked experience. In order to participate in ranked you must achieve crystal, everything prior to crystal is just a qualifier for it. That's why Crystal starts you with a small score and increases and decreases similar to the older ranked system. That's also why not demoting wasn't that big of a deal imo. Crystal never seemed like it was meant to be something difficult to achieve. It seemed like it was more like "ok, congrats you've made it this far, now the real ranked begins."

Now whether that system was a good one or not. I mean probably not right?

Bronze - Crystal (starting) are meant for casual players, but then actually participating in Crystal ranked is meant for competitive, while also casual queue is meant for casual players.

The issue with pvp is going to always be that Square Enix is trying very hard to please both casual players and competitive players at the same time. Sometimes you just can't please everyone, the further they make it casual the less competitive players enjoy it, and the more competitive you make it the less casual players will play it.

However, unfortunately at least in my experience over the entire games lifetime, there are not enough competitive players in FF14 who will play a competitive mode without some kind of special reward( and even with one), to keep the queues alive for any long period of time. Everyone will grab the rank they think they need and sit out as they've done for every single season since season 1 of the feast. So you need casual players to sustain the queues.

How do they solve it? Well I think they tried before they added the demotions back in to try to make things a bit more competitive. That's why Crystal was easy to obtain and sustain, to keep queues alive, unfortunately FFXIV has never been in a situation where the queues can be kept alive but also the games can be of the highest quality. They've honestly been trying for years with the simplification of PvP down to where it is now.

A lot of players seem to think that unique rewards like feast had would solve it, but realistically that would probably do nothing at all to change player behavior, especially since this has existed since the feast anyway. People just obtained ranks and sat unless they felt very threatened. This circle has been repeating since the first season of ranked pvp ever.

Maybe more participation rewards in ranked could help, but I don't know for how long that would work either. Once people got what they wanted why would they continue playing ranked when casual is right there.

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Originally Posted by yaba_gabagool

I've done diamond + on 5 difference characters, in multiple seasons.

How many have you done?

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hey i can flex my achievements too

just win and you will climb

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

Those who see it as a skill game is unsurprisingly those who have played for a long time. After all, rank is supposed to be games WITH people of similar skill level. (I have yet to see it this expansion lol) I can't deny about them being upset that them being too many casuals at the top. However, it was said at one point that rank was no different than casual queue. If that's the case why have 2 separate queues? It's a waste. Rank and casual should never have the same atmosphere feeling. While I do think that it should be slightly easier to climb in rank I do not agree with how that was handled at all. I would have been fine with a loss prevention system over...this.

Then there are those who are left behind. It's those who have either started late or wasn't able to climb with the star system. It's that very small group that are often bypassed. I remember a thread back in season 2 where someone said that they wasn't able to get any games, and the only comment I saw then was "Try again next season." That's the result of not having an impactful punishment for losing games. That's the result of everything being funneled to the top and not having a way to trickle down ever leaving everything below barren. This is the group that I now fight for. "Try again next season" is a poor excuse and doesn't solve the problem of the rank system being broken. It's only justifies the bubble's existence.

I was solely behind adding demotion back into the game. In fact, I wanted folks to get demoted back to BRONZE for repeated losses if it's deserved. It's probably the harshest thing I've said thus far. No one should be locked out of rank for simply being low. running into the same players over and over again, playing in a room that's 2 tiers above you, and the inflated crystal ladder to name a few. It's a shame that rank has the 2nd smallest window to play in the entire of pvp queues compared to casual which anybody can play at nearly any given time.

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unless i read it wrong but i dont know how you can be a casual and at the top? unless youre referring to those that just get to crystal and are done for the season ,then i honestly dont have an issue with them or that nor do i see anything wrong with it, as theres always going to be others who arent satisfied and want more matches.

again unless im reading you wrong but there needs to be 2 modes, its not a waste, i can go into it further but theres thread somewhere where ive already made the argument and i can post at a later date

aside from the occasional tips or advice or links to resources (PVPrimal discord) "try again next season" is all anyone can do, it sucks and im sure theres more some wish they could do but we're not devs we have no power(especially here in the NA/EU forums)

i completely agree with demotion all the way to bronze/unrank being a feature but also i think a rank reset for each season would work just as well.

YEAHHHHHHHHHHH RION THATS MY PALADIN KICK HIS ASS WITH FACTS AND LOGIC WOOOOOOOOOO

anyhow mr gabagool you are ill informed

ok I'm going back to playing poe

dam looking through 2 pages of nothing

rank is dead because there is no decay it's simple as that lol

and people doesn't want decay which is why the game mode aren't taken seriously


i play gw2 where decay start hitting every 3 days

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Originally Posted by Lalisajr

rank is dead because there is no decay it's simple as that lol

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assuming people play because of decay, if everyone decays, it will stay the same
this gamemode isnt that popular, you will do better with 1,5 multiplier to ranking like a daily or weekly for a few matches as incentive