PVP: Should Frontlines and Rival Wings just be merged

insane ramblings:

Make Frontlines 1 team vs 1 team like rival wings and add the 2 wings maps to the fronline rotation / roulette

Yay / Nay

To what end? What's wrong with having different PVP options to play?

God no, FL modes suck, rival wings is actually fun when it's popping consistently.

No, but RW seriously needs its own roulette to get more people playing outside of moogle events.

There's a chance 1V1 FL would make it more winnable again. Problem is they would likely lower the DR back down to RW levels, which would make it a moot point. As for RW, it's a completely different game mode. What should've been done by now at least is having more RW maps.

I miss the other Rival Wings map but I heard it's so hated; it won't come back unless they remodel the entire map. That said, there is a new Rival Wings map coming in 7.0 so an RW roulette would really fit.

No, keep them separate but a RW roulette would be fun.

No.
10char.

Seriously though, the required skillset for frontlines is to "be there" and "don't die".

Rival wings is completely different.

Sure, you might get more people playing rival wings if they get forced into it, but the quality of play from them... do you really want to try to swim with a 5 ton anchor chained to your neck?

They shouldn't be forced together, but Rival Wings definitely could use a second map and a daily reward much like Frontlines has definitely would help it be more popular.

A Rival Wings roulette, or merge them both, I don't mind either way but one or the other should have happened a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by AstreaTrinity

insane ramblings:

Make Frontlines 1 team vs 1 team like rival wings and add the 2 wings maps to the fronline rotation / roulette

Yay / Nay

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It's super subjective, but I say Yay, on the condition that FL either gets changed to two teams, or keeps the 3-team mode, and gets an alternate 2-team mode. Frontlines' biggest flaws objectively stem from two major factors: the player count, and the rng-based objectives. Rival Wings ironically fixed all of Frontlines' problems. It doesn't have tick-rate issues caused by too many players fusterclucking in one spot, it doesn't have the annoying damage reduction modifiers set in place because of said player count, and the objectives being static and consistent mean every player always knows where they're needed at all times, and teams can split as necessary to tackle different objectives.

If not merging the two, I'd at least like to see a shift in focus for Frontlines design towards just two teams, because at least then it'll fix a lot of the technical annoyance of the mode.

The game mode is just basically never played barring dedicated groups on specific days of the week.

Which is a shame because it's way more fun than frontlines.


They need a rival wings daily. I'm still baffled they took the time to fix it after the PvP update then give no incentive for people to do it.

Make Frontlines 1 team vs 1 team like rival wings (NO) and add the 2 wings maps to the fronline rotation / roulette (NO)


What I would like however is to have a second map added to RW, that's long overdue, and no, I used to want a roulette for RW, however I don't think it would work out well given that you need more knowledge (mechs, trains, etc) than FL.

Rival wings is wretched, so no. But they should give rival wings it's own roulette so people who like it can maybe do it outside of community event time.

I'd love it if RW got its own roulette, but I also wouldn't mind if they just added it to the FL roulette rotation. It would be better than having RW be in its current state.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

What I would like however is to have a second map added to RW, that's long overdue, and no, I used to want a roulette for RW, however I don't think it would work out well given that you need more knowledge (mechs, trains, etc) than FL.

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How would the lack of a roulette have anything to do with teaching players about the mechanics of a game mode? Players don't learn if they can't even play the mode to begin with, and a second map wouldn't mean much when RW is already on community life-support.

That small part of me that's still invested in PvP hopes and wishes these """changes""" in Dawntrail will be them shifting Frontlines into a two-team design with more focused objectives, and that's exactly what Rival Wings already is and does well.

Nope
Rival wings should be its own roulette

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

It's super subjective, but I say Yay, on the condition that FL either gets changed to two teams, or keeps the 3-team mode, and gets an alternate 2-team mode. Frontlines' biggest flaws objectively stem from two major factors: the player count, and the rng-based objectives.

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I disagree with that. The impact of placement of objectives is minimal. The biggest rng factor is who you end up with. What negatively affects a team is a number of things such as bad group strategy, running into obvious pinches, focusing the wrong objectives, ignoring how points work, moving too slowly, not knowing when to push and when to move out, people running like chickens with their heads chopped off (or not moving at all), not knowing how to counter some abilities or use their kits properly, not caring, etc.

With 3 groups the strategy is different than with 2 groups and there are a number of factors that have to be taken into account, including the weaknesses and strengths of a group.

Give Rival Wings it's own Roulette.

Reduce the amount of players in FL from 24 per team to something like 15, with 3 x 5 player teams per faction to make the AoE buffs etc. work in line of CC balance. Remove Damage Reduction or lower it below RW levels.

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

How would the lack of a roulette have anything to do with teaching players about the mechanics of a game mode? Players don't learn if they can't even play the mode to begin with, and a second map wouldn't mean much when RW is already on community life-support.

That small part of me that's still invested in PvP hopes and wishes these """changes""" in Dawntrail will be them shifting Frontlines into a two-team design with more focused objectives, and that's exactly what Rival Wings already is and does well.

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I understand why you're asking that, and this is how I used to think as well. in used to really be a promoter of adding RW to a roulette, until I saw, over the years, just how many people either AFKed, fed, did the bare minimum, ignored objectives, and couldn't care about winning in FL.

The people that do RW now want to do it. They may not win but they'll usually try to do so. There may even be the odd person who will have a macro to explain how RW works, and (most) people will actually listen.

So, I find RW quite accessible now- if it did go to a a roulette then I would want it to give no exp, no glam, nor game currency (i.e. tomestones). Maybe a token, very small amount of gil and a title for "x" amount of wins.

No. But Rival Wings should be given a Roulette like Frontlines has. It would way boost matches making if it did, and I honestly don't know why they haven't done this by now.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

I disagree with that. The impact of placement of objectives is minimal. The biggest rng factor is who you end up with. What negatively affects a team is a number of things such as bad group strategy, running into obvious pinches, focusing the wrong objectives, ignoring how points work, moving too slowly, not knowing when to push and when to move out, people running like chickens with their heads chopped off (or not moving at all), not knowing how to counter some abilities or use their kits properly, not caring, etc.

With 3 groups the strategy is different than with 2 groups and there are a number of factors that have to be taken into account, including the weaknesses and strengths of a group.

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Exactly.

"RNG objective spawn" is a common excuse of players who have no idea what they're doing in Frontline.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

I disagree with that. The impact of placement of objectives is minimal.

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You'd be surprised. While there is still some degree of predictability in what objectives will spawn and when in modes, it's still ultimately up to chance. Teams can't preemptively plan around chance, you have to react to it. It's one of the reasons teams in Frontlines just blob around the map in one group, because you have to react to objectives as they spawn. I just think that's a very uninspired way to go about matches, but I know it's not going to change with just one adjustment.

Funnily, the one mode that had objectives you could react to at all times was Secure, and it's MIA. Even more ironic, you'd still just spend 80% of that mode running between two points on your mount...

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The biggest rng factor-...

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Really, all of these contribute to the mess FL often is. The rng-based objectives are just one part of it, not separate.

Honestly, I don't want Frontlines, as it is now, anywhere near a Rival Wings daily challenge. Their respective players have entirely separate mindsets and motivations, and having an influx of people who can't be asked to do anything other than press their 'walk forward' key until they die and respawn would not be welcome to most RW players.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Exactly.

"RNG objective spawn" is a common excuse of players who have no idea what they're doing in Frontline.

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Players can blame crap objective spawns all they want, but that's not the point I'm making. The point is that objs spawning randomly means teams are always playing reactively, rather than proactively, which encourages teams to just blob everywhere, which further enables the awful CC-AoE burst spamming playstyle that contributes to FL's being the mess it currently is.

Merged? No, but I would absolutely support a Rival Wings roulette and feel that would incentivize more people to play it.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

No.
10char.

Seriously though, the required skillset for frontlines is to "be there" and "don't die".

Rival wings is completely different.

Sure, you might get more people playing rival wings if they get forced into it, but the quality of play from them... do you really want to try to swim with a 5 ton anchor chained to your neck?

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A few well coordinated people can dominate a FL, same with RW if enough randoms get put into it.