Personal thoughts about Fall Guys achievement

As the Fall Guys event&achievement is at the center of the forum/Reddit etc, i would take some time to explain imho what is the issue about this (kind of) achievement and what solution we could bring to improve the thing with a view to doing progress for everybody.

Firstly, i'm gonna use another achievement with the Fall Guys to explain what is the main issue to me, which is Hounding the Rock (from Seal Rock frontline map.)

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...t/6d02ecfa6f2/

My main issue with this achievement is that, while frontlines are supposed to be ruled by a team effort & cooperation, this achievement is actually doing the opposite. For example, if you're 5 trying to capture a point, it'll be 1 person who progress and 4 who can just cry, while they all contributed to the objective. Besides, neutralisations purely doesn't count while it's the same thing gameplay-related (You click, bar is filling, goal done, next.) So, in the end, it'll encourage toxic behaviour of people, trying to camp behind while they leave their team outnumbered. After, the achievement itself isn't bad as it's a way to push people to play the objective, which is the wanted effect. But i see 2 solutions to improve this :

1 : Make neutralisations count. Again, it's the same action as capturing and just doing this will double the progression
2 : As frontline is about team gameplay, make all the team capture/neutralisation count, because it'll encourage everybody to play objectives without having to think about achievement, leaving more space to focus on the map.

The idea is to make progression as smooth as possible, even if it implies to grind a little bit more.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...t/ce553fb4e9f/

Whatever grindy the Tank You achievement is, at least it has the merit of offering a guarantee on progression : you do a dungeon/raid for 5 to 20 minutes and you gain +1.

And that's the idea about Fall Guys achievement. Replacing (or reducing the number of wins to 10 like JACTAs) the achievement by "Participate to XXX Blundervilles" or "Win XXX rounds" would reward player effort while having fun because the pressure about winning wouldn't be such a priority. And if you win, it's a bonus. Also, as it's a collaboration, i think it's best to give player a good experience, thus all the idea about frustrating-reducing thought.

Finally, i would point that usually, SE manages to create very friendly events, more based on having a good time than losing your mind grinding achievements. Even stuff like GARO didn't give me the impression of being a bad moment (aside PVP normal frustration which is normal.)

I know SE won't be able to do anything right now but i sincerly hope they'll learn lessons from this experience while preparing the next iteration. Aside of all its issue, Fall Guys is very fun and it shouldn't discourage them to keep going if they manage to understand what's right and what's wrong.

Feel free to give your opinion, my post isn't about changing minds & stuff but more about bringing some constructive reflection for the sake and the future of FF14's next collaborative events.

Take care <3

It's not meant to be a contribution to an objective, though, it is essentially PvP. Just like Chocobo Racing, Verminion and Triple Triad have PvP.

The achievement is pretty frustrating. I've only won twice despite being to Round 3 nearly every single time I play (probably around 100 matches rn). My ping just is slightly worse than other people and I get destroyed by exaflares specifically despite being far past them. Wins are largely RNG for medium to high ping players to whether or not you get hit by an AoE that is off your screen behind you and/or if your opponents have worse/equal ping to you.

That being said, I don't think it should be participation. It's PvP and should be treated as such. It should absolutely be lowered from 100 though. Even halving it to 50 would be grind enough.

Yeah, but the point is about achievement progression and how a flawed game design can ruin the fun/make the farm difficult, thus this Seal Rock example. I sincerly think people wouldn't complain as much if there wasn't any reason to win. Also, CR, Verminion & TT does have a different win ratio, respectively of 1/8 and 1/2, better than 1/24.

That's why i prefer Onsal Hakair over Seal Rock, it's because they didn't include any goal, just participating/winning on this map. And it's more than enough to enjoy PVP & Frontlines.

You are 100% on point. I know SE likes to reward participation via grinding, but 100 wins is way too much, hell 10 is way too much for a game that has severe netcode issues and is super frustrating. I'll never play enough of this to do that. I got my 1 win and I'm good. I have about 4-5 more runs to get the minion and music scroll and then I won't be going in again.

If it was Qualify in 100 rounds I would probably take the time to do it, but win 100 times? Nah, that isn't a fun goal to have set.

Making things prohibitive for people doesn't make a successful event, it makes an event where people put in bare minimum effort and an empty event once everyone gets the rewards. You have to make goals attainable for people to want to try.

All of that aside though, it is super cute and a very nice fresh breath in the game. The gear is cute and different. I'm enjoying seeing the unique combinations people are doing in their glams. I'm looking forward to the next fun event with changes based on what they've learned here.

I don't think this achievement was meant for the majority of the playerbase, but rather to keep the less-casual crowd more interested in grinding something out. The rewards in the shop do not take many games to get all of the rewards, especially if you get through multiple rounds per game, so that is the "always progression" that the entire playerbase has in Fall Guys. Every little update doesn't need to be for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

The achievement is pretty frustrating. I've only won twice despite being to Round 3 nearly every single time I play (probably around 100 matches rn). My ping just is slightly worse than other people and I get destroyed by exaflares specifically despite being far past them. Wins are largely RNG for medium to high ping players to whether or not you get hit by an AoE that is off your screen behind you and/or if your opponents have worse/equal ping to you.

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Yes, I've been to Round 3 many times as well and got affected by ping a lot. Even on my best runs someone wins. One time I was within half a second of beating someone. But I figure eventually I will if I keep doing it.

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Originally Posted by AesirSyn

You are 100% on point. I know SE likes to reward participation via grinding, but 100 wins is way too much

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Nothing new though. Most of the achievements in the game are unreasonable like this. It's why I decided they weren't fun and to focus on mounts, minions and TT cards instead of achievements.

If the associated reward was a mount or gear or an emote or something, I would probably be critical of this achievement. However, the reward is just a title that lets everyone know you did the thing. And what's the thing? Getting 100 wins. It's there for people who are super hardcore for this event, and if that's not you, that's fine.

There are plenty of titles in the game that I will never get because they require doing an amount of something that I don't want to do. And that's fine. Different strokes for different folks. I hope the people who enjoy doing those things more than I do enjoy their titles, just as I'll enjoy seeing them with their titles.

My earnest advice: if the prospect of getting 100 wins for this title fills you with negative feelings, don't chase it. This is not a thing you need. Accept that you're not going to get it and move on. And then when you see someone with the title Queen Bean, you can think to yourself, "Wow, that player was really hardcore for Fall Guys!"

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Originally Posted by Ryotsune

Yeah, but the point is about achievement progression and how a flawed game design can ruin the fun/make the farm difficult, thus this Seal Rock example. I sincerly think people wouldn't complain as much if there wasn't any reason to win. Also, CR, Verminion & TT does have a different win ratio, respectively of 1/8 and 1/2, better than 1/24.

That's why i prefer Onsal Hakair over Seal Rock, it's because they didn't include any goal, just participating/winning on this map. And it's more than enough to enjoy PVP & Frontlines.

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I'm confused over this statement. Just like Seal Rock, there is achievements and rewards you can only get through winning in Onsal.
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Construct_VII_(Mount)

It is entirely possible to win and work on this achievement even if the netcode sucks. I won twice in the one session I've played.
The event is here for months. You don't need <Queen Bean> right this very second, just like you don't need the Seal Rock coat or Onsal mount right this very second.
Long term goals are good and keep the mode alive. 100 Participation rounds would have been achieved by pretty much everyone at this point except those who are exceptionally bad. You would only need 50 matches if you qualified the first two rounds, which would take less than 4 hours. That's terrible to keep the mode alive.

For example, I would have no reason to go back since I would already have all rewards and the title after 1 night of playing.

Sorry for the confusion. The point is, having a map where you don't have to think about anything than play and potentially win is more healthy imo.

And even if you have achievement like this former frontline map with drones, killing drones is counted for everybody participating to the assault. That's the difference between Onsal & Seal Rock.

Also, i agree about the participation thing but it's still an event. And as i said, SE is used to propose event with short-term investment. After, you're free to keep playing freely or not, depending of your time. The thing you enjoy the most is the ones you don't have to think about it because you're focused on having a good time, even if you don't win

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

If the associated reward was a mount or gear or an emote or something, I would probably be critical of this achievement. However, the reward is just a title that lets everyone know you did the thing. And what's the thing? Getting 100 wins. It's there for people who are super hardcore for this event, and if that's not you, that's fine.

There are plenty of titles in the game that I will never get because they require doing an amount of something that I don't want to do. And that's fine. Different strokes for different folks. I hope the people who enjoy doing those things more than I do enjoy their titles, just as I'll enjoy seeing them with their titles.

My earnest advice: if the prospect of getting 100 wins for this title fills you with negative feelings, don't chase it. This is not a thing you need. Accept that you're not going to get it and move on. And then when you see someone with the title Queen Bean, you can think to yourself, "Wow, that player was really hardcore for Fall Guys!"

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This is the correct take.

The 100 wins achievement is meant to be farmed over a long period of time, similar to the 1000 S Rank kills hunt achievement. You can work toward both casually or no life grind them, but if you choose the latter and are miserable you only have yourself to blame.

I don't know how much I like putting the blame with SE for people being unable to enjoy an event just because there's a hard or grindy achievement linked to it.
I have thoroughly enjoyed the event. I started winning a lot and was one of the very first people with King/Queen Bean. And now I still play it because I enjoy the content so much.
So, how much is it truly SE that should have done things different with the achievement and not the people that can't see the trees in the forest anymore.

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Originally Posted by Dillon0_o

IMO 50 wins for this would already be an insane achievement, but they went with 100...what were they thinking?

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10, 20, 50, 100, 1000
People who are bad at it won't get it. I think we can agree on that.

On the other hand, with 100 wins achievement.
People who are good at it can get it fairly quickly.
People who are decent will take more time, but will get it in due time.
The event is available for 2 months and will return.
So I don't see an issue with it being 100 wins.

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Originally Posted by Dillon0_o

agree to disagree

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I'm trying to explain what they were thinking.
Or at least what I think they were thinking.
If you want to disagree, feel free to take a shot at what they were thinking instead. XD

It is indeed what I think they were thinking. As I said. :)
I just thought I'd give my thoughts as someone who got the title really quickly.
And I got it quickly because I just enjoy the content a lot and played it a lot.
Am now still playing it because I like it so much.
But if you'd rather just yell into the void, Ill leave you be.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

It is entirely possible to win and work on this achievement even if the netcode sucks. I won twice in the one session I've played.
The event is here for months. You don't need <Queen Bean> right this very second, just like you don't need the Seal Rock coat or Onsal mount right this very second.
Long term goals are good and keep the mode alive. 100 Participation rounds would have been achieved by pretty much everyone at this point except those who are exceptionally bad. You would only need 50 matches if you qualified the first two rounds, which would take less than 4 hours. That's terrible to keep the mode alive.

For example, I would have no reason to go back since I would already have all rewards and the title after 1 night of playing.

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The problem with the Fall Guys event is that it gets faster and faster with practice. Many are cheating now too with speed hacks and mods that show the hit box of every explosion, leaving no chance to the honest player, even moreso if that player wasn’t there on day 1 when people were learning the courses. Pretty sure, if not already done, that there will be bots running the entire course very soon. There’s also several trolls around that just stand near the finish line and wait till the last second to cross it.

The event is completely broken due to that stupid achievement tied to a temporary event that will come back on an occasional basis only. It doesn’t event remotely compare to Seal Rock (and it still counts if you channel the tomelith long enough, even if you were not exactly the first to hit it).

Edit: it would have been better to reward participation or have an achievement of “complete the course x times under the time of x”. That way you run against a clock and not cheaters.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

The problem with the Fall Guys event is that it gets faster and faster with practice. Many are cheating now too with speed hacks and mods that show the hit box of every explosion, leaving no chance to the honest player, even moreso if that player wasn’t there on day 1 when people were learning the courses.

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While I agree that it's harder, you can still learn and get on mostly equal footing with honest players fairly quickly.
I don't know how many people are cheating. I don't know if I've encountered any myself.
Despite it all, I'm still frequently winning games. So those with the skills can do it for sure.

SE needs to do a better job with achievement balancing in general, but especially the achievements that are limited time only.

My suggestion for the future if they add events like this (though they won't see this probably):
- Reduce the number of required wins to around 10-15
- Add an achievement that's "Participate in Event 100 times" or however many times SE wants us to on average to participate

My reasoning: by requiring 100 wins, people like me who will grind it out will get really sweaty with it and start mapping out routes to get to the end, giving people who are playing more casually and reactively a very difficult path to win, which I can see being frustrating for more casual players. This is supposed to be a fun kind of casual event and unfortunately with the way it is structured it really just kind of makes the last stage unfun for the vast majority. Reducing the number of required wins, it will make some of those who are actually mapping out routes, not do that, at least I wouldn't be, I would personally be a lot more casual with it.
Since they would be reducing the win amount quite a bit, they would counteract it with a participation number achievement. Still make those people who would be grinding the 100 wins needing to grind out something and keep the queues populated.

I realize they won't change the fall guys event achievement, but maybe if they add more events and achievements in the future, they would maybe consider something like this.

Is it really timed if it will return? I guess it kind of is and isn't at the same time.

As for mapping routes. A good basic understanding of each section will get you just as far and is far less effort than mapping the whole level from the start.
That's how I've been winning matches day 1 and still do. While that is not fully in reach for everyone, it is perhaps not quite as sweaty as you make it out to be. (Still a little sweaty though)

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

There’s also several trolls around that just stand near the finish line and wait till the last second to cross it.

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Just to offer some insight into this, I usually queue for this event with friends who are much worse than me at the Fall Guys event. If they don't make it to the goal, then I don't want to go on to the next round without them, so I won't go through until they get to the end and we can all go together. I hope that most of what you're seeing is this kind of thing and not explicit attempts to troll!

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

Just to offer some insight into this, I usually queue for this event with friends who are much worse than me at the Fall Guys event. If they don't make it to the goal, then I don't want to go on to the next round without them, so I won't go through until they get to the end and we can all go together. I hope that most of what you're seeing is this kind of thing and not explicit attempts to troll!

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Most of the people that we see waiting are like this, but there is also a minority that is the other kind. They wait at the end when there's 1 spot left waiting for people to get there and then quickly claim the last spot. :(

Can't be having any grind that requires effort in this game. Please, only instant gratification and bare minimum button pushing or I'll be forced to abuse match-making and use dirty 3pt cause people need to know I'm the most regal Bean to ever live.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

-snip-

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I know and it can be frustrating like I said on page one. But they've never taken achievements or rewards out of anything because of people cheating. They don't take out other PvP achievements despite PvP botters being everywhere. Feast/CC achievements and rewards which are also temporary are not taken out despite being riddled with questionable practices. Garo is a 'temporary' event that requires wins for one of the mounts, but they've never altered it. I'm not going to sit here and say it's the best. I've already said they should reduce the amount of wins... but participation points are not the point of PvP games.

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Originally Posted by RyveSontek

10, 20, 50, 100, 1000
People who are bad at it won't get it. I think we can agree on that.

On the other hand, with 100 wins achievement.
People who are good at it can get it fairly quickly.
People who are decent will take more time, but will get it in due time.
The event is available for 2 months and will return.
So I don't see an issue with it being 100 wins.

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The issue I see with it is this is the way they do all their achievements basically and it's just boring and lazy. Do x amount of this task over and over. I would be much happier with x10 over x100, but it would still be a boring and lazy implementation of the achievement. They could have implemented achievements based on speedrunning, no obstacles hit, using a hammer or other obstacle to phase you through typhoon's breath on map 2, or having to do each path color railing path and still qualify. I mean just something different than the same thing for everything. I just think their current implementation of achievements doesn't give you the satisfaction that achievements should give you. Like I find it hard to believe that people are excited to do 100 wins of this event. There are 2 maps for stage 1, 2 maps for stage 2, and 1 for stage 3. It's not a lot of variety and if you understand the final map what is the point of doing it 100 times? It turns something that should be fun into thank god that I am done with it so I don't have to do this shit anymore. I get this is just my opinion and some may disagree but all these kinds of achievements just make me want to quit playing and go play something else and I think that is a problem.

you have agency over those tho, you can effect other players in one way or another, this is just 100% RNG if both you and 1 other player plays perfectly

The achievement's a complete joke. I got it the first time the event was released.

I won once because of a bug in the event and was legit alone in it haha but I do think it should have been better then the scripted mess it is

sence the first time the had the event and the dumpster fire that ensued i have had nothing to do with it not being worth my time to play with all the cheating going on and will not touch this until they fix it.