Personal thoughts about Fall Guys achievement

[Ryotsune]

As the Fall Guys event&achievement is at the center of the forum/Reddit etc, i would take some time to explain imho what is the issue about this (kind of) achievement and what solution we could bring to improve the thing with a view to doing progress for everybody.

Firstly, i'm gonna use another achievement with the Fall Guys to explain what is the main issue to me, which is Hounding the Rock (from Seal Rock frontline map.)

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...t/6d02ecfa6f2/

My main issue with this achievement is that, while frontlines are supposed to be ruled by a team effort & cooperation, this achievement is actually doing the opposite. For example, if you're 5 trying to capture a point, it'll be 1 person who progress and 4 who can just cry, while they all contributed to the objective. Besides, neutralisations purely doesn't count while it's the same thing gameplay-related (You click, bar is filling, goal done, next.) So, in the end, it'll encourage toxic behaviour of people, trying to camp behind while they leave their team outnumbered. After, the achievement itself isn't bad as it's a way to push people to play the objective, which is the wanted effect. But i see 2 solutions to improve this :

1 : Make neutralisations count. Again, it's the same action as capturing and just doing this will double the progression
2 : As frontline is about team gameplay, make all the team capture/neutralisation count, because it'll encourage everybody to play objectives without having to think about achievement, leaving more space to focus on the map.

The idea is to make progression as smooth as possible, even if it implies to grind a little bit more.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...t/ce553fb4e9f/

Whatever grindy the Tank You achievement is, at least it has the merit of offering a guarantee on progression : you do a dungeon/raid for 5 to 20 minutes and you gain +1.

And that's the idea about Fall Guys achievement. Replacing (or reducing the number of wins to 10 like JACTAs) the achievement by "Participate to XXX Blundervilles" or "Win XXX rounds" would reward player effort while having fun because the pressure about winning wouldn't be such a priority. And if you win, it's a bonus. Also, as it's a collaboration, i think it's best to give player a good experience, thus all the idea about frustrating-reducing thought.

[Ryotsune]

Finally, i would point that usually, SE manages to create very friendly events, more based on having a good time than losing your mind grinding achievements. Even stuff like GARO didn't give me the impression of being a bad moment (aside PVP normal frustration which is normal.)

I know SE won't be able to do anything right now but i sincerly hope they'll learn lessons from this experience while preparing the next iteration. Aside of all its issue, Fall Guys is very fun and it shouldn't discourage them to keep going if they manage to understand what's right and what's wrong.

Feel free to give your opinion, my post isn't about changing minds & stuff but more about bringing some constructive reflection for the sake and the future of FF14's next collaborative events.

Take care <3

[Jeeqbit]

It's not meant to be a contribution to an objective, though, it is essentially PvP. Just like Chocobo Racing, Verminion and Triple Triad have PvP.

[Ryotsune]

Yeah, but the point is about achievement progression and how a flawed game design can ruin the fun/make the farm difficult, thus this Seal Rock example. I sincerly think people wouldn't complain as much if there wasn't any reason to win. Also, CR, Verminion & TT does have a different win ratio, respectively of 1/8 and 1/2, better than 1/24.

That's why i prefer Onsal Hakair over Seal Rock, it's because they didn't include any goal, just participating/winning on this map. And it's more than enough to enjoy PVP & Frontlines.

[Tsumdere]

Yeah, but the point is about achievement progression and how a flawed game design can ruin the fun/make the farm difficult, thus this Seal Rock example. I sincerly think people wouldn't complain as much if there wasn't any reason to win. Also, CR, Verminion & TT does have a different win ratio, respectively of 1/8 and 1/2, better than 1/24.

That's why i prefer Onsal Hakair over Seal Rock, it's because they didn't include any goal, just participating/winning on this map. And it's more than enough to enjoy PVP & Frontlines.

I'm confused over this statement. Just like Seal Rock, there is achievements and rewards you can only get through winning in Onsal.
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Construct_VII_(Mount)

It is entirely possible to win and work on this achievement even if the netcode sucks. I won twice in the one session I've played.
The event is here for months. You don't need <Queen Bean> right this very second, just like you don't need the Seal Rock coat or Onsal mount right this very second.
Long term goals are good and keep the mode alive. 100 Participation rounds would have been achieved by pretty much everyone at this point except those who are exceptionally bad. You would only need 50 matches if you qualified the first two rounds, which would take less than 4 hours. That's terrible to keep the mode alive.

For example, I would have no reason to go back since I would already have all rewards and the title after 1 night of playing.

[Ryotsune]

Sorry for the confusion. The point is, having a map where you don't have to think about anything than play and potentially win is more healthy imo.

And even if you have achievement like this former frontline map with drones, killing drones is counted for everybody participating to the assault. That's the difference between Onsal & Seal Rock.

Also, i agree about the participation thing but it's still an event. And as i said, SE is used to propose event with short-term investment. After, you're free to keep playing freely or not, depending of your time. The thing you enjoy the most is the ones you don't have to think about it because you're focused on having a good time, even if you don't win

[RyveSontek]

IMO 50 wins for this would already be an insane achievement, but they went with 100...what were they thinking?

10, 20, 50, 100, 1000
People who are bad at it won't get it. I think we can agree on that.

On the other hand, with 100 wins achievement.
People who are good at it can get it fairly quickly.
People who are decent will take more time, but will get it in due time.
The event is available for 2 months and will return.
So I don't see an issue with it being 100 wins.

[Toutatis]

It is entirely possible to win and work on this achievement even if the netcode sucks. I won twice in the one session I've played.
The event is here for months. You don't need <Queen Bean> right this very second, just like you don't need the Seal Rock coat or Onsal mount right this very second.
Long term goals are good and keep the mode alive. 100 Participation rounds would have been achieved by pretty much everyone at this point except those who are exceptionally bad. You would only need 50 matches if you qualified the first two rounds, which would take less than 4 hours. That's terrible to keep the mode alive.

For example, I would have no reason to go back since I would already have all rewards and the title after 1 night of playing.

The problem with the Fall Guys event is that it gets faster and faster with practice. Many are cheating now too with speed hacks and mods that show the hit box of every explosion, leaving no chance to the honest player, even moreso if that player wasn’t there on day 1 when people were learning the courses. Pretty sure, if not already done, that there will be bots running the entire course very soon. There’s also several trolls around that just stand near the finish line and wait till the last second to cross it.

The event is completely broken due to that stupid achievement tied to a temporary event that will come back on an occasional basis only. It doesn’t event remotely compare to Seal Rock (and it still counts if you channel the tomelith long enough, even if you were not exactly the first to hit it).

Edit: it would have been better to reward participation or have an achievement of “complete the course x times under the time of x”. That way you run against a clock and not cheaters.